Mavs Mid Season Report

[tcat075]

Part 1 and Part 2 of the Mavs Moneyball report are up, and good reads. However, I'm kind of interested in seeing what you guys think, too. The questions I asked in the report are below:

What is the biggest surprise, and the biggest disappointment, so far?
One word that best describes the season so far.
Favorite game this year?
Biggest strength and weakness of the Mavericks going forward?
Who or what do you want to watch the most headed forwards?
How do you see the season ending?

Pick just one question to answer or all of them, I don't care.

[jcm28]

-Surprise: Chandler Disappointment: Butler's injury

-Word: Promising

-Fav Game: Personally I loved snapping the Heat's streak for the second time

-Strength: Dirkness, Haywood+Chandler in that C spot

-Weakness: Not enough scoring when Dirk's not playing (except for the inconsistent Terry)

-I want to see that Iggy trade happen. If not Iggy, then another good tall winger who can pump some more energy into the aging team.

-Quite honestly I think we lose in the west finals, but if we can start playing like we did before the Caron+Dirk injury then anything is possible.

[CadBane]

Haywood is in no way, shape or form involved in any strength.

Unless said strength involves being a lazy bum.

[jcm28]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Haywood is in no way, shape or form involved in any strength.

Unless said strength involves being a lazy bum.

You're probably right but I prefer him over, say, a washed-up/injury prone Dampier coming off the bench.

[mav4ever]

1. surprise: just how good chandler has been, in many ways.

2. disappointment: that bobo heals with the speed and youthfulness of a 90 year old.

3. word? barbaro

4. fav game: upsetting the cHeat so bad labron tried to run over his little coach (ya, i spelled it wrong on purpose.)

5. strength: our early domination of all the top teams in the league.

6. weakness: depth @ center and jason terry in the first 36 minutes of seemingly every game.

7. watching the rest of the season: want to see if we are prepared to do anything it takes to get dirk what he deserves before its too late (front office)

8. how will it end? i think it completely depends on number 7...... if our eforts to replace the experience and production of caron butler end with peja,,,,,,,,, 1st round exit, 2nd round tops.......... if a big move is made to get someone in here that dirk can rely on,,,,,,, skies the limit.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by jcm28

-Surprise: Chandler Disappointment: Butler's injury

-Word: Promising

-Fav Game: Personally I loved snapping the Heat's streak for the second time

-Strength: Dirkness, Haywood+Chandler in that C spot

-Weakness: Not enough scoring when Dirk's not playing (except for the inconsistent Terry)

-I want to see that Iggy trade happen. If not Iggy, then another good tall winger who can pump some more energy into the aging team.

-Quite honestly I think we lose in the west finals, but if we can start playing like we did before the Caron+Dirk injury then anything is possible.

At the very least its better than a first round exit, though obviously were looking for rings this time.

Oh, and while I think Iggy is a good player, I don't think he's what we need...as you said, we need scoring besides Dirk and while Iguodala isn't quite Marion on the offensive end, he's not Butler either.

[jcm28]

Originally Posted by tcat075

At the very least its better than a first round exit, though obviously were looking for rings this time.

Oh, and while I think Iggy is a good player, I don't think he's what we need...as you said, we need scoring besides Dirk and while Iguodala isn't quite Marion on the offensive end, he's not Butler either.

So who do you suggest we get instead of Iggy? Its true that he's not the best scorer in the league but our fastbreak plays would rock with the Jkidd+Iggy combination.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by jcm28

So who do you suggest we get instead of Iggy? Its true that he's not the best scorer in the league but our fastbreak plays would rock with the Jkidd+Iggy combination.

I hate to be boring, but its gotta be Stephen Jackson. Maybe Harris, before the Carmelo deal went kaput, or Kevin Martin if he was more available, but that's about it. Jackson has to be it...he a prolific scorer, and a team that can only score 87 against the freaking Nets need that.

[grndmstr_c]

You are very mistaken if you think Jax is a prolific scorer.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You are very mistaken if you think Jax is a prolific scorer.

