(ESPN Insider) New New York Trade Rumor, Includes Raef. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Lvubun1 · 06-30-2002, 07:32 PM

INTERESTED THE SKINNY
Knicks Jun. 30 - Now that the Knicks have completed the deal with Denver and sent Marcus Camby, Mark Jackson and Nene Hilario to the Nuggets for McDyess and Frank Williams, will they still go after Van Exel. The Knicks were talking to the Mavs last night about a deal that would send Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward, and 2003 1st and 2nd rd picks to the Mavs for Nick Van Exel and Raef Lafrentz. The Knicks would prefer Andre Miller, but this isn't a bad second option.

Stole this from the Heat Msg. Boardhttp://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/nba/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=nba_mia&id=98225

Its insider so it doesn't have a link but the guy has the Insider logo by his name, and its the Heat board I don't see why they would lie about it.

Now I pray this isn't true, NVE for Ward and KT is already a rip-off but when you add Raef for only two draft picks, which will probably be late because the Knicks with Dice, Spree, Houston, NVE and Raef should be enough to take the East or atleast get close. Plus the Mavs would still be stuck with Mantis!

Drbio · 06-30-2002, 07:47 PM

dear God let this be conjecture!

what a STUPID trade for the Mavs....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

seelenjaeger · 06-30-2002, 07:51 PM

i can really picture this talks

"are you interested in ..." - "no"

those talks ONLY make sense if raef somehow indicated that we would not re-sign with dallas. i can´t picture vanE, raef and dice regrouping in NY though

FilthyFinMavs · 06-30-2002, 07:58 PM

But just think about if New York ended up being the worst team in the NBA and we ended up getting there 1st pick? Dirk Lebron James Finley and Nash on teh same squad? THat would be insane. But in the EAST u dont know who is gonna come out of it so if u do this ur gonn ahave to take ur luck. I dont know if it happened I dont think I would be upset but I dont think Mavs should make a trade like this being how close they are.

Drbio · 06-30-2002, 07:58 PM

They would be the Denver Nuggets all over again. That would be a crappy team. Some will argue that NVE, Raef, Dice, Houston and Spree would be a great team, and I agree they would be a solid team in the East, but the curse of the Nuggets would strike them down.

Another reason to trade NVE.

MavKikiNYC · 06-30-2002, 08:07 PM

This is a silly rumor started by some crack smokin' NY sportswriter/fan.

Fuggitaboudit.

Lvubun1 · 06-30-2002, 08:21 PM

<< They would be the Denver Nuggets all over again. That would be a crappy team. Some will argue that NVE, Raef, Dice, Houston and Spree would be a great team, and I agree they would be a solid team in the East, but the curse of the Nuggets would strike them down.

Another reason to trade NVE. >>

Actually the last time NVE, Raef, and Dice played together all healthy for a entire season they only finished 3 games under .500, which would be playoffs in the east. Not to mention playing in the east would give them probably 6-7 more wins since they would only have to play the Lakers, Spurs etc. 2 times instead of 4.

Flashfunk · 06-30-2002, 08:51 PM

denver nuggs did not suck...prior to the break up the 1999 and 2000 denver nuggets records were 35-47, and 40-42 respectivly, now consider this, add latrell spree and allan houston to that mix and you would garunteed win 6+ games a year. granted they still have a hole in the middle...moreso that DAL

Drbio · 06-30-2002, 11:11 PM

I told you some would argue. I just saw it coming.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

FilthyFinMavs · 07-01-2002, 12:12 AM

Spree Houston Nick Mcdyess and Raef all on the same team? That would be straight sick and they would be favors to win the east. The only problem would be can the KNicks coach handle them. I just see Nick and Spree fighting all the time but they would win games so who would care lol. But I dont understand how would hte salarys match if it takes two people to get NVE and if we add Raef that cant match.

TheKid · 07-02-2002, 10:20 AM

From everything I'm reading now, the Knicks are really trying to make a move to get Andre Miller. If they do that, then scrap the entire NVE deal.

Lvubun1 · 07-02-2002, 01:03 PM

I know NY wants 'Dre Miller but I don't think they have anything the Cavs want, the Cavs have already said they want nothing to do with Spree. So unless they throw in Dyess, Frank Williams, and/or draft picks, I don't think its going to happen.

TheKid · 07-02-2002, 01:26 PM

Actually, I don't think the KNICKS have anything they want... They would probably trade Frank Williams for Andre Miller, I know I would.

Rhylan · 07-02-2002, 01:39 PM

The fact is the Knicks don't have enough of anything that anybody wants to make a lot of deals.

I still think that if they went after NVE in earnest, it would take Thomas, Ward, AND Williams coming this way to get the deal done. We could definately use Thomas, but NVE has a little more value than just KT and Ward.

Look at the Knicks' options for available veteran PGs:

1. Dre
2. Baron
3. Terrell Brandon
4. NVE
5. Chauncey
6. Tell me if I've left out someone else..

..after Dre and Baron, NVE is as good a choice as any. So, if the Knicks really want a vet PG bad enough, and they can't make a deal with Cleveland, and if Baron signs that extension...they'll be in a very tight market. NVE might end up being the best option, if Layden's heart is set on bringing in a PG.

