Mavs looking into trading Finley to East (DMN)

[Just211]

DMN

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News


Since news broke of a provision in the NBA's new collective bargaining agreement that allows a team to waive a player and be relieved of his luxury-tax burden, the Mavericks have been flooded with inquiries about Michael Finley.

The bottom line is unlikely to change – Finley in all probability has played his last game as a Maverick.

But the mechanism for his departure could change. While the possibility still exists that the Mavericks could use the "amnesty" clause in the new CBA, president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said they also have been approached with trade possibilities that could accomplish the same thing: provide financial relieve for the team, as well as the bonus of acquiring an asset in return.

"Our first choice would be to keep Fin in a Mavericks uniform until he retires," Nelson said. "But as we run through the creative options, there seems to be less and less prospect of that happening. We have heard from a lot of people."

The Mavericks have been exploring all their options since they received word of the new clause in the CBA. Any team can use a one-time exception to waive a player and not have that player count against any luxury tax the owner must pay.

The team would still have to pay the player's contract – over $51 million in Finley's case – but could save that amount in luxury taxes. The luxury tax has been imposed twice and owners expect it to be in effect in coming years, too. When teams exceed a certain payroll, they have to pay a dollar-for-dollar tax above that threshold.

Owner Mark Cuban could save $51 million in tax alone on Finley's deal.

While that possibility is tempting, a more palatable solution would be to trade Finley for a player or players with shorter-term contracts, preferably an Eastern Conference team.

There is another reason why trading Finley might be feasible. The new CBA has restructured the trade rules that allow teams to match up salaries within 125-percent of each other for trade purposes. Previously, combined salaries had to be within 115 percent.

When speaking of Finley's $15.9-million salary this season, that means an extra $1.5 million buffer on matching up salaries for trade purposes.

What kind of players could the Mavericks expect if they were to trade Finley rather than waive him?

A sampling of possibilities, if the Mavericks are intent on shipping him to an Eastern contender:

• Indiana could package the contract of Reggie Miller, who has announced his retirement, or Scot Pollard with Austin Croshere and get in the range of Finley's contract.

• Miami has Eddie Jones, whose contract ($30 million for two years) is similar to Finley's, but one year shorter.

If the Bulls want to bring back the hometown hero, they could package Antonio Davis and Eric Piatkowski.

[Just211]

one i think will work:

Philly: McKie & Mashburn. Waive Mashburn, keep McKie as a bench guy, save a TON of $

I don't know if Philly is game, but I bet Dallas would be.

[Nash13]

Just211, i doubt it. I think that was Philly's point of that trade midseason, Mashburn's contract.

I like the Indiana and Chicago trades.

[Pirate]

Mashburn should be a medical waiver this summer and thus should not be an amnesty candidate.

[dude1394]

"Our first choice would be to keep Fin in a Mavericks uniform until he retires," Nelson said. "But as we run through the creative options, there seems to be less and less prospect of that happening. We have heard from a lot of people."

Why do they say this crap. It's obvious pr and also obviously not true.

[dirno2000]

Why do they say this crap. It's obvious pr and also obviously not true.

No doubt about it. They're so dead set on getting rid of Fin that I'm begining to wonder if it's really just a money issue.

There was no way that Bill Parcells was going to coach the Cowboys with Emmitt Smith in the locker room. Emmitt had done too much for the franchise and as a result, wielded too much power.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re seeing the same thing with Avery and Fin. I never got the feeling that Mike was the biggest Avery supporter. Unlike Parcells, Avery didn’t have the clout that demand that Fin be moved but with the new CBA Cuban has an easy out.

[MavsFanFinley]

I'm not sure why Philly would want Fin when they have Korver, Green, Iguodala, and Salmons at the 2/3 spots. Not to mention they already have 2 massive contracts in Webber and Iverson. Do they really want to add Fin's?

Chicago needs to worry about Chandler and Curry and even Duhon. Won't Finley eat up most, if not all, there money? They can wait until the Mavs waive Finley and then sign him for the MLE or less.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Indiana could package the contract of Reggie Miller, who has announced his retirement, or Scot Pollard with Austin Croshere and get in the range of Finley's contract.

