Offseason 2010 Thread

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The numbers will make it hard to do a Rudy for JET swap. Gotta bring a third team in probably.

[Jack.Kerr]

Celtics, Bulls and Knicks are all apparently interested in Fernández.

Herein is a take on Fernández's game by Oregonian beat writer Jason Quick, who has covered the Blazers for 10 years.

Verdict: Definitely not 'garbage'.

Interesingly, no mention of hair gel or prima donna attitude--just that he's'unhappy'. Offset that by 'unselfish' and high basketball IQ and comparisons to Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton.

Fernandez on the Mavericks is probably moot, because he doesn't seem to be interested in playing Dallas, and because the Mavericks don't seem to have the same level of interest as the Celtics, Bulls or Knicks.

Also, a Terry for Fernández swap probably isn't viable because of how overpaid Terry is and how reasonably paid Fernández is.

But in terms of matching player skills to team needs, and availability to value, he'd be a good acquisition for Dallas.

Celtics In Negotiations For Rudy Fernandez
by Tom Halzack on Jul 28, 2010 2:28 PM EDT in Rumors 64 comments

Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!
by Tom Halzack

The Boston Celtics are currently in the ‘lead position’ in negotiations with the Portland Trailblazers for Rudy Fernandez, according to a source. They have been in serious discussions since yesterday.

Other teams interested include New York and Chicago, but the Celtics are apparently getting the first shot, thus allowing one to assume they are a preferred destination, either in terms of desirability for Rudy or trading pieces for the Blazers.

Because of that information, I contacted Jason Quick, beat writer for the Oregonian (entering his 10th year), who was kind enough to offer an everyday observer and accomplished writer’s view of Rudy Fernandez.

From that conversation…

Jason agrees that Rudy isn’t among the quickest afoot, and doesn’t beat many people off the dribble, but says it wouldn’t be fair to characterize him as slow either. He gets open often by constantly running around the court through screens, similarly to Reggie Miller (or Rip Hamilton – my thought). He also is able to get free of his defender by running him into picks.

Rudy has added a tear drop shot in the lane in games, that he has been working on for a while in practice. While not a reliable shot yet, it should improve with time.

Rudy has quick hands and is a good anticipator in passing lanes. He was 3rd on the team in steals (62) and excellent in steals per minute played (2.06 per 48 minutes).

From Jason Quick’s recent article…
Fernandez, 25, is unhappy in Portland because of limited playing time behind All-Star Brandon Roy and because of the playing style of coach Nate McMillan, who primarily used Fernandez as an outside shooter, not the playmaker Fernandez believes he can be in the NBA.

Because of Rudy’s build he can be challenged defensively in the post at times and backed down by larger guards. Fernandez is 6’ 6" and is listed at 185 lbs. With a solid frontline and the help defense that the Celtics play that would be minimized.

Jason thought Rudy’s defense would improve and he would be smart and quick enough to pick up the Celtics’ ‘help rotation style’ of defense.

So, the Celtics are working to see if something can be arranged with the Blazers.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Fluid is obviously blinded by his intense hatred for the TrailBlazers. I too have seen many Portland games, and watched Rudy play FIBA ball for Spain.

Last year he was HURT for most of the year, poorly managed by Nate, and upset with his role. His rookie year he set AN NBA ROOKIE RECORD by hitting 159 threes at a very good clip of 40%. Also, Rudy has MUCH more of a game than being just a spot up shooter. That's part of why Rudy is upset in Portland. He's NOT just a spot up shooter, even though Nate has tried to use him that way. He's extremely athletic, and has some moves off the dribble. I remember how impressive he was when he single handedly kept Spain in the game against the US, including this SICK throwdown and 1 on D12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47VLce11WDM

I'm not saying Rudy is an all-star, but he's a much better player than you're playing him out to be, and he's better than Terry at this point.

"From Jason Quick’s recent article…
Fernandez, 25, is unhappy in Portland because of limited playing time behind All-Star Brandon Roy and because of the playing style of coach Nate McMillan, who primarily used Fernandez as an outside shooter, not the playmaker Fernandez believes he can be in the NBA."

