long term: big two guard with monta at point

[DGM]

Watching rondo play shows how the offense is impacted by his inability to score. Montae has good handles and makes great passes plus he can attack the basket. Would love to see the Mavs get a big two guard and run Montae at the point. Would that work? If no, why not?

[mavsfan1000]

Monta is a 2 guard. He defends 2 guards. I'm guessing turnovers will increase and assists will go down. Also Ellis defending point guards will tire him out and hurt his shooting.

[spreedom]

I agree that we need a big, defensive-minded shooting guard that is a capable three-point shooter. I disagree that Rondo should be the odd man out.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I agree that we need a big, defensive-minded shooting guard that is a capable three-point shooter. I disagree that Rondo should be the odd man out.

So are you saying Ellis is the odd one out? I think Ellis needs to stay as a 2 guard but needs a point guard willing to let him run the offense. And that point guard needs to hit the open 3 when available to prevent the defense from doubling Ellis or Dirk. Kind of like Calderon. But better defensively.

[Kante]

Monta at the point would be a disaster.

OT: mavsfan probably shits on Rondo (can't/doesn't want to see the post) and spreedom wants to trade Ellis...

[sefant77]

There is a good reason why RC never stuck Monta in this PG role...and i trust him with this decision.

I would love to get a upgrade to Harris. Basically a better and little bit bigger Harris. Maybe Afflalo in his Magic year. Or of course someone like Dragic, but he was a pipedream anyway. Someone that can do everything solid or good: defense, 3p, rebounding...

But yeah - a backcourt rotation with Rondo/Monta and another big combo guard. Pretty sure RC would love to throw out some nice rotations based on such a trio.

Lets see, im also fine with packing Harris and the 2015 1st on draft night to get the devin upgrade...

[SMC0007]

Rondo just needs to work on his shooting touch. It's not gonna happen this season, but may we can eek out an opening playoff series, but I don't think it's worth while to expect anything more. His lack of shooting hamstrings our offense quite a bit right now. God forbid he is on the foul line at the end of the games.

The un-timely turnovers are becoming a big issue lately to, I see it going the wrong direction and all of these guards need to get a handle on running the show.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Rondo just needs to work on his shooting touch. It's not gonna happen this season, but may we can eek out an opening playoff series, but I don't think it's worth while to expect anything more. His lack of shooting hamstrings our offense quite a bit right now. God forbid he is on the foul line at the end of the games.

The un-timely turnovers are becoming a big issue lately to, I see it going the wrong direction and all of these guards need to get a handle on running the show.

Has there been a worse shooter at the line at the point guard position career wise? And Rondo's approaching the age where most players lose a step. They usually make up for it with relying more on their jumper. Can't see that being an option for Rondo. He might decline quicker than Allen Iverson.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Has there been a worse shooter at the line at the point guard position career wise? And Rondo's approaching the age where most players lose a step. They usually make up for it with relying more on their jumper. Can't see that being an option for Rondo. He might decline quicker than Allen Iverson.

Idk about his career decline, but the kind of consistent work he needs in adjusting his shot to become a better shooter, he isn't gonna get during the season...not in the west where every game counts towards the playoffs. He needs an offseason and a coach and he needs tons of work on tweaking his form and the most important thing will be gaining confidence to let it rip. IT has to feel terrible to be a professional and know the game so well, see things the weay he does and also know that other teams are gonna sag off of you and dare you to pull it. He is a smart PG and he knows damn well it's happening and he just doesn't seem to want to risk the possession to try and make them pay for dropping off of him.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I think Ellis needs to stay as a 2 guard but needs a point guard willing to let him run the offense. And that point guard needs to hit the open 3 when available to prevent the defense from doubling Ellis or Dirk. Kind of like Calderon. But better defensively.

Have you taken a look at the pg's available next year if we do not sign rondo? A pg who doesn't need or at least can defer to Ellis and hit the 3 and play defense? Sure, let's just sign one from the tree those grow on.

It basically goes from Dragic, who is an UFA and not coming here over the other places he can go. To Knight, who is a RFA. Down a cliff to Beverley, who also is a RFA. Then it sinks in quicksand to backups like Mo Williams and Aaron Brooks. Both can play offense and neither can play defense.

Would rather see Rondo with a full off season and some minor tweaks to roster. Maybe a guy like Danny Green off the bench gives RC even more versatility with lineups.

[markus1234]

Monta would be a perfect PG. But now he is probably too old to learn how to play this position. Blame Nellie.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Monta would be a perfect PG. But now he is probably too old to learn how to play this position. Blame Nellie.

