Mavs Mid Season Report - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

BGMaverick9 · 01-23-2011, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Aaaah, they still have Wally Z's contract on their books. For a whopping 19mil. Holy effing crap.

So I guess they are in LT this year. Wow. Man they're only a couple mil from getting under the LT line. They must be desperate to make that happen, no?

The gift that keeps giving....
Either way, a TPE for Session gets them even more set up to rebuild.

It totally needs to be a youth movement up there.

Sessions would be a pretty good "get." He's relatively cheap for a point guard. He kind of hovers in that borderline range I think when it comes to the long term effect payroll and talent wise but he's definitely more in line versus SJax.

mac222b · 01-23-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

That's where it gets complicated. If you do the Sessions for TPE, you better trade Butler for something in terms of a future asset or you're having to cut someone else.

Some of it could be posturing but even if the stuff is grandfathered, their payroll is still going to be relatively high and they'll need to structure for the future.

Chandler IS going to be a major priority if not the biggest priority. He's the perfect compliment for Dirk as a big man.

I'm not so sure the league is seeing the writing on the wall, if so...they're seeing their greatest ratings and I would assume ticket sales are doing slightly better or holding steady based on the Heat traveling Circus. Every team has at least one extra game they are selling out now.

Your example of Iggy doesn't work because he doesn't fit the need of the organization two-fold: They need a guy who can create for himself and I think that's a stretch. He also costs a ton of money.

Is there really anyone available that creates for himself better than Iggy?
Devin and Chauncey are extreme long-shots to be made available. KMartin is a fantasy. Prince is affordable but not a creator. Is Danny Granger even available? SJax and GWallace(less so)i'd say are about on par with Iggy in that regard.
But they aren't really much cheaper. Ramon Sessions is relatively cheap and gets to the hoop but he's not a guy you want playing more than 20 or so minutes per game. And he's pretty unremarkable in every other way other than getting to the basket.
I'm just struggling to figure out who will be made available that can create for himself better than an Iggy or SJax that doesn't cost a ton of money...

jthig32 · 01-23-2011, 01:04 AM

Hmm. Now I'm confused. I'm pretty sure Wally Z expired this past season. There was a big story about whether they would trade him or take the salary savings.

Must look into this further.

BGMaverick9 · 01-23-2011, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Is there really anyone available that creates for himself better than Iggy?
Devin and Chauncey are extreme long-shots to be made available. KMartin is a fantasy. Prince is affordable but not a creator. Is Danny Granger even available? SJax and GWallace(less so)i'd say are about on par with Iggy in that regard.
But they aren't really much cheaper. Ramon Sessions is relatively cheap and gets to the hoop but he's not a guy you want playing more than 20 or so minutes per game. And he's pretty unremarkable in every other way other than getting to the basket.
I'm just struggling to figure out who will be made available that can create for himself better than an Iggy or SJax that doesn't cost a ton of money...

That's the rub, the options aren't great.
-Granger isn't going anywhere in the near future.
-They'd much rather have Prince over Jackson just for money aspects alone and they'd have control on what to do next.
-If Iggy is that great, they have to be sure he can be a "can't miss" like option for that price range.

BGMaverick9 · 01-23-2011, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Hmm. Now I'm confused. I'm pretty sure Wally Z expired this past season. There was a big story about whether they would trade him or take the salary savings.

Must look into this further.

http://www.shamsports.com/whatthedeuce.htm

I'm thinking the bold is the situation.

Quote:

Your team's free agents have what is called a "cap hold." This is an amount of money that is charged to your team's salary cap number, even though the player isn't under contract. This is a deliberate ploy that exists to close a loophole; if cap holds didn't exist, it's theoretically possible for a team to have its entire roster become free agents at the same time, have their entire cap to spend on other team's free agents, and then use Bird rights to re-sign their own ones afterwards. And that would be disingenuous. This way, your free agents eat into your cap room, forcing you to prioritise a bit better. And the players below have cap holds (also known as "free agent amounts") that have not yet been renounced, making them technically interesting. Technically.

If you waive a player, they are automatically renounced, and so will not have a cap hold. If a player signs with another NBA team, they also no longer have a cap hold to their former team. And if a player retires (by which I mean he properly retires, sending official retirement paperwork to league and everything, and not just informally saying that they've retired), then their free agent amount is removed too. However, players often don't formally retire until they're eligible for their NBA pension, and the reason for that (other than laziness) is that many of them still have cap holds with NBA teams, which means that they can still be incorporated into sign and trades as salary filler for trades. It would be an extremely impossible thing to imagine had it not already happened: at the 2007 trade deadline, Aaron McKie and Keith Van Horn were both signed and traded to complete deals while being unofficially retired, earning them 7 figures worth of free cheddar. And all they had to do was not file the retirement paperwork. It's implausible, but it happens. (Similarly, if a player's contract with an NBA team expires without him going through waivers, and he then signs with a non-NBA team, he will continue to have a cap hold until he's renounced.)

jthig32 · 01-23-2011, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

http://www.shamsports.com/whatthedeuce.htm

I'm thinking the bold is the situation.

Yeah, you're right. That's just a cap hold, not a salary slot.

So no, they're not in the LT. I'm fairly confident of that.

BGMaverick9 · 01-23-2011, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah, you're right. That's just a cap hold, not a salary slot.

So no, they're not in the LT. I'm fairly confident of that.

