PGT: Dallas vs. Detroit = Big steaming pile of WTF

[CadBane]

We very well could have the worst offensive backcourt in the NBA right now with Kidd/Terry (or DeShawn...as much as I like him).

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by CadBane

We very well could have the worst offensive backcourt in the NBA right now with Kidd/Terry (or DeShawn...as much as I like him).

cleveland by a mile

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by Rick41

I'm guessing we were meant to kick ass in the 00's decade. Now that the year turned to '11, we suck again!

Seriously. Were the Mavs .500 for 4 hours or 8 hours?


Someone... tell.... me... whyyy...

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by mavs777

cleveland by a mile

Not so sure about that.

Manny Harris: 6 PPG on 37/37 shooting (But he only recently became starter, only 18 MPG)
Mo Williams: 14 PPG on 39/27 shooting

Kidd: 8 PPG on 34/32 shooting
15 PPG on 43/33 shooting

Certainly not by a mile. And the Cavs are probably it. That's sad.

[sefant77]

[bernardos70]

Dirk with 32 points in 31 minutes. Clearly Carlisle only has to play Dirk 48 minutes for is to win. But Carlisle is a dumbass and only played Dirk 31 minutes. Fire Carlisle!

[Heavy Jon]

I didn't realize that the playoffs had already begun?!
Well at least we won the game against the Cavs.
This decade change definitely sucks big time, but maybe things can only go up from now on, right??

[Bayliss]

The playoffs haven't started but the Mavs need to start winning games or they may not even make the playoffs. New Orleans is now tied with them for 6th. And Portland (the 8th place team) is only like 3-4 games behind the Mavs.

[alexamenos]

sucks

[dude1394]

Well at least we're off the RC's an idiot and should be playing dojo, ajinca, mahinmi....now it's down to our backcourt is a d-league backcourt and we're doomed unless we replace the pg,sg and sf..and the backup pg, sg and sf...

I somehow thought mahinmi might be the saviour at the center position...but I guess not. Of course neither was haywood...It appeared most of the time they didn't know where they were supposed to be and who they were supposed to be covering.

[dude1394]

I think this dude has it about right..
First they were waiting on dirk, now they are waiting on caronII or they are waiting on roddy. Need to lace 'em up and get nasty out there.

http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1040373.html

Same result.
*Despite the return of Dirk, watching these Mavs leaves one with the feeling that they seem to be waiting on something … but what?
*Beyond all of the bruising numbers, there’s something more demanding to be seen. This is a team that appears to be lost. You can put your finger on a hundred small splinters decorating the growing abrasion, but can’t define the wound as a whole.
Something is missing. Something is askew. The gears aren’t lining up with each other, and the sound of their grinding is overcoming all on the court.
There’s been no finger-pointing. Players have said the right things. The coach has pulled at every thread available to him … and “rock bottom,” as Dirk labeled their place after the Memphis game, continues to be redefined.
With the Lakers looming for a Wednesday matchup, has “rock bottom” been reached, or will there be a little further to dig?
Or, is there the perfect opportunity to right the ship in one grand statement?
*It’s frustrating. It’s confounding. It will leave you with anger or a dismissing shrug of the shoulders.
But, thanks to their excellent start, this team has not thrown away a season. In an instant, all the things that have spun out of control and into the red can change. Fear is justified among the fans and media, but cannot be tolerated within the team.
What are they waiting for?
It’s time to stop waiting, and claw their way out of the hole they now find themselves in.
Easier said than done, but it must be done. No one’s going to hand them their confidence back. They must find and feed it on their own.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

It's more than just heart though. There is little offense to be had. You get almost no offensive production from the pg/sf/c positions in a game and you're going to lose. Plain and simple. Show up or shut up.

[JHT]

More people need to be talking about how terrible Kidd is.

When the entire team is this completely lost and out of sync on the court, I really think we need to be looking a lot harder at him. It's not just his complete lack of scoring that's the problem.

Remember this team is built around the notion that Kidd will control the offense. If the offense is horrible, then... why aren't we blaming Kidd?

Seriously, did you watch his passing tonight? Terrible. Even the most basic passes were terrible.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by JHT

More people need to be talking about how terrible Kidd is.

When the entire team is this completely lost and out of sync on the court, I really think we need to be looking a lot harder at him. It's not just his complete lack of scoring that's the problem.

Remember this team is built around the notion that Kidd will control the offense. If the offense is horrible, then... why aren't we blaming Kidd?

Seriously, did you watch his passing tonight? Terrible. Even the most basic passes were terrible.

