It is really for the best that the Mavs DIDN'T make a trade - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MFFL · 02-20-2003, 03:43 PM

This team was put together by Nellie and plays the style of ball that he is most comfortable with. If Cuban is going to evaluate Nellie's performance at the end of the year, wouldn't it be unfair to judge Nellie by a team that is not set up the way he likes?

Plus if the team plays poorly after the trade, then Nellie would have an "out". The team wouldn't have had time to gel. Again it would be unfair to judge Nellie by the performance of a team that had only played together for a short time.

No trades means a fair evaluation of Nellie at the end of the season. Besides, we should be able to trade NVE for Grant during the offseason. Maybe we could even get a better deal.

Murphy3 · 02-20-2003, 03:45 PM

i agree with much of your logic...i was only hoping that nellie would change..but that won't happen

nellie + NVE = small ball helps to equal early exit from the playoffs

LRB · 02-20-2003, 03:49 PM

Nice points MFFL. I'm with you 100%. I also think we can get more for NVE this summer as well. Mid season is not the time to try to fit a defensive player with huge offensive liabilities into our system.

NBAGURU · 02-20-2003, 03:49 PM

I'm glad we didn't trade anybody. We have the best record in the league.

~Don't fix anything, if it ain't broke~

Dooby · 02-20-2003, 03:49 PM

Well, this cross my mind as well. Like I have said all year, we knew this team had limitations before the season started; I don't know why we are just addressing them now. There are no excuses now. Making a trade would have given the Mavs/Nellie one. Let's see what they can do.

Should be pointed out that the Mavs' $900,000.00 trade exception has now expired.

Charlie Brown · 02-20-2003, 03:52 PM

yeah i'm not terribly disappointed . . .

i'd like to see how this team does. if we made another trade, nelson could use the excuse that his team hasn't had enough time to gel.

let's see what this team does in the playoffs. i actually think they still have a good chance to go all the way, but it requires both najera and raef to step up their games while nve takes a bit more of a backseat.

the only team i think is clearly better than us is the kings. i think shaq's toe is going to be more of a problem than the lakers would like think. i think the mavs are better than the spurs this year. the spurs simply don't have the depth to win a 7 game series IMO.

it's going to be an interesting playoffs.

anyways, there is an important game going on tonight . . . should be an exciting one.

Charlie Brown · 02-20-2003, 03:57 PM

btw, does anyone get the feeling that Shawn Bradley will be a Mav forever? i don't think he'll ever be traded.

but i actually don't mind. he's been with us through thick and thin, although he's caused most of the thin. but either way. i know it's a business, but i'm a bit partial to guys who have been with us for awhile.

if we win a championship, i really want the following guys to be there

Fin
Bradley
Dirk
Nash
Eddie

Dooby · 02-20-2003, 03:59 PM

<< i know it's a business, but i'm a bit partial to guys who have been with us for awhile.

if we win a championship, i really want the following guys to be there

Fin
Bradley
Dirk
Nash
Eddie >>

Gawd I miss Sam Cassell and Pat Garrity.

Nellie · 02-20-2003, 04:09 PM

I would have liked the toughness Grant and Best would have brought with them into the playoffs but MFFL makes a good point about letting things ride in terms of evaluation. I just fear that it's not enough...I hope I am proved wrong.

TheKid · 02-20-2003, 06:39 PM

I was only for a trade if it toughened up the interior, but if it didn't toughen up the interior then I didn't want any part of it. I agree on one level though. To truly evaluate this team, I guess we have to see how they perform after spending an entire year with each other and the playoffs. I guess then it's time to make a move if we can't do it this year.

David · 02-20-2003, 08:01 PM

<< nellie + NVE = small ball helps to equal early exit from the playoffs >>

What early exits from the playoffs are you talking about? There haven't been any in the two years that Nellie's Mavs have been in the playoffs. They were knocked out by better teams in the 2nd round. It's not as if the Mavs have blown it in the playoffs. NVE was still in Denver the 1st year and the Mavs were knocked out of the playoffs by the #1 seed, the 2nd year.

If you are talking about the future, then you are welcome to your own traditionally negative opinion, which I don't agree with.

kg_veteran · 02-21-2003, 09:51 AM

<< This team was put together by Nellie and plays the style of ball that he is most comfortable with. If Cuban is going to evaluate Nellie's performance at the end of the year, wouldn't it be unfair to judge Nellie by a team that is not set up the way he likes?

Plus if the team plays poorly after the trade, then Nellie would have an "out". The team wouldn't have had time to gel. Again it would be unfair to judge Nellie by the performance of a team that had only played together for a short time.

No trades means a fair evaluation of Nellie at the end of the season. Besides, we should be able to trade NVE for Grant during the offseason. Maybe we could even get a better deal. >>

I agree with this. I want Nellie to have a chance to succeed with the team he assembled and not have the additional difficulty of incorporating a new player. Plus, I think this team can succeed with the personnel it has.

kg_veteran · 02-21-2003, 09:51 AM

<<

<< nellie + NVE = small ball helps to equal early exit from the playoffs >>

What early exits from the playoffs are you talking about? There haven't been any in the two years that Nellie's Mavs have been in the playoffs. They were knocked out by better teams in the 2nd round. It's not as if the Mavs have blown it in the playoffs. NVE was still in Denver the 1st year and the Mavs were knocked out of the playoffs by the #1 seed, the 2nd year.

