Mavs get Parsons!!! - Page 30 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

hayth.james.g · 07-17-2014, 10:50 PM

Just watched this 19 minute long Parsons video that went up tonight. Yeah keep convincing yourself that Ariza is an upgrade. Maybe he is considering his defense. I'm sure you guys will do well.. but yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVA5ydQS4_E

gmoney411 · 07-17-2014, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Let me rephrase:

There is only one psychological reason for you to be here right now at all, and it's not to just "have a conversation."

it's to debate. I happen to know a lot about the Rockets and this thread happens to have people that are willing to debate and not in a one sided way. It's all in good fun. But I'd be curious to know what you think the reason is.

gmoney411 · 07-17-2014, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

See here we go again. Ariza is not a better 3 pt shooter than Parsons. Maybe you can make the argument of equivalent. In 10 seasons he has eclipsed Parsons career average 1 time. Maybe he will continue his success, but Harden doesn't have the court vision or passing skill of John Wall. I would be very surprised if he gets close to the same numbers he got Washington. You automatically assume Ariza is going to continue to get better or be equal to what he has done in Washington with a phenomenal penetrating PG. How come it's such a given when we are talking about Ariza, but when we talk about Parsons further developing, or trending upwards it's unlikely or lukewarm at best?

Also with losing Parsons your floor spacing goes down. Hes an equivalent 3 point shooter, but you lose his passing ability, driving, and fast break points.

The difference between Ariza's 3 point shooting and Chandler's shooting last year was 3% which isn't a small difference when it comes to 3 point shooting. Both players were getting similar shots last year. Ariza is going to get those same corner looks because Harden is every bit as good as John Wall when it comes to getting to the hoop and creating good looks for other players. Even if Ariza loses that 3% the Rockets are still getting Chandler level production out of him.

And I'm saying that Ariza will stay the same or close not get better. His contract is based off him being a similar player to what he was last year while Chandler's contract is based on him becoming a better player. Two completely different things.

And beause the Rockets rely on Bev and Harden so much for ball handling I don't think spacing will be an issue without Ariza if he is the equivalent of Chandler shooting wise. They are still going to have to pack the paint to account for Harden's penetration and Howard's low post scoring.

hayth.james.g · 07-17-2014, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmoney411

The difference between Ariza's 3 point shooting and Chandler's shooting last year was 3% which isn't a small difference when it comes to 3 point shooting. Both players were getting similar shots last year. Ariza is going to get those same corner looks because Harden is every bit as good as John Wall when it comes to getting to the hoop and creating good looks for other players. Even if Ariza loses that 3% the Rockets are still getting Chandler level production out of him.

And I'm saying that Ariza will stay the same or close not get better. His contract is based off him being a similar player to what he was last year while Chandler's contract is based on him becoming a better player. Two completely different things.

And beause the Rockets rely on Bev and Harden so much for ball handling I don't think spacing will be an issue without Ariza if he is the equivalent of Chandler shooting wise. They are still going to have to pack the paint to account for Harden's penetration and Howard's low post scoring.

Completely disagree. Have you seen Walls passing compared to Harden? Both of them are great at getting to the bucket, but Wall is a SIGNIFICANTLY better passer. The looks they got are not the same. Ariza will not get the same quality of looks he got in Washington. Not to mention the fact that he is nowhere near the backside cutter that Parsons is. Parsons is a top 5 SF at moving without the ball. That is a fact. Look at all the offense and flow that Parsons created by driving to the rim with and without the ball. Where are those points going now? Harden is just going to pick them all up? I would say the flow of your ball movement is going to be significantly reduced without Parsons.

I'm going to go ahead and sign out on this conversation. I appreciate the lively debate. I think your abit unreasonable with some of your conclusions, but your entitled to them. Wish you guys the best. GL

Underdog · 07-17-2014, 11:26 PM

gmoney411 · 07-17-2014, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Completely disagree. Have you seen Walls passing compared to Harden? Both of them are great at getting to the bucket, but Wall is a SIGNIFICANTLY better passer. The looks they got are not the same. Ariza will not get the same quality of looks he got in Washington. Not to mention the fact that he is nowhere near the backside cutter that Parsons is. Parsons is a top 5 SF at moving without the ball. That is a fact. Look at all the offense and flow that Parsons created by driving to the rim with and without the ball. Where are those points going now? Harden is just going to pick them all up? I would say the flow of your ball movement is going to be significantly reduced without Parsons.

