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Old 02-15-2010, 02:50 PM   #41
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@ Stress:
You are right, but you can´t handle it another way with 20k+ users... You must know that the board is designed for a very special group of earthlings. What do you need friends for when you have to spread around ? When you are sports addicted, you don´t need to meet other humanoids, you don´t need a sexlife, because it sucks the power you need for watching sports from unathletic people and gives it to women. And the most important point: We have opened 24/7 !
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
Funny, because that Barea thread was in response to what people were talking about in another thread altogether - it's the perfect example of a needless thread.

Not only that, but it was a confusing thread title since all the other "appreciation" threads going up were for recently-traded players - that's why there's about a dozen posts in that thread where people thought Barea was being traded.

And really - why the hell were we talking about JJB in the middle of giant trade that had nothing to do with him? Oh, I know - because the original poster wanted to create a "look at me" moment to declare his love for a player who has become completely irrelevant on this squad...

Yeah, thanks for wasting my time.
You can do better than that. I think we should let this community decide whether or not it's the way to go to discuss (or even, God forbid, appreciate) JJB instead of immediately declaring this or any other thread as not worthy of being existent at all and thus discourage users from starting new threads in general. If the community wants to discuss something, it will discuss it and thereby justify the new thread. If the community doesn't want to, the thread will go down pretty soon.

Again, I pretty much love the fact that this forum's discussions are structured the way they are. However, I don't have a problem with new threads as long as they make sense and lead to an interesting debate. That's why we should all be interested in not creating an environment that keeps readers and potential contributors from starting new threads simply because of being afraid of some sort of backlash from other (established) users.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:00 PM   #43
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So what's the solution - have the mods split a thread in half whenever "people with a life" deem it to be too long?

Nobody is stopping a new thread from being posted, but if the content of the thread is irrelevant, then you're going to hear about it from other posters. Don't waste my time with a stupid thread and I won't waste yours with a stupid response...
Well, if you think a thread is pointless/irrelevant, then don't respond to it. It'll die on its own very quickly..

Seems much easier than having 10 people rate every thread or bash ones they deem un-worthy or irrelevant. If a thread is irrelevant, then just don't respond
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:01 PM   #44
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I think every thread that evolves into a deep, long discussion should have four sub- threads:

-The first should be a Cliff's notes type of thing where the most cogent arguments are boiled down into few simple posts and all interesting links are put into another post;

-The second sub-thread should do basically the same thing except with really small words and cartoons and stuff, so that rockets fans can follow along;

-The third sub-thread should catalog all the modestly funny and irrelevant and useless stuff that finds it way into the discussion so that I can get some recognition;

-the fourth sub-thread should have naked pics of the female members of U'dogs family, so i'll have something to do when I'm bored at work.

I'd appreciate it if the mods would get to work on this important project.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:02 PM   #45
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You can do better than that. I think we should let this community decide whether or not it's the way to go to discuss (or even, God forbid, appreciate) JJB instead of immediately declaring this or any other thread as not worthy of being existent at all and thus discourage users from starting new threads in general. If the community wants to discuss something, it will discuss it and thereby justify the new thread. If the community doesn't want to, the thread will go down pretty soon.

Again, I pretty much love the fact that this forum's discussions are structured the way they are. However, I don't have a problem with new threads as long as they make sense and lead to an interesting debate. That's why we should all be interested in not creating an environment that keeps readers and potential contributors from starting new threads simply because of being afraid of some sort of backlash from other (established) users.
Thats the problem - the JJB thread only existed in the first place because original poster wanted to make a whole new thread in response to a single post in another thread. He didn't want to start a fresh discussion on a new topic - he wanted to be SEEN, otherwise his post would have been buried in the original thread because it was irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Some people treat starting a new thread the same as typing in all caps, as if stating an opinion LOUDER makes it more relevant...
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:05 PM   #46
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I know I don't want this board to turn into db.com. That place has 3 threads to discuss Matt Carroll's headband. Way too much. I think dallas-mavs might be a little too much on the opposite side, though. I would personally prefer a few more threads, and less books, because honestly, once a thread is 7-8 pages long its really hard to come in and spread your own opinions on the main post of the thread because invariably that same post has been dissected, talked about, and the discussion has moved on to a similar, but different topic. Then your post, which you thought was insightful commentary, turns into rehashed opinions of three or four other users, often without you even knowing it because you didn't take the time to read pages 3 and 4 before posting.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
Thats the problem - the JJB thread only existed in the first place because original poster wanted to make a whole new thread in response to a single post in another thread. He didn't want to start a fresh discussion on a new topic - he wanted to be SEEN, otherwise his post would have been buried in the original thread because it was irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Some people treat starting a new thread the same as typing in all caps, as if stating an opinion LOUDER makes it more relevant...
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS...NOBODY HERE TYPES IN ALL CAPS.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:07 PM   #48
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Well, if you think a thread is pointless/irrelevant, then don't respond to it. It'll die on its own very quickly..

