Vince to Dallas(Dampier say's it a rumor) - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dashthemavfan13 · 07-12-2004, 10:01 PM

I am quoting a GSW fan, who heard this on the radio.

"I heard Dampier on the radio last night.

The interviewer asked what he thinks off the possibility that a J-Rich/Dampier for VC trade is.... Dampier said "it's definitely a possiblity but the big rumor I'm hearing right now is Vince to Dallas."

Who would have thought that? Who exactly would Dallas give up, and what would Toronto want? It doesn't make sense.

SeriousSummer · 07-12-2004, 11:04 PM

Hard to know, Toronto needs a lot of help--they have adequate but not outstanding players (except for Carter) starting and not much in the way of reserves. VC is not an extraordinarily high paid player. This works:'

Dallas trades: PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.4 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes)
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +1.0 ppg, -9.7 rpg, and +1.8 apg.

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
Toronto receives: PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 56 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 58 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 33 games)
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.0 ppg, +9.7 rpg, and -1.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Maybe Toronto would want some long term depth, if it's not too expensive, given how hard it is to get players to go to Canada because of the taxes. Along with Alston, Rose, Bosch and Araujo, this would give Toronto an almost decent team. You could substitute Bradley, but only if we have another center already lined up. I would have liked to send them Finley or Stackhouse as part of the deal, but Finley makes too much (unless we took back some other junk) and we'd have to wait another six weeks to include Stackhouse.

grndmstr_c · 07-12-2004, 11:52 PM

SS, I don't see any way Toronto would go for that. Josh Howard and trash does not Vince Carter make.

Psychedelic Fuzz · 07-12-2004, 11:54 PM

you might be able to convince me toronto would do it, but why would we?

grndmstr_c · 07-12-2004, 11:56 PM

Quote:

you might be able to convince me toronto would do it, but why would we?

Do you mean generically trade Vince, or take SS's proposed deal for him?

PepperTheMavsFan41 · 07-12-2004, 11:57 PM

I could see it if we took on Rose as well.

EricaLubarsky · 07-12-2004, 11:57 PM

We would kill every team in the league with our SFs alone

Carter, Finley, Stackhouse, Howard...

Add a point guard and we would have average-sized ball.

Psychedelic Fuzz · 07-13-2004, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

Quote:

you might be able to convince me toronto would do it, but why would we?

Do you mean generically trade Vince, or take SS's proposed deal for him?

I mean trade vince to dallas, SS's proposal or any other. I don't get why Dallas would be after him, unless it's just to move contracts or clear roster spots.

SeriousSummer · 07-13-2004, 12:05 AM

Grandmaster C. I don't see why they'd do it either, but I couldn't find anything better that was immediately available. You can make it a little better by waiting for six weeks and including Stackhouse, but even that isn't much better.

Look at Toronto's team, though, and Najera, Delk and Fortson are a lot better than its reserves, maybe better than some of its starters.

You have to face it, though, unless a team wants Walker and Laettner's expiring contracts, we don't have that much to offer. We won't trade Dirk, can't trade Daniels or Harris right now and Finley isn't worth what he's paid.

The best we have to offer is Howard, then Bradley, Najera and Delk. Laettner and Stackhouse, subject to trade restrictions.

The only other thing we could offer is Walker & Howard for Carter & junk. I don't know if that's better,

EricaLubarsky · 07-13-2004, 12:05 AM

Killer deal by SS.

We would open up 3 roster spots AND we would have a semi-movable player.

grndmstr_c · 07-13-2004, 12:13 AM

Quote:

I could see it if we took on Rose as well.

Pepper, I'd tend to agree with you. We really don't have equal value to send to Toronto outside of Dirk, and that's obviously out of the question. Only way would be to give them some kind of package built around former all-stars, expiring contracts, and/or young talent like JHo. That, and take somebody like Rose or Williams off their hands.

Quote:

I don't get why Dallas would be after him, unless it's just to move contracts or clear roster spots.

