NVE/Dampier to Dallas...Screw Portland - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 05:11 PM

DALM ...since when does NVE+Dampier not work for Wallace? You mean Portland would need more? Or is this a cap issue?

dalmations202 · 02-05-2004, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
DALM ...since when does NVE+Dampier not work for Wallace? You mean Portland would need more? Or is this a cap issue?

According to realgm cap issue.
By talent I would agree, but by realgm..it wouldn't.

Speedy · 02-05-2004, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
DALM ...since when does NVE+Dampier not work for Wallace? You mean Portland would need more? Or is this a cap issue?

According to realgm cap issue.
By talent I would agree, but by realgm..it wouldn't.

I believe if Dallas sent it's trade exception to GS in that deal it would work. Is that legal, or does a team have to use a trade exception by itself?

akaarod03 · 02-05-2004, 05:53 PM

Everyone is concerned about Dampier...if he's legit or not...if he's just playing well to get a new contract. My thing is this...is Dampier better than the Bradley/Williams/Fortson combo? Yes. Is he better than Lafrentz? Yes. Likewise about NVE...his knees are definitely a concern. But a 75% NVE is way better than Travis "used to be good but is now a spare" Best.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 05:46 PM

DALM, SPEEDY .... I think realGM just messed up.

If the numbers at HoopsHype are accurate (and typically they are), then only Dallas would be getting back more salary than it sends. Both Portland (Wallace for Walker-Delk) and GS (NVE-Dampier for Wallace-Best) get back less salary than they trade away.

Dallas trades away Wallace - Delk - Best = 17.35M total ..... gets NVE - Dampier = 18.76M total. That is easily within the 15% cushion. So no trade exception or changes would be needed.

I think realGM just screwed up. I have found that happens at times with their software, so I just check the numbers myself rather than use them.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 06:01 PM

AKAA ...yes they would both be an upgrade. But if you are trading away Walker, that is likely THE TRADE CHIP that you have available to upgrade at C. Thus the question becomes "is what we will get with Dampier the most that we can get for Walker?" If Dampier reverts back to form, then we get screwed badly out of a shot to get someone feasible. If Dampier remains very good, then it is a wise use of Walker. But how can you know?

And you dont have time with Dampier to wait-n-see ...this summer he will opt out, and you will have to plop about 80M in his lap and commit to him long-term, if you think he is the answer. You dont want to trade Walker and then end up with zero, so if you trade for Dampier you are basically committed in a HUGE way.

uberfan · 02-05-2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
AKAA ...yes they would both be an upgrade. But if you are trading away Walker, that is likely THE TRADE CHIP that you have available to upgrade at C. Thus the question becomes "is what we will get with Dampier the most that we can get for Walker?" If Dampier reverts back to form, then we get screwed badly out of a shot to get someone feasible. If Dampier remains very good, then it is a wise use of Walker. But how can you know?

And you dont have time with Dampier to wait-n-see ...this summer he will opt out, and you will have to plop about 80M in his lap and commit to him long-term, if you think he is the answer. You dont want to trade Walker and then end up with zero, so if you trade for Dampier you are basically committed in a HUGE way.

PE: I think you are correct that Walker is our most likely trade chip for a center. What is not likely is that you would be able to trade for Shaq or Duncan. Now I am not advocating this trade idea, but---

Even if Dampier reverts back to prior years he is still an upgrade a center for the Mavs. Who else is available and is considerably better than Dampier even at his prior two year performance level? I don't see a whole lot of people in that category. So, the question should be is there anyone pure center who is available that is worth using the Walker chip on?

Speedy · 02-05-2004, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
AKAA ...yes they would both be an upgrade. But if you are trading away Walker, that is likely THE TRADE CHIP that you have available to upgrade at C. Thus the question becomes "is what we will get with Dampier the most that we can get for Walker?" If Dampier reverts back to form, then we get screwed badly out of a shot to get someone feasible. If Dampier remains very good, then it is a wise use of Walker. But how can you know?

And you dont have time with Dampier to wait-n-see ...this summer he will opt out, and you will have to plop about 80M in his lap and commit to him long-term, if you think he is the answer. You dont want to trade Walker and then end up with zero, so if you trade for Dampier you are basically committed in a HUGE way.

