PGT: It's Gonna Be A Helluva Season - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirkadirkastan · 10-28-2014, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qdusvd82ip...42252.jpg?dl=0

Ducan was standing waiting for him and Devin was wide open.

The only way you can justify that pass is the clock running out. You're supposed to pass the ball once the double is actually drawn, not just because they're "waiting".

I'm also aware of the strategy of not calling the timeout so the defense can't set, but that offense was more unprepared than the defense.

EricaLubarsky · 10-28-2014, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qdusvd82ip...42252.jpg?dl=0

Ducan was standing waiting for him and Devin was wide open.

Doesn't look doubled to me. Admittedly it would be been bad had Dirk driven, but Dirk does know how to shoot jumpers and Harris is awful in the corner.

vinylstar · 10-28-2014, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatLA

Just checked Parsons' 3 pointer percentage. about 37% for the last two seasons. Higher than I expected. His shooting looks odd and unstable. Also, his feet land a big step forward, every time I watch, I'm worried he might land on the defender's foot and get injured.

I used to think the same thing about JHO. Parsons leans back and slightly jumps forward. It's a really weird shooting motion especially since he's so tall. When he's wide open I wish he would just go straight up.

sefant77 · 10-28-2014, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Doesn't look doubled to me. Admittedly it would be been bad had Dirk driven, but Dirk does know how to shoot jumpers and Harris is awful in the corner.

I take any Dirk one leggie over a smaller Defender like Green than a corner three from Harris...

amuseddaysleeper · 10-29-2014, 12:03 AM

Reigning champs with no Kawhi/Splitter/Patty Mills.

Mavs should finish as the 5th seed.

grndmstr_c · 10-29-2014, 12:09 AM

The loss is disappointing, but not discouraging. Ellis looked terrific offensively. Dirk looked good once he started looking for his scoring late (I didn't mind the pass on the last possession). Tried to follow Nelson and Parsons on defense as often as possible and came away feeling pretty good about how both guys did. Was generally pleased with Nelson's offensive approach, as well.

It'll be interesting to see how Rick ends up juggling minutes for the Crowder/RJ/Aminu bench trio. Will probably take some time to figure out how to mix those three in with the starters + Harris/Wright as the 6/7th men. Speaking of Wright, his strengths and weaknesses were both on display tonight, I thought. And he probably gets exposed a little more if Splitter is in the game, so I do think Dallas caught a break there. Hopefully Smith can prove himself worthy of a spot in the rotation, at least in matchups against teams with front lines like SA's, because I think Dallas will need him.

mavs777 · 10-29-2014, 12:14 AM

One thing to keep in mind on last possession is Mavs were down 1, which meant any shot wins the game a 28 footer which I would say is about a 30% shot with the slight contest that was there was a bad shot given the situation.

grndmstr_c · 10-29-2014, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

One thing to keep in mind on last possession is Mavs were down 1, which meant any shot wins the game a 28 footer which I would say is about a 30% shot with the slight contest that was there was a bad shot given the situation.

I don't think anyone's saying the shot the Mavs got was the ideal one. Just that Dirk's decision to pass the ball to the open guy was a sound one. Give credit to SA's defense for Dallas not getting an easier look.

mac222b · 10-29-2014, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I guess I'll be in the minority, I wasn't able to watch the first 28ish minutes of game time cause of school but I thought the refs were mostly fine. On the second or third to last Mavs possession dirk was getting mugged off ball tho.

Both technicals were the result of Duncan flops. Not sure if you caught that part of the game. Also, the refs making a couple questionable calls against Tyson really shifted momentum.

Great to see TC back!

Melonhead · 10-29-2014, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatLA

Just checked Parsons' 3 pointer percentage. about 37% for the last two seasons. Higher than I expected. His shooting looks odd and unstable. Also, his feet land a big step forward, every time I watch, I'm worried he might land on the defender's foot and get injured.

I agree. His shot doesn't seem fluid with the way his lower body kicks out. I was trying to articulate it in another thread but that didn't go well.