LOL. Now why would we do that? I thought the move was about saving money? I'm too starting to think the reason of Finley's depature has nothing to do with them being able to save 51 million. I think its a personal thing.

[vjz]

Originally posted by: dirno2000

No doubt about it. They're so dead set on getting rid of Fin that I'm begining to wonder if it's really just a money issue.

There was no way that Bill Parcells was going to coach the Cowboys with Emmitt Smith in the locker room. Emmitt had done too much for the franchise and as a result, wielded too much power.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re seeing the same thing with Avery and Fin. I never got the feeling that Mike was the biggest Avery supporter. Unlike Parcells, Avery didn’t have the clout that demand that Fin be moved but with the new CBA Cuban has an easy out.

That's a very interesting analogy, and makes sense to me.

I also don't see how a trade to the East would help; what if the team Fin is traded to waive him for salary cap relief? He would then end up on the Suns, Spurs or Rockets, and I can't even imagine playing against him in the playoffs. I have a bad feeling he would make us pay.

[madape]

But as we run through the creative options, there seems to be less and less prospect of that happening.

"Creative"

Is that the Maverick translation for "fucking fans in the ass".

Go on and be as "creative" as you can, dude. I'm sure you'll have a couple of fans who stick with you after you burn everything to ground.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

If you don't like the crew, then why don't you jump ship? Moronic posts like that should be banned, and I don't appreciate the language.

[dirno2000]

The funny thing is, he went back and edited his post to make it more vulgar [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[dirk2003]

Madape... why do you waste your time with these Mavericks? Why not become a Phoenix fan? Come on... im sure they will like you better there... and we would like it better here.

[chumdawg]

The naivete on this board confounds me. See my sig, you Cuban knob slobbers.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: dirno2000

No doubt about it. They're so dead set on getting rid of Fin that I'm begining to wonder if it's really just a money issue.

There was no way that Bill Parcells was going to coach the Cowboys with Emmitt Smith in the locker room. Emmitt had done too much for the franchise and as a result, wielded too much power.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re seeing the same thing with Avery and Fin. I never got the feeling that Mike was the biggest Avery supporter. Unlike Parcells, Avery didn’t have the clout that demand that Fin be moved but with the new CBA Cuban has an easy out.

D2K, this is an interesting point. I have had similar ideas myself. I suspect you may be closer to the truth than any of us know.

And if you are, then I am ready to voice some concerns. For one thing, NBA rosters are a far cry from NFL rosters. One NBA players equals what, about five NFL players? It's going to be a tough road for Avery if he doesn't have it in his skill set to work with (or around) certain kinds of players. Goodness knows that if he has a long coaching career he will land in a number of new situations.

But more importantly, if it comes down to a tradeoff of "long time leader, in Finley" or "new coach, in Johnson," then I'm quite concerned that we are taking the short end of that deal. Maybe Johnson will be a good coach one day. But as of now, he's not qualified to wash Finley's jock, on a relative scale.

And here's the deal: everyone knows this. It probably creates a problem for AJ if he runs a Michael Finley out of town because he has to in order to take control of the team.

I dunno...but I think it's a very real possibility that AJ loses this team before he gains it.

[foglemann]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
The naivete on this board confounds me. See my sig, you Cuban knob slobbers.

I'm definitly not one of those, but I will call myself a Maverick knob slobber and a proud one at that. I think the loyalties of some of you is off, and if your this mad about a player, you should follow that player, where ever he goes. Obviously the team thing doesn't mean much to some.

[chumdawg]

Foglemann, is there room for died-in-the-wool Mavs fans like you and me to run the current ownership out of town so that we can still cheer for our favorite team?

I mean, how far do we take this concept of "home team?" If all the current guys are released and replaced by CBA players, are we supposed to love them just the same?

