Do you think we'll make a major trade before the deadline?

[mavs777]

I am not sure he can handle the 3 defensivley who knows

[LSMF]

Is there a possibility that we don't trade Caron and just wait for him to get healthy? All of these names being thrown out don't really impress me tbh, if it's only a two month injury (Hopefully) I think we'd make it without Butler. I really like what Butler brings to this team, and he was just starting to take over that "Robin" role. I think if this isn't a season-ending injury we should be patient. I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, but it's something to think about.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by LSMF

Is there a possibility that we don't trade Caron and just wait for him to get healthy? All of these names being thrown out don't really impress me tbh, if it's only a two month injury (Hopefully) I think we'd make it without Butler. I really like what Butler brings to this team, and he was just starting to take over that "Robin" role. I think if this isn't a season-ending injury we should be patient. I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, but it's something to think about.

I think waiting on Caron is the most likely scenario at this point actually.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I think waiting on Caron is the most likely scenario at this point actually.

And the dumbest one imo, Caron has already lost some of his explosion and this injury seems like something that would hurt his quickness even more

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by mavs777

And the dumbest one imo, Caron has already lost some of his explosion and this injury seems like something that would hurt his quickness even more

Sigh.

[sefant77]

Last time we put our hopes on a key player getting healthy for the playoffs...Josh Howard in 2009? Worked well...

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Last time we put our hopes on a key player getting healthy for the playoffs...Josh Howard in 2009? Worked well...

Um, I remember Josh having a strong series against the Spurs before getting injured again at the start of the Denver series. Those playoffs are pretty much the last positive memory I have of Josh.

[Bayliss]

Btw, supposedly Gerald Wallace got hurt today so he is out of the running. And AI has a sore achillis and is missing games with the 76ers.

So the pickings are slim if the Mavs want to make a move.

[mavs777]

Stephen Jackson

As Charles says everyone needs a crazy guy on there team

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by LSMF

Is there a possibility that we don't trade Caron and just wait for him to get healthy? All of these names being thrown out don't really impress me tbh, if it's only a two month injury (Hopefully) I think we'd make it without Butler. I really like what Butler brings to this team, and he was just starting to take over that "Robin" role. I think if this isn't a season-ending injury we should be patient. I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, but it's something to think about.

the problem with that is if they wait on him and he has a setback(ala Roddy)or never makes it all the way back this season then you have no one that can shoulder the minutes or scoring load. sure if Roddy comes back and is the player we've seen previous that helps alot. but that's no guarantee either. maybe Marion and Stevenson in bits and pieces. but neither of them is a guy you want with the ball in his hands in a tight game. caron was filling that scorer role quite well as of late.

i understand the thinking that by not trading for another large contract (Iggy,Rip,G.Wallace,S-Jax) you keep open future flexibility. but this team really has something nice going this year. would be a shame not to pursue another wing that can score and defend.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Um, I remember Josh having a strong series against the Spurs before getting injured again at the start of the Denver series. Those playoffs are pretty much the last positive memory I have of Josh.

Josh Howard had an injury ankle and then at the begin of the Denver serious injuried also the other ankle.

He sat out at four different times during that season: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...PKB4?year=2008

[dalger]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Um, I remember Josh having a strong series against the Spurs before getting injured again at the start of the Denver series. Those playoffs are pretty much the last positive memory I have of Josh.

Exactly. Josh was outstanding in the first round against the Spurs. He got hurt in the second game against Denver. Then again, the Nuggets were pretty good and would have been tough to beat even with Josh.

As far as Caron is concerned, let's just wait on the diagnosis. If he's out for no more than 10 weeks due to only suffering a partial tear, I think we could definitely wait on him.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Btw, supposedly Gerald Wallace got hurt today so he is out of the running. And AI has a sore achillis and is missing games with the 76ers.

So the pickings are slim if the Mavs want to make a move.

i know it aint sexy and it's not exactly what this team needs but Tayshaun Prince is a damn good player and there's no way he resigns in Detroit. maybe they would be open to flipping him for Butler+

it's not ideal but Prince is expiring and as such provides flexibility going forward.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Last time we put our hopes on a key player getting healthy for the playoffs...Josh Howard in 2009? Worked well...

It's not really relevant at all what happened in a past situation with a different injured player.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by mac222b

the problem with that is if they wait on him and he has a setback(ala Roddy)or never makes it all the way back this season then you have no one that can shoulder the minutes or scoring load. sure if Roddy comes back and is the player we've seen previous that helps alot. but that's no guarantee either. maybe Marion and Stevenson in bits and pieces. but neither of them is a guy you want with the ball in his hands in a tight game. caron was filling that scorer role quite well as of late.

i understand the thinking that by not trading for another large contract (Iggy,Rip,G.Wallace,S-Jax) you keep open future flexibility. but this team really has something nice going this year. would be a shame not to pursue another wing that can score and defend.

This.

Its about saving this season, one of the last ones of our "window". We are looking (best case!) at ~two months recovery. And no way he will be anyway near to 100% for the playoffs, maybe 75%.