Looks like Mr. Quick concurs.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by CadBane

"From Jason Quick’s recent article…
Fernandez, 25, is unhappy in Portland because of limited playing time behind All-Star Brandon Roy and because of the playing style of coach Nate McMillan, who primarily used Fernandez as an outside shooter, not the playmaker Fernandez believes he can be in the NBA."

Looks like Mr. Quick concurs.

Boston does need that 3rd wing, with Tony Allen now cashing in on his playoff run. Should easily see 24-30 a night in the regular season.

[41mvp]

Fernandez want many minutes.Boston is not for him.In Boston are Pierce and Allen this both player are superstars.He always will be substitution player in all teams.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Fluid is obviously blinded by his intense hatred for the TrailBlazers. I too have seen many Portland games, and watched Rudy play FIBA ball for Spain.

Last year he was HURT for most of the year, poorly managed by Nate, and upset with his role. His rookie year he set AN NBA ROOKIE RECORD by hitting 159 threes at a very good clip of 40%. Also, Rudy has MUCH more of a game than being just a spot up shooter. That's part of why Rudy is upset in Portland. He's NOT just a spot up shooter, even though Nate has tried to use him that way. He's extremely athletic, and has some moves off the dribble. I remember how impressive he was when he single handedly kept Spain in the game against the US, including this SICK throwdown and 1 on D12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47VLce11WDM

I'm not saying Rudy is an all-star, but he's a much better player than you're playing him out to be, and he's better than Terry at this point.

lol NBA rookie record. He's been playing professional ball since he was like 16. He wasn't your typical "NBA rookie".

Dude, it's not my Blazer hatred. I would LOVE to get Aldridge as a backup here. I'd love to get Roy if the price was right. Pryzbilla would have been a great backup if he was healthy. Bayliss, Batum, Cunningham. There's lots of Blazers I would trade for. Rudy is not one of them.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Celtics, Bulls and Knicks are all apparently interested in Fernández.

Herein is a take on Fernández's game by Oregonian beat writer Jason Quick, who has covered the Blazers for 10 years.

Verdict: Definitely not 'garbage'.

Interesingly, no mention of hair gel or prima donna attitude--just that he's'unhappy'. Offset that by 'unselfish' and high basketball IQ and comparisons to Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton.

Fernandez on the Mavericks is probably moot, because he doesn't seem to be interested in playing Dallas, and because the Mavericks don't seem to have the same level of interest as the Celtics, Bulls or Knicks.

Also, a Terry for Fernández swap probably isn't viable because of how overpaid Terry is and how reasonably paid Fernández is.

But in terms of matching player skills to team needs, and availability to value, he'd be a good acquisition for Dallas.

Obviously my "garbage" statement was a little hyperbolic. There's no one in the NBA that would be "garbage" or else they wouldn't be in the NBA.

I'm saying that he's not better than Terry RIGHT NOW and I don't want his attitude. You can't be a 37% shooter scoring 17 points-per-48-minutes and have a "demand a trade" attitude. If he wants to get more minutes, shoot better than freakin' 37% from the field.

Plus.. say you want to put up with that. Say you have faith that last year was a fluke because of injuries (which still is mind boggling to me, he played 75% of the season)... He's not going to get more than 23 minutes here. How do you think this is a good fit for him? And why would you believe that he'll be happy here with less than 23 minutes if he wasn't happy in portland with less than 23 minutes?

[fluid.forty.one]

2009-2010 Rudy Fernandez: 8 points, 2 assists, 2.6 rebounds, 37% shooting, 37% 3 point shooting, 86% ft, 1.2 turnovers in 23 minutes off the bench.

2009-2010 Jose Barea: 7.6 points, 3.3 assists, 2 rebounds, 44% shooting, 36% 3 point shooting, 85% ft, 1.3 turnovers in 20 minutes off the bench.

[CadBane]

Fluid, you keep using Rudy's numbers from last year as an indicator of the player he is, and that's not really fair. He was injured, disgruntled, and mis-managed last year. He's clearly a better player than those numbers, as demonstrated in his rookie year alone.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Fluid is obviously blinded by his intense hatred for the TrailBlazers. I too have seen many Portland games, and watched Rudy play FIBA ball for Spain.