PE, good points on Dampier. If the trade was made, Dallas may be looking at a situation similar to Raef's. Only this time our future starting center would be about 3 years older at the beginning of his contract. On the topic of Walker's value, It's very difficult to judge his trade value since teams constantly change the direction they want to go in as the season progresses, such as Phoenix. However, we know what AW's value was when we acquired him, and at the time that was the best deal Boston could get.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 06:06 PM

It looks like realGM has NVE's salary this year at almost 12M, while HoopsHype has him at a bit under 11. That is the problem.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 07:42 PM

UBERFAN ... I dont know how good Dampier is, but no doubt the Mavs have the ability to scout him in detail. The fact that he will cost a HUGE commitment, right up front, without a chance to make sure of what you have, is the part that would make me hesitate the most.

As to "what better choices do you have" - there are several ways to go that might be just as good or better, especially if the Mavs scouts are not certain how good Dampier will play.

On the trade front - Out of the young options, Chicago has publically stated that EVERYONE there is available, which means Curry and Chandler are possible targets. Kwame Brown in Wash is also said to be available. There are the usual older vet types, of course, as a fallback.

On the free agent front, Ostertag appears to be the most promising option this summer. Names like Rebraca, Divacs, KThomas, Camby, and several others might also fit.

If I was trading for a C solution, my prime target would be Chi. They no doubt would LOVE to get rid of vet ADavis, who has a monstrously bloated contract, so perhaps an offer that includes Davis plus Curry (or Chandler) for a pair like Walker and Delk would work. Then the Mavs would have the vet for now, plus the kid to work with, in exchange for THE TRADE CHIP. If either trade were doable, I would prefer that one over the Dampier trade.

uberfan · 02-05-2004, 08:26 PM

PE: I had to leave before I made all my points earlier so I problably should not have posted anything.

My preference is to wait until the offseason and especially until the expansion draft to see what all shakes out. I am satisfied to finish this season with the current roster barring any serious injuries. Ideally, it would be nice to bring along a young center and work him into the mix a little bit at a time. I just keep thinking there are only so many we can protect in the expansion draft and don't want to get caught up in a numbers game trying to develop a young guy and then risk having to expose him to draft.

Now is the time for patience, I think, and wait until the summer.

akaarod03 · 02-05-2004, 09:43 PM

Poindexter: "Thus the question becomes "is what we will get with Dampier the most that we can get for Walker?""

Honestly...what do you think we can get for Walker? There's talk about Ratliff...but give me Dampier. What big man will all of a sudden become available? I can't think of any off the top of my head. Now I know Ostertag may come to Dallas in the summer...which is terrific...but we're trying to win a championship...and I think adding Dampier and NVE for essentially Walker can help us get there. Again...a rotation of Nash, Finley, Howard, Nowitski, Dampier, NVE, Jamison, Bradley, Williams, Najera, Fortson...pretty damn good.

bernardos70 · 02-05-2004, 07:47 PM

Just a quick side-point (probably completely off-topic, but w/e): Travis best came here, accepted a not-so-great contract for himself, 1 year, vet. minimum, cause he wanted to play in Dallas and wanted to have another shot at a title... hardly ever do I see a trade where Best's name isn't thrown out there. NVE is great but the injuries this year make me doubt his durability from now on. Travis Best has been playing pretty well lately, nothing spectacular but night in night out, he'll give you some solid minutes. So finally we get a free agent that wants to sign with us, and we trade him the first chance we have? That would really give some credit to the rumor of free-agents not wanting to sign with Dallas because they're afraid of being traded. Anyway, the trade-talk may resume now.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 07:58 PM

SPEEDY ...you said "we know what AW's value was when we acquired him, and at the time that was the best deal Boston could get."

I dont see a lot so far that impresses me, with Ainge's GM and deal-making results. So I am not persuaded that Boston got the BEST deal for Walker - rather, I am more inclined to think that this was the best AINGE could get for him. Ainge trashed him, slammed him as a player, then tried to find someone to make a good offer for him - sorry, but "deal making" in the NBA is the same as any other biz: salesmanship matters. Everyone knew that Ainge wanted badly to ditch Walker, at any reasonable price, and they had to think: apparently he knows something bad that I dont know.

