PGT: JJB bends over Baron and does mean things.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Around the horn is freaking out about Haywood's foul. wtf? It wasn't even that hard.

lol "you aren't just suppose to grab the guy" uhh.. ya you are. Don't give him the and-1. That's basketball 101.

That foul is arguably the best thing Haywood has done all season as far as I'm concerned. That's the kinda tough, don't back down play that earns a tough reputation and something the Mavs could always use. The outside media always thinks we're soft yet hard fouls are no-no? Typical.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That foul is arguably the best thing Haywood has done all season as far as I'm concerned. That's the kinda tough, don't back down play that earns a tough reputation and something the Mavs could always use. The outside media always thinks we're soft yet hard fouls are no-no? Typical.

Agreed, his time to shine. When the playoffs start you it's a capital PHYSICAL, and you know what else, a shot like that to a Durant, Kobe, Parker or Ginobili, may change the tide of a series. Remember Spurs-suns where Horry just laid out Nash when the game was all but over? Suns got a couple bench leaving suspensions and that changed the series for the Spurs. Even if Haywood gets suspended for throwing Parker into the stantion, we still throw Ian out there at the 5.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Around the horn is freaking out about Haywood's foul. wtf? It wasn't even that hard.

lol "you aren't just suppose to grab the guy" uhh.. ya you are. Don't give him the and-1. That's basketball 101.

Boo frickin' who. Hope wood does it once a month and then once a game in the playoffs.

Around the horn...f'em...

I am quite sure Blake was saying WTF JUST HAPPENED!!! Get used to it kid. You want to go flying in there jacking up stuff all over someones head..you are going to get your ass laid out a time or two. This ain't college brotha'...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Boo frickin' who. Hope wood does it once a month and then once a game in the playoffs.

Around the horn...f'em...

I am quite sure Blake was saying WTF JUST HAPPENED!!! Get used to it kid. You want to go flying in there jacking up stuff all over someones head..you are going to get your ass laid out a time or two. This ain't college brotha'...

This.

Welcome to the big-boy league, sonny!

[xrobx]

if someone did this to dirk and he hurt his elbow, i'm sure you'd all be singing a different tune

[mavs777]

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba...ory?id=6061356

DALLAS -- Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle felt no need for elaboration or explanation after his exchange of expletives and dagger stares with Clippers guard Baron Davis.

"I'm not going to talk about that," Carlisle said after the Mavs' emotionally charged 112-105 win over the Clippers. "It was ... whatever."

Mavs' J.J. Barea had another word to describe the incident that resulted in double technical fouls: "Awesome."

It began when the pesky Barea baited Davis into an offensive foul near midcourt with 8:40 remaining in the fourth quarter and momentum firmly in the Mavs' grasp. Barea sensed Davis was frustrated that he didn't get a call the previous possession, felt him push off and responded by getting breath-smelling close to Davis' bearded grill.

As intended, Davis didn't appreciate that and wildly swung his elbow. Barea hit the hardwood like he'd been run over by a tank -- or at least Blake Griffin -- and was angrily accused by Davis of flopping. Barea, by the way, didn't exactly deny that charge after the game.

"I didn't have to go down, but when you get hit like that, you go down," Barea said with a grin. "It's basketball."

Things really got heated during the ensuing timeout. Carlisle wouldn't provide any details, but Davis offered his unique perspective on the exchange.

"He basically thought I took a cheap shot on Barea," Davis said, according to the Los Angeles Times. "Barea was flopping the whole night and he flopped on that play. So when Carlisle looked at me, 'That was a dirty play.'

"I was like, 'No it wasn't. This dude is flopping.' I guess he felt like he was protecting his player. So I told him to ... "


Davis acknowledged that he sprinkled in some colorful language as well. Carlisle certainly didn't back down, appearing ready to brawl with the brawny point guard, reflecting the Mavs' intensity during their defensively dominant second half.

"He started cussing me out," Davis said. "I told him, 'Go have some lunch.'"

Barea wasn't the only Mav who appreciated Carlisle's actions.

"I've got his back," big man Tyson Chandler said. "He's all right."

It didn't escalate past that point, but the coach's intensity clearly inspired the Mavs. They responded with a 10-0 run out of the break to turn a tight game into a blowout.

