Mitt Romney is one of the greatest and most irresponsible debt creators of all time

[SeanL]

But what most voters don't know is the way Mitt Romney actually made his fortune: by borrowing vast sums of money that other people were forced to pay back. This is the plain, stark reality that has somehow eluded America's top political journalists for two consecutive presidential campaigns: Mitt Romney is one of the greatest and most irresponsible debt creators of all time. In the past few decades, in fact, Romney has piled more debt onto more unsuspecting companies, written more gigantic checks that other people have to cover, than perhaps all but a handful of people on planet Earth.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...#ixzz25QzONrD8

[Murphy3]

Sounds like him and Obama will get along. Now, if Mitt would just start aborting 3 year olds, him and Obama could be best friends.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Sounds like him and Obama will get along. Now, if Mitt would just start aborting 3 year olds, him and Obama could be best friends.

by definition a 3 year old can't be aborted.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by SeanL

by definition a 3 year old can't be aborted.

Hyperbole?... Ever heard of it?

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Hyperbole?... Ever heard of it?

Conservatives want to lynch blacks and gays...

[Ninkobei]

I think it is weird that Conservatives are for "smaller government" yet they want to control what people do with their bodies and whether or not you can get married. One would think those would be conservative issues.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

I think it is weird that Conservatives are for "smaller government" yet they want to control what people do with their bodies and whether or not you can get married. One would think those would be conservative issues.

And liberals are against the death penalty but pro abortion? I'm not sure what the justification for that one is.. very..odd

I suppose I'm a buffet guy. Unfortunately, there's just not enough of us that are capable of actually wanting a little of this and wanting a little of that from both parties.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

And liberals are against the death penalty but pro abortion? I'm not sure what the justification for that one is.. very..odd

I suppose I'm a buffet guy. Unfortunately, there's just not enough of us that are capable of actually wanting a little of this and wanting a little of that from both parties.

A mass of cells that can neither think nor feel is not the same thing as a developed sentient human being. False equivalency.

[Murphy3]

False in your opinion. In my opinion, it's someone just trying to justify murder. Awfully hypocritical.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

False in your opinion. In my opinion, it's someone just trying to justify murder. Awfully hypocritical.

It is not an opinion. It is a fact that a mass of cells can't think or feel. You are allowed to have your own opinions, but you are not allowed to have your own facts.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by SeanL

It is not an opinion. It is a fact that a mass of cells can't think or feel. You are allowed to have your own opinions, but you are not allowed to have your own facts.

Who isn't a mass of cells?

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Who isn't a mass of cells?

Sorry... non-thinking, non-feeling mass of cells.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Sorry... non-thinking, non-feeling mass of cells.

A non-thinking, non-feeling mass of cells can't think or feel? Wow, you're really profound.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by SeanL

It is not an opinion. It is a fact that a mass of cells can't think or feel. You are allowed to have your own opinions, but you are not allowed to have your own facts.

I guess 24 weeks involves just the aborting of a mass of cells. Maybe I should tell my boss that his daughter was just a mass of cells when born at 21 weeks and that she wasn't really alive and not capable of feeling. His daughter's 10 now.. I guess I'll bring it up to here next time we have a company outing..

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I guess 24 weeks involves just the aborting of a mass of cells. Maybe I should tell my boss that his daughter was just a mass of cells when born at 21 weeks and that she wasn't really alive and not capable of feeling. His daughter's 10 now.. I guess I'll bring it up to here next time we have a company outing..

Actually Roe v. Wade says the government can restrict abortion beyond the first trimester, and 21 weeks is well beyond that. That is a strawman.

[spreedom]

Incest and rape say hi. That's why abortions can't be 100% illegal.

[chumdawg]

I'm not sure 21 weeks is enough for a baby to survive. Might want to double-check that.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm not sure 21 weeks is enough for a baby to survive. Might want to double-check that.

The youngest premature birth on record is 21 weeks, 5 days.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm not sure 21 weeks is enough for a baby to survive. Might want to double-check that.