G-Man · 10-29-2014, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amuseddaysleeper

Reigning champs with no Kawhi/Splitter/Patty Mills.

Mavs should finish as the 5th seed.

Is there a contest to see who can be first to hop off the bandwagon?

Cerberus · 10-29-2014, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I agree. His shot doesn't seem fluid with the way his lower body kicks out. I was trying to articulate it in another thread but that didn't go well.

A scouting video was made by draftexpress showing Parsons shoots the ball on his way down, rather at the apex of his jump. Also very flat shot with now arc It's on 13:50 mark in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp8BhA8khvI

Also, his game-tying three couple season ago against Lakers was THE MOST FLATTEST SHOT I have ever seen. Link here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va2f9sSvqRI

BGMaverick9 · 10-29-2014, 04:36 AM

http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2014/10/...onio-game-one/

The quote board from the game, including a GIF of the final offensive possession.

Thomas86 · 10-29-2014, 05:03 AM

I think Mavs may need to find another back up at center because when Chandler went to the bench the entire game changed for the Spurs.

Kante · 10-29-2014, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Is there a contest to see who can be first to hop off the bandwagon?

He's a spurs fan from spurstalk.com

sike · 10-29-2014, 07:17 AM

Something that C pointed out really bothered me during the game as well.

Brandon Wright is a fine help-side defender, but I'm convinced that the stronger 3s in this league could regularly score on him in the post...to say nothing of the 4 and 5s!

His defensive approach is so soft/gentle/non physical.

And by the way, if we get ANYTHING other than quick fouls from Greg Smith this season, it'll be new to me. Other than being physically stout, I have yet to see that dude do much that looks like reasonable basketball.

I'm concerned that the second Tyson sits, the entire defensive tone of this team shifts from strong to weak.

Murphy3 · 10-29-2014, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Then he draws it and passes out of it to an open guy. Can't be afraid that a double MAY come. Gotta be better than that.

You sure about that? The Mavs swung the ball around the arc for a pretty good look. You may want a do over on this post Erica.

In all honesty, Parson's should have kicked to a wide open Ellis. The play worked great. You can't ask for anything better than a wide open look which is what should have occurred. Ellis didn't have anyone near him that could have contested the shot. Perhaps Chandler wasn't aware of how much time was on the clock or perhaps he didn't see Ellis... But Ellis was wide open. That's what the Spurs do. The ball goes in and then it's kicked out and swung around the arc until you find the wide open man. The Mavs fell one pass short. There's no guarantee Ellis knocks it down. But, he could have had anything from a 3 pointer to a wide open 18 footer to win the game.

Murphy3 · 10-29-2014, 08:15 AM

Actually, just read where Parsons said he needed to make the extra pass but didn't know how much time was left.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-29-2014, 08:20 AM

Duncan was pretty slow on that double. Dirk could have waited maybe a second longer, but the pass was still a sound one. No beef with the play. Can't blame Dirk for someone else not hitting an open shot...especially when that someone is making 15 million a year to do just that.

Speaking of which, Parsons needs to hit that if he wants to be a star in this league. I'm sure it was just first game jitters, but he needs to not be unsure about what to do on offense. Like UD said, don't try to be Mr. Team all the time. Learn from Ellis and know when to be in attack and score mode.

jthig32 · 10-29-2014, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

The only way you can justify that pass is the clock running out. You're supposed to pass the ball once the double is actually drawn, not just because they're "waiting".

I'm also aware of the strategy of not calling the timeout so the defense can't set, but that offense was more unprepared than the defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Doesn't look doubled to me. Admittedly it would be been bad had Dirk driven, but Dirk does know how to shoot jumpers and Harris is awful in the corner.

I feel like you two must be looking at some other picture than the one I posted. Duncan is one step away from Dirk, already completely committed to him. Green is face-guarding Dirk, and is basically chest to chest, begging him to drive into Duncan, and not letting him rise up and shoot.

Parker has already shifted to Duncan's man, leaving Devin wide open. This is the absolutely correct time to make that pass. If he puts it on the floor, Duncan arrives and makes the pass much more difficult. And there's no reason to wait, the defense has already shifted to account for Dirk.

