A view from a oakland paper - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ZueriMav · 08-17-2003, 12:05 PM

Just found in the Web. Pretty interesting read. I already miss Nick. But I'm also looking forward to seeing Jamison in the Mavs' uniform

Link

Article Last Updated: Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 4:41:57 AM PST

Trade should get stamp of approval
WHEN IT COMES to re-inventing themselves, the Golden State Warriors are Bill Parcells with a sprinkle of John Daly and a dash of Dennis Rodman.

The Warriors are a team of 10,000 transactions and a thousand face-lifts. But, you know something, they got it right this time.

Let's boil their latest deal down to the last 10 seconds of an NBA game. The score is tied and the Warriors have possession. Who should get ball, Antawn Jamison or Nick Van Exel?

C'mon, there's no question. Van Exel has the guts of a cat burglar. Next to Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson, who in the NBA is better in the clutch than Van Exel?

Jamison is one of the nicest guys in sports, and he has pogo-stick jumping ability and an uncanny shot release. But in big games, he plays small.

Case in point: On April 4 the Warriors had to defeat visiting Portland to have any playoff hope. Jamison scored 12 points in a loss. The next day he scored 41 against Denver.

That was typical for Jamison. He led the Warriors with a 22.2 scoring average, but he loaded up on the Denvers and deflated against the Portlands. The Warriors paid him like a marquee player, but that role last season clearly belonged to Gilbert Arenas.

Now both of them are gone and Warriors fans are crying: Oh, no, here we go again. Why should we pay money to watch the NBA's No. 1 changing act?

Well, look at what the act has become. With Jamison, Danny Fortson, Chris Mills and Jiri Welsch, the Warriors had the NBA's second-best offense but also the league's absolute worst defense. And they were 38-44 basically with Forston, Mills and Welsch as non-entities.

Thank God for Mark Cuban, the only NBA owner who would save the Warriors from the burden of all those overloaded contracts, thereby leaving them $20 million under the cap in two years. But ask yourself this: Would you pay $12 million a year, which the Warriors were prepared to do with Jamison, for basically a complementary player?

The answer is obvious. The only problem with this deal is

the Warriors didn't receive enough value in return. Van Exel now becomes the Warriors' best player, capable, at 32, of averaging 25 points per game. Chris Mullin recently met with Van Exel, two lefties, and Van Exel apparently has dropped his opposition to joining the Warriors.

But Avery Johnson, Popeye Jones and Evan Eschmeyer? Can Johnson and Jones still play? Eschmeyer is a No. 3 center. Couldn't the Warriors have gotten another live body from Dallas, a young, active forward such as Eduardo Najera?

Unless the Warriors find a qualified backup at forward, don't oversell the team's chances. But if they do find their man, then they have a shot at bettering 38 victories.

Acquiring Van Exel eases the loss of Arenas, whose quickness and fearlessness will be missed. But collectively the Warriors can survive his departure. Here's how:

The team has four solid guards -- Van Exel, Jason Richardson, Bobby Sura and Speedy Claxton. Van Exel offers scoring and Claxton passing at point guard. And they add versatility: Van Exel also is a shooting guard who could pair with Claxton.

Richardson reportedly is working hard on his skills in Los Angeles this summer, unlike Larry Hughes, Arenas' new teammate in Washington, who failed to improve during the off-season as a Warrior.

The Warriors will have Erick Dampier, Adonal Foyle and Eschmeyer at center, which is acceptable because it maintains the status quo.

What happens at forward, though, holds the key to the season. Mike Dunleavy played the same position as Jamison, but made less money, and so he stays. Now Dunleavy starts, and we'll see what he has to offer.

Dunleavy and Troy Murphy will each get more shots with Jamison gone. The two aren't great at creating opportunities off the dribble, but they can at least hit jump shots.

And Dunleavy adds a dimension with his passing and court savvy. Dunleavy, Claxton and Sura could give the Warriors their best passing game since the Rick Barry era.

Forward Mickael Pietrus, their top draft pick, specializes in defense, a welcome plus against Karl Malone and Peja Stojakovich. But the Warriors still need an additional scorer up front.

