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Old 03-08-2010, 03:41 AM   #1
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Default The Question on Everyone's Mind: Can the Mavs Beat the Lakers?

Avery Johnson, Jon Barry, and Michael Wilbon give their take:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip%3Fid%3D4975336

Don't know if this has already been posted, but thought it was pretty interesting. I agree with Avery, and think he is the one who really knows this team better than Barry. But then again, Barry is mostly on target with his analysis. I think a fairly significant possible factor that neither Barry nor Wilbon hit on was Roddy. Neither brought him up, which is fine with me. If I have it my way, Roddy will fly under the radar until the playoffs, although after the last 3 games this won't happen

edit: Wow I was stoned when I wrote this, excuse the seeming contradictions. What I meant in regards to Avery's opinion vs. Barry's opinion was that Avery seems to be much more informed on the Mavs, and while Barry's perception of our team wasn't necessarily wrong, it is not the view that we, as fans, hold. He has, what would be considered to be, a pessimistic view on the Mavs chances at success, while Avery has the optimistic view that I tend to agree with.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:33 AM   #2
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Avery said "Roddy Babo" haha
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:18 AM   #3
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avery is so annoying
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:23 AM   #4
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this is like a viral/underground video..with the crazy shaky camera

Wilbon brought up a good idea..that haywood is better than gortat. Think about it, if the mavs had gortat..they probably wouldn't trade for haywood right?
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:52 AM   #5
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@Avery: Roddy What????

LOL. Why is his voice so annoying? Gah.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:03 AM   #6
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More importantly, we saw in the upset season, that the Mavs had a horrible match-up in the Warriors. Heck, many could and should've seen it coming....but that is perhaps a story for another thread...

The question in need of a response...how do the playoff teams match-up for the Mavs? Do we see any GS type of match-up problems?
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:53 AM   #7
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More importantly, we saw in the upset season, that the Mavs had a horrible match-up in the Warriors. Heck, many could and should've seen it coming....but that is perhaps a story for another thread...

The question in need of a response...how do the playoff teams match-up for the Mavs? Do we see any GS type of match-up problems?
For once, I see no looming, severe match-up problems. The Mavs, IMHO, after the trade have shown that they can play virtually any style of basketball. Hard-nosed, tough, physical, and able to go both big, and small.

The only issue I can see is if we are not able to get out and run against any of the teams we play. We seem to be a pretty average half-court team, but when we get out on the break we are somethin else.

I think our half-court sets will continue to improve as Haywood/Butler/Stevenson continue to learn the offensive sets and get a little cohesiveness with the rest of the Mavs. They've already done quit a bit of gelling, no doubt about it. But we need to look more fluid in our half-court sets. But again, I'm not really worried about this aspect, as I think it will automatically improve as the season finishes out, once we get everyone healthy in the next couple weeks.

In answer directly to your question, I don't see a kryptonite to our Mavs team out there in the West
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:30 AM   #8
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The LA lakers aren't unbeatable, hell a healthy Mavs team is now more talented than a healthy lakers team. You have Kobe who's the best player on the floor, but then you have Dirk, Kidd, Butler, Terry, Haywood and the lakers counter with Odom and Pau. Bynum doesn't count because he's just a big body.

I would be 100% confident of a win against anyone except for Denver, they're the scariest team in the NBA right now.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:37 AM   #9
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The LA lakers aren't unbeatable, hell a healthy Mavs team is now more talented than a healthy lakers team. You have Kobe who's the best player on the floor, but then you have Dirk, Kidd, Butler, Terry, Haywood and the lakers counter with Odom and Pau. Bynum doesn't count because he's just a big body.

I would be 100% confident of a win against anyone except for Denver, they're the scariest team in the NBA right now.
I gotta disagree wit your analysis of the Lakers. You're right about Kobe/Odom/Pau, but Bynum is most certainly not just a "big body". IMHO Bynum is, without a doubt, the 2nd best center in the NBA today. He is better than Haywood, and he is better than Damp. Bynum's problem only comes when he gets complacent. When he is motivated and focused he is virtually unstoppable.

I also think that, while Denver is most certainly a scary team, they aren't even close to the Lakers' level. Albeit, the Lakers are slumping right now, but if you think Phil won't get those guys back to playing their best basketball by the time the playoffs roll around, you have another thing comin. The Lakers will, barring injury to one of their major players, will be the scariest team in the playoffs. Although Chauncey is a hell of a floor leader and a hell of a pg, I don't think the Thuggets have the discipline to beat us, or the Lakers.

I can see why you see this the way you do, but I tend to disagree with your analysis of the Lakers.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:38 AM   #10
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The LA lakers aren't unbeatable, hell a healthy Mavs team is now more talented than a healthy lakers team. You have Kobe who's the best player on the floor, but then you have Dirk, Kidd, Butler, Terry, Haywood and the lakers counter with Odom and Pau. Bynum doesn't count because he's just a big body.