Or he was better as a SG.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Has there been a worse shooter at the line at the point guard position career wise? And Rondo's approaching the age where most players lose a step. They usually make up for it with relying more on their jumper. Can't see that being an option for Rondo. He might decline quicker than Allen Iverson.

Rajon Pierre Rondo (* 22. Februar 1986 in Louisville, Kentucky)
José Juan Barea Mora (* 26. Juni 1984 in Mayagüez, Puerto Rico)

Damn, JJ´s career is basically over...

[mavsfan1000]

Amare is a beast.

[Thespiralgoeson]

NO F*CKING THANK YOU to Monta at point.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Have you taken a look at the pg's available next year if we do not sign rondo? A pg who doesn't need or at least can defer to Ellis and hit the 3 and play defense? Sure, let's just sign one from the tree those grow on.

It basically goes from Dragic, who is an UFA and not coming here over the other places he can go. To Knight, who is a RFA. Down a cliff to Beverley, who also is a RFA. Then it sinks in quicksand to backups like Mo Williams and Aaron Brooks. Both can play offense and neither can play defense.

Would rather see Rondo with a full off season and some minor tweaks to roster. Maybe a guy like Danny Green off the bench gives RC even more versatility with lineups.

On the point of Dragic, we have no possible way of signing him and retaining Monta at the same time. Only reason Rondo can is b/c Bird rights on him, early bird on Monta, Bird on T Chandler.

I sure hope Rondo starts to play better ball. I'm a huge fan of his, but right now hes not even playing like a quality starter (much less a Max contract player).

[dirt_dobber]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I sure hope Rondo starts to play better ball. I'm a huge fan of his, but right now hes not even playing like a quality starter (much less a Max contract player).

= the way I feel

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by DGM

Watching rondo play shows how the offense is impacted by his inability to score. Montae has good handles and makes great passes plus he can attack the basket. Would love to see the Mavs get a big two guard and run Montae at the point. Would that work? If no, why not?

How convenient of you to moan about Rondo's abilities and talk about getting someone else without naming who that someone might be. You expect others to come up with answers without putting any effort in it yourself. Who is that imaginary big two guard you would love to see Mavs get? There aren't that many around the league so it should be an easy task to find a name.

But putting Monta into point... Well, I guess you don't like him scoring the ball then? He is a scorer and has always been but now for some reason you want him to make a passer? I understand that Monta is so gifted that he only needs to play in 4th quarter and being down by 12 is nothing for him to make up but having to chase fast guards will make things harder. Lets face it, today's NBA is filled with young and fast Point Guards. There aren't many Shooting Guards that need to be defended like when Iversons and Wades and Bryants where playing.

In West you have Curry, Conley, Lillard, Paul, Parker, Westbrook as PGs who can cause a lot of damage if left unguarded. Do you really want to make Ellis guard them and lose his effort on offensive side of the ball or perhaps you are one of those 'lets see how much they score and then try to outscore them' people? You can make a list from same teams' SG positions and decide which position players you would like Monta to guard.

Lets face it, you would only ask Monta to change his game if something was wrong with his game. By trying to put him into PG means you want him pass more and score less. It has nothing to do with Rondo - or perhaps you see Monta as something like Marcus Smart/Avery Bradley project that Boston has been trying to do?

One other thing to note, Ellis playing Point quite probably wouldn't be able to take part in fast breaks since he would need to bring up the ball...

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I think Ellis needs to stay as a 2 guard but needs a point guard willing to let him run the offense. And that point guard needs to hit the open 3 when available to prevent the defense from doubling Ellis or Dirk. Kind of like Calderon. But better defensively.

When are you going to start using names? Your imaginary Point Guard is not the main ball handler, is able to hit outside shots and good at defense. You already know what you want, you have access to all teams' rosters - how hard is it then for you to come up with a name instead of complaining like there's no tomorrow? You point out what Mavs need, and I doubt anyone is arguing that Mavs need it, but start saying WHO Mavs need - to make valid arguments instead of pointing out obvious which everyone already knows - this is how people tend to build up a whiny images of themselves.

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

And Rondo's approaching the age where most players lose a step. They usually make up for it with relying more on their jumper. Can't see that being an option for Rondo. He might decline quicker than Allen Iverson.

So what everyone around the league usually refers to prime years is the time when players start regressing for you? I'm guessing it amazes you that Duncan doesn't need a wheelchair to help him play. Perhaps you could be kind enough to do some research and educate us all how old was Kidd until he was able to start hitting reliable three pointers?