No reason to check that... Was almost 22 weeks. Actually, 22 weeks is sometimes considered the age of viability.. although you also see 23 and 24 weeks referred to as such. But, if you're 21 weeks 6 days.. or 6 and a half days.. not alot of difference between that and 22 weeks.

She was one of the youngest to ever survive. Amazingly enough, she really hasn't had any major issues other than vision related.

[Murphy3]

The Wikipedia page needs to be updated...But I was incorrect. She was 22 weeks.

[Murphy3]

You didn't draw a distinction. You created a justification so that you can sleep better at night.

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

You didn't draw a distinction. You created a justification so that you can sleep better at night.

One can think and feel, and the other can't. You don't see a distinction between an intelligent being and a vegetable? Oh wait you probably voted for Bush and Palin. Never mind...

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by SeanL

One can think and feel, and the other can't. You don't see a distinction between an intelligent being and a vegetable? Oh wait you probably voted for Bush and Palin. Never mind...

Not that I buy the think and feel stuff that your shoveling, but I really don't understand how making the distinction that developing unborn babies (no matter what age) can't think or feel is in any way a justification to make it ok to abort. By that line of thinking, Im guessing you cannot see the distinction that the act of aborting an unborn is nothing more than stealing away their opportunity to becoming a living, breathing, human being? Or are you against protecting that kind of opportunity for an innocent? pro-choice sounds alot like pro-murder to me.

[spreedom]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...&dlvrit=206567

Romney: Obama voters 'believe they are victims'

WASHINGTON -- Mitt Romney told a group of donors in a secretly taped video that 47% of Americans will vote for President Obama because they are "dependent upon government" and "believe that they are victims."

The video was obtained by the magazine Mother Jones, which said it came from a source who shot the video at a campaign fundraiser earlier this year. The magazine obscured all but Romney's head in the video, and did not say when or where it was shot.

In response to a question from a donor, the GOP presidential nominee appeared to write off half of the electorate:

"There are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47% who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ...

"He starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. So he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that's what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Obama campaign manager Jim Messina called the comments "shocking."

"It's hard to serve as president for all Americans when you've disdainfully written off half the nation," Messina said in a statement.

The Romney campaign would not address the video directly, but said the former Massachusetts governor "wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy."

"As the governor has made clear all year, he is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government, including the record number of people who are on food stamps, nearly one in six Americans in poverty, and the 23 million Americans who are struggling to find work," said Romney communications director Gail Gitcho.

[ShaggyDirk]

Originally Posted by spreedom

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...&dlvrit=206567

I was about to start a new thread. Glad I glanced through this one. Here's the video/audio of that quote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnB0NZzl5HA

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Not that I buy the think and feel stuff that your shoveling, but I really don't understand how making the distinction that developing unborn babies (no matter what age) can't think or feel is in any way a justification to make it ok to abort. By that line of thinking, Im guessing you cannot see the distinction that the act of aborting an unborn is nothing more than stealing away their opportunity to becoming a living, breathing, human being? Or are you against protecting that kind of opportunity for an innocent? pro-choice sounds alot like pro-murder to me.

That is exactly the Catholic Church's reasoning for being against contraception.

Until you are a sentient being you don't deserve the same rights as me. Will a 4 week embryo be a sentient being at some point? Possibly. But not yet. Just like everytime you use a condom you are extinguishing POTENTIAL sentience.

By the way have you ever had sex with a girl on the pill?

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by SeanL

That is exactly the Catholic Church's reasoning for being against contraception.

Until you are a sentient being you don't deserve the same rights as me. Will a 4 week embryo be a sentient being at some point? Possibly. But not yet. Just like everytime you use a condom you are extinguishing POTENTIAL sentience.

By the way have you ever had sex with a girl on the pill?

I don't subscribe to the Catholic orthodoxy.

Just so that we are clear, when I stated opportunity below I wasnt talking about opportunity to get pregnant. I was referring to opportunity to continue living and growing into a healthy baby which is why I brought in murder to the discussion. You cant murder sperm or an egg.