I'm afraid that "the home team" is a broader concept than you are giving it credit for. Typically it doesn't involve supporting players for years on end, only to watch them leave for greener pastures when they can't find work here anymore.

[grndmstr_c]

I dunno...but I think it's a very real possibility that AJ loses this team before he gains it.

You're starting to sound like CD, CD (if you take my meaning). I haven't seen any evidence at all to support that claim over the myriad of other plausible reads on what's going on. If I've missed quotes from players other than Fin that show that AJ's losing the team feel free to direct me to them, but I'm not aware that any such quotes exist.

Beyond that, I cannot for one minute imagine that if Fin gets cut the impetus will be coming from anyone other than Cuban. The financial ramifications are too significant to put this one off on a rookie coach not feeling comfortable.

[Pirate]

I am not convinced either way regarding this whole thing, other than to believe it is way premature to write off this summer as a loss.

Last year it looked like the Mavs were going in the dumper, as they won 52 and were spanked in rd 1, and then lost Nash right up front. But they remade the team with a stronger middle and won 58 and made a good showing in rd 2 this year.

People who are wailing "woe be unto us" right now without seeing where they try to take this are very short-sighted. If they run off Fin and get nothing in return, I will be at the front of the angry mob looking for someone to hang.

But you dont salute the winners and kill the losers before the game is even begun. Heck, free agency doesnt even begin til 7-22!

[dirk2003]

Madape wrote on Monday August 23, 2004 2:19 PM (NEW!)


I'm starting to get the feeling that this is the year it all falls apart. We have never seen this much change. The departure of Nash is going to have a major, major effect on how we perform... on both sides of the ball. It's going to be a compleltely different looking team out there. Our success depends on how well the team adjusts. That means both the players AND the coach.

I'm worried that Don Nelson has not given the team approval on any of this summer's moves. I think he's upset that Nash wasn't resigned, and that Nash's money was for the most part spent on Erick Dampier, a player he is reportedly not a fan of. This is no longer "his" team or "his" vision.

If we start off slow, I forsee a great deal of internal struggle.

The biggest struggle will be Nelson and Mark Cuban. It is becoming clear that they are not on the same page in regards to how this team should be structured. Nelson may try to make this team "fit" into what he needs. He will try to play lineups that produce what he wants to see. This may mean going with a more athletic team, and that means no Dampier, no Bradley, no center. If given an ultimatum, I think he may quit. The alternative is that he mails it in. You can rest assured that if he mails it in this year, he's fired. If that happens, he takes the whole staff with him... Donnie, Del Harris, everyone. In either case, it's hard for players to execute for a franchise without any clear sense of direction.

If that happens, you can expect this team to be in the lottery next year. I just can't see the old players reacting well to a completley new staff brought on in mid-season. I certainly can't see the new players coming learning a new system twice and being successful. If Nelson is fired, this team is dead. At least for a couple of years.

If I were to guess, I'd say that would be the most likely scenario. Much more likely than the overly optimistic NBA championship predictions.

I fear this is going to be a dark, dark year for the Mavericks. We have to pray that the team hasn't disintegrated by year end.



Yeah, Madape is always right with his predictions. What a tool.

[Arne]

Just ignore madape.

[Pongo]

Maybe the Mavs can make a deal involving a draft pick? That would be awesome...

[The Miles]

I love, LOVE, Finley for Antonio Davis and Piatkowski. That would be a dream deal, two expirers that fill needs. I told you guys that it was more about the Mavs finally finding an excuse to move Finley.

This is pretty exciting news to those of us that think Fin should be gone. It beats the heck out of releasing him, not only do we acquire tradable assets (two expriers) but we would actually fill needs on the team with Davis inside and Piatkowski on the perimeter. It is a much, much better trade than the Chris Webber trade because unlike the Kings, we won't be stuck with oweing Kenny Thomas for several years nor Corliss Williamson.