Contrast that salesmanship with the salesmanship when Cuban peddled Juwan Howard to Denver or when NVE was sent to GS - the other team grabbed a "key Mavs player" in each case, rather than someone who was seen as trade bait.

And even at that, Boston got a fairly strong package for Walker, on the face of it. They got Welsch, whom they wanted a lot. They got Raef, who many figured would (and still might) be a top-tier C in the East (with his shooting, shot blocking, and finesse for a C) and who is still fairly young. They got rid of Delk's contract. They got Mills as a big cap-reducer. And they got a #1.

With Cuban's salesmanship, plus the fact that Walker this year is slimmed down, more athletic, and has exhibted greater teamwork, it is very logical to think the Mavs could get a good return for him if they chose to trade him.

Speedy · 02-09-2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
SPEEDY ...you said "we know what AW's value was when we acquired him, and at the time that was the best deal Boston could get."

I dont see a lot so far that impresses me, with Ainge's GM and deal-making results. So I am not persuaded that Boston got the BEST deal for Walker - rather, I am more inclined to think that this was the best AINGE could get for him. Ainge trashed him, slammed him as a player, then tried to find someone to make a good offer for him - sorry, but "deal making" in the NBA is the same as any other biz: salesmanship matters. Everyone knew that Ainge wanted badly to ditch Walker, at any reasonable price, and they had to think: apparently he knows something bad that I dont know.

Contrast that salesmanship with the salesmanship when Cuban peddled Juwan Howard to Denver or when NVE was sent to GS - the other team grabbed a "key Mavs player" in each case, rather than someone who was seen as trade bait.

And even at that, Boston got a fairly strong package for Walker, on the face of it. They got Welsch, whom they wanted a lot. They got Raef, who many figured would (and still might) be a top-tier C in the East (with his shooting, shot blocking, and finesse for a C) and who is still fairly young. They got rid of Delk's contract. They got Mills as a big cap-reducer. And they got a #1.

With Cuban's salesmanship, plus the fact that Walker this year is slimmed down, more athletic, and has exhibted greater teamwork, it is very logical to think the Mavs could get a good return for him if they chose to trade him.

PE, I agree with you about Ainge's incompetence as a GM. But since he is the GM for Boston, I still believe that is the best deal Boston could get at the time. Walker was being shopped, so I would have to assume that other teams weren't offering a better package than Dallas. You said other teams may have thought "what does Ainge know about Walker that I don't". What changes their mind if Dallas offers him in a trade a few months after they get him?

You said Boston got a "fairly strong" package for Walker. I don't agree with that. Could they have done worse? Sure. But I think you would have to agree that this was a very lopsided trade in favor of Dallas, contract and talent wise.

On the marketing factor, agree 100%. If anyone can get top value out of a player its Cuban. I just think Ainge really hurt AW's value by trading him for less than what he was worth. I mean to say, I would find it hard to believe that a team would offer more for AW than what they could have had him for in October. Hope I'm wrong.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 08:01 PM

BERNARDOS .... I would trade Best, if NVE was coming back as a backup PG. Otherwise, I'm with you. But if the trade brings someone who will keep Best from playing, it seems to make sense to have him traded.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 09:53 PM

AKAA ..."Honestly...what do you think we can get for Walker?"

Read my post marked at 6:42 pm, where I already answered this exact question with all the options in detail. My personal choice would be Davis-Curry (or Davis-Chandler) if doable.

By summertime, there will be quite a few options, and many are apparently in play already. I am not opposed to playing the season as is, with Williams filling the gaps, and see how far it can go with the talent depth onboard.