For the Knicks.. could Sam Cassell be an option??

FilthyFinMavs · 07-02-2002, 01:42 PM

Knicks alaso have there own lil core and Spree Houston Mcdyess are all stayin. The first 2 are staying cause they get paid so much theres no way Cavs would take on any of there contracts.

Murphy3 · 07-02-2002, 02:07 PM

<< I still think that if they went after NVE in earnest, it would take Thomas, Ward, AND Williams coming this way to get the deal done >>

hmm..., no, the only reason thomas and ward for nve wouldn't go down is because of the knicks unwillingness..not because of the mavs

Rhylan · 07-02-2002, 02:27 PM

But, Murph, I'm sayin' that if the market for vet PGs dries up, and the Knicks really want Nick, then you try your damndest to get Williams thrown in. I think we'd all much rather have Williams in there learning and taking minutes from Ward than just Ward backing up Nash.

Murphy3 · 07-02-2002, 02:37 PM

sure...i agree with that.... you want to get what you can. however, you're asking for much more than what the mavs would be giving up in return

TheKid · 07-02-2002, 04:05 PM

There is NO WAY the Knicks would trade Thomas, Ward and Williams for just NVE... I think NVE is valuable but here is NOT NEARLY that valuable...

threadkilla · 07-02-2002, 05:09 PM

On another board I was reading that the proposed trade was Raef and NVE for McDyess. Wow. That one would be really strange if it occurred.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

Dooby · 07-02-2002, 05:17 PM

That is not possible per league rules.

Drbio · 07-02-2002, 06:26 PM

Dice cannot be traded, but I cannot remember the deadline.

Just21 · 07-02-2002, 08:10 PM

Mavs won't deal LaFrentz for just that crap

I do think something is up with the Knicks and Mavs though

one rumor has that the knicks took pg Milos Vujanic in the draft for the Mavs
the mavs are the only team that worked him out (twice)

I would like to see kurt thomas come back, but i can't think of anything I would trade to get him.

Drbio · 07-02-2002, 08:56 PM

The Knicks and Mavs would have to get equal salary. Throwing in Milos doesn't get a whole lot of salary, so basically he is just filler in any offer. It would still take Thomas plus Ward or somesuch.

Lvubun1 · 07-02-2002, 10:13 PM

1. I don't think NY is saying "no" to this trade, I think they are weighing their options seeing if they can get, Miller or Davis. If this trade is true, and the Knick realize they can't get Miller or Davis, I see them jumping on this trade quick.

2. I might get heat for this, but does anybody else think Miller's trade value is way too high. No doubt he is good player but teams are willing to give their left arm for him. For the most part, we as fans are taking the media's word for it when it comes to Andre Miller, I personally have only seen him play at the NBA Rookie game, and unless you have NBA ticket the most you will see him play is once or twice a year. He is not play-off tested, or even big game tested. His jumper is Kidd-like, while not a horrible defender, I haven't heard him being called a great defender, of course like I said before I haven't seen him play much but I could be wrong about that. People point at his assist numbers on a bad team, but the same can/has been said about NVE who also had high assist numbers on a bad team, but people pawn it off as "because he always has the ball" which I'm sure can be said about Andre Miller. So you either give both of them credit for it or neither one, because if anything NVE had less talent around him then Miller. I'm not saying Miller isn't a good player or maybe even a top 5 PG, I just don't understand why teams are willing to give up so much for him. The Miller for Wilcox, Woods, Odom/and or Kandi and future #1s proposed on ESPN Insider today is completly crazy, and people wonder why the Cavs are shopping him.

Rhylan · 07-02-2002, 10:23 PM

Milos wouldn't count as "salary" in the trade, because he was a second rounder. Much like we traded the rights to Kyle Hill to Houston last year. It's just something you can chunk in there. If he's good, then I could live with him coming along with Thomas and Ward. Ward is serviceable, I would just feel better if the Nellies had someone, even a project kid like Milos, to groom to back up Nash.

Drbio · 07-03-2002, 08:01 AM

His slot salary counts. It's low though.

Dooby · 07-03-2002, 08:09 AM

I don't think draft pick salaries do count until tender offers are made. I don't think that has to be done for some time.

Drbio · 07-03-2002, 08:16 AM

You may be right. I was thinking that the slot could be included though in trade evaluation.

Hoopsmeister · 07-03-2002, 01:11 PM

"Slots" are the old CBA, they don't exist anymore. An unsigned player is worth $0 in terms of cap calculations.

Dooby · 07-03-2002, 02:17 PM

Until the tender offer is made and then the salary for trade purposes is the tender offer.

Drbio · 07-03-2002, 03:07 PM

consider me ed-u-ma-cated

Just21 · 07-03-2002, 09:17 PM

I agree that teams are offering too much for Miller. If the CLips gave all those players up for him would it really make them any better.
Also who knows if that's really being offered, don't you think the Cavs would have taken it by now.