They'd be after him because he's a heck of a player. Even if he doesn't fill a need, if Dallas had the opportunity to land him using a package of inferior pieces I'd hope they'd pull the trigger.

mavs413 · 07-13-2004, 01:53 AM

How About a Four Way:

Dallas Trades:
A. Walker
J. Howard
E. Najera
T. Delk

Dallas Gets:............PG - Daniels/Harris
V. Carter.................SG - Finley/Stack
S. Anderson.............SF - Carter/Anderson
N. Mohammed..........PF - Dirk/Fortson
NY or Toronto 1st......C - Bradley/Laettner

Toronto Trades:
V. Carter
L. Murray
1st Rounder

Toronto Gets.......PG - Alston/Williams
A. Walker............SG - Rose/Peterson
J. Howard............SF - Marshall/Howard
D. Wagner...........PF - Walker/Moiso
..............................C - Bosh/Araujo

Cleveland Trades:
Z. Illgauskas
D. Wagner

Cleveland Gets:.......PG - McInnis/Ollie
K. Thomas................SG - James/Delk
T. Delk......................SF - Williams/Murray
L. Murray..................PF - Boozer/Battie
NY or Toronto 1st......C - Thomas/Diop

New York Trades:
K. Thomas
S. Anderson
N. Mohammed
1st Rounder

New York Gets:.......PG - Williams/Norris
Z. Illgauskas...........SG - Marbury/Hardaway
E. Najera.................SF - Houston/Ariza
...............................PF - Thomas/Najera
.................................C - Illgauskas/Mutombo

kg_veteran · 07-13-2004, 07:29 AM

From the New York Daily News this morning:

Trade winds are swirling around Kurt

Kurt Thomas is rumored to be on his way to Cleveland, Golden State or Dallas.

Kurt Thomas returned to New York late Sunday to have the cast removed from his surgically repaired right hand. He's now wondering if his visit to the doctor's office will represent his last official act as a member of the Knicks.

The trade rumors that have shadowed Thomas throughout his six seasons with the Knicks are hotter than ever. One scenario would have Thomas heading to Cleveland for center Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

A more complicated deal would have Thomas as part of a four-team trade that would center around Vince Carter moving from Toronto to Dallas.

The Knicks' side of the deal would include multiple players, with Thomas ending up in Dallas or Golden State and Shandon Anderson going to Toronto. The Knicks would be getting Antoine Walker from Dallas and Erick Dampier from Golden State. (NOTE: Yeah, right.)

"You hear a lot of rumors so maybe something is going to happen," Thomas said yesterday. "I have no idea if I'm going to be here. I just know that when training camp starts, wherever I am, I'm going to be in great shape."

Knicks president Isiah Thomas is working on several deals, all of which seem to include trading away veteran players who either did not like working for Thomas or playing with Stephon Marbury or both. Those players include Kurt Thomas, Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo and Othella Harrington.

Toronto and Dallas are recruiting several teams in an effort to deal Carter to the Mavs. The Knicks can only get involved if the trade for Chicago's Jamal Crawford falls through, which is entirely possible.

The Knicks are offering a package of Anderson, Harrington, Frank Williams, Cezary Trybanski and Moochie Norris for Crawford, Eddie Robinson and Jerome Williams.

Chicago is insisting on Dikembe Mutombo instead of Norris and the stalemate is threatening to kill the deal. The Knicks may attempt to sign Crawford to an offer sheet but there are several factors working against them. Crawford is a restricted free agent and the Bulls have the right to match any offer.

The Knicks are over the salary cap, so the maximum they can offer Crawford is $40 million over six years. In the proposed sign-and-trade deal involving the Knicks and Bulls, Crawford would receive $60 million over six years. In other words, Crawford essentially would be agreeing to a $20 million pay cut.

Isiah Thomas, though, is committed to adding more scorers to his roster, as evidenced by his interest in Crawford and Walker. Kurt Thomas, who had surgery on his right pinkie last month, is obvious trade bait because he has a reasonable contract and has been a consistent performer the last three years.

"My finger feels great," he said. "I've never been better."

Originally published on July 13, 2004

Link

The NY press has picked up on it. That means this all probably a complete fabrication.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

aexchange · 07-13-2004, 07:59 AM

if we pick up VC and thomas, i'll be happy as a pig in mud.

assuming we can't get rid of finley.

daniels
finley
carter
nowitzki
kurt thomas

madape · 07-13-2004, 08:12 AM

HOly poop! Vinsanity to Dallas for Antoine Walker! Is it possible? It's far too early for Christmas, but if Toronto wants to give us an early present, I won't turn it down.

Dooby · 07-13-2004, 08:33 AM

Why on earth are you people remotely interested in this? When I heard this on the radio, I could taste the vomit in my mouth. Is there a player in the league who'se "bang to hype" ration is more out of whack than Vince Carter?

