What's Wrong with the Mavs - ESPN Insider Article - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

OutletPass · 01-21-2003, 01:54 AM

Not much of real substance here, just thought I'd post it so everyone could get a look at it...here's the "wisdom" according to ESPN insider.

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What's wrong with the Mavs?

The team with the best record in the NBA lost to Predrag Drobnjak Sumday night after the backup forward for the Seattle Sonics scored 19 points and grabbed nine boards.

"I don't know why we're playing so poorly," Steve Nash told the Dallas Morning News as the Dallas Mavericks dropped thier third straight game. "This is not what we had in mind on this trip."

Now, they're home to the red-hot Houston Rockets, who have won four striaght and eight of their last 10, then travel to Philly and New York, then back home against the resurgent Portland Blazers, then back on the road against Houston.

"Earlier in the year, everything was fun," Michael Finley said of the team's 14-0 start. "But now everything is a struggle. We have to remain positive, and once we come out of this thing, we're going to learn from it and be better from it."

The team hadn't lost two games in a row all season as it built an NBA-best 30-5 record prior to the four-game road trip in which the Mavs were hammered by the Sacramento Kings, 123-94, with their only victory coming against the lowly Los Angeles Clippers.

"We're struggling as much offensively as we are defensively," Mavericks coach Don Nelson said.

The Sonics had lost four straight to the Mavs before Sunday night and hadn't beaten a team with a winning record in almost six weeks.

"It's a struggle we're going through right now," Nick Van Exel said. "We just have to be men enough to get out of this hole."

The Mavericks are now 31-8, still three games better than the Kings in the loss column but only one game better than the NBA's worst team Cleveland Cavaliers, who own the league's current longest losing streak at four and have won only 8 games on the season.

LRB · 01-21-2003, 02:03 AM

obviously this is all a result of not signing Keon Clark. Keon Clark is the greatest basket ball God since MJ and the Mavericks will never win another game because they didn't sign him.

Either that or Nellie has a bad case of gas and needs someone to pull his finger. Maybe the Frenchie will be dumb enough to do it. We can only hope. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 01-21-2003, 10:05 AM

I'm extremely tired of seeing comments like yours LRB. if you want to actually debate a comment made by someone, please do.
but smart ass remarks such as yours do nothing but inflame people further.

if you think you people are knee jerking...call them out and actually prove it. if you cannot do that or do not do that, quit the smart ass b.s. and just talk basketball

Dooby · 01-21-2003, 10:23 AM

I wholeheartedly agree. Let's talk basketball. Let's debate opinions. Let's not simply dismiss the opinions of others.

Murphy3 · 01-21-2003, 10:27 AM

it is fine if you don't agree..but if you want to accuse me or anyone else of being a knee jerker..back it up. trust me, i don't mind..if you have the balls to call someone out then back it up with proof

Rhylan · 01-21-2003, 11:25 AM

<< "I don't know why we're playing so poorly," Steve Nash told the Dallas Morning News as the Dallas Mavericks dropped thier third straight game. "This is not what we had in mind on this trip." >>

This is what pisses me off. And it's like this every time the Mavs go through a period of playing badly. To a man, each major contributor is all "I don't know why, I don't understand, eaehuhhheuhhh, I'm a weeeeeenie."

It's BS -- if they don't really know, then they need to get Vince Lombardi or somebody in here to tell them. When Ortegel and Harper spend the better part of every broadcast for the last month saying the SAME THINGS -- run the offense through Dirk, make the extra pass, less off the dribble, the spread offense sucks, we're not getting penetration and kick, we're not making hard fouls, we're playing matador defense on the perimeter -- then by God, the stupid players and coaches ought to know.

Seriously. I know. You know. Your grandma knows. This is ridiculous.