But, to continue into your argument, lets build on where you seem to be headed. My question to you is everytime a woman hits her period is she is extinguishing potential life simply because she did not get pregnant before her egg died? And for the guys, every time we have a wet dream are we extinguishing potential life because we are spilling our sperm? And, if a husband doesn't sweet talk his wife and they don't have sex then is that extinguishing potential life? What about those that abuse drugs and trash their bodies are they potentially extinguishing life because they are killing their reproductive potency? I could go on and this could get even more ugly than it is now. I would hope you would agree that this is silly to call this some form of murder.

Is an apple still attached to the apple tree a potential 2nd apple tree? Sure, but it cannot become an apple tree until the seed of that apple is buried and starts to grow. The moment it starts to grow is the moment it becomes an apple tree. However, if the apple is eaten and the seed is thrown in the garbage can is that the same as chopping down an apple tree? Of course not.

Extinguishing the potential to getting pregnant and actually aborting a baby after conception are 2 totally different issues. The first deals with extinguishing potential but the second deals with inevitably extinguishing someone that is already a growing, developing, innocent human. This is what I refer to as murder, unless there is a really good reason to do it such as the mothers life is in danger. You are drawing a line in the sand months after this growing starts based on a non-thinking/non-feeling defense and I am drawing a line where conception and life starts. This brings me to another question about what you wrote prior about equating a baby to a vegatable. Is someone that is in a vegetative state still alive? They can't feel or think either, right?

[Ninkobei]

I can just picture Murph crying his eyes out every time he devours a piece of broccoli or fried chicken. God forbid someone serve him a scrambled egg!

[Murphy3]

I just don't see the liberal disconnect.... So, you'll see your normal liberal woman fighting tooth and nail against the death penalty during the day only to turn around and shove a meat clever up her vagina to try and abort her 23 week old baby before she brushes her teeth to get ready for bed. A couple of days later, she'll birth the child into the a Wal-Mart bag and throw the baby into a dumpster for the birds to peck away at later in the landfill. It just seems a bit off.

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I just don't see the liberal disconnect.... So, you'll see your normal liberal woman fighting tooth and nail against the death penalty during the day only to turn around and shove a meat clever up her vagina to try and abort her 23 week old baby before she brushes her teeth to get ready for bed. A couple of days later, she'll birth the child into the a Wal-Mart bag and throw the baby into a dumpster for the birds to peck away at later in the landfill. It just seems a bit off.

What if you knew that your child was going to be born with Anencephaly, and would only have a week to live?

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I just don't see the liberal disconnect.... So, you'll see your normal liberal woman fighting tooth and nail against the death penalty during the day only to turn around and shove a meat clever up her vagina to try and abort her 23 week old baby before she brushes her teeth to get ready for bed. A couple of days later, she'll birth the child into the a Wal-Mart bag and throw the baby into a dumpster for the birds to peck away at later in the landfill. It just seems a bit off.

You are mischaracterizing the position. Roe v. Wade only protects unrestricted abortions up to 12 weeks (first trimester). Not 23 weeks.

[Murphy3]

Yes, I voted for Bush.. No, I did not vote for Palin. Yes, I voted for Clinton... What's your point?

[Murphy3]

I grew up dirt poor. There are so many people out there that have absolutely no problem with living off of the government. Hell, I have some of those people in my family. I find it absolutely disgusting. I don't have alot of problem with what Romney said. It would be nice if we could actually start addressing the issues instead of patting the "victims" on the head and tell them that "it's all right" and that "we'll take care of you" just so some freaking politician can win an election.

And when I say dirt poor..I'm talking about growing up in a trailer park.. living in a trailer that had huge holes in the floor..duct tape holding the shower together. My situation was different...my dad suffered an injury that left him with little feeling in his arms and legs due to a partially severed spinal cord. But he did what he could and we scraped by. There wasn't alot of the whole "victim" game..whereas our neighbors had as many children as they could to get the max out of state assistance... something like 13 kids and you didn't get any more welfare at that point..

