05-12-2014, 09:06 PM
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#81
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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Are we openly rooting for Deng to fail as a Maverick before free agency has even begun?
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05-12-2014, 09:20 PM
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#82
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
I don't get that prediction. He's never averaged less than 14 pp36, and his career average is 16 pp36. Are you expecting he'd come to Dallas and have his minutes cut?
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I'm expecting he gets his minutes cut some(I'm thinking 33ish a game) and I think he's the 4th option on offense. When he's only been less than the second option for one season in his career. I just don't see his avenue to a ton of points here. He's not getting 18 ft isos here like he did in Chicago, he can't shoot and he's not a great rebounder. I just don't see why you'd run isos for him when you have so many better options.
Spree I hope deng avges 20 and 10 if he comes here, but I'm predicting what I think will happen, not what I hope will happen.
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05-12-2014, 09:28 PM
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#83
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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We won the title with Shawn averaging 12/7....sooo?
Pretty sure his TS% would automatically rise here, its the Dirk/RC factor. I also think he will "save" us some points at defense.
And if he takes high percentage shots as 3rd option and makes them, averaging something like 14PPG and plays good to great D, then im fine with him. Even with the 10m price tag.
Last edited by sefant77; 05-12-2014 at 09:28 PM.
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05-12-2014, 10:19 PM
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#84
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: 317
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt_dobber
say no to melo.
chucker.
ball stopper.
iso-ball.
chemistry-killing disaster.
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Same thing you all said about Monta Ellis lol
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05-13-2014, 01:12 AM
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#85
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,565
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Hope everyone tuned into the nets heat tonight. Joe Johnson iso on LeBron twice with less than 2 min. Bricked both shots hard and it cost them the game...that's carmelo game right there. Iso pull up jumpshot brick
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05-13-2014, 05:50 AM
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#86
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Hope everyone tuned into the nets heat tonight. Joe Johnson iso on LeBron twice with less than 2 min. Bricked both shots hard and it cost them the game...that's carmelo game right there. Iso pull up jumpshot brick
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Iv long been a joe Johnson fan, but melo is a much better player
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05-13-2014, 06:06 AM
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#87
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
Iv long been a joe Johnson fan, but melo is a much better player
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That's an understatement.
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05-13-2014, 11:04 AM
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#88
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 45
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As far as Carmelo is concerned, they shouldn't waste any resources in chasing him, but if he's interested, they should reciprocate that interest. He may be overrated, but he's still top 5 at his position. I have faith in Rick to develop better plays than isos at the end of games.
I'd love to have Deng as our 3. I don't think there's a better defensive 3 on the market, and you still have flexibility to upgrade other positions.
Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
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05-13-2014, 02:29 PM
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#89
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jproxursoxoff
No to Threat Title. Just NO. Melo is one of two elite players in this league (other being Westbrook) that im sooo glad will never be a Mav.
Melo is lockerroom cancer. Everybody knows this. The dude would take a scoring title over a playoff berth any and every year.
I repeat: NO.
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Agreed, the only year, he wasn't a cancer was when Kidd was in there. Kidd showed him how to ball the right way. 54 wins with Kidd was a career high in the team category for Melo. It tied for the 2009 season while he was in Denver...with another veteran PG, Billups. The guy needs direction that he respects, Billups, Karl, and Kidd kept the guy in line....can Dirk, Carlisle....doubtful and why gamble the max deal that it might work out....Dirk isn't going to be there forever and given the max deal, you'd expect the guy you tag the face of the franchise on after Dirk.....???? I'd pass. Deng is the smarter move, allow Monta and Calderon to create, Deng and Dirk to finish.