Additionally, continuity counts for more than raw talent, at this point of the season - if you trade for Dampier RIGHT NOW, you probably dont get as far this year. So unless there is a HUGE upgrade trade that you just cant walk away from, I would prefer to wait til summer.

akaarod03 · 02-05-2004, 10:14 PM

Poindexter: Davis/Curry or Davis/Chandler for Walker and filler? Sure where do I sign? The question is does Chicago do it? I think Dallas does it...just for the simple fact that Davis still has a little something left in his tank and Curry or Chandler has the potential to be stars...by the way...I would prefer Curry...I'm worried about Chandler's back.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 09:59 PM

UBER ...expansion draft has interesting ramifications on a trade, no question about it .... the opt-out factors with Walker and Nash, and the free agent status of Daniels, make for some interesting scenarios that could play out. The big money contracts that the Mavs have also might make for some interesting gamesmanship - would the Mavs essentially "dare" Charlotte to take a big contract player by exposing someone with talent but also with a huge contract? Should prove interesting.

uberfan · 02-06-2004, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
UBER ...expansion draft has interesting ramifications on a trade, no question about it .... the opt-out factors with Walker and Nash, and the free agent status of Daniels, make for some interesting scenarios that could play out. The big money contracts that the Mavs have also might make for some interesting gamesmanship - would the Mavs essentially "dare" Charlotte to take a big contract player by exposing someone with talent but also with a huge contract? Should prove interesting.

Personally, I think they will expose Finley because I do not think Charlotte will take him. I would be very celar to Fin that I did not want to lose him and we were doing this to protect someone else. I think Fin and his agent would be smart enough to realize Charlotte would not take him, UNLESS another team got in the mix and offered a deal if Charlotte took Fin for them. Still, highly unlikely.

Exposing Jamison or Walker may be too tempting for Charlotte to pass on. Surely, TAW would be exposed to the draft.

akaarod03 · 02-06-2004, 04:00 PM

This is the latest from the Bay area...sports radio station in Golden State:

NVE and Dampier

for

Walker, Bradley, and Best

Let's analyze this...we give up Bradley. Why would GS want Bradley? Well because he's relatively cheap and still somewhat effective center. Currently, they have Damp and Foyle. With Damp potentially coming to Dallas and Foyle possibly leaving GS in the summer...Foyle is an unrestricted free agent...GS doesnt have a center on their roster. With Walker as opposed to say Rasheed Wallace...it allows the Warriors to see if he would be a fit for their team. If not...they say goodbye to Walker and get15-16 million off the books. We've addressed ad nauseum about the benefit of NVE and Dampier. Would you go to war with Dampier/Williams/Fortson? I would.

LRB · 02-06-2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

This is the latest from the Bay area...sports radio station in Golden State:

NVE and Dampier

for

Walker, Bradley, and Best

No way would I do this deal. Dampier is only really attractive if we can pair him with Bradley. This deal just isn't worth it. I'd rather keep Bradley and add Tag in FA.

Blonde Bomber · 02-06-2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

This is the latest from the Bay area...sports radio station in Golden State:

NVE and Dampier

for

Walker, Bradley, and Best

No way would I do this deal. Dampier is only really attractive if we can pair him with Bradley. This deal just isn't worth it. I'd rather keep Bradley and add Tag in FA.

But wouldn't you rather have Dampier and then add Tag with him?

Dampier + Tag = LOTS OF BEEF

dude1394 · 02-06-2004, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: akaarod03
This is the latest from the Bay area...sports radio station in Golden State:

NVE and Dampier

for

Walker, Bradley, and Best

Let's analyze this...we give up Bradley. Why would GS want Bradley? Well because he's relatively cheap and still somewhat effective center. Currently, they have Damp and Foyle. With Damp potentially coming to Dallas and Foyle possibly leaving GS in the summer...Foyle is an unrestricted free agent...GS doesnt have a center on their roster. With Walker as opposed to say Rasheed Wallace...it allows the Warriors to see if he would be a fit for their team. If not...they say goodbye to Walker and get15-16 million off the books. We've addressed ad nauseum about the benefit of NVE and Dampier. Would you go to war with Dampier/Williams/Fortson? I would.

WHERE DO I SIGN!!! Come on, come on, let's close the deal!!

MavsFanFinley · 02-06-2004, 11:24 PM

Notebook

This is taken from the DMN:

They already have been mentioned in connection with Golden State for center Erick Dampier and Van Exel.