I say worst case swap Jax with Caron. You can save the title ambitions this season and you dont kill much flexibility. Our option next summer was anyway to lose Caron for nothing or give him like 4 years /35 million. The Mavs still have the option to trade him now and give him next summer a long MLE deal that reaches the 30-35 million.

Jax played in some bad teams with a lack of leadership (Warriors, Bobcats), im pretty sure he would kill to play playoffs again on a winning team. Our team has two alpha males (Dirk, Kidd), a clear 1st scoring option etc. Carlisle had a good relationship to Artest in Indy, i guess he had a good one to Jax too. I think our team has the "tools" to controll Jax "crazyness" and chucking...

[mavs777]

Not to mention there isn't even any guarantee Caron will be back

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by sefant77

This.

Its about saving this season, one of the last ones of our "window". We are looking (best case!) at ~two months recovery. And no way he will be anyway near to 100% for the playoffs, maybe 75%.

I say worst case swap Jax with Caron. You can save the title ambitions this season and you dont kill much flexibility. Our option next summer was anyway to lose Caron for nothing or give him like 4 years /35 million. The Mavs still have the option to trade him now and give him next summer a long MLE deal that reaches the 30-35 million.

Jax played in some bad teams with a lack of leadership (Warriors, Bobcats), im pretty sure he would kill to play playoffs again on a winning team. Our team has two alpha males (Dirk, Kidd), a clear 1st scoring option etc. Carlisle had a good relationship to Artest in Indy, i guess he had a good one to Jax too. I think our team has the "tools" to controll Jax "crazyness" and chucking...

S-Jax is sort of a streaky shooter but then so is Caron(although he's been pretty consistent lately). also Jackson is probably a better more versatile defender and better ballhandler/passer. i like the occasional post-up mismatches he can cause. and he's shooting a decent 3 point pct. this season.

i think if you couple our seemingly good working relationship with Charlotte's FO& what it would cost to get him, relative to other possible available players, S-Jax is the most likely get.

[fluid.forty.one]

I would like Butler for SJax or Butler and Roddy for Kevin Martin.

Kidd-Martin-Marion-Dirk-Chandler is really sexy.

so is Kidd-Roddy-Sjax-Dirk-Chandler

[Rick41]

I just came to realize that could have been Butlers last game as a Mav.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I would like Butler for SJax or Butler and Roddy for Kevin Martin.

Kidd-Martin-Marion-Dirk-Chandler is really sexy.

so is Kidd-Roddy-Sjax-Dirk-Chandler

I'd love either of those trades at this point...

You could argue Tuff Juice vs. Captain Jack until you were blue in the face a couple days ago, but now the choice is pretty simple (not to mention Jackson out-ranks Butler in every stat across the board except for FG% and 3P%)... S-Jax is a bit of a black hole and can be a selfish player at times, but the Mavericks organization has a way of taming selfish personalities and Carlisle/Dirk/Kidd have shown a knack for getting new players on board with their system. Plus, winning has a way of turning "malcontents" into "contents"...

As for trading Butler/Roddy for someone like Martin? I'm with EL when it comes to Beaubois - he has a lot of potential, but a team in win-now mode can't wait on potential.

I'd feel differently if he was already healthy and there wasn't a lockout looming next season, but if there's no basketball in 2011, then by 2012 Kidd will be retired (or a backup, at best) and we'll only have Dirk, Marion and Haywood (and/or Chandler, hopefully) under contract, so we'll be rebuilding for one last chance in Dirk's prime... This team is in win-now mode. Win. Now.

[BGMaverick9]

Has anyone heard about this? Apparently it was on NBA.com in a blog entry


The Mavs could apply for a disabled-player exception worth approximately $5.3 million, which is half of Butler’s $10.6 million salary, if it’s determined that Butler is lost for the season. Dallas could sign or trade for a player to fit into that salary spot without giving up anything in return.

[xrobx]

i still want to know the exact severity of caron's injury. of course after seeing how they've handled the roddy situation, i'm sure i'll never truly find out.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Has anyone heard about this? Apparently it was on NBA.com in a blog entry


The Mavs could apply for a disabled-player exception worth approximately $5.3 million, which is half of Butler’s $10.6 million salary, if it’s determined that Butler is lost for the season. Dallas could sign or trade for a player to fit into that salary spot without giving up anything in return.

How would that work without giving up anything in return?

[Rick41]

Per Wikipedia.

Disabled Player Exception: Allows a team that is over the cap to acquire a replacement for a disabled player who will be out for either the remainder of that season (for in-season injuries/deaths) or the next season (if the disability occurs during the offseason). The maximum salary of the replacement player is either 50% of the injured player's salary, or the average salary, whichever is less. This exception requires an NBA-designated doctor to verify the extent of the injury.

Note that while teams can often use one exception to sign multiple players, they cannot use a combination of exceptions to sign a single player.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mavs777

And the dumbest one imo, Caron has already lost some of his explosion and this injury seems like something that would hurt his quickness even more

I don't want to but I have to agree with you.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'd love either of those trades at this point...

