The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by xrobx

This had better be a damned good episode of Shark Tank, Cuban.

That has nothing to do with it.

[oilfieldtrash]

I don't care what the f happened. Make it right Cuban and get DRAGIC!!

[Bayliss]

The Mavs offered 5 million less than the Max to Deron Williams?

Why?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

The Mavs offered 5 million less than the Max to Deron Williams?

Why?

?

[pepe]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

The Mavs offered 5 million less than the Max to Deron Williams?

Why?

Source...they can't be that dumb?

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

The Mavs offered 5 million less than the Max to Deron Williams?

Why?

Had to keep that powder dry!

[Bayliss]

Lot's of posters are saying it at Fish's site. Where they are getting it I am not sure.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by xrobx

Had to keep that powder dry!

lol

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Lot's of posters are saying it at Fish's site. Where they are getting it I am not sure.

The op said David Aldridge said it on NBA TV. I think he made it up.

[NoTnERb]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The op said David Aldridge said it on NBA TV. I think he made it up.

because you know brooklyn can offer 25 million more on a 5 year contract => 25/5= 5 million less than the max

[G-Man]

The Nets were willing to take on the worst contract in Bball to get another All-Star to play along side DWill. The Nets simply outbid the Mavs. Can't blame them for that.

Remember the cartoon where the dog with the bone in his mouth looks into the river and sees a bigger dog with a bigger bone? He opens his mouth to get it, only to drop his bone into the water and realize he was looking at his own reflection. Of course, his bone floats away. I feel like that dog tonight.

The most illusive bone in the NBA is a championship squad. Pretty close to that is a top 5 center. The Mavs have had exactly 1 of each since I started buying tickets in 1982.

What's next? Torpedo everything we have left for a 1 year rental of Howard the Whiner?

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by G-Man

The Nets were willing to take on the worst contract in Bball to get another All-Star to play along side DWill. The Nets simply outbid the Mavs. Can't blame them for that.

Remember the cartoon where the dog with the bone in his mouth looks into the river and sees a bigger dog with a bigger bone? He opens his mouth to get it, only to drop his bone into the water and realize he was looking at his own reflection. Of course, his bone floats away. I feel like that dog tonight.

The most illusive bone in the NBA is a championship squad. Pretty close to that is a top 5 center. The Mavs have had exactly 1 of each since I started buying tickets in 1982.

What's next? Torpedo everything we have left for a 1 year rental of Howard the Whiner?

I'm sure I'll come off as very strange...but I've never heard that before, haha.

As long as the level of talent stays at an elite level, most people will deal with the diva in a guy.

[rabbitproof]

I wonder if we could've sent Odom/VC/Roddy/parts to get JJ. Atlanta really got NOTHING for JJ - just a lotto protected 1st that came from Houston. Dallas could've met that. Some additional dealing and amnestying would've been required but still, I wonder if that would've changed things.

Deron/JJ/Dirk is a pretty sweet trio.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I wonder if we could've sent Odom/VC/Roddy/parts to get JJ. Atlanta really got NOTHING for JJ - just a lotto protected 1st that came from Houston. Dallas could've met that. Some additional dealing and amnestying would've been required but still, I wonder if that would've changed things.

Deron/JJ/Dirk is a pretty sweet trio.

There is...no way in hell...that Joe Johnson's contract plays for the Smartest Team In The League.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I wonder if we could've sent Odom/VC/Roddy/parts to get JJ. Atlanta really got NOTHING for JJ - just a lotto protected 1st that came from Houston. Dallas could've met that. Some additional dealing and amnestying would've been required but still, I wonder if that would've changed things.

Deron/JJ/Dirk is a pretty sweet trio.

Dirk/Deron/JJ and 9 vet minimums doesn't fit under the salary cap. 100% impossible.

[rabbitproof]

I'm not the capologist you are but how far off are we talking?

JJ and Deron remain the same.

Dirk is making double what Crash is making so you have 10M to cover. Nets added Evans/the Bosian dude for 8M?