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05-13-2014, 03:30 PM
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#90
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd Karma
Agreed, the only year, he wasn't a cancer was when Kidd was in there. Kidd showed him how to ball the right way. 54 wins with Kidd was a career high in the team category for Melo. It tied for the 2009 season while he was in Denver...with another veteran PG, Billups. The guy needs direction that he respects, Billups, Karl, and Kidd kept the guy in line....can Dirk, Carlisle....doubtful and why gamble the max deal that it might work out....Dirk isn't going to be there forever and given the max deal, you'd expect the guy you tag the face of the franchise on after Dirk.....???? I'd pass. Deng is the smarter move, allow Monta and Calderon to create, Deng and Dirk to finish.
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So Calderon isn't a veteran pg? Carlisle isn't a leader??? This makes no sense
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05-13-2014, 03:48 PM
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#91
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
I'm expecting he gets his minutes cut some(I'm thinking 33ish a game) and I think he's the 4th option on offense. When he's only been less than the second option for one season in his career. I just don't see his avenue to a ton of points here. He's not getting 18 ft isos here like he did in Chicago, he can't shoot and he's not a great rebounder. I just don't see why you'd run isos for him when you have so many better options.
Spree I hope deng avges 20 and 10 if he comes here, but I'm predicting what I think will happen, not what I hope will happen.
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Who's the 3rd option on offense ?
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05-13-2014, 03:49 PM
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#92
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floppy
Who's the 3rd option on offense ?
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Calderon or vince
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05-13-2014, 03:58 PM
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#93
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
Calderon or vince
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So the 11.4 and 11.9 PPG guys are going to outscore the 16.0 PPG guy?
I don't see it.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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05-13-2014, 04:01 PM
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#94
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
So the 11.4 and 11.9 PPG guys are going to outscore the 16.0 PPG guy?
I don't see it.
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Context my friend, context. I'll bet anyone anything they want. Barring serious injuries to dirk or Ellis, there isn't a chance in hell that he averages 16 here.
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05-13-2014, 04:32 PM
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#95
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
Context my friend, context. I'll bet anyone anything they want. Barring serious injuries to dirk or Ellis, there isn't a chance in hell that he averages 16 here.
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Why not?
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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05-13-2014, 04:56 PM
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#96
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: state of eternal optimism
Posts: 2,842
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Deng vs Melo? I'd rather take a defensive minded center with an above average BBIQ. Find your 5, pay whatever it takes, and then fill in the SF position with whatever is left over. I doubt it will be Melo. I think Deng is unlikely. If you can't find someone to protect the rim then you better find the best defensive minded SF available and overpay them(if need be). Again, I doubt it is Melo. Deng maybe.
__________________
"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is." - Winston Churchill
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05-13-2014, 05:24 PM
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#97
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplefrog
Deng vs Melo? I'd rather take a defensive minded center with an above average BBIQ. Find your 5, pay whatever it takes, and then fill in the SF position with whatever is left over. I doubt it will be Melo. I think Deng is unlikely. If you can't find someone to protect the rim then you better find the best defensive minded SF available and overpay them(if need be). Again, I doubt it is Melo. Deng maybe.
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I'm a little split between wanting a full-time starter at center (our committee center was actually pretty good) and wanting to replace Marion, who has shown that he's finally starting to decline significantly.
I'm not sure that either need is significantly more pressing than the other.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 05-13-2014 at 05:25 PM.
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05-13-2014, 05:35 PM
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#98
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Yeah I'm not buying the JJ to Melo comparison. Melo is significantly more talented.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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05-13-2014, 05:52 PM
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#99
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
I'm a little split between wanting a full-time starter at center (our committee center was actually pretty good) and wanting to replace Marion, who has shown that he's finally starting to decline significantly.
I'm not sure that either need is significantly more pressing than the other.
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I think center's a little more pressing, but only because the top guy in the center rotation has a tendency to lose competitive focus.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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05-13-2014, 05:56 PM
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#100
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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Quick question about a couple names that haven't come up here. At what point, if any, do the Mavs take a serious look at Pierce and/or Gasol?
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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05-13-2014, 06:12 PM
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#101
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
Quick question about a couple names that haven't come up here. At what point, if any, do the Mavs take a serious look at Pierce and/or Gasol?
