Deathly Hallows Discussion Thread (SPOILERS) - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Kirobaito · 07-21-2007, 07:56 PM

:::::::::::WARNING - THERE WILL BE SPOILERS - PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK::::::::::::

So, what did everyone think of it? Having sat and thought about it for about 10 hours now, I think if you ignore the epilogue (which reads a bit like poor fanfiction), it's about the perfect way to end it. I have no idea how she managed to tie up everything so perfectly.

I was convinced that Hagrid would die, and am still convinced that she planned it (she said that one character would get a reprieve).

The second I saw the Doe lead Harry to the Sword, I knew exactly what it was, and why it took that shape. It might have been more fun wondering, but it was a plot development that I had been sure of for a long time.

It took a second read of "King's Cross" to fully grasp things, but I think it had set in now. Really a fantastic end to a series that will certainly be for the ages.

This will be impossible to make into a movie. Every single page has valuable information on it that would have to be included.

Flacolaco · 07-21-2007, 09:36 PM

AGAIN, HEAVY HEAVY SPOILERS DO NOT READ THIS THREAD without FINISHING THE ENTIRE BOOK/SERIES

I plan to post proper, exhaustive review on monday.

You're right about making this one into a movie. Good luck with that.

Apart from the last 200 pages or so, which are high, high drama which was to be expected; the book had from the very first chapter a sort of new feel to it that the other books lacked.

Maybe it was because it was the last book, and I knew that anyone was fair game to get killed, but I thought this one was genuinely scary. The many SUDDEN attacks (and I mean MANY) really punctuated the mood of the book. I thought the effect was quite good. A major death in chapter 4, not to mention the minister of magic himself a few chapters later. And just when you think they're at a cozy wedding, BAM! Get the F out of there. I've never felt such dread so often reading these books. A real thriller, this one is.

I suppose I should offer my opinion: I loved it. Brilliant as always. Even though Harry was a horcrux, but she got out of killing him, which is fine by me. Although he did sort of die, did he not? (he is now more of a jesus figure than he was before).

SNAPE!!!!! Not only was he good, but he was REALLY good. for a VERY LONG TIME. I was blown away. At his death I almost smirked, and then the next thing I knew I was feeling sorry for him. His entire life was a pretty sad story, if you think about it. He never knew true happiness.

I'm going to go spot read some chapters tonight. I flew by some of the wonderful little details and humor the first time, for which we have waited so long.

Flacolaco · 07-21-2007, 09:42 PM

Also, I liked the compassion Harry showed for Malfoy while saving his life being the thing that ended up saving harry's life. Had he responded to mrs Malfoy that her son was dead, she would've certainly sold him out.

It's not a very original idea (Bilbo and Frodo showing Gollum/Smeagol compassion by not kiling him, ultimately destroyed the ring bc Gollum was around at the end to do it when frodo could not) but I thought it was well done; The idea of being compassionate winning out over Voldemorts indifference and coldness.

Flacolaco · 07-21-2007, 09:48 PM

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/s...d-d3006852801a

Quote:

Britain's bestselling daily Sun tabloid employed speed-reading champion Anne Jones to write its review. She took just 47 minutes and one second to read the U.S. version, but still had time to conclude:

"Without being too critical, the plot does seem to be a bit complicated, but I would not change a word. Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows is a real page-turner."

Sweet mother of god. 47minutes. Those speed reading champion people are freaks.

I thought I did well at a little under 9 hours total. Clearly not.

Kirobaito · 07-21-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/s...d-d3006852801a

Sweet mother of god. 47minutes. Those speed reading champion people are freaks.

I thought I did well at a little under 9 hours total. Clearly not.

I checked in at right about 9 hours, too, and I was proud of myself. Of course, the person I was reading it "with" finished in about 7, but she reads faster than I, apparently. It took me 10 to read HBP. I don't understand how you can get anything out of a book reading it in 47 minutes.

Chicken Diavlo · 07-21-2007, 10:02 PM

What I found most interesting was the whole Grindelwald/Dumbledore part of the story. That was done brilliantly, and it was actually kind of cool, finding out about the past like that, and seeing Grindelwald just frustrate the piss outta Voldy was entertaining.