How are they possibly talking about signing and trading for Ersan or resigning Hump?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I'm not the capologist you are but how far off are we talking?

JJ and Deron remain the same.

Dirk is making double what Crash is making so you have 10M to cover. Nets added Evans/the Bosian dude for 8M?

How are they possibly talking about signing and trading for Ersan or resigning Hump?

The Nets are not using cap space. Everything they did was over the cap, and then they used their Bird rights to re-sign Deron.

We had to have cap space to re-sign Deron. We could have signed Deron FIRST, and then traded for JJ, although we couldn't have come close to matching salary with only expiring contracts. But your scenario was getting JJ to convince Deron to come here.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The Nets are not using cap space. Everything they did was over the cap, and then they used their Bird rights to re-sign Deron.

We had to have cap space to re-sign Deron. We could have signed Deron FIRST, and then traded for JJ, although we couldn't have come close to matching salary with only expiring contracts. But your scenario was getting JJ to convince Deron to come here.

Thanks for explaining.

A way might've been found (since we would be offering some actual talent vs just cap relief) but I acknowledge it is a stretch.

Deron/JJ/Dirk would have been smooth.

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Originally Posted by OneLove22

That has nothing to do with it.

Maybe not, but it's a disgrace that Cuban couldn't even bother to show up for this meeting that's been in the works for over a year now, for a guy that his entire plan was dependent on.

[Bayliss]

Kurt Helin says Nets were clearly under orders to abandon their championship contender dreams, if necessary, in favor of mustering up a team that would be fun to watch and reasonably competitive in the East.

Maybe that's all Deron Williams wanted -- a team that wins a reasonable number of games, so he doesn't have to always lose. Or, maybe he wanted to lock in his five-year max contract, and figures he can force a trade in a year or two, if the team isn't as good as he hoped and has no chance of getting better. The end of that story hasn't been written.


The Brooklyn Nets are a much better team right now than they were 72 hours ago.

They will walk onto the court at the Barclays Center with an entertaining lineup, a team with offensive firepower, something you couldn’t really say about the squad last seen in New Jersey. They should be a team on the second tier in the East along with Indy, Boston and the Knicks. They won the battle to keep the face of the franchise in point guard Deron Williams. They should be popping champagne at the Nets headquarters tonight.

But they are not title contenders, not unless guys who have never been good at it suddenly learn to defend and board. And the way this team is built — with massive contracts for some players seeming past their prime — the moves of the last 72 hours will come back to haunt them in a couple years.

And Dwight Howard is not going to be bailing them out — all these bold moves make it nearly impossible for the Nets to trade for Howard (and there is no way they can sign him as a free agent next summer now).Howard still wants to land in Brooklyn, but it is going to take a Houdini-like escape from the confines of the CBA to find a way to free up salary to pull it off.

Nets GM Billy King was clearly under orders from owner Mikhail Prokhorov to get a team together that could open a new building, one that could compete in the nation’s largest market with the much more established Knicks. Something the Nets could sell.

He did.

Deron Williams is an Olympian and arguably the second best point guard walking the face of the earth. He’s also taken to living in New York City and will be a great ambassador for the team.

They added Joe Johnson and while we can all agree his contract is ridiculously large — $89 million over four more years — the guy is an All-Star and he can play. Johnson averaged 18.5 points per game last year, shot 38 percent from three and had a PER of 18.5.

The Nets also have Gerald Wallace, a guy who averaged 15.2 points a game, is an efficient shooter and can defend. Somehow the Nets held on to MarShon Brooks, the impressive rookie that a lot of teams coveted. They added Mirza Teletović, a quality stretch four from Europe. Reggie Evans will be a fan favorite but drive coach Avery Johnson crazy.

There are some pieces to like. This Nets roster should put up points. If Avery Johnson can get them to defend as a unit they could be better than just good.