I'm going to go ahead and sign out on this conversation. I appreciate the lively debate. I think your abit unreasonable with some of your conclusions, but your entitled to them. Wish you guys the best. GL

Howard creates good looks for the 3 point shooters too. The Magic lived off of 3 pointers based on the doubles Howard got. Harden's penetration combined with Howards post presence will give Ariza plenty of good looks. You should take a look at Parsons points off assists last year. That is how he got a large majority of his points.

I will agree that Parsons was a great at cutting to the basket but the open 3 point looks were much more dependent on Howard and Harden. Plus I think Ariza is a better 3 point shooter at this point in his career and teams will have to respect him more.

Ball movement will be down some because Chandler is a better creator and passer but my argument was always about floor spacing and it's going to be just as good or better imo with Ariza bringing better 3 point shooting. And you are actually expanding upon what I said would happen with our offense. I said it would be fine but I didn't say it would be better or as good. We obviously lose some playmaking ability with the switch to Ariza but our offense is about Howard and Harden and Ariza's 3 point shooting will fit right in.

But I'll join you and say that is a wrap. Enjoyed the debate.

dude1394 · 07-18-2014, 12:33 AM

I'd surely rather have chandler than ariza. Period. The contract was the cost of morey not matching. Let's go at it another way, what number would morey not match?

14,13,12... It's a pretty circular argument it seems to me. The Mavs wanted him and that was the cost of getting a restricted free agent. The trade kickers don't bother the Mavs at all because they are targeting dirks contract end as when the contract gets redone or moved.

yahyes · 07-18-2014, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

What's a good nickname you think he'd like?

Chandler P
CP
Pretty boi P
Chan Par
The Craftsman

Melonhead · 07-18-2014, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Just watched this 19 minute long Parsons video that went up tonight. Yeah keep convincing yourself that Ariza is an upgrade. Maybe he is considering his defense. I'm sure you guys will do well.. but yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVA5ydQS4_E

BGMaverick9 · 07-18-2014, 01:14 AM

One of his nicknames is Chandsome.

yahyes · 07-18-2014, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

One of his nicknames is Chandsome.

I hope he's called the pretty boy killa. Another nickname.

Underdog · 07-18-2014, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

What's a good nickname you think he'd like?

Chandler P
CP
Pretty boi P
Chan Par
The Craftsman

Morey's Blunder

dude1394 · 07-18-2014, 02:00 AM

So I was watching youtube and the question came up should houston trade parsons for rajon rondo. I've seen parsons play but I've only really seen rondo miss jumpers and what looks like ball hogging to me.

How good is rondo, that third " superstar"?? Just curious.

tap2390 · 07-18-2014, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

So I was watching youtube and the question came up should houston trade parsons for rajon rondo. I've seen parsons play but I've only really seen rondo miss jumpers and what looks like ball hogging to me.

How good is rondo, that third " superstar"?? Just curious.

IMO he's the best defensive point in the league when healthy. On offense he ball-hogs only because the team around him (now) isn't very good. His only weakness is his long-range jumper. He's quick, crafty inside, and a strong finisher. People are going to think I'm crazy but on a team like the Mavs I think he's a better fit than Steph Curry or Chris Paul.

LSMF · 07-18-2014, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Just watched this 19 minute long Parsons video that went up tonight. Yeah keep convincing yourself that Ariza is an upgrade. Maybe he is considering his defense. I'm sure you guys will do well.. but yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVA5ydQS4_E

Chandler Parsons is one cold Motherf*cker...Seriously, this kid has ice in his veins.

hayth.james.g · 07-18-2014, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

So I was watching youtube and the question came up should houston trade parsons for rajon rondo. I've seen parsons play but I've only really seen rondo miss jumpers and what looks like ball hogging to me.

How good is rondo, that third " superstar"?? Just curious.

My opinion is similar with the one above. I think hes a phenomenal defensive point guard with exceptional passing. His scoring/shot is pretty lackluster. On a good team with a plethora of scoring options hes probably one of the best if not the best point guard for the job. It doesn't hurt that he also has made a name for himself in the playoffs. People can write this off all they want, but in the playoffs hes the guy I want.