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4 years ago.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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05-13-2014, 06:13 PM
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#102
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
Quick question about a couple names that haven't come up here. At what point, if any, do the Mavs take a serious look at Pierce and/or Gasol?
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I just don't see how Pierce makes any sense if the Mavs are trying to fix their defense. Gasol is interesting, but I feel like his price might be higher than they are willing to pay.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-13-2014, 06:29 PM
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#103
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Old School Balla
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr
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This is pretty much where I come down on the subject of pursuing Carmelo Anthony.
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05-13-2014, 08:55 PM
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#104
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Why not?
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Because what he does to get most of those points, he won't get to do here. He's the anti monta Ellis. Monta was a player with obvious flaws but who had an obvious route to succeed on this team. The pick and roll with dirk and just flat attacking the rim while our shooting spaced the floor.
Deng doesn't really have any huge holes other than shooting in his game but he also doesn't have a clear path to success. There are obviously a ton of ways to score in an basketball game but if you were going to break them down they would look like this in no order spot up shooting(deng can't do it), pick and roll ball handling(deng can't do it), pick and roll screening(he can do it in the sense that anyone can do it and he actually currently finishes a decent number of pick and rolls with the mid post game dirk has, he's just not good enough at it for that to be a desired outcome), cuts(deng is solid at this but not special), garbage including offensive rebounds, broken plays and the like(deng isn't much of an offensive rebounder but he gets a decent amount of garbage buckets due to his bbiq), and finally iso either on the perimeter or in the post. This is how deng gets most of his points, on 18 foot ft line extended isos. The problem with that is, if he comes to the mavs and we are goin to run 18 ft ft line extended isos for a forward, he won't be getting them.
I'm really curious, what exactly do you think we will run for him for him to score so much? Do you really think we ISO him with dirk or monta or vince or even harris on the floor consistently? Do you think he spots up and suddenly becomes a much better shooter? Do we choose to use him as the roll man in the pick and roll instead of dirk? I just honestly don't see it happening. Deng is every bit as bad if not worse as a shooter than Marion(and I mean Marion now, not Phoenix Marion) he doesn't rebound as well and hes not much of a passer either.
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05-13-2014, 09:27 PM
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#105
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I just don't see how Pierce makes any sense if the Mavs are trying to fix their defense. Gasol is interesting, but I feel like his price might be higher than they are willing to pay.
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I was actually thinking Gasol would be the bigger question mark on the defensive end, though certainly neither would do anything for team speed/athleticism. I do think both are the kinds of guys that could do well on a Carlisle-coached team, though, and I wonder if they might not end up being relatively smart buys in this free agent class.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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05-13-2014, 09:36 PM
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#106
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
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I don't remember changing the title of this thread..
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05-13-2014, 10:37 PM
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#107
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yahyes
I don't remember changing the title of this thread..
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You didn't but it was a grammatical nightmare
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05-13-2014, 10:57 PM
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#108
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
You didn't but it was a grammatical nightmare
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05-13-2014, 11:26 PM
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#109
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,599
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05-13-2014, 11:29 PM
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#110
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,395
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damn chris paul is a choker
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05-13-2014, 11:44 PM
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#111
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
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Gortat, Melo, Devin, Blair, Vince, Marion, and DIRK. Sign these guys.
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05-14-2014, 06:41 AM
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#112
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
Quick question about a couple names that haven't come up here. At what point, if any, do the Mavs take a serious look at Pierce and/or Gasol?
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I spent some time considering Pierce a couple weeks ago. Ultimately I decided that, although he's still a solid player and seems to still be a solid team defender, I just don't see how this team is successful without a SF in the starting lineup that can guard quickness.
If they want to make Shaun Livingston their starting PG then Pierce is someone that might make sense. But if Calderon or even Harris are going to be starting at PG I don't see it.
With Gasol your'e just betting that he awesome offensive combination up front makes up for terrible defense. Just not sure we can make that work.
Last edited by jthig32; 05-14-2014 at 06:44 AM.