One more thing -- I have always been the first to laud the Mavs on their mental toughness and gamesmanship for the past three seasons, when the rest of the world was trying to characterize them as Soft White Boyz because of the lack of tattoos, corn rows, and And1 endorsements. But I'll tell you -- I don't know if the Mavs have started to believe it, or the coaches, or who -- but ever since the Utah game on Dec 20th, at the latest, they have played like Soft White Boyz. With the exception of the Philly game on Jan 4th and Boston on the 10th, these guys have not played a good game in a month. At least.

USAPA · 01-21-2003, 11:50 AM

The Mavs have been hung over their loss to the Kings! It looks like it really bothered them mentally!

Chef Ed · 01-21-2003, 12:13 PM

This is definatly a mental thing. I can't put my finger on who is actually responsible, but some of the blame has to be place on Nellie, and the rest of the coaching staff. No, not to the point that you think about replacing Nellie, or making some trade to shake things up, but SacTown really put the hammer on us, and I still say that it is fake. They can't shoot the percentage they did that night on a game to game basis. It may be that they strugle until they play them again on the 4th. I hope that isn't the case, but it may be.

I know this is redundant, but the season is 82 games, and you can't expect this team, or any other to keep the pace they set for the first half of the season. Jordan did, but that was Mike. This is different, and we have problems that have been a part of this team for some time. We just need to keep possitive, and remember that we still have the best record in the NBA. That may be fake as well, but it holds some water........

USAPA · 01-21-2003, 12:21 PM

<< This is definatly a mental thing. I can't put my finger on who is actually responsible, but some of the blame has to be place on Nellie, and the rest of the coaching staff. No, not to the point that you think about replacing Nellie, or making some trade to shake things up, but SacTown really put the hammer on us, and I still say that it is fake. They can't shoot the percentage they did that night on a game to game basis. It may be that they strugle until they play them again on the 4th. I hope that isn't the case, but it may be. >>

The Kings game is tailor made for the zone defense of the Mavs. If they don't change their defensive scheme, they are dead meat to the Kings.

Chiwas · 01-21-2003, 12:26 PM

<< This is definatly a mental thing. >>

It is. They were stressed, now are tired and bored; a mental fatigue. And maybe Nelson is sick, as cin suggested to me.

Chef Ed · 01-21-2003, 12:26 PM

I agree about the zone. But you have to admitt that even for the Kings to shoot 65 % from three point line, and 55 % from the floor is a bit much. Go look at all the gamest the Kings have played this year, and they don't even come close to that anywhere. Well maybe against the Net's earlier in the week, but that's it. They won't do that again, and they sure won't do it in Dallas. Don't forget that the next game they played against the Clippers they lost. So much for consistancy for the Queens.......

USAPA · 01-21-2003, 01:06 PM

<< I agree about the zone. But you have to admitt that even for the Kings to shoot 65 % from three point line, and 55 % from the floor is a bit much. Go look at all the gamest the Kings have played this year, and they don't even come close to that anywhere. Well maybe against the Net's earlier in the week, but that's it. They won't do that again, and they sure won't do it in Dallas. Don't forget that the next game they played against the Clippers they lost. So much for consistancy for the Queens....... >>

Not only do the "Queens" have good outside shooters, probably the best, the zone is very predictable. I agree about the shooting percentage of the Kings in that game to be high but if it goes down, it only changes the margin for victory, not the outcome. I'd say the Mavs defense is confused at this point. They can't stop teams and if they lose again tonight, there will be bigger cries on it! Francis can take the ball to the hoop or hit from the outside --- bad news for the zone defense. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

LRB · 01-21-2003, 05:15 PM

<< I'm extremely tired of seeing comments like yours LRB. if you want to actually debate a comment made by someone, please do.
but smart ass remarks such as yours do nothing but inflame people further.

if you think you people are knee jerking...call them out and actually prove it. if you cannot do that or do not do that, quit the smart ass b.s. and just talk basketball >>

Murphy: I don't think that you're entirely blameless for making smart ass remarks on this board. If you're tired of seeing my smart ass remarks, just ignore them.