"Man, that's it. Guys see it and we get fired up from it," Jason Terry said. "This team has been looking for some personality. When it comes from your head coach, that's big. You know he has your back, but that's just another example of it."

Considering Carlisle's reputation for having a robotic personality and the rarity of coach-opposing player scraps, the outburst came as a pretty big surprise. At least to outsiders.

"Everybody thinks Rick is this calm-demeanor guy, no emotion," Terry said. "He shows tons of emotion and tonight was an example of that."

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I said something about it in the GDT, but I remain very concerned about our rebounding. Sometimes it's the zone thing, but a lot of times that has nothing to do with it. What concerns me the most is frequent lack of activity from our bigs (except Tyson) when they are standing under the basket in proper position with the ball in the air. We have anywhere from 2 to probably 8 defensive rebounds a game that we absolutely should collect based on court positioning and size, but our guy just will stand there and wait for it.

The Clippers have a super-athletic frontline, so it's not too surprising to see Griff and Jordan sneak in for some rebounds, but it's been a season-long issue. I don't expect our guys to out-athlete these young teams out of the gym, but I want more consistency on relatively routine rebounds.

The optimist in me says this will improve in the playoffs because Dirk always kicks up his rebounding by at least 2 per game in the playoffs, but we got pretty badly outrebounded last year by the Spurs IIRC, so I dunno.

I've seen it too and I think it has to do with two things

1) The obvious issue is the zone defense which always kills us because we end up with only one guy in the middle, but that is often a scapegoat. Its part of the problem but not all of it

2) Way more of our offense than I'm comfortable with is dependent on primary/secondary breaks so I see the team getting back on offense before they've secured the defensive boards. What is encouraging is that when the team pounds it inside and really pushes for boards (rebounds as a team), we often get them (see the 4th quarter of the Clips). What is concerning is when we do secure a board or we get the ball inbounds after a score and our offense goes to hell when the other team sets up their defense. We often have no one who can create offense for the team and scramble a defense.

3) Chandler is a great little rebounder but he does not have the width to really box out that well. He needs at least 1 other player to help him secure the close boards (see 1 and 2)

So I think as Dirk gets back into his groove, we'll see an improvement in our defense leading to more boards and an improved faith in our halfcourt game so the team can focus on rebounding regardless of whether or not it costs them a chance to run. Roddy's ability to penetrate can help too, but at this point I'm hesitantly optimistic

[FINtastic]

The zone gets way too much flack for our rebounding troubles. It may not help things, but we're not a bad rebounding team because the of zone. We're much worse at offensive rebounding than we are at defensive rebounding so I think it's inaccurate to say that our defensive scheme is having a big impact on our rebounding. We just simply don't play many good rebounders.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by xrobx

if someone did this to dirk and he hurt his elbow, i'm sure you'd all be singing a different tune

Did what exactly? Fouled him hard to prevent an And 1? Every NBA game isn't Blake Griffin's personal highlight reel resume builder. Im surprised this hasn't happened more or sooner. It's not like someone took his legs out or did a helicopter clothesline on him. Shoot, i've seen much worse in pick-up games on many an occasion. You wanna show people up and windmill dunk and such you've gotta be prepared to be taken down a notch. This ain't the Big 12. I like that Griffin plays hard and all out but he's got to learn to play smarter. An NBA season is not a sprint, it's a marathon. He needs to develop a face-up game. His go-to move can't always be that 360 spin move into the lane. Teams'll get wise. I wonder if we'll see more teams get physical with him and put a bigger guy on him from here on out. Props to Haywood. He helped set the tone for last night's win.

[BUMP]

I'm a huge Griffin fan, but there's no way anybody can complain about that foul on Haywood. He literally slapped him on the arm and then Griffin fell wildly to the ground.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BUMP

I'm a huge Griffin fan, but there's no way anybody can complain about that foul on Haywood. He literally slapped him on the arm and then Griffin fell wildly to the ground.

Naw. People can complain just like we did when it happens to Dirk and it has tons of times. Whats the point of complaining tho? Haywood got a flagrant and those cost some $. Chit happens and ya get over it. I don't think it shold have been a flagrant, but would I want one thrown if it happened to Dirk!