The main issue with Rondo to me isn't necessarily his lack of shooting. It's his questionable attitude. The big 3 in Boston really struggled at times to keep him in check.

I like him a lot. I think the idea of him going to the Rockets is scary (as rumored to be a possibly). He's the perfect guy for the job. Between Rondo, Ariza, and Howard they would have the best defensive unit in basketball. That's saying something considering they have Harden on their team. He would put up 12/10/6 every night all while locking down the best PG's in the league.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-18-2014, 08:51 AM

MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
41.7 7.7-17.5 .438 2.2-6.0 .361 1.8-2.5 .733 6.8 2.3 0.3 0.7 3.2 0.8 19.3

MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
35.6 7.4-18.1 .409 1.7-4.9 .353 3.9-4.4 .871 2.4 2.9 0.1 1.3 2.7 2.1 20.4

Thought this was interesting. These are last season's playoff stats. One player is Chandler Parsons, and other is Monta Ellis. They are pretty similar except one rebounds and shot the ball better.

hayth.james.g · 07-18-2014, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
41.7 7.7-17.5 .438 2.2-6.0 .361 1.8-2.5 .733 6.8 2.3 0.3 0.7 3.2 0.8 19.3

MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
35.6 7.4-18.1 .409 1.7-4.9 .353 3.9-4.4 .871 2.4 2.9 0.1 1.3 2.7 2.1 20.4

Thought this was interesting. These are last season's playoff stats. One player is Chandler Parsons, and other is Monta Ellis. They are pretty similar except one rebounds and shot the ball better.

One thing to take into consideration is that San Antonio was 6th in the league in points allowed per game in the regular season. Portland was 22nd.

45-South · 07-18-2014, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Thanks for the defensive clip. It seemed like parsons was the starter that was used to sort of anchor the second unit. Lot of time out there with asik/Lin and no harden/Dwight.

Was that the case, if so was he the go to guy on that unit or not?

Hard to give you a definitive answer to that Dude. Harden is the go to guy and he and Parsons both ranked in the top 7 in minutes so they both were on the court a lot, and Lin was supposed to be the spark plug off the bench so his job was to score when he came in. But I can tell you that the offense was stagnant whenever Parsons was off the court regardless of who else was in the game.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-18-2014, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

One thing to take into consideration is that San Antonio was 6th in the league in points allowed per game in the regular season. Portland was 22nd.

Fair enough, but the playoffs two seasons ago Parsons averaged nearly identical numbers against OKC on 45% shooting and 40% from three. OKC during the 2012-2013 season was second in opp fg%, 9th in points allowed.

45-South · 07-18-2014, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

One thing to take into consideration is that San Antonio was 6th in the league in points allowed per game in the regular season. Portland was 22nd.

Well, one thing to remember is San Antonio really doesn't have a defender for Monta but Portland has a very good defender at the small forward spot. And San Antonio has a very good defender at the small forward spot as well and Chandler Bang only had one stinker game against them during the regular season.

LSMF · 07-18-2014, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
41.7 7.7-17.5 .438 2.2-6.0 .361 1.8-2.5 .733 6.8 2.3 0.3 0.7 3.2 0.8 19.3

MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
35.6 7.4-18.1 .409 1.7-4.9 .353 3.9-4.4 .871 2.4 2.9 0.1 1.3 2.7 2.1 20.4

Thought this was interesting. These are last season's playoff stats. One player is Chandler Parsons, and other is Monta Ellis. They are pretty similar except one rebounds and shot the ball better.

I'm assuming the second line is Monta. Ellis and Parsons are going to take turns abusing the D next season. Hopefully both of them can stay healthy. What I love is that they both can pass and make plays. That will create a lot of scenarios in which they find each other cutting to the basket or open at the 3pt line. I just hope Monta has been working hard on that corner 3pt shot of his. When he hits 3's he's pretty much unguardable.

gmoney411 · 07-18-2014, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

So I was watching youtube and the question came up should houston trade parsons for rajon rondo. I've seen parsons play but I've only really seen rondo miss jumpers and what looks like ball hogging to me.

How good is rondo, that third " superstar"?? Just curious.

Trading for Rondo would be a huge gamble for the Rockets. He is basically the complete opposite of what they are looking for in their current offense and is the complete opposite of the type of personality that is currently in their locker room.