Sarcasm is an effective method of making a statement. If you don't like, tough. However, I was aiming more at humor than making a statement. Sounds like you're just a tad bit touchy though. Or maybe its just gas. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

kg_veteran · 01-21-2003, 05:18 PM

LRB - I generally respect what you have to say, but this particular comment seemed like nothing more than a sarcastic dismissal of my argument the other day that Keon Clark would have been a valuable offseason addition. If you don't think so, I'd love to know why rather than simply hearing that you don't think so.

LRB · 01-21-2003, 05:35 PM

KG: while there was some sarcasm directed at your and others arguments for Keon Clark, which I do not feel would have been a difference maker to the Mavs, I only picked this argument out of the air, to set up the second part of my statement.

Realisticly could Keon done some things to help this team? He could, he's not a totally worthless player. Do I believe that he would have solved the Mavs problems. Absolutely not. Keon is not a good enough offensive player to get many minutes under the Mavs system on a regular basis. His defense one on one may be a little better than most of our bigs, but he's no Shaq stopper and he's no Duncan stopper. He can't rebound as well as Bradley nor can he dominate a the paint defensively as well as Bradley. Shawn isn't getting playing time despite good play, so why would Keon?

I could have said all that and more. The point was I really wasn't interested in debating Keon or making a point about how over hyped I think he is. I was just interested in making a joke. A joke with some biting humor, but a joke none the less. Really what I was saying was don't take things so seriously. The Mavs slump really could be something that will pass (pun intended) like Nellies fictional gas. Yeah it might not. But I think that we have tons of posters who have most eloquently represented that point of view.

kg_veteran · 01-21-2003, 05:53 PM

<< KG: while there was some sarcasm directed at your and others arguments for Keon Clark, which I do not feel would have been a difference maker to the Mavs, I only picked this argument out of the air, to set up the second part of my statement.

Realisticly could Keon done some things to help this team? He could, he's not a totally worthless player. Do I believe that he would have solved the Mavs problems. Absolutely not. Keon is not a good enough offensive player to get many minutes under the Mavs system on a regular basis. His defense one on one may be a little better than most of our bigs, but he's no Shaq stopper and he's no Duncan stopper. He can't rebound as well as Bradley nor can he dominate a the paint defensively as well as Bradley. Shawn isn't getting playing time despite good play, so why would Keon? >>

The problem that I have with arguing that Keon "is not a good enough offensive player to get many minutes under the Mavs system on a regular basis" is that you're basically saying that if the player is one Nellie won't want to utilize, we shouldn't bother acquiring them. Keon could have helped make the team a better defensive and rebounding team, and would have dramatically improved our depth. If he wasn't going to receive minutes here, that's a problem with Nellie, not with Clark. There never will be a Shaq or Duncan stopper, so saying he's not that is not a valid argument against his potential contributions to the team. Plus, I'm really looking at Keon as a guy who is a much more physical defender than LaFrentz, and a much BETTER defender. Thus, he could have done things LaFrentz can't do, even if he isn't the shotblocker Shawn is.

You can't have enough talented bigs. The fact that he went to our opponent makes it even worse.

As for the joke, I got it, it just wasn't all that funny, because you've told it a few times.

LRB · 01-21-2003, 06:10 PM

KG: I'm didn't say that Keon wouldn't have added to our depth, nor that he wasn't a more physical and better defender than Raef. I'll give you that. His drop off on the offensive end though is a good bit when compared to Raef. That said, I think we would have been much better off having Keon that some other members of our bench like Popeye or Esch. I would rather have Keon as a big on the bench than either of the 2. Could we have made it work getting Keon instead of Popeye? I'm not familiar enough with the money that they're making to know.