[BUMP]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Naw. People can complain just like we did when it happens to Dirk and it has tons of times. Whats the point of complaining tho? Haywood got a flagrant and those cost some $. Chit happens and ya get over it. I don't think it shold have been a flagrant, but would I want one thrown if it happened to Dirk!

It's just one of those things where you land the wrong way. Kind of like when Dirk hurt his knee against the Thunder. He barely got touched and suffered a 3 week injury yet none of us were out for blood for the guy that hit him

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by xrobx

if someone did this to dirk and he hurt his elbow, i'm sure you'd all be singing a different tune

Doubt it actually. First you would be assuming that dirk would "as wood said" continue to try and power his way up to the basket through a hard foul. If you are going to do that, you can't be crying if someone doesn't allow you to do it.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BUMP

It's just one of those things where you land the wrong way. Kind of like when Dirk hurt his knee against the Thunder. He barely got touched and suffered a 3 week injury yet none of us were out for blood for the guy that hit him

Naw it was completely different. No one touched Dirk, he landed wrong all on his own. There was no one who hit him or grabbed him, which is why no one was out for blood. Haywood grabbed Griffin with both hands. Everyone would want a flagrant if that happened to Dirk including me, bottom line.

[dude1394]

Oh I have no problem with it being called a flagrant foul...but I also have no problem with doing what you have to do to not let a guy make a shot.

It's sort of like when Stackhouse got thrown out of the game for fouling shaq. It was called a flagrant 2, but I didn't have a problem with it really.

Or when Dirk got tossed for throwing down AK47...It wasn't dirks intention to do so but it happened.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Naw it was completely different. No one touched Dirk, he landed wrong all on his own. There was no one who hit him or grabbed him, which is why no one was out for blood. Haywood grabbed Griffin with both hands. Everyone would want a flagrant if that happened to Dirk including me, bottom line.

He never even got both hands on Griffin at once. Haywood tried to wrap up Griffin like he would any other big dude in the NBA, only, Griffin isn't any other big dude, and got halfway away before Haywood could finish the wrap-up.

Haywood tried to wrap him up near the waist, which you see happen all the time to prevent guys from getting an easy basket. Griffin is so big, strong, and quick, that by the time Haywood got his left arm to Griffin, his right arm was already off of Griffin's waist b/c Griffin had moved two feet closer to the rim in .00002 seconds. So Haywood's left arm, once it finally got to Griffin, got him on the forearm and grabbed for a split second. In that same split second, Griffin had already started to leave the floor under his own power because he's so big, strong and quick.

Haywood grabbed the arm and let go of the arm very quickly. I honestly think it's one of those flagrants that's only a flagrant because of the way the other player fell.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Around the horn is freaking out about Haywood's foul. wtf? It wasn't even that hard.

Around The Horn is a joke.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

The zone gets way too much flack for our rebounding troubles. It may not help things, but we're not a bad rebounding team because the of zone. We're much worse at offensive rebounding than we are at defensive rebounding so I think it's inaccurate to say that our defensive scheme is having a big impact on our rebounding. We just simply don't play many good rebounders.

I agree with the first part entirely. The second part, I think our guys are better natural rebounders than the production would indicate. We don't have the best rebounding personnel in the league, but we should be very serviceable. I think real problem is that they often need to be more active and aggressive about collecting the ball (again, except Tyson, who is very active 95% of the time).

I mean, there is no excuse for not getting a rebound when we have three guys 6'7" and above standing right under the basket, with only one opposing player near them. But it's happened time and time again this season.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

He never even got both hands on Griffin at once. Haywood tried to wrap up Griffin like he would any other big dude in the NBA, only, Griffin isn't any other big dude, and got halfway away before Haywood could finish the wrap-up.

Haywood tried to wrap him up near the waist, which you see happen all the time to prevent guys from getting an easy basket. Griffin is so big, strong, and quick, that by the time Haywood got his left arm to Griffin, his right arm was already off of Griffin's waist b/c Griffin had moved two feet closer to the rim in .00002 seconds. So Haywood's left arm, once it finally got to Griffin, got him on the forearm and grabbed for a split second. In that same split second, Griffin had already started to leave the floor under his own power because he's so big, strong and quick.