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I'm a huge fan of his, but right now hes not even playing like a quality starter (much less a Max contract player).

The problem with whether Rondo is a max player or not is not about how well he is playing. The problem is Jim Buss and Kobe.

[sike]

There is ZERO chance Rondo deserves a MAX deal on a good team the way he has played these last couple seasons.

[mavsfan1000]

Lol Rondo a max player? Not even close. I've already mentioned Reggie Jackson and Dragic. But I doubt Cuban will make anymore changes for awhile. We just gotta accept a slowed down tempo and figuring out how to score with 1 less 3 point threat.

[LonghornDub]

I strongly suspect that the only way the Mavs don't keep Rondo next year is if he decides he'd rather play elsewhere. They're not going to decide based on half a season that he's not a fit, and they're not going to low-ball him.

Who knows whether they offer him the full max, but they'll be making him a sizable offer with the intent of keeping him. And I think that'll be true regardless of how this season ends (unless he suffers some serious injury, of course).

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I strongly suspect that the only way the Mavs don't keep Rondo next year is if he decides he'd rather play elsewhere. They're not going to decide based on half a season that he's not a fit, and they're not going to low-ball him.

Who knows whether they offer him the full max, but they'll be making him a sizable offer with the intent of keeping him. And I think that'll be true regardless of how this season ends (unless he suffers some serious injury, of course).

Half a season is 41 games + playoffs. That should be plenty of time to decide what he's worth. A full season was enough to decide that Walker and Jamison weren't good fits. And tbh I knew they didn't fit way before the playoffs. I got that same feeling with Rondo.

[spreedom]

Jared Dudley has an ETO this summer. If he does not exercise it, he would make $4.25M next season. I'm pretty sure he's taking that option to become a free agent. He's healthy now, shooting over 40% from three, playing great defense and has the versatility to play multiple positions on both ends.

I would much rather give both Dudley and Amar'e 3yr/$20M contracts than giving Ellis $18-20M per year for 4 or 5 years.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Jared Dudley has an ETO this summer. If he does not exercise it, he would make $4.25M next season. I'm pretty sure he's taking that option to become a free agent. He's healthy now, shooting over 40% from three, playing great defense and has the versatility to play multiple positions on both ends.

I would much rather give both Dudley and Amar'e 3yr/$20M contracts than giving Ellis $18-20M per year for 4 or 5 years.

You mean Rondo. Ellis has been great for us.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Since when is Reggie Jackson a 3 point threat? How will we pay for Dragic or Jackson(RFA) in free agency? Rondo seems like he will be here simply because there is not a better option available. IIRC he hasn't had a real off season since his ACL injury in 2013, so having one and one where he is with us might help a lot, that would be the hope. I doubt anybody is satisfied with how Rondo has played, not even Rondo himself. But without shedding salary of a major contract Idk how you expect us to get Dragic or Jackson. I also don't see the appeal of Jackson on this team.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

You mean Rondo. Ellis has been great for us.

No, I don't. Wings are ten times easier to replace than point guards. I agree that Rondo's shooting needs to improve dramatically, but I think the solution is to replace Ellis with a player that complements Rondo's game better.

I love Ellis. I am glad to say that I was totally wrong about him when he signed here 18 months ago. But he is undersized, isn't much of a three point shooter, and is often a minus defender. I think replacing him, with a good defender that can play average or above-average catch-and-shoot offense, improves this team a lot and it will be a lot easier than it would be to find a new point guard.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by spreedom

No, I don't. Wings are ten times easier to replace than point guards. I agree that Rondo's shooting needs to improve dramatically, but I think the solution is to replace Ellis with a player that complements Rondo's game better.

I love Ellis. I am glad to say that I was totally wrong about him when he signed here 18 months ago. But he is undersized, isn't much of a three point shooter, and is often a minus defender. I think replacing him, with a good defender that can play average or above-average catch-and-shoot offense, improves this team a lot and it will be a lot easier than it would be to find a new point guard.

Well you are in the minority thinking Rondo is better than Ellis. Ellis is our goto guy now. No longer is it Dirk. And thinking Rondo can still improve at this late stage is wishful thinking. Chandler, Ellis, and Dirk are our big 3. We need to build around them properly.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Well you are in the minority thinking Rondo is better than Ellis. Ellis is our goto guy now. No longer is it Dirk. And thinking Rondo can still improve at this late stage is wishful thinking. Chandler, Ellis, and Dirk are our big 3. We need to build around them properly.