I would be 100% confident of a win against anyone except for Denver, they're the scariest team in the NBA right now.
1) Bynum has game, he is not just a big body. Thats ridiculous.

2) I think you are in the minority that fears Denver over all the other contenders.

I think at best they are 4th best in the league right behind the Mavs.

LA,CLE,DAL,ATL/DEN... The top 3 in whatever order you like but I would argue that ATL is possibly better than DEN.
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:23 PM   #11
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Nuggets and Jazz cause some minor bad matchups and they are very good. Nothing like Golden State but I still think the Golden State of 2007 would give us problems despite some saying we fixed those problems. I mentioned before that we take many jump shots. Well Golden State of 2007 feeds off jumpers. They love to run and cause turnovers. And Dirk having to guard an athletic player like Stephen Jackson or Al Harrington and Dampier not able to keep up would still be issues. The jazz were able to slow them down due to having a post player in Boozer. The Warriors had no answer for him. And Mehmet Okur and Boozer were slightly better with handling the athleticim and outside shooting the Warriors have.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:28 PM   #12
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If Denver is taken out of the equation LA does not worry me that much. We have new faces which means this Mavs team has been together less then a month and is gelling as a cohesive unit. The Lakers who have played as a team all season are starting to come apart. Spats that should be kept to the locker room are being brought to the attention of the media which is showing their team morale is down which in turn will effect their play.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:18 PM   #13
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I HATE JON BARRY. THAT MORON DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. IF I DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER I WOULD THINK HE IS A LAKER FAN. IT SEEMS HE ALREADY MADE UP HIS MIND THAT DALLAS ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH. WE COULD WIN THE SEASON OUT AND HE STILL WOULDN'T THINK WERE GOOD ENOUGH. HE IS SO DAMN ANNOYING.

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Old 03-08-2010, 04:21 PM   #14
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I HATE JON BARRY. THAT MORON DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT.
I wonder if the fact that he played for Mavs's rivals has anything to do with it....

but he isn't a moron. A very bright, intelligent man. I just feel as if he slightly skews things because of his bias.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:30 PM   #15
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He WAS very pro-trade when news came out of it. I guess he just sees it as a solid move that helps them matchup against the likes of Denver and compete better against LA, but that LA is still the better team.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:33 PM   #16
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He WAS very pro-trade when news came out of it. I guess he just sees it as a solid move that helps them matchup against the likes of Denver and compete better against LA, but that LA is still the better team.
I get the vibe that most people, both analysts and fans, around the league who don't watch every Mavs game like we do, share Barry's opinion on this subject. From what i've read/heard, most people feel as if this trade made us significantly better, and prolly on the same level as Denver, but not as good as LA.

However, we know the truth, muahahahahahahah!!!
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:29 PM   #17
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He WAS very pro-trade when news came out of it. I guess he just sees it as a solid move that helps them matchup against the likes of Denver and compete better against LA, but that LA is still the better team.

And frankly, it remains this way until proven otherwise.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:38 PM   #18
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Anyone actually arguing that the Mavs are a better team than the Lakers needs to be shot. I think a healthy Mavs team has a chance to beat the Lakers, but the Lakers are still the favorites by a wide margin.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:41 PM   #19
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Anyone actually arguing that the Mavs are a better team than the Lakers needs to be shot. I think a healthy Mavs team has a chance to beat the Lakers, but the Lakers are still the favorites by a wide margin.
I concur.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:41 PM   #20
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Anyone actually arguing that the Mavs are a better team than the Lakers needs to be shot. I think a healthy Mavs team has a chance to beat the Lakers, but the Lakers are still the favorites by a wide margin.
We don't know who's better until they play, but that's a different question than who's the favorite.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:47 PM   #21
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We don't know who's better until they play, but that's a different question than who's the favorite.
Let me put it this way then. In a seven game series between the Lakers and Mavs, the Lakers are much more likely to win. I think I'm being optimistic when I give the Mavs a 30-35% chance IF they're healthy. That's a pretty good chance, I think.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:49 PM   #22
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Let me put it this way then. In a seven game series between the Lakers and Mavs, the Lakers are much more likely to win. I think I'm being optimistic when I give the Mavs a 30-35% chance IF they're healthy. That's a pretty good chance, I think.
Dude it's too early to know what this team is capable of. We don't know the percentages. It could be 0%. It could be 70%. There is still a lot of time to find out what this team is capable of.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:53 PM   #23
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Dude it's too early to know what this team is capable of. We don't know the percentages. It could be 0%. It could be 70%. There is still a lot of time to find out what this team is capable of.
So I'm not allowed to have an opinion then, because it's too early? Got it.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:08 PM   #24
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So I'm not allowed to have an opinion then, because it's too early? Got it.
It is what it is. Just an opinion. Not enough data to prove if you're right or wrong with this new unit. But you are free to express what might happen but I think this team needs more time before I consider what they could do. We don't know in what form Dampier will come back in after a month off. A lot of unknowns.