Right, the scary thing? The options get incredibly dry after you take Jackson out of the mix and you're only looking at lighter contract players.

[mavs777]

I have moved over to the side of Crash and Iggy, given neither gives up Roddy, the reason is we get another scorer (while neither are number 2 options to be honest), we get great rebounders for the positions they play (rebounding is an issue), and they both can really defend. Hopefully roddy can come back and give us 15 or so PPG while being efficient, plus Iggy/Wallace I think that would be enough to make us a legit contender

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by mavs777

I have moved over to the side of Crash and Iggy, given neither gives up Roddy, the reason is we get another scorer (while neither are number 2 options to be honest), we get great rebounders for the positions they play (rebounding is an issue), and they both can really defend. Hopefully roddy can come back and give us 15 or so PPG while being efficient, plus Iggy/Wallace I think that would be enough to make us a legit contender

They're already hesitant on Jackson's deal....I highly doubt they're willing to bite the bullet on Iggy.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Part 1 and Part 2 of the Mavs Moneyball report are up, and good reads. However, I'm kind of interested in seeing what you guys think, too. The questions I asked in the report are below:

What is the biggest surprise, and the biggest disappointment, so far?
One word that best describes the season so far.
Favorite game this year?
Biggest strength and weakness of the Mavericks going forward?
Who or what do you want to watch the most headed forwards?
How do you see the season ending?

Pick just one question to answer or all of them, I don't care.

1. Biggest surprise is Chandler by a mile. He's been a revelation. Biggest disappointment is a tie between Roddy being hurt and Haywood being the lazy contract whore that everyone always accused Damp of being (but were wrong).

2. Frustrating

3. Biggest strength is their defense, which I consider legit. Biggest weakness is their lack of offensive firepower after Dirk.

4. I want to see Roddy.

5. No freaking idea.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Right, the scary thing? The options get incredibly dry after you take Jackson out of the mix and you're only looking at lighter contract players.

Perhaps true, but I also think the need will eventually prove to be less than present circumstances have conspired to make it appear. The team that took the floor tonight was still well short of what can reasonably be called full strength.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Perhaps true, but I also think the need will eventually prove to be less than present circumstances have conspired to make it appear. The team that took the floor tonight was still well short of what can reasonably be called full strength.

I'm not even thinking about trades for small forwards anymore. Pavlovic and Peja should be able to provide decent enough contributions to compliment Marion AND allow him to go back to backup up at PF (which is a key).

I'm far, far more interested in backup PG right now.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not even thinking about trades for small forwards anymore. Pavlovic and Peja should be able to provide decent enough contributions to compliment Marion AND allow him to go back to backup up at PF (which is a key).

I'm far, far more interested in backup PG right now.

I have to say that I'm a little fixated on JR Smith at the moment, but outside of that I'm right there with you.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not even thinking about trades for small forwards anymore. Pavlovic and Peja should be able to provide decent enough contributions to compliment Marion AND allow him to go back to backup up at PF (which is a key).

I'm far, far more interested in backup PG right now.

Hinrich (my favorite choice) is hurt now
Billups is a longshot
Beno is expensive as hell

[cuckold]

spurs lost tonight to new orleans

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not even thinking about trades for small forwards anymore. Pavlovic and Peja should be able to provide decent enough contributions to compliment Marion AND allow him to go back to backup up at PF (which is a key).

I'm far, far more interested in backup PG right now.

They can be ok but I still think we need another play maker, even if Roddy gives us 15 PPG, preferably a big wing, if we don't get 1 than i would prefer a backup point and some rebounding help (this is an obvious weakness of the team)

[jcm28]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not even thinking about trades for small forwards anymore. Pavlovic and Peja should be able to provide decent enough contributions to compliment Marion AND allow him to go back to backup up at PF (which is a key).

I'm far, far more interested in backup PG right now.

Its true that with Peja we have a lot of depth at SF, but neither Peja nor Sasha can offer what Butler offered. I still think that our only way of being able to compete for the title this season is if we somehow trade Butler for another SF good enough to start for us.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by jcm28

Its true that with Peja we have a lot of depth at SF, but neither Peja nor Sasha can offer what Butler offered. I still think that our only way of being able to compete for the title this season is if we somehow trade Butler for another SF good enough to start for us.

