Stein's Mavs Summer Scoop

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by spreedom

One thing that just occurred to me about Sanders... the Bucks could really use a PG like Calderon....

That's an interesting point... Makes me wonder how much Kyle Lowry is going to cost this summer.

Sanders/Lowry would certainly be a haul.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Since when does love have a better post game than melo??? Since when is he a better finisher? You know what their shooting %s were last year? .457/.376/.821 for love, .452/.402/.848 for melo. Considering love is so much better from everywhere than melo that seems odd when you also remember that love basically played ALL of his minutes with starters.

Melo is a better defender(at the 4 too) better shooter, better shot creator, and an equivalent rebounder relative to position. Melo is a better player. Melo has also had success as the
Man. Love? Not so much.

Melo shot 52% from restricted area this past year, Love shot 58.78% in restricted area. Love is the much more efficient player (59.1 TS% to 56.1 TS%) and they are not comparable rebounders even if you call Melo strictly a 3 (though he has played a lot of 4 last couple of years). Melo is 9th best SF by rebound rate, Love is 5th best PF by rebound rate.


Lastly only 37.6% of Love's minutes came with original starters (Brewer, Rubio, Love, Martin, and Pek). So stop with the incorrect statement

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Melo shot 52% from restricted area this past year, Love shot 58.78% in restricted area. Love is the much more efficient player (59.1 TS% to 56.1 TS%) and they are not comparable rebounders even if you call Melo strictly a 3 (though he has played a lot of 4 last couple of years). Melo is 9th best SF by rebound rate, Love is 5th best PF by rebound rate.


Lastly only 37.6% of Love's minutes came with original starters (Brewer, Rubio, Love, Martin, and Pek). So stop with the incorrect statement

But only 2.6% of his minutes came without at least two other starters. That's an incredibly small percentage for a star.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It's not like the Wolves were terrible this year. They got incredibly unlucky in close games and they were being coached by a guy with one foot out the door.

Their starting does have talent, and coincidentally their starting lineup performed pretty well. It was their bench that absolutely destroyed them, based on my understanding.

I think Love has warts of his own (he absolutely obsesses too much on his rebounds) but I'll gladly take either Love or Melo on this team in a heartbeat.

Their bench sucked because their superstar never played with them. That's not his fault but it effects his numbers

[LonghornDub]

I'm not sure that it says much at all that Love played mostly with starters. I certainly don't think that's a credible basis for discrediting his performance as all.

In fact, I'd say the logic is double-edged. If Love had played significantly with non-starters and put up gawdy numbers, it'd be easy to argue that his numbers were inflated by being the only "good" player on the court and having to do everything. It's why we should always be skeptical of any player who puts up good PPG numbers on an awful team.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

But only 2.6% of his minutes came without at least two other starters. That's an incredibly small percentage for a star.

"Starters" like Dante Cunningham, Ronnie Turiaf, Robbie Hummel, Chase Budinger, and Gorgui Dieng.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by mavs777

He got in a bar fight but I'd hardly call an argument with Neal in offseason a fight

I say go after him the same way I wanted Monta last year. Dirk sets a tone in Dallas that lets guys come from other places, feel comfortable and play their best. Getting Larry Sanders would be a big winner for Dallas.

[kg_veteran]

A few observations:

1. The Mavs are going to have to take some chances (whether it be Chandler's health, Sanders' past issues, etc.) if they want to upgrade the team enough to be a contender.

2. Blair is not worth sweating over.

3. If the Mavs can retain some vet guys like Marion and Carter on the bench while still adding a starting C and SF, they could really be interesting. A Chandler/Dalembert center combo would be very good. The SF component is equally crucial, though, because you need somebody who can play both ways. I'd still have questions about the backcourt defense, but with a backline like that, you could erase a lot more mistakes.

4. Please, please, please, don't waste our time with Carmelo Anthony (or LeBron James) talk.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

"Starters" like Dante Cunningham, Ronnie Turiaf, Robbie Hummel, Chase Budinger, and Gorgui Dieng.

No starters like Rubio, pekovic, Martin and brewer. He played 74 minutes all season without 2 of those specific 4 players.