If you are talking about the future, then you are welcome to your own traditionally negative opinion, which I don't agree with. >>

Thus, if the Mavericks get the No. 1 seed, they should go to the Finals, right?

Nellie · 02-21-2003, 10:18 AM

After the aggresiveness I saw displayed last night against the Spurs, the early returns of not making a trade are more than I could have expected. If the Mavs can play with that intensity from now until the end of the season, their chances in the playoffs will be much, much better. I am extremely happy about what I saw last night. A most likely combination of the players being relieved that they aren't traded, the trust that Nellie and Cuban have put in them as a team, and simple self-discovery of what they can be capable of definitely inspired a different, more aggresive team last night.

Murphy3 · 02-21-2003, 10:25 AM

nellie, it was a very aggressive defense for most of three quarters..but i think you also must look at the personnel on the court.
i also liked that nellie came out with dirk guarding duncan right off of the bat... hopefully that will give dirk more confidence defensively

Nellie · 02-21-2003, 10:37 AM

<< nellie, it was a very aggressive defense for most of three quarters..but i think you also must look at the personnel on the court.
i also liked that nellie came out with dirk guarding duncan right off of the bat... hopefully that will give dirk more confidence defensively >>

Agreed. Dirk needs more of those types of match-ups. Playing zone doesn't help anybodys confidence individualy which has probably slowed maturity some on this team. As far as the 4th quarter goes, last night proved to me that 3 quarters of aggressive defense is enough for this team. If Nellie wants to go to small ball for a quarter and we still win the game, so be it. I saw what I wanted to see last night which was more aggresion and a Mavs win.

Rhylan · 02-21-2003, 11:41 AM

<< i agree with much of your logic...i was only hoping that nellie would change..but that won't happen

nellie + NVE = small ball helps to equal early exit from the playoffs >>

nothing you say here is wrong.. but in your haste to get NVE out of town, you forget small ball played with Timmy Hardaway, and (gasp!) Howard Eisley, even. Not so much later in the season in '00-'01 (after nash missed most of Jan & Feb w/ injuries).. but the first two months of the season, those guys were seeing extended time on the court together. And I'm sure, had Eisley not done his usual disappearing act in March, it would have been that way throughout the playoffs.

So.. NVE is not the problem -- Nellie is. NVE makes it more tempting to run small ball, BUT, Nellie is going to do it anyway.. wouldn't you rather have him do it with the most talented guy you could get? As long as Nellie is coach, I'm thankful that the Mavs have Van Exel.

Murphy3 · 02-21-2003, 11:55 AM

rhylan, my logic was that with nve out of town and with grant in town, surely there wouldn't be nearly as much small ball
but, you and i both have a sneaky suspicion that i might have underestimated nellie's love for small ball

to be honest, i would be fine with nve as a mav if someone else was the coach.. or if nellie would limit him to just backup PG minutes..but, i see no reason to believe that would happen

David · 02-21-2003, 08:53 PM

<< rhylan, my logic was that with nve out of town and with grant in town, surely there wouldn't be nearly as much small ball
but, you and i both have a sneaky suspicion that i might have underestimated nellie's love for small ball

to be honest, i would be fine with nve as a mav if someone else was the coach.. or if nellie would limit him to just backup PG minutes..but, i see no reason to believe that would happen >>

If you put this to music, it would still be a tired, old song. Kind of a tear-in-your-beer, Nellie-done-me-wrong-song.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] It doesn't have much of a beat, and you can't dance to it.

OutletPass · 02-21-2003, 09:02 PM

If you put this to music, it would still be a tired, old song.

-- tired, old song ?

Nicely autobiographical.

David · 02-21-2003, 09:13 PM

<< If you put this to music, it would still be a tired, old song.

-- tired, old song ?

Nicely autobiographical. >>

I knew one of the backup singers would chime in.

MavsFanFinley · 02-21-2003, 10:25 PM

David, why not just cool it? And I'm talking as a poster of this board, not as a moderator yet. IMO, you're just wanting to bait some posters here, it's just like old times in that regard.

Everyone here is allowed an opinion. If Murph, Bayliss, myself, MFFL, KG, OP, Chiwas, and whoever else wants to criticize some things about the Mavs, we're going to do it.

Yeah, we have the best record in the NBA, and have won games despite Nelson's antics for all offense and no defense, but that doesn't mean we have to sit back and be happy with it as you are.

We're talking about making things better, and if that means hoping for Nelson's exit as a coach here, or wishing NVE off to anywhere, whatever, we're going to do it.

As far as I can see, you're not talking basketball or justifying your stance on things, you're simply taking shots at others for their stance.

I'm able to ignore certain posters or certain comments, but I'm getting enough complaints about this that something needs to be said.