Also, when it does become a movie.. I bet the Hogwarts scene will be pretty badass.

Flacolaco · 07-22-2007, 01:25 AM

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html

Quote:

After getting her hands on a copy at a Singapore bookstore, Adela Lim, 16, flipped right to the end, scanned the text furiously and exclaimed: “Oh my God! Oh my God! I’ve waited since the first book all the way until now, so I can’t wait anymore, I just want to find out the ending.”

WTF is wrong with these people?

I'd have killed myself rather than do that. (ok not really)

But that's stupid. It's the journey that's the fun part. Not the ending by itself.

Idiots.

jthig32 · 07-22-2007, 01:49 AM

Spoilers!! (Duh)

Well...wow.

I JUST finished, and am exhausted.

I was very, VERY pleased with the way the Snape storyline turned out. That is what I was most concerned about.

I agree with Flac's assessment, with this being the last book, you were constantly on the edge of your seat, because you felt like someone important could drop at any time.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd ever go see a move made for this book. I'm sorry, but you simply can not reproduce the final 6 or so chapters of that book. The entire book was pure greatness, but that final battle...you could make an entire movie on just that and not do it justice.

I just can't get over the emotion this book pulled out of me. I was so distraught when Dobby died. I was fist pumping many, many times. Overwhelmed with sadness at the deaths in the final battle. And the time in the pensive what just huge relief, as so many questions were answered in such quick succession.

WOW.

I'm ready to read it again, at a MUCH slower pace.

So, there's my purely stream of consiousness review. I can't wait to watch as more people hit this thread.

One minor thing, I do agree that the epilogue was rather....bad. I mean, I appreciated it somewhat, but it was unnecessary. Add in a dramatic Harry/Ginny kiss before the actual ending she used and you could've just left it off.

Five-ofan · 07-22-2007, 03:35 AM

spoilers

I read it in about 6 hours but ill reread it slowly tommorow. Question, I know he was scared of what he would do with the power but if dumbledore was essentially in possession of all three of the deathly hallows (he had the wand and the ring and could have easily asked harry for the cloak) why did he allow himself to become so weakened and die? It just seems odd that he would have asked snape to kill him because he knew he was about to die when a very simple means of preventing it lay open to him. many other questions/thoughts but gotta go back to work now and thats my most pressing question.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-22-2007, 09:13 AM

I agee that the epilogue was pretty bad. In fact, it may be the worst thing rowling's ever written. it was beyond cheesy.

but the rest of the book? Friggin' sweet. like someone said, the tone was completely different, with Harry/Ron/Hermione being in CONSTANT danger. And of course the feel was different because they weren't at hogwarts, like every other book was. At hogwarts, even when things went bad, there was still the feeling that they were safe...

so harry is a horcrux - take that flaco! anyway, i liked that voldy had no idea that his horcruxes were being destroyed. harry feeling him flip out when he couldn't find his horcruxes was pretty damn cool.

the dobby scene was also well done. it was emoitional. of course, that can't be in the movie because dobby was cut from all the others. speaking of the house-elves, i liked the story of regulus, how he drank the potion himself, rather than make kreacher do it.

the infiltration of the ministry and gringotts - also very well done. lots of polyjuice potion action.

The pensieve chapter was great, wrapped everything up. i thought the doe was somehow linked to lily potter, but didn't think of snape until the chapter started to reveal how close they were. and it of course confirmed what many of us thought here - that dumbledore wanted snape to kill him. to prevent draco from having to do it, and for a nice obi-wan moment.

Neville had some nice moments as well, hell, a lot of secondary characters had nice moments.

As for dumbledore cheating death, there was a lot of ambiguity surrounding whether the deathly hallows were actually items from Death. Also, I never got the impression that if you got all three, it would save you miraculously. I think you would just have all 3 items and their individual powers. It wasn't like the hallows were the voltron lions or constructicons, able to form a more powerful item.

jthig32 · 07-22-2007, 09:34 AM

I agree on the point of the Deathly Hallows, BBL. I also think Dumbledore forgetting about the Horcrux and injuring himself like that was the last straw. It brought him back to his senses, back to what was most important, the same effect Dobby dying had on Harry.