Yea...I'm sure that cubes/donnie are looking at this message board for insight. The same way this message board has been saying to blow it up for 4 years or so. The offense has been horrible since dirk/caron went out...duh...

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by JHT

More people need to be talking about how terrible Kidd is.

When the entire team is this completely lost and out of sync on the court, I really think we need to be looking a lot harder at him. It's not just his complete lack of scoring that's the problem.

Remember this team is built around the notion that Kidd will control the offense. If the offense is horrible, then... why aren't we blaming Kidd?

Seriously, did you watch his passing tonight? Terrible. Even the most basic passes were terrible.

Troll post

[bernardos70]

We're in a funk, that is obvious. With that said, when we get to full strength (-caron, obviously) we'll be fine and this overreaction will look dumb.

[JHT]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Troll post

Blind fanboy post.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by JHT

More people need to be talking about how terrible Kidd is.

When the entire team is this completely lost and out of sync on the court, I really think we need to be looking a lot harder at him. It's not just his complete lack of scoring that's the problem.

Remember this team is built around the notion that Kidd will control the offense. If the offense is horrible, then... why aren't we blaming Kidd?

Seriously, did you watch his passing tonight? Terrible. Even the most basic passes were terrible.

Yeah, those 13 assists all happened completely by accident...

I mean, Kidd's shooting and focus have been lacking, but let's not pretend that he's the problem with this team right now. The Mavs are currently short on firepower and lacking confidence - it's the whole team, not just one guy...

[BGMaverick9]

Caron's injury might have been a much more significant issue than we thought. He obviously had a dramatic impact on those guys in the locker and it really put things out of whack on the floor.

Everyone else has to play 1-2 notches better than they were and take on a bigger responsibility, we clearly see what the result is when that doesn't happen. You've got guys like Stevenson having to take on more minutes, guys like Cardinal, Ajinca and Mahinmi having to play minutes you hardly expected were there for them.

Historically, this team has suffered from the sick puppy syndrome. Cuban and Donnie are clearly going to have to work on something to fix the landscape. You just have to hope that that it all clicks around April.

Whether you want to call today an audition or not...Prince did well enough for me. I know there are people in the organization that do like him and will continue to monitor their situation. And those Charlotte guys are going to be dangling waiting to be taken.

The Melo-drama HAS to get done by the first or second week of Feb, it absolutely has to. One way or another, just finish it. Teams are just waiting for that to be done so everything can start to fall into place.

I'm of the mindset that if you've got to overpay in draft picks, then so be it. The draft picks over the next four years aren't dramatically going to go into the teens or anything (you could always lottery protect them if that makes you sleep better at night). Cuban has shown, you just have to find the right team and give them $3 million and you can buy back in.

[dude1394]

Ugh did the mavs really give up 62 points in the second half...I thought I saw our interior defense go to the crapper...marion looked like he wasn't interested either. Yuck...

Now that the dirkster has gotten that game out of his system, hopefully he can also provide something inside...And hopefully he and tyson being on the same page can help... It won't be easy that's for dang sure..

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Now that the dirkster has gotten that game out of his system, hopefully he can also provide something inside...

?

Didn't he do most of his stuff very early in the game come from banging in the post and getting to the line?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Caron's injury might have been a much more significant issue than we thought. He obviously had a dramatic impact on those guys in the locker and it really put things out of whack on the floor.

Everyone else has to play 1-2 notches better than they were and take on a bigger responsibility, we clearly see what the result is when that doesn't happen. You've got guys like Stevenson having to take on more minutes, guys like Cardinal, Ajinca and Mahinmi having to play minutes you hardly expected were there for them.

Historically, this team has suffered from the sick puppy syndrome. Cuban and Donnie are clearly going to have to work on something to fix the landscape. You just have to hope that that it all clicks around April.

Whether you want to call today an audition or not...Prince did well enough for me. I know there are people in the organization that do like him and will continue to monitor their situation. And those Charlotte guys are going to be dangling waiting to be taken.

The Melo-drama HAS to get done by the first or second week of Feb, it absolutely has to. One way or another, just finish it. Teams are just waiting for that to be done so everything can start to fall into place.

I'm of the mindset that if you've got to overpay in draft picks, then so be it. The draft picks over the next four years aren't dramatically going to go into the teens or anything (you could always lottery protect them if that makes you sleep better at night). Cuban has shown, you just have to find the right team and give them $3 million and you can buy back in.