Mark my words, Vince Carter on this team would be an unmitigated disaster. He plays no D. He barely rebounds. Fewer assists and more turnovers a game than Walker. He's a bigger lockerroom cancer than Walker. Yes, he can go to the basket, but he likes his jumpshot too. His contract is just as long as Dirk's.

One training camp with Don Nelson he'll be shooting threes all day and night.

The only solace I take is this is from a NY paper. This would be terrible. Terrible. terrible.

kg_veteran · 07-13-2004, 08:39 AM

I've gotta side with Dooby on this. Carter is the last thing this team needs. We already have his twin at half the price (Stackhouse). Except Stackhouse occasionally defends and doesn't have the monstrous ego that Carter does.

This whole swirling rumor might make some sense if Carter ends up headed to GS and Dampier ends up headed to Dallas. Not a fan of Dampier either, but at least he plays a position of need.

withoutmalice · 07-13-2004, 09:24 AM

V. Carter would be a terrible acquisition for us because:

a. he's injury-prone - exactly how many full seasons has he played over his career? = 1 out of 6 seasons in the league

b. he's turned into a one-dimensional jump-shooter because of (a) - he rarely ever penetrates into the lane anymore to dunk or do a layup through traffic because he's afraid someone will knock him down or that he'll roll his ankle when he lands

c. he's a whiny primadonna with a huge ego - he's accustomed to being THE guy in TOR so how would he take being just one of the guys on a team with a ton of depth and scorers?

d. he can't play defense - his +/- would be about 0 if such a stat was kept - because of his injury problems he's afraid of physical contact and would thus be a terrible fit at SF, a position that requires a player to often work in the paint and help out with rebounding and doubling and blocking out the other team's post players

e. he's got a huge contract

Believe me, I'm in Canada so I know what's going with the Raptors and V. Carter, enough to know that TOR fans want to get rid of Carter more than they want to keep him because they no longer think he's worthy of being deemed a "franchise player". TOR will be very very lucky if they can get rid of him because really he's untradeable as every other team in the league is aware of the aforementioned flaws.

grbh · 07-13-2004, 09:52 AM

Carter has become on of the most vilified players on NBA message boards. I admit he has issues. Hias health has been an issue, he has never been clutch, etc. I would however like to set the record striaght on several mistatements I have heard.

1. If Nellie had him he would just launch 3s. Maybe, but is that such a terrible thing. His 3 point % is almost the same as Dirk.

2. His plus minus would be a 0 if such a stat were kept: Actually it is and Carter had the highest plus minus on his team by a large margin (out of players who played any minutes)

3. Comparisons to Stackhouse need to stop. The two aren't close as players IMO. Their fg% alone is a huge difference. Not to mention 3points%, and Stackhouse is mroe O prone

i'm not saying Carter is the answer, and he does create a logjam at the 2/3. Regardless he is super talented, and the Mavs would be foolsih not to accept any offer of Carter for Walker and garbage.

EricaLubarsky · 07-13-2004, 09:58 AM

I get all my NBA news and rumor from the source- Erick Dampier.

grbh · 07-13-2004, 10:04 AM

Link

www.erickdampier,com/rumors_vescey

Drbio · 07-13-2004, 10:09 AM

Vescey and Dampier? It must be true. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

GIGEMLAW · 07-13-2004, 12:27 PM

My earlier trade suggestion on another thread went something like this:

Dallas Trades:

Finley - 4 yrs remaining
Fortson - 3 yrs. remaining
Delk - 2 yrs. remaining
Bradley - 4 yrs. remaining
Future First Rounder

Toronto Trades:

Rose - 3 yrs. remaining
Carter - 4 yrs. remaining

This gets rid of Finley's bad contract, Fortson's contract, and the spare named Delk. It gives the Mavs a nice roster downsizing. Allows them to add a PG/SG in Rose. The would have less of a glut at the SF position.

Lineup would look like

Rose/Harris/Steffanson/AJ
Daniels/Stackhouse
Carter/Howard/TAW
Dirk/Walker/Najera
?/Laetner/Benga/P-Pod

? would be the addition of a Center - someone like Ilgauskas or Dampier through the trade chips of Walker, Laetner, and Stackhouse. Also, you could swap Forston and Laetner in the Deal if TOR required it.