But they are still looking up at Miami (as is everyone) and a healthy Chicago. And getting more quality pieces to change that will be nearly impossible. As you read this, the Nets have $54 million committed to six players (via Zach Lowe at Sports Illustrated who did the math). The salary cap is $58 million, and what is more by using the full $5 million mid-level exception on Teletović the Nets have locked themselves in with essentially a hard cap of $74 million they cannot exceed.

Bottom line is the Nets have $20 million to round out the roster and we haven’t talked about re-signing Brook Lopez or Kris Humphries yet. And they want to keep Lopez for sure, ideally both. Very quickly the Nets are going to be looking and inexpensive veteran minimum deals because they will be running out of space below the $74 million apron (as it is called in the CBA).

Which comes back to the dream of trading for Howard. First off, the Magic have consistently rejected an offer of Lopez, Brooks and picks for Howard and that is not suddenly going to change. The Magic have all summer or longer to make a move, they are not the ones that take the PR hit for how they handled the situation. They are more than happy to let Howard twist in the wind. And they sure as heck don’t care where he wants to go, they want the best deal for themselves.

More than that, Howard (set to make $19.5 million next year) along with Johnson, Williams, Wallace and the other couple guys already under contract but not shipped out would be owed nearly $70 million. So that leaves $4 million to get seven more guys. You’re not getting quality for that.

There are scenarios you can create where the Nets get some third party to help them out, taking on salary and opening the door for them to get Howard. But not realistic ones. And you can bet no GM in the East is going to help the Nets create another Super Team in their conference.

No, what you see with the Nets is pretty much what you get. They will be good. They will be fun. They will compete with the Knicks and the fans in Brooklyn will love them. Jay-Z will love them.

But in a few years the real cost of opening the Barclays Center the right way will come home to roost

[dude1394]

Sounds like a Dallas writer.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Sounds like a Dallas writer.

Kurt Helin isn't a Dallas writer.

[deamon]

Sorry for player like a Dirk, looks like year ago it was his first and last ring.
Get DH or die.

[Underdog]

Deadspin: Congratulations, You Are Chris Broussard’s Source

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Deadspin: Congratulations, You Are Chris Broussard’s Source

woah! That is comically awesome!

[Bayliss]

Well, Teletubby is not taking the MLE. He is taking the mini MLE. So the Nets are still in play to get Dwight Howard.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, Teletubby is not taking the MLE. He is taking the mini MLE. So the Nets are still in play to get Dwight Howard.

Deron Williams -- and Dwight Howard -- aren't coming to the Mavs, so this is a story/thread that I don't need to concern myself with anymore.

Hell, this news should probably go in the 'Around the NBA' section at this point...

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Deron Williams -- and Dwight Howard -- aren't coming to the Mavs, so this is a story/thread that I don't need to concern myself with anymore.

Hell, this news should probably go in the 'Around the NBA' section at this point...

This entire thread could, for that matter.

[rabbitproof]

Kidd's reads on things, if true, are disappointing. It means DWill was probably leaning Dallas, maybe slightly, maybe by a decent amount, maybe 51/49, but the flurry of Nets' moves (which has jeopardized their chances of acquiring Dwight) swung him to the dark side.

If true, I wonder if the JET-Boston announcement, which broke a couple hours before Deron's tweet, might've been a final straw.

[sike]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Kidd's read on things, if true, are disappointing. It means DWill was probably leaning Dallas, maybe slightly, maybe by a decent amount, maybe 51/49, but the flurry of Nets' moves (which has jeopardized their chances of acquiring Dwight) swung him to the dark side.

Yup. DWill just saw names he recognized and assumed that will certainly = wins.

Kidd's point about DWill fearing Dirk going down and being stuck on a loser was also very telling.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sike

Kidd's point about DWill fearing Dirk going down and being stuck on a loser was also very telling.

That certainly wouldn't have changed with Chandler. Chandler is great at what he does, but he's neither a scorer nor a go-to guy.

I guess the Mavs needed to get some overpaid, above-average scorer like Joe Johnson to sway Deron. Neat.