For those of us, and there are a lot of us (over 70% of the fans that voted on the DMN poll), that are firmly in the camp that we want Finley out of Dallas (nothing against him as a person, he is just not needed here in our opinions, we feel that the team progresses without him here, still want #4 hanging from the AAC in 3 years) this is a dream deal. I don't care much for the Indiana deal, we would need to get Fred Jones out of it for me to like it, would love to get David Harrison too but I know we are pushing it asking for him.

[Lebanese_Fan]

Bender, Pollard (or croshere) and Miller For finley and (DJ). Must inlcude bender in the trade. That would be perfect.

[Misfit Mav]

If they wanted to trade him, they shouldn't have made their intentions to waive him public. What team is going to take on his contract if they might be able to get him for the minimum or the MLE? Seems like a pretty big mistake by management.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: dirno2000

No doubt about it. They're so dead set on getting rid of Fin that I'm begining to wonder if it's really just a money issue.

There was no way that Bill Parcells was going to coach the Cowboys with Emmitt Smith in the locker room. Emmitt had done too much for the franchise and as a result, wielded too much power.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re seeing the same thing with Avery and Fin. I never got the feeling that Mike was the biggest Avery supporter. Unlike Parcells, Avery didn’t have the clout that demand that Fin be moved but with the new CBA Cuban has an easy out.

I think there is some truth to your opinion. My disagreement with the mavs thinking here is that Emmitt was playing a position that just had to be upgraded. Getting a better player was of paramount importance for Parcells. Also obviously Parcells wasn't committed to pay him for three years to go play for another team. If he had been, he'd have brought someone in and benched emmitt (imo).

But finley is still operating at a pretty high level and certainly will arguably continue to operate at a higher level than his replacement (which you couldn't say for emmitt's replacement, who with a draft pick could be a better player).

[dude1394]

Madape provides me with innumerable chuckles, I love the 'ape. Keep 'em coming.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: dirk2003
Madape wrote on Monday August 23, 2004 2:19 PM (NEW!)


I'm starting to get the feeling that this is the year it all falls apart. We have never seen this much change. The departure of Nash is going to have a major, major effect on how we perform... on both sides of the ball. It's going to be a compleltely different looking team out there. Our success depends on how well the team adjusts. That means both the players AND the coach.

I'm worried that Don Nelson has not given the team approval on any of this summer's moves. I think he's upset that Nash wasn't resigned, and that Nash's money was for the most part spent on Erick Dampier, a player he is reportedly not a fan of. This is no longer "his" team or "his" vision.

If we start off slow, I forsee a great deal of internal struggle.

The biggest struggle will be Nelson and Mark Cuban. It is becoming clear that they are not on the same page in regards to how this team should be structured. Nelson may try to make this team "fit" into what he needs. He will try to play lineups that produce what he wants to see. This may mean going with a more athletic team, and that means no Dampier, no Bradley, no center. If given an ultimatum, I think he may quit. The alternative is that he mails it in. You can rest assured that if he mails it in this year, he's fired. If that happens, he takes the whole staff with him... Donnie, Del Harris, everyone. In either case, it's hard for players to execute for a franchise without any clear sense of direction.

If that happens, you can expect this team to be in the lottery next year. I just can't see the old players reacting well to a completley new staff brought on in mid-season. I certainly can't see the new players coming learning a new system twice and being successful. If Nelson is fired, this team is dead. At least for a couple of years.

If I were to guess, I'd say that would be the most likely scenario. Much more likely than the overly optimistic NBA championship predictions.

I fear this is going to be a dark, dark year for the Mavericks. We have to pray that the team hasn't disintegrated by year end.



Yeah, Madape is always right with his predictions. What a tool.

Madape certainly wasn't alone in those type of predictions, the media shared them. Also there is only one reason that it didn't at least fall to a 50 win team....Dirk Nowitzki. He single handedly saved last season imo.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: The Miles
I love, LOVE, Finley for Antonio Davis and Piatkowski. That would be a dream deal, two expirers that fill needs. I told you guys that it was more about the Mavs finally finding an excuse to move Finley.