The point is not that Peja or Sasha can replace Butler. The point is that while the Butler injury really hurts, SF was by far our deepest position before it happened. Shawn Marion would start for a ton of NBA teams, and Stevenson has proven that he is just fine there in most matchups.

So assuming Roddy comes and contributes at SG, SF should be fine with some combination of Marion, Peja, Stevenson and Pavlovich. Not great, but fine, and good enough to allow the team to be opportunistic in looking for an upgrade at pretty much any position, rather than being desperate for a warm body at SF.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jcm28

Its true that with Peja we have a lot of depth at SF, but neither Peja nor Sasha can offer what Butler offered. I still think that our only way of being able to compete for the title this season is if we somehow trade Butler for another SF good enough to start for us.

We're probably going to have three SF's on the roster by this time Monday, and you want to trade for another one? Weird.

[BGMaverick9]

jthig, who would you target as a pg?

I forgot Sessions off of my list I mentioned above, he'd be a pretty decent option as well.

Depending on a deal, you might have to get a little creative on how to structure it. It'll just depend on how many bodies come in and come out.

[jcm28]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

We're probably going to have three SF's on the roster by this time Monday, and you want to trade for an elite one? Weird.

fyp

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I just hope peja can deliver enough to get me super optimistic about our title chances.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jcm28

fyp

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I just hope peja can deliver enough to get me super optimistic about our title chances.

Again, why SF?

And Peja will not deliver enough to get you super optimistic about our title chances. But if he's healthy there's a good chance he'll deliver enough to ensure that the SF position doesn't prevent the Mavs from having a shot at a title.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Again, why SF?

And Peja will not deliver enough to get you super optimistic about our title chances. But if he's healthy there's a good chance he'll deliver enough to ensure that the SF position doesn't prevent the Mavs from having a shot at a title.

Even before the injury bug, point guard was our clear position of weakness. Kidd can perform nicely but thinking to the end of the year, he'll be out of gas or pretty close to it at this rate. Behind him, you have Barea who has strengths this team definitely needs but he is asked to do way too much.

like you mentioned, the SF position has been strengthened enough to not consider it a major weakness, Marion alone brings some stability to the position.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

jthig, who would you target as a pg?

I forgot Sessions off of my list I mentioned above, he'd be a pretty decent option as well.

Depending on a deal, you might have to get a little creative on how to structure it. It'll just depend on how many bodies come in and come out.

Hard to know who's available. Hinrich would be great if his injury turns out to not be too serious.

[LonghornDub]

As far as I'm concerned, the most important thing is just getting more scoring at the 1, 2, or 3. Whether it's a backup PG, a starting SF, a starting SG, whatever, we just have to have more offense from at least one of those three positions.

I don't wanna get too hung up on which of those things we need more than the other, because at the end of the day, I'm not sure it matters. What we really need more than anything is another guy (or 2) who can score some.

[jcm28]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Again, why SF?

And Peja will not deliver enough to get you super optimistic about our title chances. But if he's healthy there's a good chance he'll deliver enough to ensure that the SF position doesn't prevent the Mavs from having a shot at a title.

That would be good enough for me. As for a backup PG, couldn't we just wait for Roddy to get back? Problem is we wouldn't have any cover at SG if we use roddy as PG.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

jthig, who would you target as a pg?

I forgot Sessions off of my list I mentioned above, he'd be a pretty decent option as well.

Depending on a deal, you might have to get a little creative on how to structure it. It'll just depend on how many bodies come in and come out.

Ive been begging for Sessions for a long time around here. He seems to be having a pretty good year. he's like a Devin Harris-lite which wouldnt be so bad to have.
The Matt Carroll TE works w/his salary which would save the Butler chip. They'd save almost 8 million in luxury tax.

