The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The reports were that he did like the specific move of JJ (from which we can conclude that he clearly could've cared less about JJ's contract). And Dallas didn't have the luxury of having bird rights on Deron. Any aggressive moves by Dallas would have taken them out of the picture entirely. The simple fact of the matter is that Brooklyn was better positioned than Dallas in the Deron sweepstakes, and, acting on conversations they'd legally been allowed to have with Deron for months but which Dallas had been prohibited from having until only a few days ago, they very aggressively pushed their advantage to nudge the deal across the finish line. That's totally different from Dallas blowing it.

If it wasn't blown (you're probably right, Dallas' hands were tied), it was miscalculated then.

Don't go into a gun fight with a knife as they say.

(note: this is a very chum-like post).

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

If it wasn't blown (you're probably right, Dallas' hands were tied), it was miscalculated then.

Don't go into a gun fight with a knife as they say.

(note: this is a very chum-like post).

But how do you even know that it was miscalculated? Just because heads doesn't come up on a coin toss doesn't mean you were wrong when you calculated that the odds of it doing so were 50/50.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

But how do you even know that it was miscalculated? Just because heads doesn't come up on a coin toss doesn't mean you were wrong when you calculated that the odds of it doing so were 50/50.

I don't think coin toss is the right analogy.

We can argue all the pre-meeting factors and their values (roster talent, FO vs FO, Avery vs Rick, hometown vs marketing opportunities, 25M vs state tax, etc, etc) but the difference is that Dallas basically came into the meetings with all their cards out while Nets came in with a couple cards to go.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I don't think coin toss is the right analogy.

We can argue all the pre-meeting factors and their values (roster talent, FO vs FO, Avery vs Rick, hometown vs marketing opportunities, 25M vs state tax, etc, etc) but the difference is that Dallas basically came into the meetings with all their cards out while Nets came in with a couple cards to go.

I wasn't implying that the odds were 50/50 (I neither know what they were, nor what the Mavs anticipated them being), but rather that the setting was probabilistic rather than deterministic. In that sense the coin toss is a perfectly valid analogy: whatever the outcome, it does not imply a miscalculation of the odds.

[chumdawg]

"The simple fact of the matter is that Brooklyn was better positioned than Dallas in the Deron sweepstakes."

If that is true, then the odds weren't 50/50. If the odds were 50/50, then that is not true.

[rabbitproof]

You're right - I don't know what probability the Mavericks assigned to this beforehand so perhaps they calculated the Nets making a flurry of moves and their prospective impacts to Deron's decision accurately. Or at the least, and more likely, the MBT calculated the Nets could only impact Deron's decision by a not game ending amount with a few days in free agency through non-Deron personnel moves.

However, judging from JKidd's comments, the odds shifted quite a bit with the Nets' moves, thus, I am assuming things changed more than they anticipated. You're right I could be wrong but I think everybody was surprised by what the Nets did. Did anybody foresee the Nets' forgoing their Dwight chance to get JJ without giving up a real asset (MarShon or Lopez) to get Deron? It was a twist - people thought the Nets' would play their chance to get Dwight card as a selling point (while assuming that move would devoid the Nets of all their remaining assets). Dwight demanding to go to Brooklyn was actually a potential trump card but when Deron didn't commit with that, that's when the JJ stuff popped up and the Nets did a pretty decent pivot job by keeping all their primary assets while capturing JJ with just expirings.

I don't think (I could be wrong) the Mavs assumed the Nets would land a "big fish" (JJ qualifies) before Deron was going to make his decision. I think the Mavs thought the Nets were all in on Dwight and all the risks that were involved with that (might not happen, Dwight is kinda coocoo, it would cost them Lopez/Brooks/1sts).

For all we know, Deron wants to be the man. Dwight might've impeded on that and JJ doesn't.

I'm getting myself mixed up with all this game/trade theory.

[Murphy3]

JJ qualifies? You sure about that?

[rabbitproof]

Yes. He is definitely big enough to be part of any big three and as 2nd bananas go, he's a top five 2nd banana.

JJ would probably be the best player All-Star Dirk ever played with. A couple seasons from Nash/Finley's best Dallas years would be similar.

[grndmstr_c]

I think you're overrating JJ.

[Murphy3]

Yeah, I think so too.

[BGMaverick9]

Via twitter: A source, John Gambadoro, a sports radio talk host in Phoenix, is tweeting that Nash is going to the Lakers via sign and trade for "multiple picks."