This is pretty exciting news to those of us that think Fin should be gone. It beats the heck out of releasing him, not only do we acquire tradable assets (two expriers) but we would actually fill needs on the team with Davis inside and Piatkowski on the perimeter. It is a much, much better trade than the Chris Webber trade because unlike the Kings, we won't be stuck with oweing Kenny Thomas for several years nor Corliss Williamson.

For those of us, and there are a lot of us (over 70% of the fans that voted on the DMN poll), that are firmly in the camp that we want Finley out of Dallas (nothing against him as a person, he is just not needed here in our opinions, we feel that the team progresses without him here, still want #4 hanging from the AAC in 3 years) this is a dream deal. I don't care much for the Indiana deal, we would need to get Fred Jones out of it for me to like it, would love to get David Harrison too but I know we are pushing it asking for him.

I've never had an issue with moving a player (other than showing the complete lack of loyalty that he mavs have for anyone) when you get some value back. Moving him only to save money DOES look like Donald Sterling.

I don't understand why fans hate finley, surely don't. But I guess I'm not a real "fan". Harumph.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav
If they wanted to trade him, they shouldn't have made their intentions to waive him public. What team is going to take on his contract if they might be able to get him for the minimum or the MLE? Seems like a pretty big mistake by management.

Only gotcha here is that if a team really wants him then getting him in trade is a sure bet, versus competing against other teams that might have more money (more than mle) to offer.

I assume that mike could easily be offered a higher than MLE for 1-2 years from someone under the cap for example.

[The Miles]

I wouldn't call it "save," Dirk is a great player and is very underated on Mavs boards. People (in general) don't realize how good Dirk Nowitzki is. They say Nash leaving would hurt the team, false, we got better and it is because Dirk had the offense ran through him a lot more than in the past where it ran through Nash. People now want to say that because Finley is on the outs that the team will struggle, IMO that will be just as false (though another 6 game improvement seems unlikely, 64-18 in todays West is insane) because what it means more than anything, more than the loss of Fins 40% accuracy behind the arc is that it is now fully, 100% Dirks team, on the court and off of the court.

Dirk has never failed us. Those that blame the Game 6 loss on Dirks 0-5 in OT just don't want to face that fact that Jet lost us that game, series, and our season when he failed to foul Steve Nash up 3 with 7 ticks left. It is just how it is, I guess Dirk is slowly becoming the new whipping boy around town. Dirk guarantees you a 50 win season, he usually guarantees you a 2nd round appearance. People point to the Houston series where Dirk was only 21/9/3, and yes, he struggled. But what he does for the team is give the rest of the team wide open looks, no one ever wants to talk about that. No one wants to talk about how Jet, Josh, Stack, Quis, Fin, etc...never see doubles when Dirk is on the floor.

I guess he saved the season but to me it wasn't saving the season, it was expected. Dirk is a horse, our horse, and the reason we are a great team.

[dude1394]

Well dirk won't become the whipping boy until shawn, fin, kvh is run out of town.

But I would call it save. I don't see how else you could call it. Dirk by mid-season was a broken-down horse. Only getting KVH in the house was he able to have anything left for the playoffs. Steve not being here did NOT make us a better team.

Not haveing Jamison/Walker here and having damp here was a positivie. If dirk hadn't eleveated his game to 1st team NBA madape would have been prophetic.

I do agree with you 100% that the 0-5 bashing he's gotten is bs. Both Jet and Damp deserved to be called out by one the best 5 players in the world.

[Lebanese_Fan]

If he doesn't call out players to improve, who would?!?!?! Some people just enjoy bashing him, it is annoying. He is the first player in NBA history to be named to the first team and not come out of a US college. People even say Ginobili is better which is ridiculous, because he is playing along side Duncan. At least the Mavs fans should support Dirk.

[FilthyFinMavs]

For those of us, and there are a lot of us (over 70% of the fans that voted on the DMN poll),

[img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img]. A DMN poll. I wonder how many people on this board voted because I sure as hell didn't which goes to show how much worth that poll has.

At least the Mavs fans should support Dirk.

Are you serious? He got nothing but support on this board. Even after his first round absence in the Rockets series.

