01-12-2011, 10:00 PM
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#41
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,457
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This season has changed in the blink of an eye. Ridiculously unfortunate but dems the breaks. The Butler injury is really the killer. The team was gelling so well, and Butler finally found his niche with the team. I think he was legitimately forming into that number 2 guy we had envisioned, but, no crying over spilled milk.
I know these games have been ugly, but without our two best players it's tough to expect much really. Get Dirk back, hopefully get Roddy back, and use our chips to attain a solid wingman to replace Butler and lets see if this team can develop that cohesiveness that was really evident before the injuries occurred.
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01-12-2011, 10:06 PM
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#42
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Hanging onto players (especially Caron) entirely because of "chemistry" is ridiculous, I hope for goodness sakes that's not actually going through their minds. In the seventh game of a playoff series, having caron on the sideline in a suit will not get them a single point.
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The good thing, Caron is now MLE material in the offseason, so they can have him back easily.
So its not even about "losing" him. You lose him sitting in a suit and thats it.
Last edited by sefant77; 01-12-2011 at 10:07 PM.
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01-12-2011, 10:08 PM
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#43
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
They're going to wait until Roddy and Dirk get back and see where they stand...
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I don't buy that for one second - the Mavs FO would have to be smoking crack if they aren't actively seeking a way to upgrade this team via Butler's expiring contract (a missing ingredient isn't part of the chemistry....)
The only reason I can see them waiting is if they have doubts that Roddy can make an impact this season, maybe they'd go after a SG instead of a SF... Otherwise, there's nothing to evaluate - we still need a backup PG and another forward regardless of how Dirk and Roddy feel...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 01-12-2011 at 10:09 PM.
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01-12-2011, 10:10 PM
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#44
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Bucks are of course useless tonight too, thanks
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01-12-2011, 10:10 PM
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#45
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
I don't buy that for one second - the Mavs FO would have to be smoking crack if they aren't actively seeking a way to upgrade this team via Butler's expiring contract (a missing ingredient isn't part of the chemistry....)
The only reason I can see them waiting is if they have doubts that Roddy can be a starter this season, maybe they'd go after a SG instead of a SF... Otherwise, there's nothing to evaluate - we still need another forward and a backup PG regardless of how Dirk and Roddy feel...
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I would say that second paragraph is the big thing and deserves waiting to see, right? Theoretically, different assets can be involved based on the position.
The problem with all of it now is that the bigger teams Dallas would look to deal with are remaining viable in playoff races so the value on Dallas' end WILL have to go up, basically trading Roddy.
Doing the waiting game is a natural progression but it also buys more time to hopefully have teams take a change of heart.
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01-12-2011, 10:18 PM
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#46
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004
I know these games have been ugly, but without our two best players it's tough to expect much really.
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No excuses in this league.
I would at least expect that the remaining players go out there with the intention to show that they have the mentality to win games without Dirk. I would be fine going 2-6 without Dirk if the players would show some heart and play with intensity and toughness. But I just can't see this.
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01-12-2011, 10:18 PM
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#47
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
They're going to wait until Roddy and Dirk get back and see where they stand...
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You don't have any idea what exactly they're going to do.
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01-12-2011, 10:21 PM
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#48
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
You don't have any idea what exactly they're going to do.
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Well more than you do I would submit.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-12-2011, 10:21 PM
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#49
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Hanging onto players (especially Caron) entirely because of "chemistry" is ridiculous, I hope for goodness sakes that's not actually going through their minds. In the seventh game of a playoff series, having caron on the sideline in a suit will not get them a single point.
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+rep (if it would let me).
I get so sick of hearing the "what kind of message would it send to the team" mantra. What kind of message would it send? The I WANT TO WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS KIND. This is a business of winning, not a feelings factory.
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01-12-2011, 10:22 PM
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#50
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Well more than you do I would submit.
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No more than any other member of the blogo-press, which is to say no more than myself.
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01-12-2011, 10:23 PM
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#51
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
I would say that second paragraph is the big thing and deserves waiting to see, right? Theoretically, different assets can be involved based on the position.
The problem with all of it now is that the bigger teams Dallas would look to deal with are remaining viable in playoff races so the value on Dallas' end WILL have to go up, basically trading Roddy.
Doing the waiting game is a natural progression but it also buys more time to hopefully have teams take a change of heart.
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It also allows time for players to come off the board...
And, sure, the price of Iggy or Jackson might be higher at the moment, but those aren't the only names out there...
For example, if we could acquire Devin Harris and/or Al Harrington by facilitating the Melo trade, I'm sure as hell not waiting to evaluate a guy who's missed half of his sophomore season - I'm pulling the trigger... Of course you HAVE to wait if a deal like that doesn't come along (and it probably won't), but I'm not buying for one moment that the holdup on a trade is because we need to "evaluate" the players we already have - this team has holes to fill regardless (ain't no NBA squad winning a ring with Barea backing up Kidd!)
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 01-12-2011 at 10:29 PM.