Seems much easier than having 10 people rate every thread or bash ones they deem un-worthy or irrelevant. If a thread is irrelevant, then just don't respond
I don't want useless threads to die on their own - I want to be the Hand of God that buries them myself (after much gnashing and many tears).

Never underestimate the wrath of boredom...



fun fact: users who suffer the public outcry of posting a needless thread rarely make the same mistake twice.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:10 PM   #49
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I know I don't want this board to turn into db.com. That place has 3 threads to discuss Matt Carroll's headband. Way too much. I think dallas-mavs might be a little too much on the opposite side, though. I would personally prefer a few more threads, and less books, because honestly, once a thread is 7-8 pages long its really hard to come in and spread your own opinions on the main post of the thread because invariably that same post has been dissected, talked about, and the discussion has moved on to a similar, but different topic. Then your post, which you thought was insightful commentary, turns into rehashed opinions of three or four other users, often without you even knowing it because you didn't take the time to read pages 3 and 4 before posting.
Not much can be done about that with 23,000 posters on this site - everybody has an opinion (and tangents happen).

You can't control what the ball do...
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:17 PM   #50
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Not much you can do about that with 23,000 posters on this site - everybody has an opinion (and tangents happen).

You can't control what the ball do...
Yes, but they create way too many threads. I guess the bigger problem is that they really don't have any mods that care. But this is dallas-mavs.com, so I'll shut up about db.com.

And by the way...Dirk can control what the ball do.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:22 PM   #51
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Man, I couldn't agree more. I've always thought that was a little odd about this forum as the forum I'm primarily on is an auto forum with nearly 100k members with LOTS of "newbies" and over there we don't discourage new threads or prefer meandering 10+ page threads, either. I've been there ten years now so maybe it's just what I'm used to. But still.

It's really hard to follow along the threads here unless you were literally in on them from their conception. Then if you miss a day or two, you have to read 10 pages to catch up so it's pointless. And if you weren't in on a thread from its conception, and it's a meandering 10 page type, then there's not really any natural human desire to care to read through the whole thing (unless you have no life, as stated). Plus, all the semi-crazy superstition thread rituals/procedures here..

Nonetheless, I guess that's why I have hardly any posts here, and in that regard I'm a n00b but that's still just my $.02
You know I wouldn't mind a 10-page thread if I had an option to get all of the pages at once and then when I come back to it, it puts me back where I was reading. It does get to be a pain when you sort of have to search for your own thread "bookmark".
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:23 PM   #52
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Yes, but they create way too many threads. I guess the bigger problem is that they really don't have any mods that care. But this is dallas-mavs.com, so I'll shut up about db.com.
If you wanna talk about db.com, you'll have to make another thread about it...


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Old 02-15-2010, 03:23 PM   #53
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I think every thread that evolves into a deep, long discussion should have four sub- threads:

-The first should be a Cliff's notes type of thing where the most cogent arguments are boiled down into few simple posts and all interesting links are put into another post;

-The second sub-thread should do basically the same thing except with really small words and cartoons and stuff, so that rockets fans can follow along;

-The third sub-thread should catalog all the modestly funny and irrelevant and useless stuff that finds it way into the discussion so that I can get some recognition;

-the fourth sub-thread should have naked pics of the female members of U'dogs family, so i'll have something to do when I'm bored at work.

I'd appreciate it if the mods would get to work on this important project.
I'll have sike get to work on this immediately.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:24 PM   #54
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How funny would it be if I merged this with the Lost thread.


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Old 02-15-2010, 03:27 PM   #55
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-the fourth sub-thread should have naked pics of the female members of U'dogs family, so i'll have something to do when I'm bored at work.
Do you enjoy puking while you're bored at work?
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:36 PM   #56
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It is difficult to cover all of Basketball 501 in a single thread, you have to admit.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:52 PM   #57
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Old 02-15-2010, 04:29 PM   #58
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how about we put a page limit on the thread?

any discussion longer than, say, 7 pages will necessitate a new thread?
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Old 02-15-2010, 04:54 PM   #59
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Well, if you think a thread is pointless/irrelevant, then don't respond to it. It'll die on its own very quickly..

Seems much easier than having 10 people rate every thread or bash ones they deem un-worthy or irrelevant. If a thread is irrelevant, then just don't respond
"Look at me" threads suck. Instead of ignoring them, I will tell the thread starter that I think they suck. What's wrong with that?