That trade is laughable because the Mavericks cannot re-acquire Van Exel or any player during the same season that they have traded him away, per NBA rules.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-05-2004, 10:26 PM

AKAA ...Chicago is getting frustrated and is apparently ready to remake that team. Getting someone to take Davis' contract will be a major focus, and there wont be ANY takers unless they add in value. So maybe they give up Curry also to make the deal happen.

In return, they get back a player (Walker) who was a major force in getting the Celts to the playoffs with very little help. Pair him with Chandler and they might see that as a huge leap forward to being a playoff team. Adding Delk, who doesnt have a big contract and plays both G spots and both ends of the floor, might also give them the veteran flexibility to be able to move Crawford to another team for even another good piece - Crawford has good trade value but is on the outs there because he wont play D.

ddh33 · 02-06-2004, 12:34 AM

There's no denying that both Van Exel and Dampier have a lot of questions. I think they would be worth the risk however.

Nick has a role here - still. I think he would be an upgrade over Best and would spare Nash better than anyone we currently have.
Dampier is a big guy who has always had talent. I always thought that injuries held him back more than anything. That, and the fact that he played for the Warriors. I think a change of scenery would really help his career. He would be a beast here.

Walker is a big part of this team, and I'm one of his fans, but I think we would be getting the better end of this hypothetical deal. As good as Walker is, I would take two good players for him. I think it would balance our team much better. Jamison could move into the starting lineup, while Nick and Howard (for the time being) came in with instant offense and energy off the bench. I think that deal would clear a logjam and make us better.

Despite any questions, I think Dallas would be getting a huge upgrade.

dalmations202 · 02-06-2004, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ddh33
There's no denying that both Van Exel and Dampier have a lot of questions. I think they would be worth the risk however.

Nick has a role here - still. I think he would be an upgrade over Best and would spare Nash better than anyone we currently have.
Dampier is a big guy who has always had talent. I always thought that injuries held him back more than anything. That, and the fact that he played for the Warriors. I think a change of scenery would really help his career. He would be a beast here.

Walker is a big part of this team, and I'm one of his fans, but I think we would be getting the better end of this hypothetical deal. As good as Walker is, I would take two good players for him. I think it would balance our team much better. Jamison could move into the starting lineup, while Nick and Howard (for the time being) came in with instant offense and energy off the bench. I think that deal would clear a logjam and make us better.

Despite any questions, I think Dallas would be getting a huge upgrade.

I agree ddh... Anyone who loves BBall should love watching some of the things that Walker does. But, trading him for Damp and NVE resolve the weakest part of the Mavericks game at the present time. They need a Big C, one who can bang, rebound, and has a little O. Also they need an upgrade at backup PG. As far as Tag goes, why wouldn't you just drop Williams in the offseason, pick him up, and still use a 3-headed center rotation. I wouldn't mind seeing Damp, Tag, and Bradley in the C position - but I don't think other teams would like it much. I can see the game now, Dallas up by 20 and XXX coming back....Nellies inserts Bradley, Tag, Damp, Dirk, and Howard to run the point. That would be a BIG lineup. The Nellie goes small at the end of the game and puts in Nash, Van Exel, Fin, Jamison, Dirk. 5 Scorers to end games. 5 Big Defenders for the Zone. Matchups for other teams would be a nightmare.

kg_veteran · 02-06-2004, 10:11 AM

I haven't read this thread, but I thought I'd post this here (found it at LMF) rather than start a new thread. I scanned the last page and I don't think this has been pointed out...

Quote:

I just heard this on The Ticket. I don't know how true/false it is, but it would be a great move for the Mavs........

A. Walker for NVE & E. Dampier

The word is, Golden State wants to dump salary and aquiring Walker would make him opt out next year. Also, NVE is trying to force Golden State to move him by saying that he will retire if he doesn't end up playing in Texas by next year (Texas = Dallas). Dallas would get the big man they originally tried to get in the earlier trade in Dampier and the much needed umph in the middle. Dampier is averaging 12 points & 12 rebounds.

kg_veteran · 02-06-2004, 10:14 AM

Also, I'm sure this has been discussed in this thread, but you have to throw in more on the Dallas side to make the salaries work. For example, Delk and Najera would balance it out...