Yep, Prince did look impressive. He had a good game. I just hope he is our fall back and not the 1st or 2nd target. Might be a better idea to get someone who you can throw the ball to and say please, get us something. Prince falls down lower on that list imo. Martin is my first choice, Jax probably my second. I really like that with Martin he has the ability to make people wonder if he is the 1st or 2nd option around here at times and even though I like Jax game it's not quite on that level.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yep, Prince did look impressive. He had a good game. I just hope he is our fall back and not the 1st or 2nd target. Might be a better idea to get someone who you can throw the ball to and say please, get us something. Prince falls down lower on that list imo. Martin is my first choice, Jax probably my second. I really like that with Martin he has the ability to make people wonder if he is the 1st or 2nd option around here at times and even though I like Jax game it's not quite on that level.

Prince looked to me like a better scorer than marion (lot better actuallly). I'm not so sure he's the guy either...I know it's really,really hard to keep your powder dry, but the wrong guy won't help enough. It will be enough just to get you close and that's pretty damn frustrating.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

?

Didn't he do most of his stuff very early in the game come from banging in the post and getting to the line?

Ah...I should have been more explicit. I was thinking defensively. He seemed to shy away from mixing it up in there.. He's got to not be a defensive minus, they need him to be better there.

Offensively he was fine.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Prince looked to me like a better scorer than marion (lot better actuallly). I'm not so sure he's the guy either...I know it's really,really hard to keep your powder dry, but the wrong guy won't help enough. It will be enough just to get you close and that's pretty damn frustrating.

Definitely seems more potent offensively than Marion, probably because of his range and better handles. He's crafty around the bucket and midrange like Marion too. I think Prince can help but we have a lot of "helpers" right now around Dirk. They need to lighten his load(meant in all ways possible :-) )This is really becoming painfully obvious.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yep, Prince did look impressive. He had a good game. I just hope he is our fall back and not the 1st or 2nd target. Might be a better idea to get someone who you can throw the ball to and say please, get us something. Prince falls down lower on that list imo. Martin is my first choice, Jax probably my second. I really like that with Martin he has the ability to make people wonder if he is the 1st or 2nd option around here at times and even though I like Jax game it's not quite on that level.

Unless something has dramatically changed over the weekend, I don't see Houston and Dallas working something out. Houston doesn't want to do Dallas any favors unless they get a major package sent their way that is over the top.

I think based on availability, Prince could be a top option but it's totally dependent on Charlotte and biting the bullet on Jackson. I was impressed with Prince's game and getting into the lane with rhythm...might not help the case though since he basically had air defending him. Charlotte is going to barter with Dallas, they'll try to bend them over. Again, I'm willing to throw picks to get a deal done.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Ah...I should have been more explicit. I was thinking defensively. He seemed to shy away from mixing it up in there.. He's got to not be a defensive minus, they need him to be better there.

Offensively he was fine.

Gotcha, makes sense. I think that should come along the way. He's an offensive player first, so that's got to get checked out and rolling and maintain the confidence in his knee and the other end of the floor should come back.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Ah...I should have been more explicit. I was thinking defensively. He seemed to shy away from mixing it up in there.. He's got to not be a defensive minus, they need him to be better there.

Offensively he was fine.

yeah, surely it's a knee thing. He had no lift to contest shots or go strong for rebounds. Didn't look to me like he was even interested in trying and I don't know that I blame him for that. More healing and we won't see those issues.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Unless something has dramatically changed over the weekend, I don't see Houston and Dallas working something out. Houston doesn't want to do Dallas any favors unless they get a major package sent their way that is over the top.

I think based on availability, Prince could be a top option but it's totally dependent on Charlotte and biting the bullet on Jackson. I was impressed with Prince's game and getting into the lane with rhythm...might not help the case though since he basically had air defending him. Charlotte is going to barter with Dallas, they'll try to bend them over. Again, I'm willing to throw picks to get a deal done.

What is considered over the top to you might not be to me . But seriously, what do you think? They want Roddy in that package with Caron? ok. what else? 1st rounder? Ok

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What is considered over the top to you might not be to me . But seriously, what do you think? They want Roddy in that package with Caron? ok. what else? 1st rounder? Ok

I honestly think they'd try to push Dallas' buttons because they know Dallas is in a bind and an in-state rival.

I'm thinking the worst: Butler, Roddy, Mahinmi, multiple firsts and maybe more. Contractually, if they can unload any junk, they'd want that too.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I honestly think they'd try to push Dallas' buttons because they know Dallas is in a bind and an in-state rival.

I'm thinking the worst: Butler, Roddy, Mahinmi, multiple firsts and maybe more. Contractually, if they can unload any junk, they'd want that too.