Haywood grabbed the arm and let go of the arm very quickly. I honestly think it's one of those flagrants that's only a flagrant because of the way the other player fell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDO0l1M1lV0

Well he kinda did get two hands on him fwiw. First off he hits him across the face at :37 secs and has two hands on him shortly after. Now he didn't blatantly grab him with two hands and fling him down as it looked in regular speed but surely you aren't arguing that we wouldn't want a flagrant called if it were ANYONE doing that to Dirk?!

I agree with your overall point that it looked worse because of the fall/landing. I can see how Haywood has a legit argument especially seen in slow motion that he didn't mean for it to end up the way it did. I just think this situation calls for a little common sense and fairness. Yeah, he isn't wearing a Mav uni, isn't Dirk and isn't our kid but obviously that was at the very least questionable and I'm ok with the call. Can't say I wouldn't have called it the same.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Oh I have no problem with it being called a flagrant foul...but I also have no problem with doing what you have to do to not let a guy make a shot.

It's sort of like when Stackhouse got thrown out of the game for fouling shaq. It was called a flagrant 2, but I didn't have a problem with it really.

Or when Dirk got tossed for throwing down AK47...It wasn't dirks intention to do so but it happened.

gree

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

Around The Horn is a joke.

are you trying to say that they are sexually aroused by Griffin or that they cry too much?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

are you trying to say that they are sexually aroused by Griffin or that they cry too much?

+rep

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Naw. People can complain just like we did when it happens to Dirk and it has tons of times. Whats the point of complaining tho? Haywood got a flagrant and those cost some $. Chit happens and ya get over it. I don't think it shold have been a flagrant, but would I want one thrown if it happened to Dirk!

Actually, Dirk did get bumped on that play. That's why it was an and 1, if you recall. Obviously nothing serious, but still.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDO0l1M1lV0

Well he kinda did get two hands on him fwiw. First off he hits him across the face at :37 secs and has two hands on him shortly after. Now he didn't blatantly grab him with two hands and fling him down as it looked in regular speed but surely you aren't arguing that we wouldn't want a flagrant called if it were ANYONE doing that to Dirk?!

I agree with your overall point that it looked worse because of the fall/landing. I can see how Haywood has a legit argument especially seen in slow motion that he didn't mean for it to end up the way it did. I just think this situation calls for a little common sense and fairness. Yeah, he isn't wearing a Mav uni, isn't Dirk and isn't our kid but obviously that was at the very least questionable and I'm ok with the call. Can't say I wouldn't have called it the same.

Well, that's true.. Haywood's right hand on Griffin's hip slid back to Griffin's back as the left hand got ahold of the arm. By that time, the right hand was making contact but Griffin was moving away - Haywood didn't have ahold of him with both hands at any point. But my point was, he was attempting to get him around the waist and didn't get there in time b/c Griffin is such a beast. Guys get wrapped up around the arms/waist/chest under the basket all the time and it's not a flagrant.

I think if it had happened to Dirk, there's a chance it's not called for a flagrant, but there's a chance that it is. I'm good either way. I don't necessarily agree with it as a Flagrant, but it's consistent with the rules. I just think in this case, where a guy was grounded and had full body control, decided to go up and spin as contact was made, and came down awkwardly, isn't the same thing as a guy getting fouled away from the ball while in the air, where he's got less body control.



It's not something to get all riled about if you're a LAC fan, or if it happened to Dirk, if you're a Dirk fan. It was an awkward ending to a hard foul with clean intent. Griffin's athleticism and quickness will get him into that position more often than other guys his size, so it's going to look worse. If it happened to Roddy, I bet it wouldn't be called a Flagrant, because he weighs 175 dripping wet. The attitude is, "oh, well, he's little, anything can bring him down." Nobody's considering the amount of power and strength that Griffin has and where that momentum is going to carry him if someone grabs his arm for a tiny split second when he's spinning/jumping and slightly out of control.

So no, I wouldn't get too upset if it happened to Dirk, with or without the Flagrant call, being able to recognize what the defensive player intended to do. If there was no Flagrant call, I'd probably say, "if that happens to any other star in this league, it's a Flagrant one." Because we all find ourselves saying that with Dirk, right? But I can also recognize it's not a malicious move, just a hard foul.

And that's my fair/common sense analysis.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

are you trying to say that they are sexually aroused by Griffin or that they cry too much?

Definitely both.