Edit and he only played 455 minutes without at least 3 of those players on the court or 16 percent of his minutes. That's an incredibly small percentage especially when you considered pekovic missed time

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think Love has warts of his own (he absolutely obsesses too much on his rebounds) but I'll gladly take either Love or Melo on this team in a heartbeat.

Would rather have Love, but agree that you don't turn town players of their caliber.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sanders/Lowry would certainly be a haul.

Defense? Upgraded!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

Defense? Upgraded!

Yep, both interior and perimeter.

If we sent out something like Calderon/Wright for Sanders and got Lowry, we might even still have enough money to get a guy like Ariza to make up for losing Calderon's sharpshooting... But that's a lot to hope for in one offseason.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by sike

Would rather have Love, but agree that you don't turn town players of their caliber.

Preferring love for any reason other than age is absolute insanity to me, that being said you obviously have to take either if given the opportunity

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Preferring love for any reason other than age is absolute insanity to me, that being said you obviously have to take either if given the opportunity

I too prefer Love, by a fairly substantial margin. Not a Melo detractor, though.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I too prefer Love, by a fairly substantial margin. Not a Melo detractor, though.

Care to explain why? Melo and dirk could play together and they actually fit pretty well. You can't play dirk and love together

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Care to explain why? Melo and dirk could play together and they actually fit pretty well. You can't play dirk and love together

Well, I was actually just speaking about the two players' relative strengths, separate from how they would fit with Dirk. For me, Love is just the better player. I do think he pads his stats some, but I also think he's incredibly good and increasingly multifaceted in his game. He scores in the post, from the wing, and from three. He rebounds like a beast, can block shots, and can pass pretty well for a big guy. (Again, Melo does several things well too, so I don't mean to suggest otherwise.)

In terms of fit with Dirk, I don't think either is a particularly good fit, but I really think this is more about life after Dirk. I agree with others who have said that, if you have a chance to get a player of Love/Melo caliber, you do it and worry about the other stuff as it comes.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

success as the Man. Love? Not so much.

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think Love has warts...

Originally Posted by sike

Would rather have Love...

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I too prefer Love, by a fairly substantial margin.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Well, I was actually just speaking about the two players' relative strengths, separate from how they would fit with Dirk. For me, Love is just the better player. I do think he pads his stats some, but I also think he's incredibly good and increasingly multifaceted in his game. He scores in the post, from the wing, and from three. He rebounds like a beast, can block shots, and can pass pretty well for a big guy. (Again, Melo does several things well too, so I don't mean to suggest otherwise.)

In terms of fit with Dirk, I don't think either is a particularly good fit, but I really think this is more about life after Dirk. I agree with others who have said that, if you have a chance to get a player of Love/Melo caliber, you do it and worry about the other stuff as it comes.

Love cannot block shots. He's an absolutely awful defensive player. He's as bad as current dirk defensively if not worse. Melo does everything but rebound and maybe pass better than love.

[LSMF]

I don't understand this talk of getting Kyle Lowry. If our backcourt defense was already crap last season why would we then want to get even smaller? Lowry is only 6' compared to Calderon's 6'3. This just doesn't seem like a good idea if you ask me. Imagine Lowry/Ellis backcourt versus the splash bros for example. Curry and Thompson would shoot right over them all day, as would the rest of the bigger backcourts of the league.

[jamaljasonandjimmy]

just get chandler, figure it out front office!

[mac222b]

This Chandler talk reeks of smoke to me, NFL draft season style. Not saying MBT wouldn't want him back, but why give up significant assets for a rapidly aging chronically injured guy with a huge(albeit expiring) contract.

If the MBT is angling for Sanders(I hope they are) or Asik then maybe they are trying to drive the price down by appearing to have other options. Or the Knicks are throwing out rumours to gauge interest in Chandler and whether they could dump Felton or JR with him. Or the MBT is giving a wink to Melo...

I tend to agree with those around here who say not much info gets leaked from this FO that they dont want leaked. Its pretty early in the game for gamesmanship and maybe this is just some writer spitballing. I just doubt that Chandler is priority #1 this offseason at Center.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

This Chandler talk reeks of smoke to me, NFL draft season style. Not saying MBT wouldn't want him back, but why give up significant assets for a rapidly aging chronically injured guy with a huge(albeit expiring) contract.