[rabbitproof]

That would suck.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Via twitter: A source, John Gambadoro, a sports radio talk host in Phoenix, is tweeting that Nash is going to the Lakers via sign and trade for "multiple picks."

Well, this is making my prediction of Kidd/West being our PG next year a real possibility.

Anyone getting excited about overpaying for Lin?

[NoTnERb]

The Mavs FO standing pat, not doing anything, smh. This is disappointing. And here I was all excited with the idea that this is the first off season in the Cuban era that we had some flexibility.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by NoTnERb

The Mavs FO standing pat, not doing anything, smh. This is disappointing. And here I was all excited with the idea that this is the first off season in the Cuban era that we had some flexibility.

don't worry, we should still be flexible for many offseasons to come

[b_o_r]

Financial Flexibility is worthless if you are only going to offer players 1 or 2 yr deals.

[Windmill360]

@ESPN_Caplan: One more comforting fact is Lakers turned Mavs trade exemption from Mavs in Odom deal into Nash.

Damn weve been burned so many times since that deal now.

[Murphy3]

So, they blew up the championship team so that they could stand pat and waste at least two years of Dirk in his prime.

Wow, excellent.

[NoTnERb]

Originally Posted by xrobx

don't worry, we should still be flexible for many offseasons to come

I honestly don't care about flexibility anymore, I care about the guy in the middle of your sig and giving him the biggest chance of winning another ring. Even if he doesn't win a ring anymore, I'll be happy knowing that we gave him the best support that we could offer year in and year out until he retires. We owe him that much. Hell, we owe him even more. A few years of sucking would be fine with me after Dirk retires.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by NoTnERb

I honestly don't care about flexibility anymore, I care about the guy in the middle of your sig and giving him the biggest chance of winning another ring. Even if he doesn't win a ring anymore, I'll be happy knowing that we gave him the best support that we could offer year in and year out until he retires. We owe him that much. Hell, we owe him even more. A few years of sucking would be fine with me after Dirk retires.

Man that is over. The mbt value financial flexibility above all else right now.

[NoTnERb]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Man that is over. The mbt value financial flexibility above all else right now.

Hence me saying that was my take. I know MBT has to take into account the organization as a whole and not just dirk.

[nowhereman]

IDK if this has been posted, but

"Honestly, it came down to the roster," Kidd said. "Brooklyn made moves that improved the roster dramatically, and he saw things were going that way. That would be my opinion from looking on the outside. He felt that if Dirk goes down he's sitting with himself."

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...llas-mavericks

[Windmill360]

Man if they are really sticking to their guns with this fanancial flex why not just attempt to move Dirk? Seriously hes 20 million and not getting any younger.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

Man if they are really sticking to their guns with this fanancial flex why not just attempt to move Dirk? Seriously hes 20 million and not getting any younger.

Because he's a superstar. The whole point of financial flexibility is to find ANOTHER superstar.

[Windmill360]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Because he's a superstar. The whole point of financial flexibility is to find ANOTHER superstar.

I wonder if dirk will accept tht answer. As far as this year is concerned, all of them are gone.

[stoble]

I'll try to find it but I think not too long ago Dirk said something along the lines of being too old for a rebuild.

Edit, here is the link.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...-dallas-sports

[clutch#41]

im down to trade dirk. no point of him being here if we're going to be in rebuilding mode. if nash can get 2 1st's and 2 2nd rounders, the mavs will get good in return for dirk. in 3-5 years we will be a young team like OKC and competing again for a championship.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

im down to trade dirk. no point of him being here if we're going to be in rebuilding mode. if nash can get 2 1st's and 2 2nd rounders, the mavs will get good in return for dirk. in 3-5 years we will be a young team like OKC and competing again for a championship.

You're assuming that our front office would know how to draft. Besides getting lucky on the Tractor Traylor trade, who have we gotten? Josh Howard and who else?

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by howdoesmydirktaste

You're assuming that our front office would know how to draft. Besides getting lucky on the Tractor Traylor trade, who have we gotten? Josh Howard and who else?

Well then, Donnie I'm telling you as your father. Do not take the Russian.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

im down to trade dirk. no point of him being here if we're going to be in rebuilding mode. if nash can get 2 1st's and 2 2nd rounders, the mavs will get good in return for dirk. in 3-5 years we will be a young team like OKC and competing again for a championship.

A) Never, ever, ever, will I condone trading Dirk. He's had numerous chances to abandon this city for greener acres and brighter lights but he stayed loyal. I, for one, will return the favor.

