Jeremy Lin.... - Page 16 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Of course the system and opportunity are a large factor in this - I've said so myself (d'antoni's system, d'antoni about to get fired, Lin not looking over his shoulder, etc.). But the system doesn't cause the % he is putting up. If he was shooting 30 times a game and making 30%, I'd be right there with you. But he's not.

Not my words...I'm just adding the opinions of some NBA players. You're welcome to disagree with them, obviously.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 04:40 PM

"i'm not wrong, you dumb fuck"

"i won't change my stance"

all that is fine and good, like i said, you are entitled to your opinion. Just as everyone else is entitled to theirs. We agree on that.

Just wondering at what point you would be able to claim that you are right/wrong. If he performs well as a starter for a year? 2 years? 3 years? What's good enough for you?

Right now, the Lin-vangelists (i'm not one - as I said, he's going to come back to earth) are correct. And i give them that. I'm not arguing with them.

The only thing he's shown as a flaw in his game are turnovers. You're just so far on the negative on the kid that it's all you focus on. There's evidence that TO% is a better stat to look at, as well as usage rate, and you dismiss it (with an unbelievably rude attitude - that's why you suck).

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Not my words...I'm just adding the opinions of some NBA players. You're welcome to disagree with them, obviously.

Ha ha classic. "'Here are some quotes from people that know more about basketball than you' (again - rude) - oh but i'm not using them to try and back up my point so if someone disagrees, they're disagreeing with the NBA players, not me".

Another reason why you suck.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 04:55 PM

More from Terry.

"I've been a point guard in this league and 45 turnovers in seven games would have gotten me on the bench real fast. He's in D'Antoni's system, and any player that plays a guard position in D'Antoni's system has opportunities to be able to put up good numbers, and I think that's what he's been able to do. The ball's in your hands a lot and you're going to have turnovers. I think it's a lot of hype right now. Is he going to be a good player in the future? If he continues to work, he will. But given the opportunity, he's taken advantage of it. But everybody's making a lot out of just the seven games he's played. I've been in the league 13 years, and seven games don't necessarily make a career, but he does have great buzz right now. But we'll see when he face the champs tonight."

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Ha ha classic. "'Here are some quotes from people that know more about basketball than you' (again - rude) - oh but i'm not using them to try and back up my point so if someone disagrees, they're disagreeing with the NBA players, not me".

Another reason why you suck.

What? You're arguments are really strange, man. Really odd.

I'm just stating what some NBA players think, to add to the pot. I realize that we're only supposed to post good things about Lin, but damn...

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

"i'm not wrong, you dumb fuck"

"i won't change my stance"

all that is fine and good, like i said, you are entitled to your opinion. Just as everyone else is entitled to theirs. We agree on that.

Just wondering at what point you would be able to claim that you are right/wrong. If he performs well as a starter for a year? 2 years? 3 years? What's good enough for you?

Right now, the Lin-vangelists (i'm not one - as I said, he's going to come back to earth) are correct. And i give them that. I'm not arguing with them.

The only thing he's shown as a flaw in his game are turnovers. You're just so far on the negative on the kid that it's all you focus on. There's evidence that TO% is a better stat to look at, as well as usage rate, and you dismiss it (with an unbelievably rude attitude - that's why you suck).

How are you not getting this? I'm just curious...

As I blatantly said in my previous post, I'M NOT WRONG AS OF YET. NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE.

What is complicated about that? It's too early to say one way or the other. So yes, if someone says I'm wrong at this juncture, that's fucking stupid. Almost as stupid as quoting it as though that proves their point....

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 05:06 PM

He's coming to come down to Earth.

To not to do so would put him in top 10 MVP voting/All-NBA conversation. In the games where he's played significant minutes, he is averaging 25/9/4/2 at 51%. Must mention the 6 turnovers but that's certainly Russell Westbrook territory.