If the MBT is angling for Sanders(I hope they are) or Asik then maybe they are trying to drive the price down by appearing to have other options. Or the Knicks are throwing out rumours to gauge interest in Chandler and whether they could dump Felton or JR with him. Or the MBT is giving a wink to Melo...

I tend to agree with those around here who say not much info gets leaked from this FO that they dont want leaked. Its pretty early in the game for gamesmanship and maybe this is just some writer spitballing. I just doubt that Chandler is priority #1 this offseason at Center.

Count me down as someone who would rather get Sanders than Chandler. We need to do more than just talk about "life after Dirk" - it's time to start getting younger... Not that I'd have a problem with Tyson coming back, but he shouldn't be our first option. Dude is really struggling with injuries these days, especially late in the season.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by mac222b

This Chandler talk reeks of smoke to me, NFL draft season style. Not saying MBT wouldn't want him back, but why give up significant assets for a rapidly aging chronically injured guy with a huge(albeit expiring) contract.

If the MBT is angling for Sanders(I hope they are) or Asik then maybe they are trying to drive the price down by appearing to have other options. Or the Knicks are throwing out rumours to gauge interest in Chandler and whether they could dump Felton or JR with him. Or the MBT is giving a wink to Melo...

I tend to agree with those around here who say not much info gets leaked from this FO that they dont want leaked. Its pretty early in the game for gamesmanship and maybe this is just some writer spitballing. I just doubt that Chandler is priority #1 this offseason at Center.

BGutz posted on here the other day that there was definitely something to this talk. Stein has said the same.

Asik and Sanders are attractive but have issues of their own (Asik is terrible on offense and can't shoot free throws, Sanders is a head case and has a four year contract that could be terrible if he doesn't fix his issues).

Chandler is injury prone and is somewhat aging (although 32 isn't super old for a center), but that's the only reason he'd potentially be available for the assets the Mavs would be willing and able to give up.

Also, the fact that Chandler's contract is expiring may be a huge, huge deal to the Mavs. Here's why: they have to figure out how to re-sign Monta after next season. Monta has a player option for his third year, and if he has another quality year, he will almost certainly opt out and sign a bigger deal. At that point, the Mavs will not have full Bird rights. They will have early Bird rights, like they did with Wright, but that won't allow them enough room to sign him.

So if the Mavs fill up their cap this season with contracts that have more than one year on them, they may be faced with a situation where they don't have enough room to re-sign Monta, or they have just enough room to re-sign him but not enough to add anyone else.

So acquiring a center that has a an expiring contract, and might even be prepared to take less to return if next season goes well could be a huge deal.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Count me down as someone who would rather get Sanders than Chandler. We need to do more than just talk about "life after Dirk" - it's time to start getting younger... Not that I'd have a problem with Tyson coming back, but he shouldn't be our first option. Dude is really struggling with injuries these days, especially late in the season.

ditto on all points.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Love cannot block shots. He's an absolutely awful defensive player. He's as bad as current dirk defensively if not worse. Melo does everything but rebound and maybe pass better than love.

He averages half a block per 36. Same as Dirk and Melo. If you play him with Dirk--which the Mavs would--he'll be blocking some shots. He blocked shots in college (1.4 per game), and he certainly has the capability.

I think debating who's worse defensively is pretty fruitless. I disagree with you that Love is a worse defender than Melo. And while we don't have many objective criteria to judge such things, Love's defensive win-shares (3.7) are substantially higher than Melo's (2.5). Doesn't necessarily prove anything, but it's better than going in circles about something that we can't really quantify.

So when you say Melo does everything better but "rebound and pass"--and I disagree with you about their defense--that leaves scoring as the thing Melo does better. He's certainly a better scorer, but Love isn't exactly a slouch there.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

BGutz posted on here the other day that there was definitely something to this talk. Stein has said the same.

Asik and Sanders are attractive but have issues of their own (Asik is terrible on offense and can't shoot free throws, Sanders is a head case and has a four year contract that could be terrible if he doesn't fix his issues).