Maybe the Warriors have no more chance of re-inventing themselves than does Gray Davis. But one more time: Van Exel or Jamison, the clock's winding down to 0:00, the ball's in the air...

Give it some time. The deal will make sense.

Dave Newhouse can be reached at (510) 208-6466 or by e-mail at dnewhouse@angnewspapers.com

MFFL · 08-17-2003, 12:18 PM

I'm amazed that the Mavs didn't have to throw Najera into the deal.

MFFL · 08-17-2003, 12:20 PM

I'm also suprised that the Warriors didn't want Bell in a sign and trade rather than Popeye. Bell can contribute but Popeye can't.

Maybe it had to do with BYC issues.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-17-2003, 12:28 PM

I agree. They basically just asked for Nick. Thats the only reason I even do this deal is because its a steal for the Mavs and well we don't get rid of anyone who played with the Mavs in there playoff experience except for Nick. I have a strong feeling the Mavs are going to miss Nick. Not from a personal stand point but on the court. That clutch he brought to the table. That leadership. I nearly forgot that the Warriors had Pietrus. Why are they racking up at the small foward position so much? They should be trying to get bigger at the 4. When you think about it though the Warriors do have some pretty good players who are young. Murphey, Nick, Dunleavy, Foyle, and Jrich is a nice lineup. I mean do those positions really need any upgrading now? They didn't need any before but they addressed there pg problem and still have a pretty good lineup. I would've killed to get Murphey on this team.

Chiwas · 08-17-2003, 12:38 PM

Quote:

But in big games, he plays small.

This worries me.

Murphy3 · 08-17-2003, 12:41 PM

NVE came up big in the playoffs..but let's not forget that his clutch numbers throughout last season were actually rather anemic.

Murphy3 · 08-17-2003, 12:45 PM

of course, i say that not to take anything from NVE and what he did in the playoffs. but let's be realistic. What we saw in the playoffs is not representative of the types of numbers that NVE can and will put up on a regular basis. the clutch shots that he hit are not representative of what he does on a regular basis.

he was amazing at times in the playoffs..but don't let one good playoff run keep you from being able to look at a guy and get a realistic idea of what he does and does not do..and what he does and does not bring to the team.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-17-2003, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
of course, i say that not to take anything from NVE and what he did in the playoffs. but let's be realistic. What we saw in the playoffs is not representative of the types of numbers that NVE can and will put up on a regular basis. the clutch shots that he hit are not representative of what he does on a regular basis.

he was amazing at times in the playoffs..but don't let one good playoff run keep you from being able to look at a guy and get a realistic idea of what he does and does not do..and what he does and does not bring to the team.

Who cares about what he did in the regular season? Isn't the playoffs what it is all about? Isn't the regular season suppose to prepare you for the playoffs? Nick didn't play well for just 1 series or 2. He played well through the WHOLE playoffs at 32 years old. You make it sound as a fluke. This guy was seeing double teams by the end of the first round.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-17-2003, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas

Quote:

But in big games, he plays small.

This worries me.

Me too. But he is no longer the best player on his team so maybe some of that weight is lifted off of his shoulders. All I want him to do is play his game. He doesn't need to try and be the best player on this team. Just play his role. I hope that role is in the post.

Murphy3 · 08-17-2003, 12:51 PM

a fluke? no, not a fluke..but he played WAY above what is to be expected from him.

Yes, it was in the playoffs..which is my point. He did it over a short period of time. I don't believe that he's capable of doing that again in the playoffs or in the post season. I believe it was a stretch that he'll struggle to come close to duplicating again.

No, he's not exactly Mark Lemke, but he did play far above his head during the playoffs. It is not realistic to expect him to do so again

superheadcat · 08-17-2003, 12:52 PM

it is good that warrior may not be able to go to the playoff, so that we don't need to face nve then.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-17-2003, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
a fluke? no, not a fluke..but he played WAY above what is to be expected from him.

Yes, it was in the playoffs..which is my point. He did it over a short period of time. I don't believe that he's capable of doing that again in the playoffs or in the post season. I believe it was a stretch that he'll struggle to come close to duplicating again.