Dooby · 02-06-2004, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I haven't read this thread, but I thought I'd post this here (found it at LMF) rather than start a new thread. I scanned the last page and I don't think this has been pointed out...

Quote:

I just heard this on The Ticket. I don't know how true/false it is, but it would be a great move for the Mavs........

A. Walker for NVE & E. Dampier

The word is, Golden State wants to dump salary and aquiring Walker would make him opt out next year. Also, NVE is trying to force Golden State to move him by saying that he will retire if he doesn't end up playing in Texas by next year (Texas = Dallas). Dallas would get the big man they originally tried to get in the earlier trade in Dampier and the much needed umph in the middle. Dampier is averaging 12 points & 12 rebounds.

I heard this as well. I don't know where they were getting this story. I frankly thought they might be getting it from here. Their basic point was that the Mavs would be crazy not to do this deal. I agree. As much as I wanted NVE traded, I'd love to see him back here and I'd like to see Dampier here as well. Plus Walker's game still bugs me.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-06-2004, 02:20 PM

DALM ... you said "What piece is it going to take to put them over the top? IMO A big man with the ability to play post defense, rebound, and score trash points. Damp can do that. The next weakness on the team is backup point. Best slows down the Mavs too much. NVE would fill that role nicely. "

Your analysis of what the Mavs need is very good.

But it is VERY UNCERTAIN if Dampier and NVE provide that.

If you get the Dampier from the last 4 months, then yes you have the big man - but if you are getting the Dampier from the last 4 years, then you didnt get what you were needing.

If you get the electric NVE from last year, then you have the backup PG. But if you get the injured creaky NVE from this year, then you whiffed again.

Which Dampier and NVE would you be getting? Right now, you have a really nice surplus trade chip (WALKER) to use to upgrade at center. If you use that chip and whiff, you will be talking a huge step backwards in the longterm quest for a title.

LRB · 02-06-2004, 02:23 PM

Excellent points PE. I also fear that NVE would log significant minutes at SG which could hurt us tremendously defensivewise and rebounding wise. IMO that's a high price to pay for getting a good backup PG.

dalmations202 · 02-06-2004, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
DALM ... you said "What piece is it going to take to put them over the top? IMO A big man with the ability to play post defense, rebound, and score trash points. Damp can do that. The next weakness on the team is backup point. Best slows down the Mavs too much. NVE would fill that role nicely. "

Your analysis of what the Mavs need is very good.

But it is VERY UNCERTAIN if Dampier and NVE provide that.

If you get the Dampier from the last 4 months, then yes you have the big man - but if you are getting the Dampier from the last 4 years, then you didnt get what you were needing.

If you get the electric NVE from last year, then you have the backup PG. But if you get the injured creaky NVE from this year, then you whiffed again.

Which Dampier and NVE would you be getting? Right now, you have a really nice surplus trade chip (WALKER) to use to upgrade at center. If you use that chip and whiff, you will be talking a huge step backwards in the longterm quest for a title.

PE;
OK? Who are you going to use the chip on then. Shaq, Duncan, KG, J O'Neill, Yao are all off-limits (no way). The Davis's, Big Z, and the Seattle Bigs are not near Damp. Who is it that you are waiting to get? Curry? ? He has just as many detractors as Damp. He is big, and young and Chicago is talking about giving up on him (no way unless he is a spare). What other Center is out there that you could trade Walker for, to put a piece of the puzzle together. Personally I would like Bosh, but since the salaries aren't even close, no way you could do this. I do understand the "which" Damp and NVE. I just believe that the down side is still a better talent than what we have, in a place that we "need" it. Instead we have a large talent, that is not in the place that we need it.

If you keep Walker, and it doesn't work this year, you are still in the same boat next year - looking for a Big. No way to draft one in the first. Walker's contract expiring and needing to pay him now as well. If you trade him, you have a Big -maybe he doesn't opt out. You have a backup PG. You may win it all with or without the trade, but your shot at it goes way up for the next 4 years if you make the trade IMO.