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05-14-2014, 01:39 PM
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#113
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
So Calderon isn't a veteran pg? Carlisle isn't a leader??? This makes no sense
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I did not say leader, they maybe great leaders, but can they garner Melo's respect? Respect is a whole different thing. Individuals are different, react differently. Kidd had Melo's respect from Day 1 when in NY. Why? I don't know, that's more psychological than anything else.
Like I said, if you're willing to gamble max money on Melo that he'll respect Calderon and Carlisle enough to lead the Mavs back to the championship, then great, lets go get him. The Knicks were a mess this year, and Kidd was a huge part of it. Melo went out and got his, but they didn't defend, offense was harder, spacing was bad. Melo is not a leader and post Dirk, is this the guy you want to saddle the face of the franchise on. Or do you chase a cheaper piece like Deng and continue to look for the successor to Dirk on the peripheral....keeping the options open.
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05-14-2014, 01:42 PM
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#114
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
I spent some time considering Pierce a couple weeks ago. Ultimately I decided that, although he's still a solid player and seems to still be a solid team defender, I just don't see how this team is successful without a SF in the starting lineup that can guard quickness.
If they want to make Shaun Livingston their starting PG then Pierce is someone that might make sense. But if Calderon or even Harris are going to be starting at PG I don't see it.
With Gasol your'e just betting that he awesome offensive combination up front makes up for terrible defense. Just not sure we can make that work.
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Defense is going to be huge in the west. If you get a guy that can make things difficult on KD, that's a huge wild card that you have. Deng as the replacement for Marion is not a bad way to go. KD will still get his, but how? You want to empty that gas tank fast, make him take difficult shots, make him work for those shots....so when's Tony Allen an FA?
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05-14-2014, 01:50 PM
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#115
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
Because what he does to get most of those points, he won't get to do here. He's the anti monta Ellis. Monta was a player with obvious flaws but who had an obvious route to succeed on this team. The pick and roll with dirk and just flat attacking the rim while our shooting spaced the floor.
Deng doesn't really have any huge holes other than shooting in his game but he also doesn't have a clear path to success. There are obviously a ton of ways to score in an basketball game but if you were going to break them down they would look like this in no order spot up shooting(deng can't do it), pick and roll ball handling(deng can't do it), pick and roll screening(he can do it in the sense that anyone can do it and he actually currently finishes a decent number of pick and rolls with the mid post game dirk has, he's just not good enough at it for that to be a desired outcome), cuts(deng is solid at this but not special), garbage including offensive rebounds, broken plays and the like(deng isn't much of an offensive rebounder but he gets a decent amount of garbage buckets due to his bbiq), and finally iso either on the perimeter or in the post. This is how deng gets most of his points, on 18 foot ft line extended isos. The problem with that is, if he comes to the mavs and we are goin to run 18 ft ft line extended isos for a forward, he won't be getting them.
I'm really curious, what exactly do you think we will run for him for him to score so much? Do you really think we ISO him with dirk or monta or vince or even harris on the floor consistently? Do you think he spots up and suddenly becomes a much better shooter? Do we choose to use him as the roll man in the pick and roll instead of dirk? I just honestly don't see it happening. Deng is every bit as bad if not worse as a shooter than Marion(and I mean Marion now, not Phoenix Marion) he doesn't rebound as well and hes not much of a passer either.
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Great points, his numbers offensively went down in Cleveland, you'd expect with a better PG, he'd get cleaner looks, but his percentage went down as well, shots dropped. Is he a one trick pony hidden in Chicago's recent success?
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05-14-2014, 04:53 PM
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#116
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,104
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If people are concerned that Deng was just a product of Thibodeau's system, then I don't see why he can't be that for Carlisle's system. Deng is a two way player. He may not be a great offensive or defensive player, but he has a pretty good all-around game when he gets going and is healthy. I have some reservations about him as well, but damn, we gotta sign somebody.