I have to ask you honestly though BG: do you think the MBT is REALLY that committed to not absorbing huge payroll for less than a star or do you think it's a bargaining stance? I tend to think(and hope)it's the latter, although these guys are way more plugged in than we are as far as the next CBA. Perhaps staying financially flexible IS a bigger concern than some of us even know. People continue to sight the possibility of losing Tyson due to a hard cap. But there would have to be some built in protection to "grandfather" it in, right? I think thats what the talk of a "franchise tag" is about.

I guess i feel like the NBA sees the writing on the wall and will soon make it harder for players like CP,Melo,Deron to jump small-market ships. The viability of the league in a way depends on it. If the MBT passes on a player like Iggy because they don't view him as a difference maker then that's one thing. If it's because they can find a better "value" well then that makes sense too dependent upon the player i guess. If we get a guy that is good value AND maintains flexibility that would seem to follow their recent M.O. and in that case Prince and Billups make a ton of sense. I'd just hate to see the team stand pat if the EXACT right deal doesn't come along because of what may or may not happen in the future.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

As far as I'm concerned, the most important thing is just getting more scoring at the 1, 2, or 3. Whether it's a backup PG, a starting SF, a starting SG, whatever, we just have to have more offense from at least one of those three positions.

I don't wanna get too hung up on which of those things we need more than the other, because at the end of the day, I'm not sure it matters. What we really need more than anything is another guy (or 2) who can score some.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Another consistent scoring option(or two)is what is needed most, regardless of position.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by jcm28

That would be good enough for me. As for a backup PG, couldn't we just wait for Roddy to get back? Problem is we wouldn't have any cover at SG if we use roddy as PG.

It would be alot to ask of Roddy, after being out injured all year, to come back and run point. Especially come playoff time when rotations are tightened and all the teams(in the West at least)are good.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Ive been begging for Sessions for a long time around here. He seems to be having a pretty good year. he's like a Devin Harris-lite which wouldnt be so bad to have.
The Matt Carroll TE works w/his salary which would save the Butler chip. They'd save almost 8 million in luxury tax.

I have to ask you honestly though BG: do you think the MBT is REALLY that committed to not absorbing huge payroll for less than a star or do you think it's a bargaining stance? I tend to think(and hope)it's the latter, although these guys are way more plugged in than we are as far as the next CBA. Perhaps staying financially flexible IS a bigger concern than some of us even know. People continue to sight the possibility of losing Tyson due to a hard cap. But there would have to be some built in protection to "grandfather" it in, right? I think thats what the talk of a "franchise tag" is about.

I guess i feel like the NBA sees the writing on the wall and will soon make it harder for players like CP,Melo,Deron to jump small-market ships. The viability of the league in a way depends on it. If the MBT passes on a player like Iggy because they don't view him as a difference maker then that's one thing. If it's because they can find a better "value" well then that makes sense too dependent upon the player i guess. If we get a guy that is good value AND maintains flexibility that would seem to follow their recent M.O. and in that case Prince and Billups make a ton of sense. I'd just hate to see the team stand pat if the EXACT right deal doesn't come along because of what may or may not happen in the future.

Cleveland is not in the luxury tax.

I don't have any actual insight like BG, but I absolutely believe that the stance on long term contracts is very real and not at all a bargaining position. Sure the owners would like to find ways to keep players from moving and leaving them with nothing. But their first priority is going to be to lower their costs, which could mean shorter contracts, less guarantees, and maybe a harder cap.

None of it may come to pass, and there will probably some sort of "grandfather" process to easy any transition, but the prudent thing is still to be cautious and leave yourself in a good position no matter the outcome.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by mac222b

It would be alot to ask of Roddy, after being out injured all year, to come back and run point. Especially come playoff time when rotations are tightened and all the teams(in the West at least)are good.

I would go a step further and say it's completely and utterly unrealistic, especially considering how awful he was at PG during Summer League.

[jcm28]

I think it would also be alot to ask for him to score around 15 ppg once he comes back as well (and thats IF RC plays him as much as we are hoping he will).