Sometimes, Flaco goes overboard with this and declares just about every new thread a "look at me" thread. But that's his right.
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Old 02-15-2010, 04:58 PM   #60
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Do you enjoy puking while you're bored at work?
These family pics sound pretty kinky...
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:00 PM   #61
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Thats the problem - the JJB thread only existed in the first place because original poster wanted to make a whole new thread in response to a single post in another thread. He didn't want to start a fresh discussion on a new topic - he wanted to be SEEN, otherwise his post would have been buried in the original thread because it was irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Some people treat starting a new thread the same as typing in all caps, as if stating an opinion LOUDER makes it more relevant...
Agree with the your second paragraph. There's no need for a new thread only to talk about something that's already being discussed in another thread.

In regards to the JJB thread, despite its questionable, overused and maybe even irritating title, do you really think he opened it only to be seen? Asking for someone to "come out and disagree with what I am saying" could be the words of a user who wants "to start a fresh discussion on a new topic". Even if he did it only to make his opinion as visible as possible and without any interest in discussing the whole thing any further, there are still reasonable arguments in the opening post to introduce a debate about our beloved scapegoat. In addition, if one knows that a specific point of view either doesn't fit the flow of an existing thread or won't be seen by those who don't follow it, then doesn't it actually make sense to open a new thread on a new topic and have it seen by other users who might be interested in discussing it?

The first replies in the JJB thread basically just questioned its existence without even trying to refer to the contents of the original post that wasn't all that bad to begin with. That might just be a little discouraging and perhaps even unnecessary at times.

This isn't meant to be an excuse for crappy threads, but I think it's possible to still have a decent message board while not being to harsh to new guys as soon as they dare opening a new thread.
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:17 PM   #62
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It doesn't take a brain seargent to know why this board struggles!
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:19 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan View Post
"Look at me" threads suck. Instead of ignoring them, I will tell the thread starter that I think they suck. What's wrong with that?

Sometimes, Flaco goes overboard with this and declares just about every new thread a "look at me" thread. But that's his right.


Yes, it is.

Come on, folks. It's not hard.

Are there people already talking about what you want to post? Have you looked? Are you starting a thread because of laziness? (I don't have time to look)

No? Good.

Do you have an article/video/picture/blog posting that is newsworthy and generally interesting enough to include in your new thread to substantiate your supposedly-thread-worthy-thought, or be the subject of it?

Yes? Good.

Can you punctuate your sentences, find the shift key, and conjugate verbs?

Yeah? Awesome.

Then start the damn thread. I don't care.
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:28 PM   #64
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Wat is conjugate verbs ?
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:55 PM   #65
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I hated it when there was 9 closely related, yet separate threads...because inevitably the conversations bleed together.

I understand that weighing through 13 pages is no fun...but neither is having the same conversation in 5 different threads.

I can see both points of view...but for someone like me who was here for the entire Bulter/Howard trade conversation...it was wonderful to be able to follow the whole thing in one place.
.... actually, it kinda sucked having it all in one huge thread.
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:09 PM   #66
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Stress, I completely understand your concerns. Here are a few of the issues:
1. Many of the guys that posted heavily at this site no longer do so. They had a huge impact on the quality of the board. And honestly, the board suffers without it.
2. There's not nearly as many interesting threads going on at one time. Now, there's maybe only a couple. A few years back, there might have been 4-5+ strong threads going at any one time.
3. Yes, part of the reason as to why there are fewer threads has been due to a concerted effort by some to "streamline" the forum to meet their needs. Yes, many of the guys that have been around for quite awhile don't like it..but, let's be honest... the guys that put this forum on the map don't really have nearly the same impact on this forum that they once had. Why? Unfortunately, people move on. Personally, I still love dallas-Mavs.com, but I just don't have the time to dedicate to it anymore. I used to have a job in which I worked 70-80 hours a week..but, I would have the freedom to stop down for some Dallas-Mavs.com time just about any time I wanted. That's not the case for me in my current working situation. So yeah, the forum is now ran by a bunch of guys that are iffy on their b'ball and mavs knowledge... but, hey, they're damn good with Tags.

So, it sucks, but it's up to the long time members to actually change it. I accept responsibility for the change... But, I don't necessarily have the time to change what the forum has become.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:12 PM   #67
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So harsh Murph, so harsh.

The bottom line is this: After discussing this ad nauseum in the past, we've relaxed on keeping things in threads that already exist. If you want to make a new thread, fine. Whoever started the stupid Barea thread certainly felt fine about it. And all we did was mock the thread.

But honestly, what are we supposed to do about a thread like the Butler thread? It started as a general trade thread. Then the news on Butler specifically accelerated very suddenly, and it very organically became a thread about the Butler trade. Now, we are accused all the time of over-moderating. Should we have shut down that thread and forced everyone to an "Official Caron Butler trade thread" thread? That would strike me as over moderation.