The Rockets don't really run an offense and that is what Rondo does best. If they got Rondo they couldn't stick with the same free flow offensive scheme. Rondo would have to take the ball out of Harden's hands and Harden would have to become more of an off the ball player. It might actually be better for the team because they lack structure.

The biggest gamble about getting Rondo is his attitude. The Rockets have two stars in Howard and Harden that aren't the most serious players and Rondo has been known to be a bit of an asshole that clashes with almost everyone. He might blow up the team chemistry if they got him.

Underdog · 07-18-2014, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmoney411

Trading for Rondo would be a huge gamble for the Rockets. He is basically the complete opposite of what they are looking for in their current offense and is the complete opposite of the type of personality that is currently in their locker room.

The Rockets don't really run an offense and that is what Rondo does best. If they got Rondo they couldn't stick with the same free flow offensive scheme. Rondo would have to take the ball out of Harden's hands and Harden would have to become more of an off the ball player. It might actually be better for the team because they lack structure.

The biggest gamble about getting Rondo is his attitude. The Rockets have two stars in Howard and Harden that aren't the most serious players and Rondo has been known to be a bit of an asshole that clashes with almost everyone. He might blow up the team chemistry if they got him.

What do the Rockets have to do with anything? We're talking about Rondo on the Mavs... You should focus on what kind of draft picks your team can get when they finish 9th in the West this season

hayth.james.g · 07-18-2014, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

What do the Rockets have to do with anything? We're talking about Rondo on the Mavs... You should focus on what kind of draft picks your team can get when they finish 9th in the West this season.

Uh nobody was talking about Rondo on the Mavs? Did I miss the sarcasm in the first sentence?

gmoney411 · 07-18-2014, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

What do the Rockets have to do with anything? We're talking about Rondo on the Mavs... You should focus on what kind of draft picks your team can get when they finish 9th in the West this season

The guy read about Houston getting Rondo for Parsons on a youtube video and then commented on whether or not Rondo could be the "third superstar." Since that is an infamous Morey phrase right now I thought he was asking about Rondo's game in relation to the Rockets. But maybe he was just asking about Rondo in general.

dude1394 · 07-18-2014, 10:19 AM

Well to be honest I don't care about the rockettes and rondo, just relaying where I heard it. . I was more curious about rondo in general and parsons. As in, is rondo that much better of a player than parsons. The media types were wetting their panties over rondo and I've never thought that much of him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmoney411

Trading for Rondo would be a huge gamble for the Rockets. He is basically the complete opposite of what they are looking for in their current offense and is the complete opposite of the type of personality that is currently in their locker room.

The Rockets don't really run an offense and that is what Rondo does best. If they got Rondo they couldn't stick with the same free flow offensive scheme. Rondo would have to take the ball out of Harden's hands and Harden would have to become more of an off the ball player. It might actually be better for the team because they lack structure.

The biggest gamble about getting Rondo is his attitude. The Rockets have two stars in Howard and Harden that aren't the most serious players and Rondo has been known to be a bit of an asshole that clashes with almost everyone. He might blow up the team chemistry if they got him.

Underdog · 07-18-2014, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Uh nobody was talking about Rondo on the Mavs? Did I miss the sarcasm in the first sentence?

OMG, you're right. I'm so sorry, I had trouble reading my phone through the projectile vomit caused by reading yet another post about the Rockets in our "hooray we got Parsons" thread... Thought I was on Clutchfans and lost my breakfast - I'm accustomed to reading about the Dallas Mavericks on a Dallas Mavericks forum.

gmoney411 · 07-18-2014, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

OMG, you're right. I'm so sorry, I had trouble reading my phone through the projectile vomit caused by reading yet another post about the Rockets in our "hooray we got Parsons" thread... Thought I was on Clutchfans and lost my breakfast - I'm accustomed to reading about the Dallas Mavericks on a Dallas Mavericks forum.

I hope your phone is ok.

jthig32 · 07-18-2014, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmoney411

I hope your phone is ok.

Ok, this was funny.

sefant77 · 07-18-2014, 12:05 PM

Rockets gonna have next season a serious spacing issue if Arizas shooting the last two seasons were a fluke and he falls back to his career 35%ish. They have no stretch-4, Ariza streaky and Beverley is pretty good from downtown. Daniels is Hardens backup. So their spacing for Harden is pretty much Ariza and Beverley. They have to pray for Arizas shooting...