Chandler is injury prone and is somewhat aging (although 32 isn't super old for a center), but that's the only reason he'd potentially be available for the assets the Mavs would be willing and able to give up.

Also, the fact that Chandler's contract is expiring may be a huge, huge deal to the Mavs. Here's why: they have to figure out how to re-sign Monta after next season. Monta has a player option for his third year, and if he has another quality year, he will almost certainly opt out and sign a bigger deal. At that point, the Mavs will not have full Bird rights. They will have early Bird rights, like they did with Wright, but that won't allow them enough room to sign him.

So if the Mavs fill up their cap this season with contracts that have more than one year on them, they may be faced with a situation where they don't have enough room to re-sign Monta, or they have just enough room to re-sign him but not enough to add anyone else.

So acquiring a center that has a an expiring contract, and might even be prepared to take less to return if next season goes well could be a huge deal.

I thought the early Bird rights would enable Dallas to re-sign Monta at up to 175% of his salary next year? Are you expecting him to cost more than that?

[DGM]

[QUOTE=kg_veteran;1346078]A few observations:

1. The Mavs are going to have to take some chances (whether it be Chandler's health, Sanders' past issues, etc.) if they want to upgrade the team enough to be a contender.

2. Blair is not worth sweating over.

3. If the Mavs can retain some vet guys like Marion and Carter on the bench while still adding a starting C and SF, they could really be interesting. A Chandler/Dalembert center combo would be very good. The SF component is equally crucial, though, because you need somebody who can play both ways. I'd still have questions about the backcourt defense, but with a backline like that, you could erase a lot more mistakes.

4. Please, please, please, don't waste our time with Carmelo Anthony (or LeBron James) talk.[/QUOTE

Agreed about Melo and James. Mavs should focus on guys like Chandler, Sanders and Lowry.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I thought the early Bird rights would enable Dallas to re-sign Monta at up to 175% of his salary next year? Are you expecting him to cost more than that?

After next year, we can offer him a contract starting at 14.6mill in 2015-2016 (early-bird rights up to 175% of the last year of his contract)
If he opts in to 2015-2016, then we can offer him about 21mill in 2016-2017 (full bird rights up to NBA maximum salary for a player with 10+ years in the league)

I don't think he's necessarily worth even 15mill, but that's my understanding of CBA.

[Jack.Kerr]

Whatever you believe about the legality of MJ, I really don't see any indication of a commitment from Sanders to abstain. As long as it's a banned substance by the NBA, I'd say he's a high risk for suspension. Re-RoyTarpley, anyone?

"It's something I feel strongly about, just to let you know something personal about me," Sanders said in an interview with the Journal Sentinel and nba.com. "I will deal with the consequences from it. It's a banned substance in my league. But I believe in marijuana and the medical side of it. I know what it is if I'm going to use it.

"I study it and I know the benefits it has. In a lot of ways we've been deprived. You can't really label it with so many other drugs that people can be addicted to and have so many negative effects on your body and your family and your relationships and impairment. This is not the same thing.

"The stigma is that it's illegal. I hate that. Once this becomes legal, this all will go away. But I understand for my work it's a banned substance. I will deal with the consequences and I apologize again to my fans for that."

The positive marijuana test was Sanders' third of his career, triggering the five-game suspension.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by spreedom

One thing that just occurred to me about Sanders... the Bucks could really use a PG like Calderon....

The main one thing with Sanders is that the Bucks have allready Sanders 2.0 (the version without all the legal troubles) in their roster....John Henson.

And they have to choose soon anyway with who of them both they are rolling the next years...

And there is no point to talt or dream about Kevin Love. Old UCLA guy, he is gone to the Lakers next summer...watch how the Lakers keep a max cap slot open for 2015.

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by jthig32

BGutz posted on here the other day that there was definitely something to this talk. Stein has said the same.

Asik and Sanders are attractive but have issues of their own (Asik is terrible on offense and can't shoot free throws, Sanders is a head case and has a four year contract that could be terrible if he doesn't fix his issues).

Chandler is injury prone and is somewhat aging (although 32 isn't super old for a center), but that's the only reason he'd potentially be available for the assets the Mavs would be willing and able to give up.