If anything, that supernova performance is why I think he'll regress (it's certainly not because he's going to get less experienced, smaller or slower). Perhaps a Jose Calderon or poor Steve Nash level should be reasonable (15-7?). Again, big question is the Melo fit. Melo could bog down the offense or Melo could let him conserve a little more energy, pull off the hard doubles, improves spacing.. who knows..

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 05:10 PM

Not really super interested in JET's opinion as Lin is 8-1 and has gotten nods of respect and approval from PGs like Magic, Nash and now Kidd. To be fair to JET, the hype quote was a pre-game quote. Afterwards, JET was more kind to the new sensation...

“I think they found something in Lin, and they’re starting to piece together a team that can beat anyone,” Mavs guard Jason Terry said.

The before:

Before the game he called the hoopla surrounding Lin a lot of hype and wondered if the kid can really keep it going, saying, "We'll see when he faces the champs."

I think it's underestimate him at your own risk at this point.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Not really super interested in JET's opinion as Lin is 8-1 and has gotten nods of respect and approval from PGs like Magic, Nash and now Kidd. To be fair to JET, the hype quote was a pre-game quote. Afterwards, JET was more kind to the new sensation.

Eh...not really. But part of that is just Jet being Jet.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

How are you not getting this? I'm just curious...

As I blatantly said in my previous post, I'M NOT WRONG AS OF YET. NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE.

What is complicated about that? It's too early to say one way or the other. So yes, if someone says I'm wrong at this juncture, that's fucking stupid. Almost as stupid as quoting it as though that proves their point....

You really seem to be the one missing my point/question as you rush to criticize - at what point is the sample size big enough for you to claim you are right or admit you are wrong? I truly want to know. You seemed to indicate 5 years in a previous post, but how dare I make assumptions based on something you have actually posted.

Because as of now you appear to have an open-ended stance. My "what if, in 10 years, Lin comes off the bench?" statement was an exaggeration based on your open-ended stance. It's easy to say "he'll just be a rotational player" (or similar), when no timeline is set.

As i said before, having an opinion that he will never be more than a rotational player is just that. An opinion. I just don't see the facts we have been presented with backing up that stance. That is the argument taking place here - it appears that you think the current sample size reinforces your opinion (based solely on turnovers), when it does not.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 05:20 PM

For NBA opinions on Lin, visit:

http://www.interbasket.net/news/8298...y-nba-players/

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

What? You're arguments are really strange, man. Really odd.

I'm just stating what some NBA players think, to add to the pot. I realize that we're only supposed to post good things about Lin, but damn...

You are either completely oblivious (or just intentionally confrontational) to pretend that posting quotes from players sharing your same opinion (while at the same time making a derogatory comment about another poster) is not attempting to back yourself up.

Then when a poster comments on that, you backtrack and say you weren't posting them to back yourself up?

It's a downward spiral even engaging in any posts with you. Can't believe i let myself get involved.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

You really seem to be the one missing my point/question as you rush to criticize - at what point is the sample size big enough for you to claim you are right or admit you are wrong? I truly want to know. You seemed to indicate 5 years in a previous post, but how dare I make assumptions based on something you have actually posted.

Because as of now you appear to have an open-ended stance. My "what if, in 10 years, Lin comes off the bench?" statement was an exaggeration based on your open-ended stance. It's easy to say "he'll just be a rotational player" (or similar), when no timeline is set.

As i said before, having an opinion that he will never be more than a rotational player is just that. An opinion. I just don't see the facts we have been presented with backing up that stance. That is the argument taking place here - it appears that you think the current sample size reinforces your opinion (based solely on turnovers), when it does not.

You said it yourself, I said 5 years. What exactly is open-ended about that, lol? Seems pretty fucking finite, actually.

Now, if he's averaging 20/10 next year then I'd say I'll go ahead and admit defeat and that I'm wrong. But otherwise, yeah, 5 years.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

You are either completely oblivious (or just intentionally confrontational) to pretend that posting quotes from players sharing your same opinion (while at the same time making a derogatory comment about another poster) is not attempting to back yourself up.