You could argue Tuff Juice vs. Captain Jack until you were blue in the face a couple days ago, but now the choice is pretty simple (not to mention Jackson out-ranks Butler in every stat across the board except for FG% and 3P%)... S-Jax is a bit of a black hole and can be a selfish player at times, but the Mavericks organization has a way of taming selfish personalities and Carlisle/Dirk/Kidd have shown a knack for getting new players on board with their system. Plus, winning has a way of turning "malcontents" into "contents"...

As for trading Butler/Roddy for someone like Martin? I'm with EL when it comes to Beaubois - he has a lot of potential, but a team in win-now mode can't wait on potential.

I'd feel differently if he was already healthy and there wasn't a lockout looming next season, but if there's no basketball in 2011, then by 2012 Kidd will be retired (or a backup, at best) and we'll only have Dirk, Marion and Haywood (and/or Chandler, hopefully) under contract, so we'll be rebuilding for one last chance in Dirk's prime... This team is in win-now mode. Win. Now.

Jackson may have to be a black hole on that team...It's always a different dynamic.

[EricaLubarsky]

As I understand it, its basically a second MLE/Trade exception hybrid and 50% of Butler's contract is 5.28mil, the MLE/avg salary being 5.77 and the exception is the lesser of the two. If we were able to get the exception, we'd basically have a 5.3million trade exception-- too small to even acquire an MLE player as it is 100% of the player's salary+100k.

As I understand it, it can be used any time in the next 10 months, and can be combined with other players, but not with other trade exceptions and the resulting trade can only net the Mavs one player so we could trade 2 players and the exception together to acquire one player but no more than one. I could be wrong about being combinable though.

Honestly the chances of getting it are slim, though. Even if there is no chance of Butler playing again this season, its unlikely that the NBA will issue us one. Danny Manning tore an ACL and his team was denied it. We'll have to see the severity tomorrow and only if its worst-case-scenario will we even have a chance at getting it.

Then we'll see if it ends up netting us anything too. It would be another tool for us to use in trade talks, but not a home run by any means.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Rick41

How would that work without giving up anything in return?

We'd basically take a player off someone's payroll for them by trading what is essentially a trade exception for their player. Since the Mavs are at 15, they'd either need to drop someone (Novak probably) or make another 2-for-1 trade. I believe we could also include players with the exception, but could take no more than 1 player back in any trade that involves the exception. I could be wrong about that though.

Then again the exception is only good for <= 5.38million. (5.28m+100k). We couldnt even get an MLE player for that by itself.

[BGMaverick9]

Stein just put up an article and the belief is the team will wait to see Dirk and Marion back at full strength to determine if the team can respond positively with Butler's absence...basically giving it a chance to work.

If not, they'll see what the market has available.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Stein just put up an article and the belief is the team will wait to see Dirk and Marion back at full strength to determine if the team can respond positively with Butler's absence...basically giving it a chance to work.

If not, they'll see what the market has available.

That approach only makes sense if they know Butler will return before the playoffs.

[JHT]

I hope not. There's nothing out there that will get this team a championship. Anything they do is only going to worsen their financial situation and probably not do much else.

[rabbitproof]

I've been postulating about trades under the 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst' mentality.

If Stephen Jackson gets a sanity signoff, I'll take him. Otherwise, I'm really feeling Twan. He's a 20-point character guy who really fills out the forward rotation. He costs 15M next year but would be a massive expiring. There might be a lockout anyways.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Stein just put up an article and the belief is the team will wait to see Dirk and Marion back at full strength to determine if the team can respond positively with Butler's absence...basically giving it a chance to work.

If not, they'll see what the market has available.

Sounds like positioning or I sort of hope it is.

I would be shocked if they actually think that would work, there just isn't enough scoring there imo.

[j0Shi]

Bad thing is: Time already working against us. Roddy is the x-factor. With him possibly filling up the scoring hole Butler left, we could live with a minor trade to add frontcourt depth or even wait for Butler if the injury turns out less worse. I really hope Roddy can play at least for a month or so before the deadline to figure things out, but this seems unrealistic right now.

Without the knowledge of Roddys potential this season every move would be a gamble. Considering how good the team looked even without Roddy I'd say we should wait for Butler if there is a reasonable timetable.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Otherwise, I'm really feeling Twan. He's a 20-point character guy who really fills out the forward rotation. He costs 15M next year but would be a massive expiring. There might be a lockout anyways.

Is Jamison being shopped, or is this a reaction to the great game he had against us?

[Luc]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=2eldr5t

and

If Butler is recovered fast
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=2e2twsb

[41mvp]

Diop?Why?

[Luc]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

Diop?Why?

As a backup he will do with Mahinmi en Ajinca. Bobacats will be happy to get rid of him and we are to get rid of Terry.

[41mvp]

Jackson and Diop will be better deal for us.
Jackson is a NBA champ we need experienced guy.

[Luc]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

Jackson and Diop will be better deal for us.
Jackson is a NBA champ we need experienced guy.

Quite obvious we have enough experience already.
Kidd, Terry, Marion, Dirk etc.