BTW, one of the perhaps underrated parts of the book that was very emotional for me was in the Great Hall when the three houses united as one in front of Harry after Pansy pointed him out. After all the things Harry went through in that school, and everyone doubting him....that was just awesome.

Dobby was in the Chamber of Secrets movie, but that was his one and only appearance in the movies, right? Like I said earlier, there is zero chance a movie will ever do this book justice, so I'm just not going to worry about it.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-22-2007, 11:04 AM

right, sorry, i should have clarified. I meant to say that Dobby was cut from all the movies other than COS.

Flacolaco · 07-22-2007, 11:30 AM

How about Kreachers transformation to cheery and helpful? That was hilarious.

DevinFuture · 07-22-2007, 12:29 PM

Wow. What a great final book to the series.
When Kingsley's patronus announced that "Scrimgeour is dead. The Ministry has fallen. They are coming" I just about dropped the book.
Very emotional book.
Mad-Eye going out early. The penseive scenes in which Snape cried. Dobby's sacrifice. Kreacher leading the Hogwarts house elves in a charge against the death eaters.
The Prince's Tale was definitely my favorite chapter. I had to reread it to process it all.
I was so glad there was a big battle at Hogwarts. I was looking forward to that.
Mrs. Weasley going off on Belatrix was great. You Bitch! Not my daughter!
And I agree with Chicken Diavlo, the Dumbledore / Grindelvald backstory was great.

Kirobaito · 07-22-2007, 01:22 PM

Well, Dobby could still be put in the HBP movie to remind us of him. Remember, he helps Kreacher to tail Malfoy, should that be included.

Flacolaco · 07-22-2007, 02:13 PM

So let's see....

Fred
Mad-eye
Lupin
Tonks
Snape
Pettigrew
Voldemort
Hedwig
Dobby
Scrimgeour

Who else?

She had said that 2 major characters were going to bite it. Which 2 did she mean? What a phuking blood bath! She had also said that one character was going to die, but got a "reprieve," I assume she means Hagrid maybe? She kept on trying to kill him.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-22-2007, 02:21 PM

i'll be the reprieve was for hagrid. although, i wouldn't have cared if he died, honestly.

DevinFuture · 07-22-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

So let's see....

Fred
Mad-eye
Lupin
Tonks
Snape
Pettigrew
Voldemort
Hedwig
Dobby
Scrimgeour

Who else?

She had said that 2 major characters were going to bite it. Which 2 did she mean? What a phuking blood bath! She had also said that one character was going to die, but got a "reprieve," I assume she means Hagrid maybe? She kept on trying to kill him.

Colin Creevey
Bellatrix Lestrange

DevinFuture · 07-22-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

She had also said that one character was going to die, but got a "reprieve," I assume she means Hagrid maybe?

I think that's a good guess

Flacolaco · 07-22-2007, 05:47 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot about Colin. That was pretty sad.

Bellatrix's death was great. Mrs Weasley has a dirty mouth!

Flacolaco · 07-23-2007, 12:06 AM

At the very end of the "The Prince's Tale" chapter (upon reading it again) is definitely the....most shocked, and numb I've ever felt reading a work of fiction, that's for sure.

I hesitated to start the next chapter. knowing then that Harry must die. I read "The Forest Again" in a complete haze.

He of course got to come back, but I couldn't believe what I was feeling and thinking during that time. She really got me there. She got me good with that one.

What a book this is.

I can't believe it's all over.

Dirkgreatness · 07-23-2007, 05:40 AM

Spoiler:

Flacolaco · 07-23-2007, 08:09 AM

How incredibly distasteful

Big Boy Laroux · 07-23-2007, 10:17 AM

lame.

also, who cares that burbage died? no one gives a rat's ass.

so after reading the book, i heard there were people copycatting the drive-by spoiler from the last book. So there's A LOT of them on youtube. only the thing is, a lot of them are yelling spoilers that didn't happen. strange ducks.

Flacolaco · 07-23-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

lame.

also, who cares that burbage died? no one gives a rat's ass.

so after reading the book, i heard there were people copycatting the drive-by spoiler from the last book. So there's A LOT of them on youtube. only the thing is, a lot of them are yelling spoilers that didn't happen. strange ducks.

But still, I'm glad I managed to avoid any of that.