Also, the fact that Chandler's contract is expiring may be a huge, huge deal to the Mavs. Here's why: they have to figure out how to re-sign Monta after next season. Monta has a player option for his third year, and if he has another quality year, he will almost certainly opt out and sign a bigger deal. At that point, the Mavs will not have full Bird rights. They will have early Bird rights, like they did with Wright, but that won't allow them enough room to sign him.

So if the Mavs fill up their cap this season with contracts that have more than one year on them, they may be faced with a situation where they don't have enough room to re-sign Monta, or they have just enough room to re-sign him but not enough to add anyone else.

So acquiring a center that has a an expiring contract, and might even be prepared to take less to return if next season goes well could be a huge deal.

The Mavs shouldn't have too much of a problem re-signing Ellis . They have Early Bird rights so they can sign him to 175% of previous salary ( $8,360,000 ) So up to $14,630,000

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

He averages half a block per 36. Same as Dirk and Melo. If you play him with Dirk--which the Mavs would--he'll be blocking some shots. He blocked shots in college (1.4 per game), and he certainly has the capability.

I think debating who's worse defensively is pretty fruitless. I disagree with you that Love is a worse defender than Melo. And while we don't have many objective criteria to judge such things, Love's defensive win-shares (3.7) are substantially higher than Melo's (2.5). Doesn't necessarily prove anything, but it's better than going in circles about something that we can't really quantify.

So when you say Melo does everything better but "rebound and pass"--and I disagree with you about their defense--that leaves scoring as the thing Melo does better. He's certainly a better scorer, but Love isn't exactly a slouch there.

So to prove that he can block shots... You compare him to two guys who also can't block shots? Love is awful defensively. I don't trust defensive win shares at all. As for numbers that show their defensive ability(though I don't trust this either) +- has melo as a better defender than chandler last year

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

So to prove that he can block shots... You compare him to two guys who also can't block shots?

No. I don't think any of those 3 guys "can't" block shots. That's not what they're asked to do. Love would be asked to contribute more on the helpside if he played with Dirk. He has shown he has the capability--not to be Dikembe Mutombo, but to block more than his current .5 per 36. You could likely get a block per 36 out of him if put him in a defensive situation where he needed to provide that rotation from the weakside. The idea that he "can't" do that is pretty preposterous.

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Love is awful defensively.

I don't agree, and like others here, I'll take him over Melo. I'm really not sure how else to advance the issue forward. There's just not much we can discuss in terms of defensive stats, and otherwise we just don't agree. You're higher on Melo than anyone here, myself included, and like I said, I'm not a Melo detractor.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

No. I don't think any of those 3 guys "can't" block shots. That's not what they're asked to do. Love would be asked to contribute more on the helpside if he played with Dirk. He has shown he has the capability--not to be Dikembe Mutombo, but to block more than his current .5 per 36. You could likely get a block per 36 out of him if put him in a defensive situation where he needed to provide that rotation from the weakside. The idea that he "can't" do that is pretty preposterous.



I don't agree, and like others here, I'll take him over Melo. I'm really not sure how else to advance the issue forward. There's just not much we can discuss in terms of defensive stats, and otherwise we just don't agree. You're higher on Melo than anyone here, myself included, and like I said, I'm not a Melo detractor.

If you get love to do that, The question becomes how much does it hurt his rebounding? Does he become a 12 rebound guy? 11? 10? That's a big issue for a guy who's already awful defensively. And its not like pekovic is a shot blocker. If he could block shots, theyd want him to do so. The biggest strength melo has in reference to love defensively is that you can play melo/dirk and a rim protector. You absolutely cannot play love/dirk and a rim protector.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I thought the early Bird rights would enable Dallas to re-sign Monta at up to 175% of his salary next year? Are you expecting him to cost more than that?

Ha. Screw me. I completely forgot about that part of Early Bird rights. They're so often used on players with tiny contracts, I've always more close associated them with the salary based on league average.

Yeah, forget everything I just said about Monta.

[kg_veteran]

I still don't get why anyone would want to build around Carmelo Anthony, nor do I see how he would be a good fit with these Mavs.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I still don't get why anyone would want to build around Carmelo Anthony, nor do I see how he would be a good fit with these Mavs.

Respectfully disagree