Bayliss · 02-21-2003, 10:45 PM

**laughs** MFF, surprised you mentioned my name.

And I agree 100% with the line of reasoning that it may be better that we didn't make a trade. Now, Nellie has his team that he put together. He has no excuses like last year. Everyone has played together for awhile.

David · 02-21-2003, 11:22 PM

<< David, why not just cool it? And I'm talking as a poster of this board, not as a moderator yet. IMO, you're just wanting to bait some posters here, it's just like old times in that regard.

Everyone here is allowed an opinion. If Murph, Bayliss, myself, MFFL, KG, OP, Chiwas, and whoever else wants to criticize some things about the Mavs, we're going to do it.

Yeah, we have the best record in the NBA, and have won games despite Nelson's antics for all offense and no defense, but that doesn't mean we have to sit back and be happy with it as you are.

We're talking about making things better, and if that means hoping for Nelson's exit as a coach here, or wishing NVE off to anywhere, whatever, we're going to do it.

As far as I can see, you're not talking basketball or justifying your stance on things, you're simply taking shots at others for their stance.

I'm able to ignore certain posters or certain comments, but I'm getting enough complaints about this that something needs to be said. >>

As a poster on this board, if you check some of the posts, I'm being baited at least, as much, as I bait, if not more. It looks like give and take to me. Also, if you read the posts, it looks like it's cool to give the anti-nellie agenda but not the pro-nellie agenda. I was trying to make light of the situation, with the song suggestion or was that not evident? I guess it depends on which side of the issue you sit.

Also, have I been PMing when someone takes shots at me? Nope, not a single one and there could have been dozens. I think if people are going to dish it out, they ought to be able to take it without saying, "so-n-so is picking on me". But apparently, that's just me.

dude1394 · 02-22-2003, 09:26 AM

<< i agree with much of your logic...i was only hoping that nellie would change..but that won't happen

nellie + NVE = small ball helps to equal early exit from the playoffs >>

What a shock!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

dude1394 · 02-22-2003, 09:32 AM

<< David, why not just cool it? And I'm talking as a poster of this board, not as a moderator yet. IMO, you're just wanting to bait some posters here, it's just like old times in that regard.

Everyone here is allowed an opinion. If Murph, Bayliss, myself, MFFL, KG, OP, Chiwas, and whoever else wants to criticize some things about the Mavs, we're going to do it.

Yeah, we have the best record in the NBA, and have won games despite Nelson's antics for all offense and no defense, but that doesn't mean we have to sit back and be happy with it as you are.

We're talking about making things better, and if that means hoping for Nelson's exit as a coach here, or wishing NVE off to anywhere, whatever, we're going to do it.

As far as I can see, you're not talking basketball or justifying your stance on things, you're simply taking shots at others for their stance.

I'm able to ignore certain posters or certain comments, but I'm getting enough complaints about this that something needs to be said. >>

David and Murph both play from the same songbook all of the time, you can almost predict the posts. If we can't tease them about that then what can we and if they can't take the teasing or we can't take the teasing, then tough. The only difference I see about this is that it's sort of David against Murph and a couple of other posters. Lighten up.

MavsFanFinley · 02-22-2003, 03:20 PM

<< David and Murph both play from the same songbook all of the time, you can almost predict the posts. If we can't tease them about that then what can we and if they can't take the teasing or we can't take the teasing, then tough. The only difference I see about this is that it's sort of David against Murph and a couple of other posters. Lighten up. >>

Yes, I know the history. This isn't something new between them, it's been around the block over and over and over and over and over and over.

I don't need to lighten up, I can ignore a lot of it, but when I get enough complaints in pm's, I'm going to say something about it.

When I have friends that are close to blowing and might make a post that would get them banned, I'm going to try and speak before that happens. It's kind of part of my job as moderator. When it gets to the point when those posters are tired of wading through the junk and are posting less and less, I'm going to speak up.

David and Murph can have all the pissing matches they want, but when it starts frustrating and turning other posters off that have been members of this board a long time, I'm going to speak up on their behalf.

Even if that makes me the bad guy, but if those certain posters were to speak up and be banned, then I'd leave as well.

dude1394 · 02-22-2003, 03:24 PM

<<

<< David and Murph both play from the same songbook all of the time, you can almost predict the posts. If we can't tease them about that then what can we and if they can't take the teasing or we can't take the teasing, then tough. The only difference I see about this is that it's sort of David against Murph and a couple of other posters. Lighten up. >>

Yes, I know the history. This isn't something new between them, it's been around the block over and over and over and over and over and over.

I don't need to lighten up, I can ignore a lot of it, but when I get enough complaints in pm's, I'm going to say something about it.

When I have friends that are close to blowing and might make a post that would get them banned, I'm going to try and speak before that happens. It's kind of part of my job as moderator. When it gets to the point when those posters are tired of wading through the junk and are posting less and less, I'm going to speak up.

David and Murph can have all the pissing matches they want, but when it starts frustrating and turning other posters off that have been members of this board a long time, I'm going to speak up on their behalf.

Even if that makes me the bad guy, but if those certain posters were to speak up and be banned, then I'd leave as well. >>

'Nuff said, you da' man. ;^)