No, he's not exactly Mark Lemke, but he did play far above his head during the playoffs. It is not realistic to expect him to do so again

Well no I don't think thats possible. I'd imagine he'd see alot more coverage than he did this playoff series. Nick was incredible. I wouldn't expect him to duplicate that however I think he could put up his average again especially with Nash being on the decline when it comes to the playoffs.

Murphy3 · 08-17-2003, 01:03 PM

Fair enough FFM

jayC · 08-17-2003, 03:00 PM

What is this guy smoking? The mavs smoked the warriors on this one.

asola · 08-17-2003, 03:15 PM

I don't know, I'm kind of weary of 22 ppg players on bad teams who don't get anything better than NVE in return. I shudder thinking about Chuck Person.

OutletPass · 08-17-2003, 04:31 PM

This article is FAR from the same tone or response that I'm seeing from the GS fans and fans around the league. Almost all think we pulled off a huge steal....and frankly the ONLY thing that SOME of the GS fans are happy about is that Dunleavy gets the starting job at sf.

Chi, there's no reason to worry...Antawn will do just fine here as a complimentary player...he was asked to be the "savior" there...here, he'll just be another damn good player. trust me on this.

I just hope that they treat Nicky right out there....

MAVFANRICH · 08-17-2003, 06:19 PM

WHEN JAMISON IS SURROUNDED BY THE PLAYERS IN DALLAS AND THE WINNING ATMOSPHERE THAT IS REPRESENTED BY A 60 WIN SEASON, HE AND FORTSON WILL BE BIG TIME PLAYERS. HE DOESNT NEED TO BE EVERYTHING HERE. BESIDES, WHATS A GUY GOING TO SAY WHEN HIS TEAM JUST GOT MASSIVELY DESTROYED TRADEWISE? BY THE WAY, ANYONE EVER EVEN HEARD OF WHO OWNS THE WARRIORS? EXACTLY MY POINT.

aidzhsiah · 08-17-2003, 07:42 PM

I actually live in San Francisco. I'm a Warriors fan apart from being a Mavs fan and I totally think that the Mavs got away with murder on this one. I'm overjoyed that the Mavs got a kick ass forward scorer/rebounder. But at the same time, I'm now stuck attending NBA games where I have to watch Nick score, JRich miss shots and Dunleavy to look lost. I have to live with Troy Murphy being a scoring threat.

Jamison is NOT a superstar. He's an awesome player. He can't carry a team but he CAN and WILL contribute heavily. Why should it matter if Jamison can take over ? That role, by all accounts, belongs to Dirk first, Nash second and maybe even Fin 3rd. Just having a 4th player that can score 20 a game relieves the NEED to be clutch. Hell, by having Jamison, the Mavs finally have a fourth threat in scoring and a 2nd great rebounder WITHOUT harming the integrity of the lineup by playing ridiculously undersized.

Anyone in the SF Bay who can wholeheartedly justify this trade is strongly in denial.

f l u r p · 08-17-2003, 08:00 PM

Odd, but it appears to me from the GS forum at realgm, their going nuts thinking this is a good trade. I'd say it's about 80/20 in favor of it. They're bagging on Jamison, outright hate Fortson and their only regret is not seeing Jiri develop.

Chicago JK · 08-17-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: f l u r p
Odd, but it appears to me from the GS forum at realgm, their going nuts thinking this is a good trade. I'd say it's about 80/20 in favor of it. They're bagging on Jamison, outright hate Fortson and their only regret is not seeing Jiri develop.

That is the case in most trades. coolaid can work on both sides. I relate this similar to the Dallas trade of Mashburn several years ago. I think Dallas fans were so frustrated of the losing that they just were happy for any trade. I bet a lot of fans were just happy to get Mashburn out of here.

Chiwas · 08-17-2003, 09:54 PM

Quote:

The team has four solid guards -- Van Exel, Jason Richardson, Bobby Sura and Speedy Claxton. Van Exel offers scoring and Claxton passing at point guard. And they add versatility: Van Exel also is a shooting guard who could pair with Claxton.