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Old 03-08-2010, 06:11 PM   #25
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It is what it is. Just an opinion. Not enough data to prove if you're right or wrong with this new unit. But you are free to express what might happen but I think this team needs more time before I consider what they could do. We don't know in what form Dampier will come back in after a month off. A lot of unknowns.
Ok then, like I said, I'm giving them 30-35% chance. It's not too early to look at them on paper, and on paper at least, the Lakers are the heavy favorites.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:35 PM   #26
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Lakers are a damn good team. Anyone would be foolish to put us ahead of them at this point, IMO. I see them as a team that's as good as any team over the last decade. We gotta get our guys back and make sure we don't lose any chemistry.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:37 PM   #27
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Ok then, like I said, I'm giving them 30-35% chance. It's not too early to look at them on paper, and on paper at least, the Lakers are the heavy favorites.
On paper...

In reality, the Mavs have been trending upwards since the All-Star break while the Lakers have been trending down. Plus, we beat them without Caron Butler so at least we know we can beat them.

There's strife in their locker room right now. Gasol is sulking, Artest is sucking, JackZen is constantly bitching about an imaginary bias the NBA/refs have against the Lakers.

Not only do I think we can beat them, but I think Denver and Utah could too.

Their armor is chipping.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:41 PM   #28
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On paper...

In reality, the Mavs have been trending upwards since the All-Star break while the Lakers have been trending down. Plus, we beat them without Caron Butler so at least we know we can beat them.

There's strife in their locker room right now. Gasol is sulking, Artest is sucking, JackZen is constantly bitching about an imaginary bias the NBA/refs have against the Lakers.

Not only do I think we can beat them, but I think Denver and Utah could too.

Their armor is chipping.


They need to bench Bynum and start Odom, imho. Pau and Bynum have a hard time playing off each other, and they have played much better with Odom in the starting 5 in years past.

But I hope they keep things the way they have it. I also could see them losing to Denver or Dallas.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:00 PM   #29
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Our chances of beating the Lakers in the playoffs have gone from 20% before ASB to 47.93% post ASB.

Our chances of catching the Lakers in the regular season have gone from 0% before ASB to 50.474% chance post ASB.

Don't question the math behind this it's way beyond your level.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:04 PM   #30
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On paper...

In reality, the Mavs have been trending upwards since the All-Star break while the Lakers have been trending down. Plus, we beat them without Caron Butler so at least we know we can beat them.

There's strife in their locker room right now. Gasol is sulking, Artest is sucking, JackZen is constantly bitching about an imaginary bias the NBA/refs have against the Lakers.

Not only do I think we can beat them, but I think Denver and Utah could too.

Their armor is chipping.
I agree with UD on this one.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:24 PM   #31
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We have a decent chance at beating them. That's more than we had prior to the trade.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:37 PM   #32
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UD, I agree...the problem is, it's not like they have these problems AND they're going to Game 7 right now and it's do or die. They have time to fix the issues.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:38 PM   #33
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Let me put it this way then. In a seven game series between the Lakers and Mavs, the Lakers are much more likely to win. I think I'm being optimistic when I give the Mavs a 30-35% chance IF they're healthy. That's a pretty good chance, I think.
I agree completely, including the 30-35%.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:57 PM   #34
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Our chances of beating the Lakers in the playoffs have gone from 20% before ASB to 47.93% post ASB.

Our chances of catching the Lakers in the regular season have gone from 0% before ASB to 50.474% chance post ASB.

Don't question the math behind this it's way beyond your level.
This one I like...^_^
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:13 PM   #35
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I am actually not too worried about the bigs of Los Angeles anymore. I believe Haywood and Dampier are more than enough to cover us down low to where there isn't a gaping problem, like against Nene last year. I think Andrew Bynum never really plays to his full potential. He has game, but I don't think he plays off of Gasol well and his production is wildly inconsistent. LA had to put a Bynum/Bosh trade rumor out in order to light a fire under his ass to keep him motivated. He seems like the type of player who is bored with the regular season, and its hard to just turn the "on" switch on during the playoffs.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:28 PM   #36
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On paper...

In reality, the Mavs have been trending upwards since the All-Star break while the Lakers have been trending down. Plus, we beat them without Caron Butler so at least we know we can beat them.

There's strife in their locker room right now. Gasol is sulking, Artest is sucking, JackZen is constantly bitching about an imaginary bias the NBA/refs have against the Lakers.

Not only do I think we can beat them, but I think Denver and Utah could too.