I can deal with that leaving, I'd rather not just toss in Mahinmi and take back their garbage but hey, if were trying to win now lets S or get off the pot and not worry about if a move doesn't work we'd be stuck for a few years, were probably gonna suck either way. Besides with Martin you have a 1st option type scorer for years to come granted he stay healthy. Obviously they aren't sitting around not looking for moves but I'd rather die trying than come close with one foot in and one out.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I can deal with that leaving, I'd rather not just toss in Mahinmi and take back their garbage but hey, if were trying to win now lets S or get off the pot and not worry about if a move doesn't work we'd be stuck for a few years, were probably gonna suck either way. Besides with Martin you have a 1st option type scorer for years to come granted he stay healthy. Obviously they aren't sitting around not looking for moves but I'd rather die trying than come close with one foot in and one out.

To be honest, I honestly don't think that's enough in an offer and Dallas doesn't have much else in terms of assets to send over that Houston would want.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by JHT

Blind fanboy post.

[aquaadverse]

Originally Posted by cowdog80

Barkley is not without reason. Who is the last team to win a title without an elite big man? Probably '06 by a team I will not name, but they still had just barely past his prime Shaq.

Besides, that explanation doesn't really fit Chuck's reasoning. While Dirk is clearly playing at a higher level than Duncan at this stage in their respective careers, Duncan still fills the "traditional" big man role than anyone on this team.

I think Charles just saw a team which - at that time - was rolling through opposition, while San Antonio (while still winning) was eking by a few teams during that stretch.

Alonzo Mourning didn't exactly suck as a backup.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, those 13 assists all happened completely by accident...

I mean, Kidd's shooting and focus have been lacking, but let's not pretend that he's the problem with this team right now. The Mavs are currently short on firepower and lacking confidence - it's the whole team, not just one guy...

What??? He most certainly IS a HUGE problem with this team right now. We have a pathetically anemic offense, and our starting PG is putting up 8 PPG on 34/31 shooting with .9 ftas.

Do you comprehend that? An NBA starting PG is shooting 34/31 from the field. That's beyond pathetic.

A big reason our offense is so pathetic is because our PG absolutely CANNOT score the ball. Other teams don't even respect him. It's 4 on 5.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Definitely seems more potent offensively than Marion, probably because of his range and better handles. He's crafty around the bucket and midrange like Marion too. I think Prince can help but we have a lot of "helpers" right now around Dirk. They need to lighten his load(meant in all ways possible :-) )This is really becoming painfully obvious.

I think Prince and Marion are similar level offensive players, they just do it in completley different ways, I for one do not like Princes game much at all and think his defense is mainly off of past reputation just simply isn't that good. I would prefer Martin, Ellis, Jackson, Wallace, Harris, Billups all more than Prince, I just get the sense that he is a worse version than Butler, but im not sure he can play the baseline

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I honestly think they'd try to push Dallas' buttons because they know Dallas is in a bind and an in-state rival.

I'm thinking the worst: Butler, Roddy, Mahinmi, multiple firsts and maybe more. Contractually, if they can unload any junk, they'd want that too.

i'm not even sure this would be enough to get Martin. depends on what they think of Rod. and how badly they'd want to dump salary and start over, of course.

[cowdog80]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I honestly think they'd try to push Dallas' buttons because they know Dallas is in a bind and an in-state rival.

I'm thinking the worst: Butler, Roddy, Mahinmi, multiple firsts and maybe more. Contractually, if they can unload any junk, they'd want that too.

Beyond just being an in-state rival - what evidence is there that they would be looking to move Martin period?

I know Chad Ford wrote an article about it a couple weeks ago, but that basically got torn apart with a jackhammer. The bottom line is that Martin actually has a VERY reasonable contract for his production.

[tsar]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'm thinking the worst: Butler, Roddy, Mahinmi, multiple firsts and maybe more. Contractually, if they can unload any junk, they'd want that too.

Whoops, thought you were talking about Jax....

edit edit edit

[bobatundi]

Ok, well, the Pistons are apparently so set on saving money by trading away Rip for Troy Murphy's expiring that they are not even playing him. Now, I don't think Rip is the best option for this Mavs team...but he may come at the lowest price.

Pistons are willing to take back Troy Murphy & Johan Petro, plus a future 2nd rounder, for Rip. Mavs should just offer Caron's expiring straight-up. Way better deal for Detroit, as he's cheaper than Murphy and they don't have to eat a bad deal in return. In fact I'd argue the Mavs could ask for a draft pick in such a deal. No, he's not the player he used to be, but he is a 2nd scorer and a legit SG.