Then when a poster comments on that, you backtrack and say you weren't posting them to back yourself up?

It's a downward spiral even engaging in any posts with you. Can't believe i let myself get involved.

I haven't backtracked once. You just re-interpret my argument in every posts. It's pretty comical.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

You said it yourself, I said 5 years. What exactly is open-ended about that, lol? Seems pretty fucking finite, actually.

Now, if he's averaging 20/10 next year then I'd say I'll go ahead and admit defeat and that I'm wrong. But otherwise, yeah, 5 years.

Ok that's what i thought. Wanted to confirm that before giving my opinion, lest i be chastised for making assumptions. My opinion is that waiting 5 years to evaluate talent is a joke, plain and simple. So good for you for having a long stance that could prove you wrong/right depending on what happens in that very extended period of time. Hell, he could tear both ACLs and be out of the league next year.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I haven't backtracked once. You just re-interpret my argument in every posts. It's pretty comical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Not my words...I'm just adding the opinions of some NBA players. You're welcome to disagree with them, obviously.

that's pretty much the very definition of a backtrack, and the one i was talking about. I wasn't saying you backtrack in general (although you probably have).

"hey, you're not disagreeing with me! These are just quotes i posted that also back up my stance. But um, if you disagree, take it up with Kidd and JET, not me"

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Ok that's what i thought. My opinion is that waiting 5 years to evaluate talent is a joke, plain and simple. So good for you for having a long stance that could prove you wrong/right depending on what happens in that very extended period of time. Hell, he could tear both ACLs and be out of the league next year.

Well obviously if he has a career ending injury, that doesn't prove me right.

I think it's a joke to evaluate a player after 2 weeks, but no one here seems to mind doing that. Tyreke Evans looked like a future all-star his rookie year. Since then he's regressed. It happens. You can't make a fair assessment of a young player after 1, or even 2 years.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

that's pretty much the very definition of a backtrack, and the one i was talking about. I wasn't saying you backtrack in general (although you probably have).

"hey, you're not disagreeing with me! These are just quotes i posted that also back up my stance. But um, if you disagree, take it up with Kidd and JET, not me"

That would only be backtracking if I said the quotes were my words to begin with...

I simply posted some quotes then you proceeded to interpret them as you please. How is that me backtracking?

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Well obviously if he has a career ending injury, that doesn't prove me right.

I think it's a joke to evaluate a player after 2 weeks, but no one here seems to mind doing that. Tyreke Evans looked like a future all-star his rookie year. Since then he's regressed. It happens. You can't make a fair assessment of a young player after 1, or even 2 years.

2 weeks is indeed a joke to evaluate end-state. But it is enough to show the facets of his game that you can see translating to a starter in the future. That's my opinion.

but 5 years is even more of a joke. If you can't see how that makes you obstinate, i just don't know what to tell you.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

That would only be backtracking if I said the quotes were my words to begin with...

I simply posted some quotes then you proceeded to interpret them as you please. How is that me backtracking?

You are so innocent. "oh woe is me! how can someone interpret that as being my stance?" That's the last i'm saying on the quote subject.

SMC0007 · 02-20-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Well obviously if he has a career ending injury, that doesn't prove me right.

I think it's a joke to evaluate a player after 2 weeks, but no one here seems to mind doing that. Tyreke Evans looked like a future all-star his rookie year. Since then he's regressed. It happens. You can't make a fair assessment of a young player after 1, or even 2 years.

Yea but fwiw Tyreke Evans is still a starter tho. Isn't the debate based around that? Not an all-star.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 07:19 PM

Don't worry, SMC - He'll just pretend he never brought up Tyreke Evans or being an all-star. He's having an imaginary argument with USA Today.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea but fwiw Tyreke Evans is still a starter tho. Isn't the debate based around that? Not an all-star.