As far as NVE, if I am trading Delk, and possibly even Najera for him, then is NVE's creakyness any larger than theirs?
Am I going to get the Damp from this year, or the Walker from the first half who can't shoot 3's or FT's? Asking who you are going to get is a good question any time.

I think that you still have chips regardless. I also think that Damp, NVE will help this team more than Walk, Delk. That is the bottom line.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-06-2004, 02:47 PM

From Dallasbasketball.com

DAMPIER TO THE MAVS?: And here we go again – another story that requires us to trace its roots while we play our heroic role as “SportsMedia WatchDog.’’
More trade rumors, but this time they are at least ones that sound fun for the home team. This time, the heart of the gossiped-about deal is Antoine Walker (plus a little bit more, for cap purposes) going to Golden State, and the Mavs getting back big man Erick Dampier plus playoff hero Nick Van Exel. This began to be reported as an active trade discussion by "The Musers" on The Ticket early Friday, and the merits and possibilities have continued to be expanded on by old pal and DB.com colleague Norm Hitzges.
Could The Musers have gotten their tip from the Newshound Norm? And doesn't Norm have some ties to Nellie? Logically, perhaps Nellie whispered a few tips to Norm about an impending major move. Doesn't Cuban regularly make big moves at the trade deadline?
Norm spent a lot of time discussing how Dampier would help the Mavs, and how Dallas would be the perfect place for Dampier to re-sign this summer after he opts out. Obviously, whispered Norm, Dampier and Van Exel are both pushing the Warriors for a trade to Dallas, and this is on the table and could happen.
And then Norm told us the source for this breaking news.
It came from a tip from Nellie, yes? Well, no.
Oh.
Well, then was there must have been an email or call from Cuban that leaked the impending news. That was it, yes? Ummmm, that wasn't it either.
Then who at the Mavs let the cat out of the bag on this huge story? Norm told us that the station got its tip from ESPN.COM!
ESPN.com? Wow, when I heard those words, I rushed to their site, to see what news I had missed. And there it was, in the ESPN insider section this week on trade possibilities in the NBA:
"Dallas Mavericks. Every year about this time, Mark Cuban and Don Nelson begin preaching the virtues of sticking with the roster they have. And just about every year around this time, the Mavs end up making a huge trade.
"The Mavericks need a tough big man, and everyone knows it. They tried to land Rasheed Wallace last month, but talks went nowhere. Attempts to land Zydrunas Ilgauskas also have fallen short. What they'd really love to have is the package Golden State is offering right now -- Nick Van Exel and Erick Dampier. Problem is, the Mavericks don't have any expiring contracts to give up unless ... Antoine Walker decides to opt out if traded to the Warriors."
From there, the article goes in other directions.
So the entire basis of this scoop is essentially ESPN's two-fold observation that the Mavs have pulled off deals at prior trade deadlines, plus the Mavs need a big man. And then Golden State 's RUMORED willingness to trade Van Exel and Dampier is tossed into the ESPN discussion, and voila the Mavs are in the middle of making a trade with the Warriors, according to a radio station.
Sheesh. ESPN tosses out a GUESS of something that could make some sense and then shoots it down. It was not a news report, there were no sources; it was only chit chat. And chit chat that the author himself shoots down! And then THAT turns into "the Mavs are in trade discussions" and more?
Gimme a break.
As we play our self-appointed role of “SportsMedia WatchDog," we're not necessarily ripping The Ticket here. Norm was honest in finally framing his source for the information as being another media outlet. We’re glad to have The Musers talking about the Mavs, in whatever context. We’re just saying that as you listen to The Ticket and others pick up on this "breaking story" (and again, you watch, this thing could really get legs now), keep in mind the eternal caveat when it comes to evaluating what you hear from the media: consider the source. - David Lord, 02/06/04, 12:15pm

Poindexter Einstein · 02-06-2004, 03:34 PM

DALM ...good questions.

You are ready to take "any Dampier we can get" - but I am reluctant. I just think there will be a better deal, if not now then in the summer. I am leery of the 80M commitment or so it will take to retain Dampier long term, after this season.