[The Miles]

Absence? How is 21/9/3 with solid ass defense absent? The entire team received wide open looks because he was on the court but he was absent?

[dude1394]

Dirk wasn't absent but he wasn't the difference maker we had come to expect throughout the year. A weakness that everyone knew he had was exploited by houston and phoenix. Houston DOES play good defense and dirk struggled. Phoenix doesn't and the team struggled. IMO Avery struggled the most against phoenix, he (unlike Pop) understood that the suns were too good offensively to try and shut down completely. That you have to outscore them. Use defense down the stretch to make their sphincters tighten up.

Dirk's shooting went from 46% in the season to 33% against houston. Anyone who screams that dirk wasn't giving it his all is full of it, but he was not the dominant player in that series.

[dalmations202]

Dirk wasn't absent but he wasn't the difference maker we had come to expect throughout the year. A weakness that everyone knew he had was exploited by houston and phoenix.

Very true, but it really isn't Dirk's weakness that is the problem, IMO. The problem scoring is that no one makes the other team pay for playing Dirk with a smaller quicker guy, and then pressuring him with the Big when he drives. To remedy this, the Mavs either need Howard to hit the 3 consistently, Damp to dominate inside -- so they have to double him, or get a player in here that can control the inside -- thus forcing teams to play @ home instead of doubling Dirk every time he gets the ball and drives.

If not, then Dirk has to become that offensive dominant force inside the paint -- which is not Dirk's strength, for this team to be able to score no matter what defense is applied.

[Misfit Mav]

[quote]
Originally posted by: dalmations202

Dirk wasn't absent but he wasn't the difference maker we had come to expect throughout the year. A weakness that everyone knew he had was exploited by houston and phoenix.[\q]

Very true, but it really isn't Dirk's weakness that is the problem, IMO. The problem scoring is that no one makes the other team pay for playing Dirk with a smaller quicker guy, and then pressuring him with the Big when he drives. To remedy this, the Mavs either need Howard to hit the 3 consistently, Damp to dominate inside -- so they have to double him, or get a player in here that can control the inside -- thus forcing teams to play @ home instead of doubling Dirk every time he gets the ball and drives.

If not, then Dirk has to become that offensive dominant force inside the paint -- which is not Dirk's strength, for this team to be able to score no matter what defense is applied.

Great post. I would add that a point guard that can break down the defense would work wonders for Dirk's game as well. Of course we had that guy just a season ago, but I hope Harris can help out in that area eventually.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: The Miles
Absence? How is 21/9/3 with solid ass defense absent? The entire team received wide open looks because he was on the court but he was absent?

All of those statistics were below his season average. And solid defense? He had stints on Yao Ming and Mutombo but other than that he wasn't really relied on to guard anyone with significance. In the playoffs is where the stars shine. They exceed their performances of the regular season. Dirk didn't this year but to his credit it was his first time ever not doing so. Giving the team wide open looks is his job. That's what's demanded of a superstar. Don't sit here and act as if he's doing the team a good deed. That's just one of his roles of being a superstar. He recieved plenty of support from fans including myself. I was on the bandwaggon that would say "Wait until Dirk has his breakout game". We all said it after every game so I don't get how the fans didn't support Dirk. You should see how others have been mistreated by the media and fans on this team.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

Very true, but it really isn't Dirk's weakness that is the problem, IMO. The problem scoring is that no one makes the other team pay for playing Dirk with a smaller quicker guy, and then pressuring him with the Big when he drives. To remedy this, the Mavs either need Howard to hit the 3 consistently, Damp to dominate inside -- so they have to double him, or get a player in here that can control the inside -- thus forcing teams to play @ home instead of doubling Dirk every time he gets the ball and drives.

If not, then Dirk has to become that offensive dominant force inside the paint -- which is not Dirk's strength, for this team to be able to score no matter what defense is applied.

Didn't Jason Terry not do exactly what you feel the Mavs needed? I remember him hitting a bunch of 3's due to penetration.