[BGMaverick9]

I hope this kind of puts an end to the argument that Dallas never really had a chance. They were there, but the flurry at the end by Brooklyn sealed it.

[rabbitproof]

Y'all need to stop ragging on Joe Johnson. Guy is a legit All-Star, top 5 SG. Overpaid, fine.

I expect him to do major damage as the 2nd banana with DWill this year.

Give credit to the Nets for have a bunching expiring assets and having the financial fortitude (it was the classic old Cuban move, I'll take on your overpaid but very talented player because I'm rich) while we're saddled with Haywood and running from the tax.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I hope this kind of puts an end to the argument that Dallas never really had a chance. They were there, but the flurry at the end by Brooklyn sealed it.

Maybe I'm not being fair but that makes me even more disappointed than if we didn't have a chance. It's like we blew our chance then. This reaction may be more of a human nature thing than rational thing.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Y'all need to stop ragging on Joe Johnson. Guy is a legit All-Star, top 5 SG. Overpaid, fine.

I expect him to do major damage as the 2nd banana with DWill this year.

Give credit to the Nets for have a bunching expiring assets and having the financial fortitude (it was the classic old Cuban move, I'll take on your overpaid but very talented player because I'm rich) while we're saddled with Haywood and running from the tax.

I'll agree with everything except for the first point. I think a lot of it is by default with the All-Star nods. I find it hard to believe he is sniffing the team if he's in the Western Conference.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Y'all need to stop ragging on Joe Johnson. Guy is a legit All-Star, top 5 SG. Overpaid, fine.

I expect him to do major damage as the 2nd banana with DWill this year.

Give credit to the Nets for have a bunching expiring assets and having the financial fortitude (it was the classic old Cuban move, I'll take on your overpaid but very talented player because I'm rich) while we're saddled with Haywood and running from the tax.

I'm not a huge JJ fan, but I wasn't even really trying to rag on him.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Maybe I'm not being fair but that makes me even more disappointed than if we didn't have a chance. It's like we blew our chance then. This reaction may be more of a human nature thing than rational thing.

But how did we blow it? It's not like Dallas could've blocked Brooklyn from re-signing Wallace and trading for JJ.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

But how did we blow it? It's not like Dallas could've blocked Brooklyn from re-signing Wallace and trading for JJ.

That's because we traded Tyson Chandler - he would've blocked the sh!t out of that trade . . . then raced up the court and threw it down with a monster 360 jam, f*ck yeah!

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

But how did we blow it? It's not like Dallas could've blocked Brooklyn from re-signing Wallace and trading for JJ.

I think Deron was impressed by the activity of Brooklyn - not necessarily the specific moves. By contrast, Dallas was a snail during that time. I know the cap situations were different and maybe Deron knew that, maybe he didn't, but the contrast in post-meeting activity is what must've popped out as he was considering his very hard decision after two presumably good meetings.

One team is resigning its 2nd best player, adding an All-Star, adding role players while the other just let its crunch time killer go. I bet someone in Brooklyn planted the "what if Dirk gets hurt" seed at that point. Just my thought.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I think Deron was impressed by the activity of Brooklyn - not necessarily the specific moves. By contrast, Dallas was a snail during that time. I know the cap situations were different and maybe Deron knew that, maybe he didn't, but the contrast in post-meeting activity is what must've popped out as he was considering his very hard decision after two presumably good meetings.

Just my thought.

The reports were that he did like the specific move of JJ (from which we can conclude that he clearly could've cared less about JJ's contract). And Dallas didn't have the luxury of having bird rights on Deron. Any aggressive moves by Dallas would have taken them out of the picture entirely. The simple fact of the matter is that Brooklyn was better positioned than Dallas in the Deron sweepstakes, and, acting on conversations they'd legally been allowed to have with Deron for months but which Dallas had been prohibited from having until only a few days ago, they very aggressively pushed their advantage to nudge the deal across the finish line. That's totally different from Dallas blowing it.