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Ive been begging for Sessions for a long time around here. He seems to be having a pretty good year. he's like a Devin Harris-lite which wouldnt be so bad to have.
The Matt Carroll TE works w/his salary which would save the Butler chip. They'd save almost 8 million in luxury tax.

That's where it gets complicated. If you do the Sessions for TPE, you better trade Butler for something in terms of a future asset or you're having to cut someone else.

I have to ask you honestly though BG: do you think the MBT is REALLY that committed to not absorbing huge payroll for less than a star or do you think it's a bargaining stance? I tend to think(and hope)it's the latter, although these guys are way more plugged in than we are as far as the next CBA. Perhaps staying financially flexible IS a bigger concern than some of us even know. People continue to sight the possibility of losing Tyson due to a hard cap. But there would have to be some built in protection to "grandfather" it in, right? I think thats what the talk of a "franchise tag" is about.

I guess i feel like the NBA sees the writing on the wall and will soon make it harder for players like CP,Melo,Deron to jump small-market ships. The viability of the league in a way depends on it. If the MBT passes on a player like Iggy because they don't view him as a difference maker then that's one thing. If it's because they can find a better "value" well then that makes sense too dependent upon the player i guess. If we get a guy that is good value AND maintains flexibility that would seem to follow their recent M.O. and in that case Prince and Billups make a ton of sense. I'd just hate to see the team stand pat if the EXACT right deal doesn't come along because of what may or may not happen in the future.

Some of it could be posturing but even if the stuff is grandfathered, their payroll is still going to be relatively high and they'll need to structure for the future.

Chandler IS going to be a major priority if not the biggest priority. He's the perfect compliment for Dirk as a big man.

I'm not so sure the league is seeing the writing on the wall, if so...they're seeing their greatest ratings and I would assume ticket sales are doing slightly better or holding steady based on the Heat traveling Circus. Every team has at least one extra game they are selling out now.

Your example of Iggy doesn't work because he doesn't fit the need of the organization two-fold: They need a guy who can create for himself and I think that's a stretch. He also costs a ton of money.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jcm28

That would be good enough for me. As for a backup PG, couldn't we just wait for Roddy to get back? Problem is we wouldn't have any cover at SG if we use roddy as PG.

You're seriously considering that rolling Roddy at the point guard position is a good idea?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Cleveland is not in the luxury tax.

I don't have any actual insight like BG, but I absolutely believe that the stance on long term contracts is very real and not at all a bargaining position. Sure the owners would like to find ways to keep players from moving and leaving them with nothing. But their first priority is going to be to lower their costs, which could mean shorter contracts, less guarantees, and maybe a harder cap.

None of it may come to pass, and there will probably some sort of "grandfather" process to easy any transition, but the prudent thing is still to be cautious and leave yourself in a good position no matter the outcome.

Strange cuz ESPN trade machine has them 14 million over the cap... Is this because of the Lebron TE or something? I admittedly don't understand all of the salary-cap stuff precisely.
Like i said in my post above i'd be a little disappointed if the FO passed on a superior player for a lesser one or,worse, no move at all due to future fiscal concerns. I'm all for getting good value. But as good as this team looked before Dirk and Caron's injuries it'd be a shame not to get the best player available if the cost in assets isn't exorbitant.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Strange cuz ESPN trade machine has them 14 million over the cap... Is this because of the Lebron TE or something? I admittedly don't understand all of the salary-cap stuff precisely.
Like i said in my post above i'd be a little disappointed if the FO passed on a superior player for a lesser one or,worse, no move at all due to future fiscal concerns. I'm all for getting good value. But as good as this team looked before Dirk and Caron's injuries it'd be a shame not to get the best player available if the cost in assets isn't exorbitant.

Aaaah, they still have Wally Z's contract on their books. For a whopping 19mil. Holy effing crap.

So I guess they are in LT this year. Wow. Man they're only a couple mil from getting under the LT line. They must be desperate to make that happen, no?

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Aaaah, they still have Wally Z's contract on their books. For a whopping 19mil. Holy effing crap.

So I guess they are in LT this year. Wow.

holy crap. lol