Specific other places I would look, hoping for a better deal. Ostertag as a FA. Rebraca. Maybe Divacs. Chicago young big men (Davis - Curry combo gives you a young kid with question marks, but also gives a proven vet. And you arent forced to make a call on paying big bucks to Curry for another few years - thats far different from the Dampier situation.) Kwame Brown? After all that was looked at, maybe Dampier is the way to go, but it seems to me there would be something in all of that thats better, and safer.

dalmations202 · 02-06-2004, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
DALM ...good questions.

You are ready to take "any Dampier we can get" - but I am reluctant. I just think there will be a better deal, if not now then in the summer. I am leery of the 80M commitment or so it will take to retain Dampier long term, after this season.

Specific other places I would look, hoping for a better deal. Ostertag as a FA. Rebraca. Maybe Divacs. Chicago young big men (Davis - Curry combo gives you a young kid with question marks, but also gives a proven vet. And you arent forced to make a call on paying big bucks to Curry for another few years - thats far different from the Dampier situation.) Kwame Brown? After all that was looked at, maybe Dampier is the way to go, but it seems to me there would be something in all of that thats better, and safer.

I am not really ready for "any Dampier". I just don't think their will be a better deal. The 80M committment may or may not have to be made. Could it be closer to say 48M over 4 years? I don't know. I would still want Ostertag for the MLE even if I do make this trade. Vlade isn't coming here, and is over the hill, I don't think you get as much talent out of Davis/Curry, just a bigger pricetag to keep. Kwame maybe, but he will come with a big pricetag as well, when/if he came. I have looked over every player listed, and cannot find one BIG man that I think is better than Damp; that has the possibility to come here. Damps biggest problems in this league has been that he has hands of stone. It makes it hard for him on the Offensive end of the floor. His offense is the least of the Mavs worries. Bradley can't guard the post. Ostertag gets killed by quicker Centers. With Dampier and Ostertag we could bang, rebound, block, and have a chance at winning it all every year for the next few. Oh yea, are you willing to invest 80M in Walker, he can opt out at the end of the year as well. Or are you going to pay him the 14M instead of what you will have to pay Damp?

I do understand taking the "safer" route. But I don't think safer wins Championships. LA gambled what 180 mill on Shaq, and he rewarded with 3 championships.

I still don't think this will happen. I will even change my opinion and go the safer route, if you will show me the person that we are waiting on to put us over the top. But if not, then lets hope that Mark, Nellie, and Donnie will make this happen.
-----------------

The guy I would really like to have is Bosh. A Center rotation of Bosh, Bradley, and Ostertag (I think we will get him with the MLE) would allow you to guard about any Centers on any team in the league. Either that or a healthy Camby instead of Bosh, but then you still need TAG for the banging.

LRB · 02-06-2004, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Bradley can't guard the post.

Actually Shawn is pretty damn good guarding every center in the post except Shaq. And Shawn has done well in the very limited minutes he's played against Shaq in the last 2 years. Bradley plays Duncan as well as I've seen anyone do. He doesn't phsyically push people around, but his height bothers everyone.

ddh33 · 02-06-2004, 04:17 PM

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but including Shawn Bradley is the only thing that would make me think twice.

I hate parting with the guys who have been here forever, even if they have been villified for part of that time. I just think that this is Shawn's home and he belongs to us. Believe it or not, I would rather deal Najera away - despite the fact that he is more well-liked.

Even though I like both of them, I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if Walker and Best were moved.

dalmations202 · 02-06-2004, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Bradley can't guard the post.

Actually Shawn is pretty damn good guarding every center in the post except Shaq. And Shawn has done well in the very limited minutes he's played against Shaq in the last 2 years. Bradley plays Duncan as well as I've seen anyone do. He doesn't phsyically push people around, but his height bothers everyone.

LRB;
I agree. My only issue with Bradley is that he does get pushed around underneath, and since officiating is what it is...he won't get the call. Also, he is best if he plays only 20 min or so a game. He bothers everyone, and is a very good defensive player, especially off the ball. He also guards the thinner centers well due to his length and quickness. He doesn't guard "dumptrucks" well though. That is why I want Damp and Tag in here. They can Bang. I don't want Bradley to leave. The three headed monster I would have needs to include Bradley, not instead of Bradley.