Either way...if the Mavs wanted Sessions, I'm sure he could be had on the cheap.

They are a LOOOOONG way from resembling an NBA team, might as well stockpile assets and reduce payroll.

mac222b · 01-23-2011, 01:24 AM

Sessions was also playing really well for them last 4 games: 15/6 assists, 21/9 and 1 turnover in 31mins, 19/8/5to's in 38mins. and 22/4 and 14/16! from the FT line in just 34 minutes. That's absolutely Maggette-esque

Then he went out with an abdominal strain.
This leads me to believe they'd want more than just savings for him.

BGMaverick9 · 01-23-2011, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Sessions was also playing really well for them last 4 games: 15/6 assists, 21/9 and 1 turnover in 31mins, 19/8/5to's in 38mins. and 22/4 and 14/16! from the FT line in just 34 minutes. That's absolutely Maggette-esque

Then he went out with an abdominal strain.
This leads me to believe they'd want more than just savings for him.

Playing well leads you to think they'll look for more than savings? Salary dumps happen plenty of times.

A player like Sessions won't get them dramatically better right now and that kind of player won't get them a player back that can make them better right now, they are several years away. Reduce the payroll and get a pick or an exception to work on for the future.

mac222b · 01-23-2011, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Playing well leads you to think they'll look for more than savings? Salary dumps happen plenty of times.

A player like Sessions won't get them dramatically better right now and that kind of player won't get them a player back that can make them better right now, they are several years away. Reduce the payroll and get a pick or an exception to work on for the future.

Possibly. I think they may actually say he's been playing well, we're gonna need a little more. I think that's conceivable. Rip Hamilton being on the Pistons bench isn't helping his value. If he put together a stretch of good games... it probably still wouldn't

but you get my point.

mac222b · 01-23-2011, 01:50 AM

I think in fact that Sessions becomes a more desirable back-up point than Udrih now that we have Peja to help spread the floor. Sessions isn't much of a 3point shooter, to put it mildly, but that seems less of a need now. He's also cheaper than Udrih and can conceivably be gotten for a TE.
If Chauncey and Devin aren't going to be available i'd say it's a no- brainer.

mavs777 · 01-23-2011, 02:09 AM

Its pretty amazing Sessions is just 24 is it just me or does it seem he has been in the league a lot longer?

Underdog · 01-23-2011, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Its pretty amazing Sessions is just 24 is it just me or does it seem he has been in the league a lot longer?

3 teams in 4 seasons can make it look longer than it is...

(oh, and I'd LOVE to have Sessions on this team - much better than Barea!)

Luc · 01-23-2011, 09:01 AM

How do you see the season ending?

First round if we don't sort SF out.

spreedom · 01-23-2011, 02:14 PM

What is the biggest surprise, and the biggest disappointment, so far? Chandler and Haywood.
One word that best describes the season so far. Tumultuous.
Favorite game this year? Nov 26th vs Spurs, Jan 19 vs Lakers.
Biggest strength and weakness of the Mavericks going forward? Strength is our defense, weakness is consistent second scoring option that can create his own shot.
Who or What do you want to watch the most headed forwards? Want to see DeShawn continue lighting it up from downtown, also hoping for a trade for Jax/Crash/Iggy/Tayshaun.
How do you see the season ending? First-round loss if no trades, WCF if good wingman acquired.

Regarding getting Ramon Sessions, I don't think the Cavs would be as deperate to trade him/his contract as you might think. Yes, salary dumps do happen, but rarely involving cheap players that are close to their primes. I could see us possibly using a TE in combination with a future first-rounder (and really, that should be the going market for a top backup PG: cap space and a mid-late first), but sending them nothing and hoping to get a significant backup is probably not going to happen.

BGMaverick9 · 01-23-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Regarding getting Ramon Sessions, I don't think the Cavs would be as deperate to trade him/his contract as you might think. Yes, salary dumps do happen, but rarely involving cheap players that are close to their primes. I could see us possibly using a TE in combination with a future first-rounder (and really, that should be the going market for a top backup PG: cap space and a mid-late first), but sending them nothing and hoping to get a significant backup is probably not going to happen.

Sessions at his prime is going to do what exactly for the Cavaliers?
What you suggested is essentially a salary dump lol

They're just going to want picks, money or something to slowly build off of for the future.

spreedom · 01-23-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Sessions at his prime is going to do what exactly for the Cavaliers?
What you suggested is essentially a salary dump lol

They're just going to want picks, money or something to slowly build off of for the future.

Yep, Sessions' fault that the team stinks.

Honestly, he probably has more trade value than anyone else on that team considering his age, skillset, and contract (unless you are a believer that JJ Hickson is suddenly going to get it with a different team). There is a HUGE difference between trading for a TPE only (that would expire this coming offseason, as the Cavs would then be under the cap) or getting a TPE/1st rounder. Even IF they stayed over the cap and had what would be a $4M TPE, what player is out there that they could possibly get without also trading their own first-rounder? Sessions is a huge bargain at ~$4M per, and I am pretty confident that the Cavs recognize that.

Other than simply dumping salary (which they don't need to do at ~$6M under the cap), what would the Cavs' incentive be to trade him? If they would be trading anyone, it would be the high-priced guys they have like Jamison and Mo Williams. I don't see any way they trade Sessions for money reasons unless he is a throw-in with a larger salaried player or if they're going much younger (i.e. prospect or pick).