Last year he was HURT for most of the year, poorly managed by Nate, and upset with his role. His rookie year he set AN NBA ROOKIE RECORD by hitting 159 threes at a very good clip of 40%. Also, Rudy has MUCH more of a game than being just a spot up shooter. That's part of why Rudy is upset in Portland. He's NOT just a spot up shooter, even though Nate has tried to use him that way. He's extremely athletic, and has some moves off the dribble. I remember how impressive he was when he single handedly kept Spain in the game against the US, including this SICK throwdown and 1 on D12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47VLce11WDM

I'm not saying Rudy is an all-star, but he's a much better player than you're playing him out to be, and he's better than Terry at this point.

Good points

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Fluid, you keep using Rudy's numbers from last year as an indicator of the player he is, and that's not really fair. He was injured, disgruntled, and mis-managed last year. He's clearly a better player than those numbers, as demonstrated in his rookie year alone.

Even though I think it's bologna that being disgruntled or mismanaged is good reason to shoot 37%, I also don't think that a player of his caliber (good role player) should be allowed to be so disgruntled after 1 bad season. This isn't Chris Bosh or Jason Kidd we're talking about. You honestly don't have a problem with a role player like him being this publicly disgruntled and asking for a trade? (his being disgruntled, by the way, started right after Sergio left. NOT after a year of "mismanagement").

Just about every single Blazer fan I know hates Rudy and can't wait to see him gone. I think there's a good reason for that.

Still Cadbane, no one has answered this. If Rudy wasn't content with 23 minutes in Portland, why do you think he'll be content with 23 minutes here. If 23 minutes is considered him being "mismanaged" - which you say contributed to his really sh*tty season - why exactly wouldn't that be a problem here as well?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Even though I think it's bologna that being disgruntled or mismanaged is good reason to shoot 37%, I also don't think that a player of his caliber (good role player) should be allowed to be so disgruntled after 1 bad season. This isn't Chris Bosh or Jason Kidd we're talking about. You honestly don't have a problem with a role player like him being this publicly disgruntled and asking for a trade? (his being disgruntled, by the way, started right after Sergio left. NOT after a year of "mismanagement").

Just about every single Blazer fan I know hates Rudy and can't wait to see him gone. I think there's a good reason for that.

Still Cadbane, no one has answered this. If Rudy wasn't content with 23 minutes in Portland, why do you think he'll be content with 23 minutes here. If 23 minutes is considered him being "mismanaged" - which you say contributed to his really sh*tty season - why exactly wouldn't that be a problem here as well?

Must Spread Rep

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Even though I think it's bologna that being disgruntled or mismanaged is good reason to shoot 37%, I also don't think that a player of his caliber (good role player) should be allowed to be so disgruntled after 1 bad season. This isn't Chris Bosh or Jason Kidd we're talking about. You honestly don't have a problem with a role player like him being this publicly disgruntled and asking for a trade? (his being disgruntled, by the way, started right after Sergio left. NOT after a year of "mismanagement").

Just about every single Blazer fan I know hates Rudy and can't wait to see him gone. I think there's a good reason for that.

Still Cadbane, no one has answered this. If Rudy wasn't content with 23 minutes in Portland, why do you think he'll be content with 23 minutes here. If 23 minutes is considered him being "mismanaged" - which you say contributed to his really sh*tty season - why exactly wouldn't that be a problem here as well?

Oh, I was never arguing that he should/will come here. He won't. I was simply arguing his worth as a player.

[Fidel]

Rudy´s a better player than he could show last season. I´d say he´s a very good rotation guy, but wouldn´t be a great starter. As for him being disgruntled about his role, people must take into account that he´s a spaniard (a mallorcine to be exact, just like Nadal) and those guys have alot of pride. We have a house in Spain and I´m living there for at least a month every year, and these people are different, they have honour and pride. I´m not saying this exuses his behaviour but maybe it explains it.

[blessednegr0]

Fluid.... I get you completely. However we are missing the greater points here. Us getting Rudy Fernandez does the following.

-We are forced to trade Terry or limit his role.

-We now have a combo at the 2 of Roddy/Fernandez you can start either... But I think Roddy would be better suited as the new JET. Kind of like a NVE roll....

-Caron moves to the 3 which he is MUCH MUCH MUCH more effective.

-Our bench gets deeper with Marion backing up Butler AND Dirk as well as Tim Thomas and others off the bench.

This isn't solely about Rudy Fernandez. Will he play like Kobe this year? Hell no... But can he give us more options then we have had the last 4 years at the 2 spot? Absolutely.