I didn't say that either. I said, as clearly as I could, that I thought Ellis would be easier to replace. Come on man...

[rimrocker]

This is a ridiculous debate.
Rondo, Ellis, and Chandler will all be resigned if we want to compete next season. If Cuban wants to go the cheap route he might as well not sign any of them.
If this team can't do damage in the POs they will be forced to sign all of them to have any chance next season. If they do well in the POs Cuban will want to bring them all back.
There is nearly zero chance this team gets better without signing all of those 3 considering the bird's rights and ability to go over the cap.

Cuban will pay luxury tax so does it really matter what we pay Rondo at this point?

Our best bet is to bring everyone back and pay either Amare or Aminu MLE. It looks like one of those two most likely be gone.

RC just has to make it work.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I didn't say that either. I said, as clearly as I could, that I thought Ellis would be easier to replace. Come on man...

A superstar is not easier to replace. So either way, you are wrong.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

A superstar is not easier to replace. So either way, you are wrong.

Are you saying Ellis is a superstar? I mean, I love the guy, but he's not even an All-Star.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Half a season is 41 games + playoffs. That should be plenty of time to decide what he's worth. A full season was enough to decide that Walker and Jamison weren't good fits. And tbh I knew they didn't fit way before the playoffs. I got that same feeling with Rondo.

Yeah, you're missing the point. I'm not saying a half-season isn't enough time to make a fit determination in some objective sense. Your comparison to other players is irrelevant. I'm saying that, in this particular case with this particular player, I am virtually certain the Mavs' front office won't be willing to conclude after a half season (plus playoffs) that he's not a fit.

They're far more likely, I think, to try and re-tool around Rondo and their other core pieces than to jettison him. Certainly you can question whether that's the right approach, but I'm not making a judgment about it, just stating what I think the front office will do.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

A superstar is not easier to replace. So either way, you are wrong.

[yahyes]

Rondo and Monta together are fine. I hope they both are paired up to start here long term.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Rondo and Monta together are fine. I hope they both are paired up to start here long term.

Fine and great are 2 different things. Being fine doesn't win you championships.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Fine and great are 2 different things. Being fine doesn't win you championships.

EASY SOLUTION: Replace Rondo with an All Star caliber PG immediately this summer. Got it.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

EASY SOLUTION: Replace Rondo with an All Star caliber PG immediately this summer. Got it.

But they have to be 6'6"
and also they have to shoot the three at 40% or better
and also they have to defend and make up for all of Ellis' weaknesses
and also they have to ask Mavs1000 first, before pulling the trigger.
and also they can't cost us a bunch, because we don't have many trade assets. Hopefully it would just take Rondo to make it happen. Maybe Rondo+Felton

[Kante]

mavsfan getting s**t on from everyone.

Like it!

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

But they have to be 6'6"
and also they have to shoot the three at 40% or better
and also they have to defend and make up for all of Ellis' weaknesses
and also they have to ask Mavs1000 first, before pulling the trigger.

Lol funny. No a 6'2 point guard that shoots about 40% from 3 and defends well should about do it. If you look at many championship teams, most of them had a point guard like that. Fisher, Kidd, Mills, Kerr, Armstrong, and etc. All great shooting point guards.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Lol funny. No a 6'2 point guard that shoots about 40% from 3 and defends well should about do it. If you look at many championship teams, most of them had a point guard like that. Fisher, Kidd, Mills, Kerr, Armstrong, and etc. All great shooting point guards.

Just for giggles, who would you propose we get that is both 6'2", shoots 40% from three and defends well?

Guys that shoot the three at 38%+ - 8 guys in the whole league
Brooks
Calderon
Irving
Knight
Conley
Curry
Thomas
Paul

Guys who shoot the three at 40%+ and are 6'2" or better - 5 guys in the whole league
Jose Calderon
Kyrie Irving
Brandon Knight
Steph Curry
Chris Paul

Guys who shoot the three at 38%+, are 6'2" or taller, and play defense - 3 guys in the whole league
Steph Curry
Chris Paul
Brandon Knight

Guys who shoot the three at 40%+, are 6'2" or taller, and play defense - 2 guys in the whole league
Steph Curry
Brandon Knight

Which of those three is available? Which of those three could we afford with our current roster and second round picks? If you can figure that out, please do tell the MBT. Also, please tell Nelson if only 40% will do, because that would also eliminate Chris Paul.