Seems like opinions are all over the place. Most of us would agree that this is a make or break summer still...no? You gotta go after somebody so Melo, Deng, Gasol, Pierce, Monroe, Gortat, Ariza...def have prioritize who you're going to construct your team with.
I know he isn't too popular around here, but I'd still take a hard, long look at Monroe. Young bigs with his talent rarely come along. And even though he isn't ideal defensively next to Dirk, he would be a guy who you could build around more long term. Plus, we'd still have Dalembert for defense. I think about it this way...if we had Monroe versus the Spurs, do we win that series? What about Deng? I do think that is how the FO has to think. What players would be needed to beat the Spurs and/or Thunders of the world.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 05-14-2014 at 04:54 PM.
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05-14-2014, 07:22 PM
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#117
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
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Steve Kerr isn't going to coach the Knicks after all.. Which means Mavs should be first in line if Phil Jackson is about to do a fire sale to first start trading Tyson. Then we can see if Melo wants to join.
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05-14-2014, 09:05 PM
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#118
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
If people are concerned that Deng was just a product of Thibodeau's system, then I don't see why he can't be that for Carlisle's system. Deng is a two way player. He may not be a great offensive or defensive player, but he has a pretty good all-around game when he gets going and is healthy. I have some reservations about him as well, but damn, we gotta sign somebody.
Seems like opinions are all over the place. Most of us would agree that this is a make or break summer still...no? You gotta go after somebody so Melo, Deng, Gasol, Pierce, Monroe, Gortat, Ariza...def have prioritize who you're going to construct your team with.
I know he isn't too popular around here, but I'd still take a hard, long look at Monroe. Young bigs with his talent rarely come along. And even though he isn't ideal defensively next to Dirk, he would be a guy who you could build around more long term. Plus, we'd still have Dalembert for defense. I think about it this way...if we had Monroe versus the Spurs, do we win that series? What about Deng? I do think that is how the FO has to think. What players would be needed to beat the Spurs and/or Thunders of the world.
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It's not just that he was a product of the system, it's that he was a product of the touches, and the fact that they were an awful offense is a big reason why he got those touches. I think Ariza is going to get massively overpaid too but I think he fits better than deng. I also wouldn't be opposed to sefalosha depending on what he costs. All that said, and even realizing how unlikely it is, melo should be our top priority(not counting Lebron)
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05-15-2014, 04:52 PM
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#119
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,565
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In assessing the Knicks’ situation, Kerr had told confidants that he believed Anthony could be a dynamic weapon in the triangle offense that Jackson is hoping to have his new coach install. But he was less sanguine about whether Anthony, who will turn 30 this month, would be eager to re-tailor the way he plays at this point in his career.
Kerr was wary of Anthony’s willingness to deal with a learning curve, along with the prospect of a roster rebuild, or what he described to NBA.com as “a big undertaking” that would “take time.”
The end.
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05-15-2014, 05:49 PM
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#120
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
In assessing the Knicks’ situation, Kerr had told confidants that he believed Anthony could be a dynamic weapon in the triangle offense that Jackson is hoping to have his new coach install. But he was less sanguine about whether Anthony, who will turn 30 this month, would be eager to re-tailor the way he plays at this point in his career.
Kerr was wary of Anthony’s willingness to deal with a learning curve, along with the prospect of a roster rebuild, or what he described to NBA.com as “a big undertaking” that would “take time.”
The end.
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The Knicks are the only team that really needs to be concerned about that, IMO. They can, and will, offer him more money than anybody else, and hence there's a good chance that he'll stay regardless of his willingness to work with the new coach and in the new system. If he leaves, though, he'll be giving up millions to do so, and it seems to me unlikely that he'd make that kind of sacrifice if he weren't excited about the prospect of working with whoever his new coach was going to be. Of course, I also think that he's very unlikely to pass on the money, and will end up re-signing with NY regardless of their new coach/system. But that doesn't change my view that there's almost no chance whatsoever that Dallas ends up locked into a bad-for-the-team long-term deal with Anthony.
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"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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