Lets go over our recent history and see why he could be any worse... So at two guard we have had:

Finley (old streaky shooter)
Buckner (ancient)
Antoine Wright (I liked him... But he was limited... Plus Avery didnt give him much burn)
Butler (out of position... great forward though.)
Josh Howard (Out of position.. Injury Prone... And cancer.)

For the record... I loved the Daniels/Howard combo. Throw in Devin Harris and we could have been great for years to come IMO.

But with the list above ^ why is Rudy Fernandez, at 25 years old. Stellar rookie year, coming off of injury last year... Tell me why he is so much worse then what we have...

The team we have constructed is the best we have EVER had at any position. Why not take a flyer on a player who may only cost you 2nd round picks or a TPE? ... Maybe even Ajinca.

Kidd/Roddy/Barea
UP IN THE AIR
Butler/Marion
Dirk/Tim Thomas/Marion
The WOOD/Chandler/Mahini (spelling)/Ajinca

Every position is absolutely better then what we had for the last 5 years. We have been weak at 2 guard for how long now? We have our center issues solved as we have probably the best rotation in the NBA....

Why won't Rudy work? If he needs to come off the bench thats fine. Start Roddy... But bottom line Rudy will NOT be any worse then what we are getting from our current 2 guard rotation.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Fluid is obviously blinded by his intense hatred for the TrailBlazers. I too have seen many Portland games, and watched Rudy play FIBA ball for Spain.

Last year he was HURT for most of the year, poorly managed by Nate, and upset with his role. His rookie year he set AN NBA ROOKIE RECORD by hitting 159 threes at a very good clip of 40%. Also, Rudy has MUCH more of a game than being just a spot up shooter. That's part of why Rudy is upset in Portland. He's NOT just a spot up shooter, even though Nate has tried to use him that way. He's extremely athletic, and has some moves off the dribble. I remember how impressive he was when he single handedly kept Spain in the game against the US, including this SICK throwdown and 1 on D12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47VLce11WDM

I'm not saying Rudy is an all-star, but he's a much better player than you're playing him out to be, and he's better than Terry at this point.

Dwight Howard would have falttened that ball against the glass had Fernandez not have used his left hand to try an block Dwight's block (so to speak).

[SMC0007]

speculation

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by saclare

Dwight Howard would have falttened that ball against the glass had Fernandez not have used his left hand to try an block Dwight's block (so to speak).

. . . and we already have so many guys that protect their dunk with their off hand like that. Terry does that all the time.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

. . . and we already have so many guys that protect their dunk with their off hand like that. Terry does that all the time.

Imagine Terry attempting that dunk. It would have been a true posterization...the other way around...

[Jack.Kerr]

This guy gives a pretty balanced look at the pros and cons of Rudy. But he concludes that he's worth a look for a team in need of a 2.

Teams should try to trade for Rudy Fernandez
By Kelly Dwyer

Maybe Rudy Fernandez(notes) shouldn't have set that NBA rookie record, a few years ago. Remember which one he claimed?

I didn't. Skeets and Tas gave me a bit of an trivia lesson earlier this month, and when the question was posed as to which NBA rookie set the record for most three-pointers in a season, I was stumped.

It was Fernandez, at 159, during 2008-09. Kind of blows me away that no other rookie has managed two three-pointers a game in his rookie year, but the person behind the record just doesn't seem right. Fernandez, in his two NBA seasons, always struck me as an all-around talent, and not just a three-point shooter. And Rudy, to his credit, has tried to push the perimeter-based part of his resume onto the backburner. Even took part in the dunk contest. I'm sorry for bringing that up.

But Portland Trail Blazers coach Nate McMillan, for whatever reason, doesn't seem Rudy as someone to hand the ball to. It makes a little bit of sense - you want Brandon Roy(notes) using as many possessions as he can, and Andre Miller(notes) is no slouch as a point man - but those guys can't hound the rock forever. Or, for 48 minutes. So why not hand Rudy the ball, and at the same time, hand him his game back?

Ah, forget that. The Blazers are just going to trade the guy.

To possibly the Celtics, Bulls, or Knicks; Jason Quick reports.