I have my book here at my desk for lunch time....so tempting.

Somehow I kind of raced over that part about what Hermoine did to her parents the first time. Wow.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-23-2007, 11:08 AM

yeah, she is hard core!

Flacolaco · 07-23-2007, 11:32 AM

There have been a number of unanswered questions starting to crop up that we thought surely wouldn't be there.

For instance, to start off with....what in the hell exactly is supposed to be depicted on the US cover?

The coloring of the sky suggests that final battle, but they were in the Great Hall/Entrance Hall for that, right? Why don't they have wands? Its just weird.

And all that stuff about the department of mystery....what's behind the veil exactly? I guess we can assume it's death. What about that locked room down there that supposedly contained love. I think a lot of people thought that would come into play.

She said someone who couldn't perform magic before, would manage it late in life in "desperate" circumstances. I don't know who that is.

What about "the missing day" stuff? The mysterious time between Harry receiving the scar and the house being destroyed, and the next day when Hagrid bings him to the Dursleys. Who else was with Voldemort that night? How did his wand get retreived from the wreckage. Where was his wan between then and the night in the grave yeard when he re-gained his body?

None of these things are especially pertinent, but they're things we thought we'd know.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-23-2007, 11:42 AM

sounds like we need another book!

yeah, trying to figure out how the cover image fits in... it could be the great hall - remember, that is often enchanted to show the outside sky. but i still have no idea what they're reaching for... and harry's wearing the locket. or maybe it's that sack he got.

jthig32 · 07-23-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

sounds like we need another book!

yeah, trying to figure out how the cover image fits in... it could be the great hall - remember, that is often enchanted to show the outside sky. but i still have no idea what they're reaching for... and harry's wearing the locket. or maybe it's that sack he got.

To me, it's Harry catching Voldemort's wand after the final duel.

But, it's strange that Harry doesn't have a wand. Maybe they decided on the scene and then decided Harry with a wand and Voldemort without one would be too much of a giveaway.

And I do believe that is his moleskin pouch.

Flacolaco · 07-23-2007, 12:05 PM

We can chalk it up to "artists interpretation" I suppose. I was just a little puzzled.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-23-2007, 12:08 PM

i think part of the confusion is that they're not facing each other. that makes it seem like less of a duel.

jmwilliamson · 07-23-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

The coloring of the sky suggests that final battle, but they were in the Great Hall/Entrance Hall for that, right? Why don't they have wands? Its just weird.

Well the great hall had a ceiling that replicates the sky. They fought the battle around dawn so the weird coloring of the sky makes some bit of sense too. As for the no wands.... I'm guessing this is when both of their wands fly into the air and Harry is reaching out to catch them? Otherwise, it makes no sense.

As for the book itself, I enjoyed it. I agree with everybody else here. The epilogue was ridiculously bad. It was like a child had written it.

"When we grow up, you can marry Hermione and I'll marry Ginny and our kids will be best friends like we were and we'll still be best friends too."

Yeah, I know it's fantasy, but c'mon. Every kid thinks stuff like that, but has it ever once really happened? It's going too far, by god!

And I also thought it was really great how one of the most affecting deaths was the death of Dobby. I actually shouted, "NOT DOBBY!" when I read that. hahaha. It's strange that a character that people love so much hasn't really made the cut in the movies.

Also, while I agree that it'll be difficult to make it into a movie due to the fact there seems to be vital plot info on every page, I also got the sense she wrote that movie with the idea of the big screen too. I mean think of how scenes like the 7 Harrry Potter chase, the Gringotts heist and the final battle will look on the big screen. That final battle is full of stuff like giants wrestling and epic duels. It'll be totally star wars/lord of the rings in scale. All of those scenes just felt like they were written to make for exciting portions of the movie. Then of course there are all the suspense moments.... I dunno. I think it could make for one hell of a popcorn movie.

Five-ofan · 07-23-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmwilliamson

Well the great hall had a ceiling that replicates the sky. They fought the battle around dawn so the weird coloring of the sky makes some bit of sense too. As for the no wands.... I'm guessing this is when both of their wands fly into the air and Harry is reaching out to catch them? Otherwise, it makes no sense.