PS: So now i have to look at Morey ugly ass face all the time in this thread? Seriously?

sefant77 · 07-18-2014, 12:07 PM

-

sefant77 · 07-18-2014, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmoney411

The Houston offense will be just fine. Chandler was a decent/good but not great creator and rarely ran the offense. Bev or Harden took care of that responsibility a majority of the time. Chandler's ballhandling and playmaking skills are definitely better than Ariza's but we actually have better floor spacing now because Ariza is a better 3 point shooter than Chandler. Our biggest offensive concern will be off the bench scoring. They need Johnson or Canaan to provide some sort of scoring punch or they will have to make a move.

Epic roflcopter. You do realize that the Rockets offense was a giant pile of iso trash last season? So how it will be just fine with replacing Parsons with Ariza?

Also, have fun believing Ariza is a better 3p shooter and floor spacer. Guy is streaky as hell and no one should trust his last two season. Fun fact in the Pacers series: After going 6-6 in game 1, he went 6-22 from downtown in the rest of the series. Elite shooter, huh?

alby · 07-18-2014, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

OMG, you're right. I'm so sorry, I had trouble reading my phone through the projectile vomit caused by reading yet another post about the Rockets in our "hooray we got Parsons" thread... Thought I was on Clutchfans and lost my breakfast - I'm accustomed to reading about the Dallas Mavericks on a Dallas Mavericks forum.

Sad. I love breakfast food.

grndmstr_c · 07-18-2014, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Rockets gonna have next season a serious spacing issue if Arizas shooting the last two seasons were a fluke and he falls back to his career 35%ish. They have no stretch-4, Ariza streaky and Beverley is pretty good from downtown. Daniels is Hardens backup. So their spacing for Harden is pretty much Ariza and Beverley. They have to pray for Arizas shooting...

I think he'll continue to shoot well. Maybe not 40% well (regression to the mean), but his sample size was large enough the last two seasons that I think it's a safe bet he'll be a credible catch-and-shoot threat. He's not a bad guy to have starting at SF by any means. He's just likely going to be a step down from what Parsons was last year overall, and when you add that to the loss of playmaking (Parsons + Lin) and depth, it's likely to cost the Rockets some wins and some spots in the standings by the time the end of the season rolls around.

jamaljasonandjimmy · 07-18-2014, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmoney411

I hope your phone is ok.

hey look its beavis on your avatar

gmoney411 · 07-18-2014, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Epic roflcopter. You do realize that the Rockets offense was a giant pile of iso trash last season? So how it will be just fine with replacing Parsons with Ariza?

Also, have fun believing Ariza is a better 3p shooter and floor spacer. Guy is streaky as hell and no one should trust his last two season. Fun fact in the Pacers series: After going 6-6 in game 1, he went 6-22 from downtown in the rest of the series. Elite shooter, huh?

The rockets had the second highest scoring offense in the league last year while having the 5th best fg%. It is an iso mess sometimes but it is very effective during the regular season.

I'm not sure why people shouldn't believe in Ariza's shooting when the stats show that it has gradually improved over the last 3 seasons. If he can get close to 40% this year the floor spacing won't be an issue for the rockets. But if he falls off greatly yes the rockets offense will be in trouble.

gmoney411 · 07-18-2014, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaljasonandjimmy

hey look its beavis on your avatar

You know I'm not actually sure how that got there. I'm guessing one of your mods did it. I never made it Morey to begin with.

gmoney411 · 07-18-2014, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I think he'll continue to shoot well. Maybe not 40% well (regression to the mean), but his sample size was large enough the last two seasons that I think it's a safe bet he'll be a credible catch-and-shoot threat. He's not a bad guy to have starting at SF by any means. He's just likely going to be a step down from what Parsons was last year overall, and when you add that to the loss of playmaking (Parsons + Lin) and depth, it's likely to cost the Rockets some wins and some spots in the standings by the time the end of the season rolls around.

Ariza's defense will likely be worth a few games in the standings too.

grndmstr_c · 07-18-2014, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmoney411

Ariza's defense will likely be worth a few games in the standings too.

Defense is part of what I was talking about when I said "overall" in comparing Ariza and Parsons.