All three would love to have them. And if I were a fan of either of those teams, I'd welcome him to a new city with open arms. I'd be wary about some things, but then I'd get past them.

What's to be wary about? Well, Fernandez hasn't been all that great in two NBA seasons. Average in his rookie year, and below average last year. A fine shooter, to be sure, but someone who has taken a ridiculous 63 percent of his shots from behind the arc. Ray Allen(notes) is another (nearly) record-setting three-point shooter and (weirdly) a dunk contest participant, and he's only taken a third of his career looks from long range. And even these days, with Allen's forays to the basket seemingly few and far between, and the years ticking away, Ray only takes about 40 percent of his shots from behind the three-point line.

On top of that, though he's only started nine NBA games in his career, three of those came in the playoffs last season, against the Suns. Phoenix, a team that can't play defense despite all the on-air proclamations about how things have improved markedly (or even partially) on that end. Should have been right up Rudy's alley, which sounds like an album title, and yet he only managed 7.3 points on 6-17 shooting. Five assists, during that turn, at just under 26 minutes a game.

And yet, this is where I throw all this stuff out. All this actual documentation of how things actually went down with him on the court. All this proof we have, spread out over 3700 NBA minutes during the regular and postseason.

Because, if it's not his game that he's playing, how can we criticize him for not playing it well?

This is a prickly path to go down. You can scan the internets for scads of columns I've written criticizing certain players for straying from a coach's seemingly righteous intended path. For wanting to play their game, above the team game.

But Rudy, just by watching the guy play, seems different. There are a lot of Rudys in this league, players who aren't used properly in one fashion or another, and I think this guy could be a sterling pickup for a team that needs someone to run stuff off the bench. Or even a starter, and second ball-handler. Perhaps, like - I don't know - Kirk Hinrich(notes) was i Chicago over the last two years?

Not to demand that he ends up in Cook County, but you get the picture. A starter, and someone to take over on a team that can be aided by their point guard playing off the ball sometimes. Or to take over running the show when the starting point man sits, because of the sheer amount of shoot-first backups in this league. Or just your typical mini-Manu, ham and egging it off the pine.

"Or just your typical mini-Manu, ham and egging it off the pine." Sportswriting.

Either way, with just one year and just under $1.25 left on his contract (there's a quite affordable team option for $2.1 million to follow in 2011-12), Fernandez could be a steal. And even if he keeps playing the way he's played - slightly below average - he's a steal. $1.25 million!
So yes, team, give up that first round pick. Give it up in an instant. This guy is either going to be a bust out player for you, or well worth what a team like Chicago or Boston (with a selection in the low teens or probable 20s) would end up paying for a first round guaranteed deal at that slot anyway. If you kept the pick, and ended up drafting a guy of Rudy's 2010-11 caliber, you'd be ecstatic. Even with him playing at his lowest ebb, as we may have seen last year.

This is worth chasing down, NBA. Take advantage of a team that might not know what it has.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

...Say you have faith that last year was a fluke because of injuries (which still is mind boggling to me, he played 75% of the season)... He's not going to get more than 23 minutes here. How do you think this is a good fit for him? And why would you believe that he'll be happy here with less than 23 minutes if he wasn't happy in portland with less than 23 minutes?

Fluid, how sure can we be that it's the number of minutes? My sense is that he doesn't feel McMillian is respects him, or intends to use him in a way that highlights his strengths. (He may well feel that the same thing happened to Sergio Rodriguez. ) McMillian says the right things in print, but...you know...lip service. And yeah, the reality is that Rudy's vying for minutes behind a guy who's a young, stud, All-Star. He's not going to beat out Brandon Roy for a starter's spot. And Roy, unless he's injured, is gonna command heavy minutes for the next few years.

Players get askew with coaches all the time (like employees with bosses everywhere). I can imagine that it's really difficult to get realigned in that situation, particularly when there are issues of cultural differences, and cultural acclimation. Look no further than a young talent like Anthony Randolph in Golden State playing for infamously difficult-on-rookies Nellie. In fact, that's an interesting parallel. Randolph showed really good skills as a rookie, but he claims Nellie told him to just focus on rebounding. They got cross-wise, Randolph's minutes got irregular. Then he got injured. He didn't trust Nellie. Nellie, as has increasingly been the case, found it easier to discard a young talent rather reconcile and develop him. (Dirk is the lucky exception.) But people look at the skills Randolph has shown, and you'd have to look really hard to find a person who isn't looking for him to break out in New York with minutes and opportunityi.