As for the book itself, I enjoyed it. I agree with everybody else here. The epilogue was ridiculously bad. It was like a child had written it.

"When we grow up, you can marry Hermione and I'll marry Ginny and our kids will be best friends like we were and we'll still be best friends too."

Yeah, I know it's fantasy, but c'mon. Every kid thinks stuff like that, but has it ever once really happened? It's going too far, by god!

And I also thought it was really great how one of the most affecting deaths was the death of Dobby. I actually shouted, "NOT DOBBY!" when I read that. hahaha. It's strange that a character that people love so much hasn't really made the cut in the movies.

Also, while I agree that it'll be difficult to make it into a movie due to the fact there seems to be vital plot info on every page, I also got the sense she wrote that movie with the idea of the big screen too. I mean think of how scenes like the 7 Harrry Potter chase, the Gringotts heist and the final battle will look on the big screen. That final battle is full of stuff like giants wrestling and epic duels. It'll be totally star wars/lord of the rings in scale. All of those scenes just felt like they were written to make for exciting portions of the movie. Then of course there are all the suspense moments.... I dunno. I think it could make for one hell of a popcorn movie.

it could make one hell of a movie. the problem is it would be about 10 hours long or it needs to be made into 3 movies. What do you cut from this movie? any of The chases? the thing in the ministry? The wedding? dobby's death(come to think of it they probably would and i would walk out of the damn movie) The bank? The snape scene? The final battle? theres just SOOOOOO much stuff in this movie. OOTP was long but it had alot of filler. this is basically 800 pages and ALL of it is crucial. Theres nothing that you can really cut out. I pity the person who has to adapt this for a 2 hour and 40 minutes screen play

Big Boy Laroux · 07-23-2007, 02:00 PM

they could reduce a lot of the "camp out in the woods" parts. i think a lot of the information dumps they get out there (overhearing ted tonks/dean/etc.) can be consolidated.

Flacolaco · 07-23-2007, 02:08 PM

So how many times did Harry end up "defying" old moldy Voldy?

When he was a baby
End of Sorcerers stone
End of GOF
End of OOTP
The broom chase
Godrics Hollow
"The forest again"
And the last time

I guess that's 8. I was sure she was going to make it 7 times, just for the sake of 7 beng a magically powerful number.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-23-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmwilliamson

As for the book itself, I enjoyed it. I agree with everybody else here. The epilogue was ridiculously bad. It was like a child had written it.

"When we grow up, you can marry Hermione and I'll marry Ginny and our kids will be best friends like we were and we'll still be best friends too."

Yeah, I know it's fantasy, but c'mon. Every kid thinks stuff like that, but has it ever once really happened? It's going too far, by god!

this is exactly the problem i had with the epilogue. i didn't mind at all that there was a chapter that wrapped things up. or that it was set 19 years in the future. the writing style was awful, literally like a kid wrote it.

It's like JK sat down with her kids and said "what do you think should happen?"

"They should all be married and have lotsa lotsa kids! YAY!"

Flacolaco · 07-23-2007, 02:16 PM

lol great lines....

Quote:

“How wonderful! Gnome saliva is enormously beneficial.” Said Mr. Lovegood, seizing Luna’s outstretched fingers and examining the bleeding puncture marks. “Luna, my love, if you should feel any burgeoning talent today – perhaps an unexpected urge to sing opera or to declaims in Mermish – do not repress it! You may have been gifted by the Gernumblies!”

Quote:

“Talking about Muriel?” inquired George, reemerging from the marquee with Fred. “Yeah, she’s just told me my ears are lopsided.

It's such a shame we're not going to get any more of this wizard comedy.

Big Boy Laroux · 07-23-2007, 02:24 PM

i read that Rowling's publishing company in the UK took a big stock hit after DH came out. due to the fact that their best franchise is over.

Chicken Diavlo · 07-23-2007, 02:24 PM

So how about Percy and Dudley coming around?

Percy took me completely off guard.

Flacolaco · 07-23-2007, 02:32 PM

I thought the Percy thing seemed a little forced on her part. Not the fact that he came around, but where she put it. Like she kind of forgot about it and shoe-horned it in there. May just be me though. I really don't care for him that much, he hasn't been very good for a laugh since POA and the "big head boy" thing.