Their armor is chipping.
You're right that they don't look nearly as invincible as they did earlier in the season.

The part I put in bold is what intrigues me though. I disagree in that I don't think either of those teams could beat the Lakers. However, in a weird way, those teams, Utah in particular, scare me more than the Lakers do. I think we could probably handle Denver, but Utah always presents problems for us, and I could easily see Williams lighting us up.

In the playoffs it's always about matchups, and I think the Mavs match up with the Lakers better than any other team in the West. I think the Mavs and Nuggets are about equal, maybe a slight edge to the Mavs. I think the Mavs have a better team than the Jazz, but they present matchup problems.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:40 PM   #37
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I think the Mavericks have a slight chance of beating the lakers in a 7-game series where the lakers have home court advantage.

I also think if the Mavs take a look at the Lakers schedule and their own, they will realize how very possible it is to overtake the Lakers as the #1 seed in the west.

Then their chances of beating the lakers in a 7-game series go up significantly, as they will have the home court advantage over the lakers.
and that is assuming the Nuggets don't beat LA in the #2vs#3 matchup prior to facing a mavericks team fresh off short series with the Blazers and jazz.

Another thread is in order which breaks down the details of the race for the #1 seed...

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Old 03-08-2010, 09:43 PM   #38
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Yet i do not yet have enough posts to make my own thread.
So someone else please make a new thread, titled:
"Mavericks overtaking Lakers for the #1 seed"

And I will post ALL the details and percentages/etc., applied to their respective remaining schedules, in the 2nd post of the newly created thread.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:21 PM   #39
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"One month ago, the Western Conference playoff script appeared to be in final editing. A couple of plausible themes were being pitched.

Perhaps the two-month pilot would resemble an episode of "Lost" with innumerable twists and unforeseen storylines.

Or, maybe, a sitcom would best suit the cast of characters. One with the stars -- Kobe Bryant and his teammates -- delivering the punch lines on a cast of various bit players looking to steal an occasional scene.

In that script, you would see an aging actor like the San Antonio Spurs looking for another chance at glory. Added to the mix would be a newcomer in Oklahoma City trying to make a name en route to becoming the next big star. And, of course, there are always the solid prime-time mainstays like Utah and Denver delivering consistently good performances.

The safe bet was on the sitcom, featuring the Lakers making a mockery of the West by rolling through three rounds on their way to their third straight NBA Finals.

Then, suddenly, they found themselves staring at a group of guys intent on rewriting the ending to the story. While L.A. was busy planning a parade route, the Dallas Mavericks were orchestrating the kind of trade that may just give Dirk Nowitzki his best chance at a title.

The additions of Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and DeShawn Stevenson have changed the identity of the Mavs while also making them a complete team.

Prior to the trade, several issues were keeping the Mavs from being a legitimate title contender -- including their lack of perimeter toughness defensively, the inability of their complementary frontcourt players to impact the game offensively, and the inconsistency of their secondary scoring options in big moments. All were major concerns for coach Rick Carlisle.

All were addressed with the trade.

Butler is a perfect fit for three major reasons.

First, his ability to defend multiple positions at a much higher level than his predecessor, Josh Howard, takes a load of pressure off Dirk and point guard Jason Kidd. Butler can combine with Shawn Marion to give the Mavs a tandem that can make any wing tandem they face in the postseason work for everything they get.

Second, Butler gives them a true second scoring option whose production isn't based solely on making long-range jumpers. That will take pressure off Jason Terry and allow him to make his impact felt in fewer minutes and with less team dependence on his jumper's being there night in and night out. Butler gets his points in a variety of ways. He can post. He gets offensive rebounds. He draws fouls. He has a deadly pull-up jumper. And, best of all, he can score without having his number called.

Finally, Butler is rock-solid in the locker room and is a great chemistry guy. He is a quiet leader and a winner. There will be no "acclimation period" since the guy flat-out knows how to play with anyone. It also doesn't hurt that he must feel like he's been given a new lease on life by exiting the disaster otherwise known as the Washington Wizards.

Brendan Haywood gives the Mavs everything Eric Dampier has provided, plus the ability to finish plays around the rim and in transition, which Dampier struggles with. His length will be a huge factor against the Lakers if they meet in the playoffs.

Nowitzki and Kidd have been to three Finals between them but have never had a complete enough cast to bring home any hardware. This is the best team either has played on and, as Dallas' 13-game winning streak indicates, it may be good enough to grab the Larry O'Brien Trophy, if not an Emmy. "

Legler thinks we can do it!! Great article here...on point

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/p...310/daily-dime
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:32 PM   #40
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Hell yea we can beat 'em. We can beat anyone and everyone in this league and have already done it I believe (not sure about denver to be honest).

As legler says it's a 6 team tourney...
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