I would think any player who has any aspiration wants to feel valued, not marginalized. It sounds like McMillian and the Blazers have pretty much marginalized Fernandez.

Why would a team be willing to risk taking on a player with attutide issues? A lot of times, just a change of scenery takes care of the problem. A player with any sense who's had problems in a previous situation with a previous coach, will understand the danger of getting a reputation as a head case, and the narrow margin for f-ups keeps him focused.

I think that in Dallas Fernández would get a decent shot at showing different aspects of his game. Paired with Kidd, he'd be a shooter. With Beaubois, whose playmaking and decision making are still developing, Fernández might be called on a little more to be a passer and playmaker. I tend to think that as long as he got an opportunity to play and show what he could do, the attitude issues would dissipate. Given the talent he's shown and the minimal investment required, I'd be willing to see what happened.

That said, I'm not sure that Dallas is the best opportunity for Fernandez. The Knicks, for example, would be a lot more likely to give him the best opportunity for big minutes and free rein. Chicago would be the best opportunity to catch on with a team on the cusp of making a dramatic improvement. He wouldn't be as featured a player there because of the talent there (Rose, Deng, Boozer), but if he wanted to fit with a team on the way up, Chicago is a good opportunity. In Boston, he'd be more of a role player, playing behind Ray Allen who's on his last legs. But Boston's team defense would cover for his individual deficiencies. AND they seem to be the team with the most interest in him and the most to offer Portland in exchange.

I'm soured on the pro sports for a lot of reasons, and pay about a tenth as much attention as I used to. But watching a young player with talent get an opportunity to develop is one of the few things about the NBA that catches my attention anymore. Fernández will be on my list next year, and I hope to be able to say "I told you so." Força, Rudy!

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

. . . and we already have so many guys that protect their dunk with their off hand like that. Terry does that all the time.

I brought it up more because I want to see it called more. If you ever have it happen to you in a pickup game it's pretty frustrating. It enables players to free up a shot. Sort of like hooking a defender.

[fluid.forty.one]

Jack Kerr are you Rudy Fernandez or something? I just don't think he's that good. I definitely don't think he's a good option for this team. That's my opinion, something I'm allowed to have. It's like you're taking this personally.

Besides, most of my argument is that he's not a great fit here. The garbage bit was hyperbole, like I said earlier. If he goes to the Knicks and does well I don't see how that means I'm wrong. He very well may have a year better than his rookie year in a Knicks uniform, but that would say more about Mike Dan and Tony than Rudy. It would be awfully silly for his hypothetic inflated knicks numbers to be a reason to say "oh man, we should have gotten him!".

anyway.. I know this is a slow offseason and everything, but I'm done talking about Rudy. I'm sorry I insulted a player you like, but he's not worth pages of arguing back and forth.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Jack Kerr are you Rudy Fernandez or something? I just don't think he's that good. I definitely don't think he's a good option for this team. That's my opinion, something I'm allowed to have. It's like you're taking this personally.

Besides, most of my argument is that he's not a great fit here. The garbage bit was hyperbole, like I said earlier. If he goes to the Knicks and does well I don't see how that means I'm wrong. He very well may have a year better than his rookie year in a Knicks uniform, but that would say more about Mike Dan and Tony than Rudy. It would be awfully silly for his hypothetic inflated knicks numbers to be a reason to say "oh man, we should have gotten him!".

anyway.. I know this is a slow offseason and everything, but I'm done talking about Rudy. I'm sorry I insulted a player you like, but he's not worth pages of arguing back and forth.

Man, take it easy.

Your suggestion was that they stick with Jet. If that's all they're able to do, I'm going to have a difficult time being enthusiastic about the Mavericks this year. I understand that they're giving it their best shot in the next couple of years to win with Dirk. But I also think they need to start doing something to reshape an aging roster. I'm not saying they have to hit home runs either, but a couple of singles would be nice.

As for Fernández, just considering the alternative places he might end up, I was actually conceding that Dallas might not be the best fit for HIM.