Yeah, he is. My point is just that guys can regress. I was never a fan of Tyreke's game, but he's looked worse and worse each year, is my point.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:00 PM

I haven't seen the game tonight, but from the box score, it looks like Deron is going off a bit. And Lin still shoots too much IMO.

*On the plus side, 0 turnovers thus far.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:24 PM

Deron with a weird statline. 8 threes, 8 fts, no 2s...

LetsGoMavs · 02-20-2012, 09:27 PM

Future Mav D-Will regulating Linsanity

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:28 PM

Defensive stalwarts Baron Davis, JR Smith and Melo are being integrated into the DMA system.

Baron is a -10 in 7 minutes but Lin is in foul trouble.

DWill is a beast though.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Defensive stalwarts Baron Davis, JR Smith and Melo are being integrated into the DMA system.

Baron is a -10 in 7 minutes but Lin is in foul trouble.

DWill is a beast though.

Lin is -6 himself. Just one game, but it's interesting to see how he'll fare against teams the 2nd time around (I'm sure DWill was looking forward to some revenge, since Linsanity started against him.)

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:31 PM

Looks like melo may be overcompensating and deferring too much. With melo back, Lin should not be shooting more than melo and amare.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Lin is -6 himself. Just one game, but it's interesting to see how he'll fare against teams the 2nd time around (I'm sure DWill was looking forward to some revenge, since Linsanity started against him.)

And the main highlight from that game was Lin blowing by Williams as he was on his knees. I'm sure d-will had a little extra motivation.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Looks like melo may be overcompensating and deferring too much. With melo back, Lin should not be shooting more than melo and amare.

Agree with you there. Melo probably feels awkward knowing how he might take the flack if they start losing.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Agree with you there. Melo probably feels awkward knowing how he might take the flack if they start losing.

Absolutely. It's good for him they lost to the hornets.

But he doesn't want to come back, take more shots, then lose. MSG would turn on him in a heartbeat.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Lin is -6 himself. Just one game, but it's interesting to see how he'll fare against teams the 2nd time around (I'm sure DWill was looking forward to some revenge, since Linsanity started against him.)

Lin is holding his own. Best +/- with signficiant minutes with Fields. Chandler's also been in foul trouble and Shumpert, their best guy who should be on DWill, is out.

DWill motivated is as good as it can get in the league though. Just beasting.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:41 PM

Lin now with more than twice as many shots as melo. Not good.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Lin is holding his own. Best +/- with signficiant minutes with Fields. Chandler's also been in foul trouble and Shumpert, their best guy who should be on DWill, is out.

DWill motivated is as good as it can get in the league though. Just beasting.

See...this is what I'm talking about not being objective.

I'm sorry, but Lin is NOT holding his own.

He's 5-15 with 13 points. The man he's guarding 36/6 on 19 shots.

It's one game, but you can't even admit that he got schooled tonight.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:44 PM

I think Melo's shots will only go up. It's his first game back. He's been out of a rhythm.

In a few games, I expect the shot distribution to be more in its natural place.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

See...this is what I'm talking about not being objective.

I'm sorry, but Lin is NOT holding his own.

He's 5-15 with 13 points. The man he's guarding 36/6 on 19 shots.

It's one game, but you can't even admit that he got schooled tonight.

His shot isn't there but his +/- is fine.

DWill is clearly in a zone (career shooting game?). He's done a lot of his damage against other defenders, too. That was the point about Baron.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I think Melo's shots will only go up. It's his first game back. He's been out of a rhythm.

In a few games, I expect the shot distribution to be more in its natural place.

Oh yes, for sure. As I said above, he's probably overcompensating. It will take a few games to adjust, more than likely.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:49 PM

Melo/Tyson taking over a bit while DWill sits.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:55 PM

All the Nets guys are rich from 3.. not just DWill. They're 14/30 from downtown. I think the Knicks are just integrating a lot of guys (Baron, Melo, JR).

As for the Knicks' offense, it looks stuck with both Melo and Lin on the court.