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01-12-2011, 10:27 PM
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#52
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Bucks are of course useless tonight too, thanks
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We should get comfortable to monitor teams like Utah and OKC anyway (besides the fact that every Spurs loss is a good one for sure ). 1st and 2nd is most likely gone.
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01-12-2011, 10:27 PM
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#53
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,186
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Cad the confrontational....BG might just be a blogger, but he offers up some good stuff for free. He also doesn't try to start crap with lots of users around here.....
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 01-12-2011 at 10:28 PM.
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01-12-2011, 10:33 PM
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#54
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Cad the confrontational....BG might just be a blogger, but he offers up some good stuff for free. He also doesn't try to start crap with lots of users around here.....
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So stating an observation is confrontational? UD echoes my thoughts, but we all know how this board works.
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01-12-2011, 10:38 PM
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#55
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
So stating an observation is confrontational? UD echoes my thoughts, but we all know how this board works.
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But I wasn't confrontational about it.
You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...
Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 01-12-2011 at 10:38 PM.
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01-12-2011, 10:41 PM
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#56
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
But I wasn't confrontational about it.
You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...
Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?
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Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...
People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?
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01-12-2011, 10:44 PM
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#57
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...
People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?
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It could go either way. I didn't think anything of it but your history probably leads people to assume you're being harsh.
Let's just drop it, everyone. Games without Dirk are bad enough without fighting as well.
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01-12-2011, 10:52 PM
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#58
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
It also allows time for players to come off the board...
And, sure, the price of Iggy or Jackson might be higher at the moment, but those aren't the only names out there...
For example, if we could acquire Devin Harris and/or Al Harrington by facilitating the Melo trade, I'm sure as hell not waiting to evaluate a guy who's missed half of his sophomore season - I'm pulling the trigger... Of course you HAVE to wait if a deal like that doesn't come along (and it probably won't), but I'm not buying for one moment that the holdup on a trade is because we need to "evaluate" the players we already have - this team has holes to fill regardless (ain't no NBA squad winning a ring with Barea backing up Kidd!)
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I agree with everything here.
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01-12-2011, 11:00 PM
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#59
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...
People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?
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Here's an example of your superior attitude earlier in this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
Why would one think that? Dirk is an above average defender and the Mavs are a much better defensive team with him on the court.
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
101.4 On Court
106.7 Off Court
-5.3
One would be better served to know what they're talking about beore posting.
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You made a great point, but that last line was just arrogant - no need to talk down to people just because you know something they don't... You took an opportunity to educate someone and turned it into an insult (yet you wonder why people dislike you...)
Can't you disagree without making it personal?
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 01-12-2011 at 11:00 PM.
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01-12-2011, 11:00 PM
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#60
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
It also allows time for players to come off the board...
And, sure, the price of Iggy or Jackson might be higher at the moment, but those aren't the only names out there...
For example, if we could acquire Devin Harris and/or Al Harrington by facilitating the Melo trade, I'm sure as hell not waiting to evaluate a guy who's missed half of his sophomore season - I'm pulling the trigger... Of course you HAVE to wait if a deal like that doesn't come along (and it probably won't), but I'm not buying for one moment that the holdup on a trade is because we need to "evaluate" the players we already have - this team has holes to fill regardless (ain't no NBA squad winning a ring with Barea backing up Kidd!)
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In my opinion, Dallas needs to get some major financial relief to taking on Harrington's deal. There was a line the Mavericks weren't wanting to cross in the summer with Harrington...Denver went beyond that and Dallas balked. Giving up their best long-term asset to get Harris and a bloated contract doesn't necessarily seem a fit, it's going to take someone eating nasty contracts. The problem with that then is the Mavericks only really have two "bad" contracts: Marion and Haywood. I don't see why Denver would want to deal with that...you'll have to find a foolish team in that instance, which I guess is possible.
With that scenario, I'm not even sure Roddy and Butler is enough to make it work. Portland has pieces that intrigue Denver and I have a feeling they move to the top of the list.
If the bodies that are still viable to get healthy actually do that and they make a move, I don't see the Mavericks doing a "superstar move."
Last edited by BGMaverick9; 01-12-2011 at 11:01 PM.
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01-12-2011, 11:01 PM
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#61
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Well, I guess the wheels have fallen off this thing.
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01-12-2011, 11:02 PM
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#62
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,195
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too late to tank the season for a draft pick?
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01-12-2011, 11:11 PM
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#63
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
In my opinion, Dallas needs to get some major financial relief to taking on Harrington's deal. There was a line the Mavericks weren't wanting to cross in the summer with Harrington...Denver went beyond that and Dallas balked.
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Butler was healthy back then - things are a little different now...
I'm not going to debate the rest of it because the Harris/Harrington idea was purely hypothetical - the point I was trying to make is that there are probably several players the Mavs would be interested in that could be moved before we have enough time to evaluate Roddy...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 01-12-2011 at 11:12 PM.
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01-12-2011, 11:13 PM
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#64
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
But I wasn't confrontational about it.
You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...
Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?
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Whatever, kid.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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01-12-2011, 11:16 PM
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#65
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Butler was healthy back then - things are a little different now...