B) He has a no-trade clause anyway.


It's weird... seeing as how I was against this whole strategy from the get-go, and got chastised on this very board for being vocal against it, I've been reserved to this outcome for quite some time. Rather than the anger and vitriol so many mavs fans seem to have because we didn't sign Deron/wasted another year of Dirk's career, all I'm left with is me just feeling bad for Dirk more than anger at the MBT. He's Charlie Brown and Dimwit Donnie is Lucy, lifting the football at the last second time and time again.


MFFL though.

[Windmill360]

Trading Dirk doesnt mean you trade him just anywhere. Obviously he has a no trade clause. You would work with him and get his consent to go to the best situation posible and then see how much you can get from that. Trading him to a contender, though, probably means you wont get as good of value as trading him to a team thats perenialy in the lotto, but you have to take the good with the bad.

[alby]

Problem is we will NEVER get back adequate value for Dirk. It may be in the Mavs' best interest to let him play out his contract. I know that sucks for Dirk but we can't screw the organization just to make him happy.

I don't know, I'm wavering on this. Honestly, I'm just frustrated with this whole situation and I don't see the outlook getting any better any time soon. To top it off, we're going to bring back Jason Kidd, which pisses me off again.

[stuportremens]

Originally Posted by alby

Problem is we will NEVER get back adequate value for Dirk. It may be in the Mavs' best interest to let him play out his contract. I know that sucks for Dirk but we can't screw the organization just to make him happy.

I don't know, I'm wavering on this. Honestly, I'm just frustrated with this whole situation and I don't see the outlook getting any better any time soon. To top it off, we're going to bring back Jason Kidd, which pisses me off again.

Unfortunately, the Mavs anyway can't make use of Dirk on the team as it looks currently. The current absolute best case scenario is to compete for the 8th spot and a quick playoff exit against OKC / LAL. The more probable scenario would be 10th or 11th place in the West and miss the playoffs. And I don't see that changing this offseason because the good free agents are off the market and the Mavs don't have the assets to trade for anybody who can get us back into contention.
And next offseason won't change the situation either, because the Mavs still won't be able to offer as much money to top free agents than their current team can and they still won't have interesting trade assets.

So, from the team's perspective, unless the big goal is to keep a team that's mediocre at best, the only viable solution would be to trade Dirk, get what you can and go into rebuild mode instantly. Otherwise you'd just prolong the sad interim period.

From a fan's perspective, trading Dirk to a contender would mean that one could at least cheer for Dirk while the Mavs are in rebuild mode - which would possibly be shortened by the picks and players that could be aquired for Dirk.

And from Dirk's perspective, he already said that he's too old for a rebuild. So, it's either staying for a rebuild - which would be pointless for him (because he'd probably be retired by the time the new team's ready to contend for a title), retire now or get traded to a place where he can play for another title. And he can always come back to Dallas in whatever role in two years if he wants to. Pretty easy choice if you ask me.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by alby

Problem is we will NEVER get back adequate value for Dirk. It may be in the Mavs' best interest to let him play out his contract. I know that sucks for Dirk but we can't screw the organization just to make him happy.

I don't know, I'm wavering on this. Honestly, I'm just frustrated with this whole situation and I don't see the outlook getting any better any time soon. To top it off, we're going to bring back Jason Kidd, which pisses me off again.

This. It's just absolutely dirty the way we said byebye to JET and offered Kidd a multiyear deal, according to Sefko.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The idea of trading Dirk is silly since players can now play at a high level into their late 30s- early 40s. The idea of wasting years late in Dirk's career is equally silly as far as I see it. What happens if the Mavs strike out again next offseason? Are we really going to go through the same crap?

[oilfieldtrash]

Bring Cadbane back. Basketball is dead in Dallas for the foreseeable future. Need entertainment somewhere.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

I wonder if dirk will accept tht answer. As far as this year is concerned, all of them are gone.

People actually think Dirk is going to demand a trade? Really?

[Murphy3]

I can't imagine that he'll demand a trade. It might come to a point in which the Mavs ask Dirk if he's willing to accept a trade.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I can't imagine that he'll demand a trade. It might come to a point in which the Mavs ask Dirk if he's willing to accept a trade.

I'd say that's more likely, but that's taking into account the chances that he'd demand a trade is less than 5%. I highly, highly doubt he's going anywhere.

[dude1394]

Maybe his new sweetie-peetie would like to live someplace else?