[chumdawg]

I'm quite sure you are right, about there being a number of people who are happy to live off the government dole. I am also entirely convinced that it's nowhere near 47%.

For as smart as Romney is supposed to be, and as good a manager as he is supposed to have been, he is sure running a moronic and inept campaign thus far.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm quite sure you are right, about there being a number of people who are happy to live off the government dole. I am also entirely convinced that it's nowhere near 47%.

For as smart as Romney is supposed to be, and as good a manager as he is supposed to have been, he is sure running a moronic and inept campaign thus far.

It's like Kerry, McCain, and Romney got together 15 years ago and made a wager on who could run the worst campaign ever. It's coming down to the wire.

What strikes me as kind of odd is that I see Mitt to be like the Republican answer to Kerry: he sees a situation that isn't quite working and seems to have an idea about how to fix it, but won't let us in. Which makes me think that neither really had/have a plan at all.

I'm really glad that Mitt won the primary though, because it gives us at least a few more months of Jason Sudeikis on SNL.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by spreedom

It's like Kerry, McCain, and Romney got together 15 years ago and made a wager on who could run the worst campaign ever. It's coming down to the wire.

What strikes me as kind of odd is that I see Mitt to be like the Republican answer to Kerry: he sees a situation that isn't quite working and seems to have an idea about how to fix it, but won't let us in. Which makes me think that neither really had/have a plan at all.

I'm really glad that Mitt won the primary though, because it gives us at least a few more months of Jason Sudeikis on SNL.

Hey, let's not leave Bush '00 out of this race. Strong, strong contender.

The top of the GOP ticket has been barren for most of our lifetimes.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm quite sure you are right, about there being a number of people who are happy to live off the government dole. I am also entirely convinced that it's nowhere near 47%.

For as smart as Romney is supposed to be, and as good a manager as he is supposed to have been, he is sure running a moronic and inept campaign thus far.

What would you have him do Chum?

I am worried that he is not being an effective campaigner, but in his defense he is fighting a severe uphill battle to reach the electorate. He has to fight against free advertisements for the Democrats and BO 24/7 by their corrupt cheerleaders called the MSM which are out to destroy any Republican at any cost. Any gaffe or perceived gaffe by Romney and the Republicans are magnified and excoriated well beyond reason while any mention of the many of BO's shortcomings would nary be heard. No amount of money can overcome that disadvantage. He has to run an almost perfect campaign because the deck is stacked against him. There are some of us that don't care to watch the MSM and find ways to get our info from the internet or radio, but how much of the electorate is willing to do that? It seems to me that most still rely on the MSM for their info. I hope I am wrong.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

What would you have him do Chum?

I am worried that he is not being an effective campaigner, but in his defense he is fighting a severe uphill battle to reach the electorate. He has to fight against free advertisements for the Democrats and BO 24/7 by their corrupt cheerleaders called the MSM which are out to destroy any Republican at any cost. Any gaffe or perceived gaffe by Romney and the Republicans are magnified and excoriated well beyond reason while any mention of the many of BO's shortcomings would nary be heard. No amount of money can overcome that disadvantage. He has to run an almost perfect campaign because the deck is stacked against him. There are some of us that don't care to watch the MSM and find ways to get our info from the internet or radio, but how much of the electorate is willing to do that? It seems to me that most still rely on the MSM for their info. I hope I am wrong.

lots of people kinda sound like boogar eating morons in this thread... but its ok, we as a society will just pat you on the back and blame the liberal medial industrial complex for your shortcomings. Go enjoy a welfare-supplied prime rib with some welfare 40 year old scotch, and call us in the morning.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

lots of people kinda sound like boogar eating morons in this thread... but its ok, we as a society will just pat you on the back and blame the liberal medial industrial complex for your shortcomings. Go enjoy a welfare-supplied prime rib with some welfare 40 year old scotch, and call us in the morning.

Prime Rib isn't my favorite cut.. Not a huge scotch fan either....

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Prime Rib isn't my favorite cut.. Not a huge scotch fan either....

point observed!