I'm not going to debate the rest of it because the Harris/Harrington idea was purely hypothetical - the point I was trying to make is that there are probably several players the Mavs would be interested in that could be moved before we have enough time to evaluate Roddy...
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I agree with that Butler thought, but I think there is still a line the Mavericks won't cross and Harrington feels over the line unless other parts are involved.
It's just a situation we will have to wait and see what happens. I still think making a move within the next 2-3 weeks still creates a disadvantage in terms of negotiation for the Mavericks.
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01-12-2011, 11:18 PM
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#66
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 183
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speachless....We've gotta get some help and now
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01-12-2011, 11:20 PM
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#67
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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These games are exposing problems the Mavs already knew existed, but with Dirk they were able to overcome and still get the wins. We all knew the bench was consistently giving up leads. We all knew JJB had a horrible on/off court impact on the game. We all knew there wasn't a consistent 2nd scorer. Now that they're feeling the pain, i wonder if they'll make any changes.
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01-12-2011, 11:27 PM
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#68
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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I just don't see how harrington does that much for the team..They are pretty desperate for a 3.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-12-2011, 11:29 PM
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#69
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,413
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once a jerk, always a jerk.
I miss Dirk
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01-12-2011, 11:40 PM
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#70
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 553
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How long till iguodala gets here?
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01-12-2011, 11:40 PM
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#71
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
I just don't see how harrington does that much for the team..They are pretty desperate for a 3.
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I concur. I'm not huge on Al. He'd bring nice depth to the 4, but he's too slow for the 3. Of course he could always see some minutes at the 4 with Dirk at the 5 (he did play center under Nellie at times, but then again, who didn't?) If a nice trade came along for Al, I'd do it. But obviously I'd prefer a guy like Iggy, Jax, Melo (not gonna happen), Crash.
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01-12-2011, 11:44 PM
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#72
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Here's an example of your superior attitude earlier in this thread:
You made a great point, but that last line was just arrogant - no need to talk down to people just because you know something they don't... You took an opportunity to educate someone and turned it into an insult (yet you wonder why people dislike you...)
Can't you disagree without making it personal?
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Yes, I could have been less sarcastic there...though I don't consider that post to be analogous to calling one an idiot. It was more a sarcastic jab at a rather foolish post. However, that wasn't the post in question. The one in response to BG was, in which I was no way confrontational. And please, lets get off the pedestal. Don't act like you and dozens of other posters here don't make sarcastic, often times insulting posts in response to others. I can provide examples of instances far more egregious than mine above.
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01-12-2011, 11:55 PM
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#73
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
Yes, I could have been less sarcastic there...though I don't consider that post to be analogous to calling one an idiot. It was more a sarcastic jab at a rather foolish post. However, that wasn't the post in question. The one in response to BG was, in which I was no way confrontational. And please, lets get off the pedestal. Don't act like you and dozens of other posters here don't make sarcastic, often times insulting posts in response to others. I can provide examples of instances far more egregious than mine above.
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Do it.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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01-13-2011, 12:36 AM
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#74
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Do it.
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Well, he could probably copy and paste one of my negative rep comments.
Cad you claim to be intelligent but you keep coming around here, making the same mistakes. Why? Somehow other people aren't getting banned. It's either you don't care to make any friends here or you don't understand whats going wrong. You can't be oblivious to this and intelligent at the same time. I don't understand the concept of really wanting to come here and just make enemies.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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01-13-2011, 12:36 AM
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#75
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 6,654
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The team just looks like it is waiting for Dirk to come back, save for a couple of players. You can easily tell who is up to what.
__________________
Let's go Mavs!
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01-13-2011, 12:42 AM
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#76
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardos70
The team just looks like it is waiting for Dirk to come back, save for a couple of players. You can easily tell who is up to what.
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It's just hard to watch. I know we're not in the business of losing games here but if I'd liked to have seen DJ play a bit more tonight. Especially given Ricks comments after the game, which were something about "with guys down everyones live..." as if there is opportunity to snag some playing time, which was one reason why Alexi started and logged more minutes. He said he has been playing well in practice.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
Last edited by SMC0007; 01-13-2011 at 12:47 AM.
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01-13-2011, 12:47 AM
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#77
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
It's just hard to watch. I know we're not in the business of losing games here but if I'd liked to have seen DJ play a bit more tonight.
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DJ has a long way to go, he was a nice surge in that Cleveland game but he's still a project player.
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01-13-2011, 12:47 AM
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#78
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 553
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The thought of Dirk's retirement date terrorizes the **** out of me.
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01-13-2011, 12:50 AM
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#79
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
DJ has a long way to go, he was a nice surge in that Cleveland game but he's still a project player.
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Yes obviously, I'm just saying when things are stagnant toss him out there see if he can provide a spark. If not roll KIdd or JJ back out.
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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01-13-2011, 12:53 AM
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#80
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Yes obviously, I'm just saying when things are stagnant toss him out there see if he can provide a spark. If not roll KIdd or JJ back out.
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Off of the small glimpses I see, it looks like he's still just got a ways to go before he can really be trusted.
Last edited by BGMaverick9; 01-13-2011 at 12:54 AM.
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