I actually appreciated your opinion, and agree that you're free to have it, but obviously I think you're wrong. I did respond specifically to a couple of things you wrote though, just because I had an opposite point of view. But definitely nothing personal. And obviously (channeling Dirk here), you're free not to discuss it anymore.

Enjoy your summer.

P.S.: What about Sasha Vujacic? I hear he's available. :-)

[wilmtalk]

Interesting discussion and arguements for both points of view. I agree this is the best team we have fielded since Aquire and Schrimph were here. There is still one other problem though. We have a coach who doesn't know how to utilize his bench so he won't.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

P.S.: What about Sasha Vujacic? I hear he's available. :-)

Done and done!

[BGMaverick9]

Oh Josh...

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Oh Josh...

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

A little revisionist history?

They gave me the opportunity to get out of Dallas and actually play free, which I took and I appreciate them for that.

Asked if he felt appreciated by the Mavericks front office, Howard replied: "They should answer that one, but I don't think so. I definitely don't think so. It they did, I would still be here."

LOL, if the Mavs didn't appreciate him, they would have shipped his sorry ass years ago (like they should have!)

Bitch.


(but one look at the Obama administration tells me they have some great f*cking weed in D.C. so Josh outta be happy there...)

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by Underdog

A little revisionist history?



LOL, if the Mavs didn't appreciate him, they would have shipped his sorry ass years ago (like they should have!)

Bitch.


(but one look at the Obama administration tells me they have some great f*cking weed in D.C. so Josh outta be happy there...)

What the f**K does Obama has anything to do with Howard?....I mean it don't matter how much you hate dude Howard but to bring the president in this Howard then is talking this to far.


Oh and I waiting for a response and please make it good dude!!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Is this really called for?...I mean it don't matter how much you hate Howard but to bring the president in this Howard then is talking this to far.

Quit acting like a bitch.

Obama is a big boy - he can take it (full clout, no coughing or nothin'..... zing!)

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Quit acting like a bitch.

Obama is a big boy - he can take it (full clout, no coughing or nothin'..... zing!)

Takes one to know one d*ck head.

Like Obama has ANYTHING to do with Howard.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Takes one to know one d*ck head.

Like Obama has ANYTHING to do with Howard.

Washington D.C. is the connection, kinda like when Germans ask Dirk "who shot J.R." - the geography makes it relevant...

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Washington D.C. is the connection, kinda like when Germans ask Dirk "who shot J.R." - the geography makes it relevant...

I'm not even wasting my time anymore because now I see what kind of person you are posting that bullsh*t.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

I'm not even wasting my time anymore because know I see what kind of person you are posting that bullsh*t.

Why are you acting like you just caught me pulling my dick out of your mom's ass?

You're awfully defensive of some rich white asshole in the White House, especially considering his name was only being dropped to bust on Josh Howard's copious pot habit...

It's a joke. Grow up and get over it...

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Underdog

A little revisionist history?



LOL, if the Mavs didn't appreciate him, they would have shipped his sorry ass years ago (like they should have!)

Bitch.


(but one look at the Obama administration tells me they have some great f*cking weed in D.C. so Josh outta be happy there...)

Man, what an ungrateful POS. Yeah Josh, we didn't give you the ability to "play free" here when we foolishly let you jack up contested jumper after contested jumper with no consequences. Fuck Howard. Never liked him.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Seriously, in 2005-2006 who would've ever thought that Howard would've turned out to be such d*ckhead? I've never seen a more meteoric fall from Mavericks grace than that of Josh Howard.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Seriously, in 2005-2006 who would've ever thought that Howard would've turned out to be such d*ckhead? I've never seen a more meteoric fall from Mavericks grace than that of Josh Howard.

Roy Tarpley?

(but I get your point - Josh definitely deep-sixed his popularity with this franchise, even after being forgiven over & over again...)

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I've never seen a more meteoric fall from Mavericks grace than that of Josh Howard.

Avery.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Avery.

Nah, Avery was arrogant, egotistical and a bit delusional (he created MVP Dirk?), but he never burned any bridges with the Mavs...

If anything, he was overrated to begin with and eventually sank down to where he belonged...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Spiral mentioned a meteoric fall...not necessarily just "burning bridges." When it comes to complete collapses, Avery's last half of his Mav career rates up there. And although he wasn't as public about it, I can't imagine any bridge left for him where he'd be welcomed back with open arms.