The complaints in the past have been about generic threads where several conversations are going on at once. That is not the case with the Butler thread. It's very focused, it just happens to be very long. So what are we supposed to do? Make a new thread for it every day? Spawn a new thread after a certain post count? That would be stupid.

And honestly, I'm generally completely open to discuss things like this, but starting a complaint thread and then insulting regular posters with crap like "those of us that have a life" is pretty idiotic in my opinion.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:18 PM   #68
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If I could be serious here, I think part of what's happened is that the franchise has kind of gone through two years or so that has kind of lacked in excitement. After a good run starting with the return to the playoffs in 2001 all the way to where this franchise seemed to peak during the 2006 Finals run or the 67 win season, things with the franchise sort of got stale. I wonder if that reflected somewhat on the message board. Threads stopped being created because all there was to talk about was same old, same old.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:19 PM   #69
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Murph constantly reminds us of these anonymous "long time members" who are supposedly better the members here and now... which is ironic because Murph himself is one of the worst members on the forum.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:20 PM   #70
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it will all come down to the members, not the mods, having the idea to start new threads for fresh ideas and carry on those threads.

Like I said before, very few threads get even to 2+ pages...to act like there are a ton of 10 page threads laying around muddying the waters is just misleading. Those huge threads are the exception and not the rule.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:35 PM   #71
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Other than having decent forum software (which this site does--in fact, for my money it has the best forum software available), the only thing that makes a forum good or bad is the quality of the posters. We have some great posters here, although I miss some of the guys who used to post more when I started and are no longer around much. But I couldn't give two you-know-whats whether there are several threads or a single thread for a given topic.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:51 PM   #72
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I'm not sure I agree with Stressboy that the conversation tends to stay in one big thread. Looking back at the last month or so in the General Mavs section, I see lots and lots of threads discussing varied topics.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:55 PM   #73
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:57 PM   #74
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Quote:
Murph constantly reminds us of these anonymous "long time members" who are supposedly better the members here and now... which is ironic because Murph himself is one of the worst members on the forum.
Your sig sums it up.

I miss the old days too. I miss Hoopsmeister, Dooby, etc etc. I'm one of the earliest members on the forum. But for those are constantly whining about the state of the board... why not suck it up and actually contribute to the board and try and make it better? If you tired of the discussion, then start your own discussion. If you tired of cerrtain topics... then start your own damn topics.

But this constant b*tching about the past versus the present is riduculous.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:38 PM   #75
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Shouldn't this be in a different sub-forum?
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:41 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one View Post
Shouldn't this be in a different sub-forum?
Maybe we should start a new thread to discuss this.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:41 PM   #77
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Honestly though, if you guys want lots of threads talking about either the same things or lots of unimportant things, go on down to dallasbasketball.com. You'll love it there.

Personally, I love D-M.com.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:43 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3 View Post
Stress, I completely understand your concerns. Here are a few of the issues:
1. Many of the guys that posted heavily at this site no longer do so. They had a huge impact on the quality of the board. And honestly, the board suffers without it.
2. There's not nearly as many interesting threads going on at one time. Now, there's maybe only a couple. A few years back, there might have been 4-5+ strong threads going at any one time.
3. Yes, part of the reason as to why there are fewer threads has been due to a concerted effort by some to "streamline" the forum to meet their needs. Yes, many of the guys that have been around for quite awhile don't like it..but, let's be honest... the guys that put this forum on the map don't really have nearly the same impact on this forum that they once had. Why? Unfortunately, people move on. Personally, I still love dallas-Mavs.com, but I just don't have the time to dedicate to it anymore. I used to have a job in which I worked 70-80 hours a week..but, I would have the freedom to stop down for some Dallas-Mavs.com time just about any time I wanted. That's not the case for me in my current working situation. So yeah, the forum is now ran by a bunch of guys that are iffy on their b'ball and mavs knowledge... but, hey, they're damn good with Tags.

So, it sucks, but it's up to the long time members to actually change it. I accept responsibility for the change... But, I don't necessarily have the time to change what the forum has become.
I believe there's a picture of a nun next to the term "high horse" in the dictionary.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:45 PM   #79
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^ It's so chaotic there(db.com). I came back. I didn't know "who's who". I couldn't trust anyone and no one listened to me. I felt so... alone. And it was cold.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:02 PM   #80
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Agree with Stress on this one.

One thread does not fit all...some, many topics are better handled with multiple conversations.

But hey, this is still a cool message board...typically these threads that turn into novels we can skip nearly all of the pages, read that last page and respond.

You might say this board is like a soap opera, you can watch one episode a year and still know what's going on :-)
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