But I feel it is more than a Nellie thing that Keon wouldn't fit in. It is the system and the way that this team is built. He could get a few minutes, 10 to 15 average tops IMO. Remember for good or bad, Nellie is a big part of the system also. Regardless though, I don't think Keon or any one defensive player will make that big of a difference on the Mavs. We need team effort. We need to play defense as a team. We have too many sub par defenders for any single defender to compensate for. If we play good team defense, which I feel we are capable of, I think we will be allright. If we don't do this, I think we will have problems until we get at least 4 very good defenders on the floor. That would mean revamping the team system. With this system, I feel that it is imparitive to play good team defense.

As for the joke, well you can see why I don't do that for a living. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 01-21-2003, 06:43 PM

the problem is, is that people such as yourself resort to sarcasm and almost always only sarcasm to "debate"... you totally discount what others have to say without actually giving something in return to dispute their claims.

i have no problem with sarcasm..but mix in some actual points to back up your claims..
i'm a very big fan of sarcasm..but sarcasm and sarcasm alone don't get you very far

LRB · 01-21-2003, 07:31 PM

<< the problem is, is that people such as yourself resort to sarcasm and almost always only sarcasm to "debate"... you totally discount what others have to say without actually giving something in return to dispute their claims.

i have no problem with sarcasm..but mix in some actual points to back up your claims..
i'm a very big fan of sarcasm..but sarcasm and sarcasm alone don't get you very far >>

Murphy: I understand what you are saying about "sarcasm only" or "sarcasm mostly", however neither of those have been the pattern of my overall posts in this forum. Maybe you haven't read all of my posts, I surely haven't read all of your posts. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

I get your point, and agree with it on general principle. Just don't feel that my overall posts have met that criteria. And if you want points to back up my sarcasm, all you have to do is ask.

Murphy3 · 01-21-2003, 07:40 PM

it should be a given that you supply something to back up sarcasm.
yes, alot of your posts do have substance..but, in some of the recent debates, more have had just general disagreement or sarcasm instead of actually backing up what you had to say.

if you think nellie is doing a great job,..say why you think he is

if you think that the mavs don't need to change some of their offensive and defensive philosophies..tell us why..not that we're just wrong for thinking so because the mavs are 31 and 8 or whatever
(just using a couple of examples in general..they might not specifically apply to you)

LRB · 01-21-2003, 07:55 PM

Murphy: I cannot think of an example where I have used sarcasm without backing it up with more details into my thinking either before or after the post where the sarcasm was used. But if you wish to limit sarcasm to only posts that back up the sarcasm, I will have to respectfully disagree with you there. I still feel that sarcasm is a valid form of expression in and of itself. I will not use it as my main form of expression, nor do I think that it should be used as such. But again, if you or anyone wishes to have the supporting details, all you have to do is ask. I'm sorry if that doesn't pass mustard with your standards.

Chiwas · 01-21-2003, 08:08 PM

I can't know what's wrong with the Mavs yet.

And my concept about sarcasm is weakened now.

David · 01-21-2003, 08:34 PM

<< LRB - I generally respect what you have to say, but this particular comment seemed like nothing more than a sarcastic dismissal of my argument the other day that Keon Clark would have been a valuable offseason addition. If you don't think so, I'd love to know why rather than simply hearing that you don't think so. >>

Right before the free agent signing period, Clark had some kind of pot incident. That doesn't mean much to me but from a PR standpoint, I could see why the Mavs wouldn't be interested. Another thing is, Clark has a reputation for poor work habits. He was drafted by Orlando, traded to Denver, then traded to Toronto and Toronto allowed him to walk in free agency. All in about 4 years. Something is up with this guy. Also the Mavs had an offer out for Rashard Lewis and then Michael Redd that had the exception money tied up, if they wanted Clark, which they didn't.

MFFL · 01-21-2003, 09:26 PM

Obviously Keon wasn't wanted ANYWHERE in the NBA - the best deal he could get was a one year deal.

dude1394 · 01-22-2003, 12:08 AM

I actually don't like keon's game much at all. He looks good in sacremento because he's basically a garbage guy. Ok, I still think he'll be on the pine when the other dude shows up.

The fella that I DID like was donyell marshall however.