They could be the scariest small ball team.

MavsFanFinley · 08-17-2003, 10:02 PM

Financial gain expected from trade

By Matt Steinmetz
CONTRA COSTA TIMES

Less than a year ago, Warriors general manager Garry St. Jean was talking to reporters in his office when he showed them a blackboard with the following words written on it: "Warriors' philosophy."

Under that heading were approximately 10 guidelines for the upcoming season. Among them: "Develop the young core; no short-term fixes; stick with the plan -- go young."

On Monday, an eight-player trade between the Warriors and Dallas is expected to be finalized, one that will send Antawn Jamison, the team's leading scorer for the past four years, and three other players, to the Mavericks for point guards Nick Van Exel and Avery Johnson, forward Popeye Jones and center Evan Eschmeyer.

Within the past two months, the Warriors, who are coming off their most successful season since 1993-94, have turned over half their roster. They drafted shooting guard Mickael Pietrus, signed free-agent point guard Speedy Claxton and are on the cusp of adding those four Mavericks, three of whom are 32 years of age or older. The league is expected to make the deal official on Monday.

In the meantime, they lost starting point guard Gilbert Arenas, 21, to the Washington Wizards and backup Earl Boykins to the Denver Nuggets via free agency. And now, Jamison, Danny Fortson, Chris Mills and Jiri Welsch are no longer in the picture.

The trade with Dallas not only will have a significant impact on the court but on the team's future salary cap situation. The effects on the hardwood will come immediately. But the financial flexibility that the trade could yield probably won't come for a few years.

Jamison's departure likely will open up the starting small forward position for Mike Dunleavy, who played sparingly last season as a rookie. In Jamison, the Warriors lose a player who has averaged over 20 points per game during his five-year career. Arenas, who averaged 18.6 points per game last season, was the team's second-leading scorer a year ago.

Van Exel, Dallas' second-leading scorer in the playoffs last season, will likely inherit Arenas' starting position, forcing Claxton into a backup role.

The move does allow the Warriors, coming off a 38-44 season, to get out from under Jamison's unwieldy contract. He is set to earn $69 million over the next five years -- and an exorbitant $19.1 million in 2007-08. Trading Fortson, who missed 65 games for a variety of reasons last season, will save the Warriors almost $26 million over the next four years.

Johnson, who will make $5.4 million this season, and Mills, who will make $6 million, are on the final year of their contracts. In all, the Warriors lopped off approximately $45 million in guaranteed payroll that was to be paid out through 2008.

That savings, however, likely won't be felt until after the 2006 season, when Van Exel's contract expires. The only way the Warriors will get a quick financial windfall from the trade is if Van Exel opts out of his contract at season's end. Van Exel, who has approximately $35 million remaining on his deal, would have to leave $25 million of it on the table -- in order to become a free agent at the end of 2003-04.

Further clouding the salary cap issue is that center Erick Dampier also has an opt-out clause after this year. If Dampier opts out, he would give up $17 million over the final two years of his contract. If Van Exel and Dampier don't opt out, the Warriors' payroll next summer will likely hover around $40 million, not far enough under the salary cap to be a major player in the free agent market.

Salary cap relief might not come until after the 2006 season, when the contracts of Van Exel and Dampier expire. As of now, only Eschmeyer has a guaranteed deal that extends into the 2006-07 season.

The Warriors open the 2003-04 regular season against the Mavericks at the Arena on Oct. 29.

Nash13 · 08-17-2003, 10:28 PM

The original article made it seem like GS got the better deal. Here's my take:

This gives the Mavs a lot more depth for the playoffs. There were 7 people in our rotation, sad isn't it. The only people we use off the bench was Bradley, Walt, and Griffin to hack Bowen. With this trade, not only does it give us a better starting 5, but come playoff time, we have Mills, Bradley, Fortson, Howard, Najera, Daniels, and Welsch.

Although this team is not complete, it is more complete than last year, which makes this a huge plus considering that 3 of the 4 players traded was on the IR in the playoffs.