So he passes to Devin, Manu drops down, leaving Parsons open. It was a good look. And Monta was actually even more open if Parsons had swung it one last time.

The play worked. The Mavs forced a mismatch and got a good, clean look. They just missed it.

vinylstar · 10-29-2014, 08:45 AM

Watch Green "box out" Dirk on that final play.

Dirk was actually well positioned for that board.

MaverickGold · 10-29-2014, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Because the double team was waiting for him, and a third defender was lurking on his side of the lane as well. Definitely made the right play.

What??? He was on an island with Danny Green (6'6").
Duncan had post support, so going around Green was maybe not an option, but shooting over him would have been trivial. And the way Green was draped on him, he probably would have caught Dirk's elbow and Dirk would have been at the line for the game winner.

Everyone wondering why Dirk didn't shoot it are valid in their question. He had the shot.

My guess was that he's really trying to hand the reins to someone else - either Monta or Parsons.

http://youtu.be/AuDhkMRMdmk?t=6m53s

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-29-2014, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinylstar

Watch Green "box out" Dirk on that final play.

Dirk was actually well positioned for that board.

Just noticed that from Maverickgold's video posted. It's a good no call for the end of the game, but moving a player with your elbow like that is a foul.

Kante · 10-29-2014, 09:43 AM

Nice to read that Parsons said that he needed to make one more pass to Ellis, stuff happens. 81 more to go.

Murphy3 · 10-29-2014, 09:56 AM

Yep, Kante, all the Mavs made the right play with the exception of Parsons. He needed to swing it one more time and the Mavs had a wide open look for the game winner.

I suppose Dirk could have forced a shot, but when a play sets up a wide open jumper for Monta Ellis to win the game, you have to be more than ok with it.

sylvestian · 10-29-2014, 10:00 AM

A 3 Year 46 mil franchise hourse should create his own shot. As far as am concerned, its obvious he cant. That will bite the mavericks endeavor in late game situations against top tier teams. It will become sensitive for the mavs cosmos that in the end hes just a brilliant complementary player. Can the Mavs (espacially Parsons) all in all accept that Monta is the clean #1 Option in this Team? ...

rimrocker · 10-29-2014, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'd really like to see Parsons be a little more assertive going forward... I get that he wanted to be a team player in his first game as a Maverick, but I feel like he pushed himself out of his comfort zone as a result.

I think that had a lot to do with Dirk passing up that last shot - he wanted to give Parsons a chance to be a hero, give him some confidence. Oh, well...

This is nearly verbatim to what I was going to post.
Dirk knows he can't carry the full load anymore and that others like Ellis, Parsons and Nelson are going to have to step up offensively.

Personally I think we are more talented than the Spurs and when the rotation is figured out we will be a better team.
I would have liked to see Aminu in a bigger role because we will need his D down the stretch.

I'm way out on a limb here but I'm just as concerned about the Pelicans as I am the Spurs this season. This should be their breakout season.

dirt_dobber · 10-29-2014, 10:09 AM

I'm interested in, and disappointed in, the way we closed out the first half.

We were in the bonus with about a minute and a half and we shot and missed a Harris 3 and a Parson 3 instead of driving into the paint drawing contact and getting to the line. That frustrated me a bit. Missing on 2 possessions and a possible 6 points to close out the half.

Kante · 10-29-2014, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Yep, Kante, all the Mavs made the right play with the exception of Parsons. He needed to swing it one more time and the Mavs had a wide open look for the game winner.

I suppose Dirk could have forced a shot, but when a play sets up a wide open jumper for Monta Ellis to win the game, you have to be more than ok with it.

He also said he wasn't sure how much time was left, so like i said, can happen. I think it was 1.8 or so when he shot it, which would made it tough for Ellis to get into his rhytm.

G-Man · 10-29-2014, 10:28 AM

Against a team that returned all but one player from last year, the Mavs looked ragged at times, but that is to be expected. Missed Alley-oops are just one example of the kind of problem that will get better in time.

I know they want to let Aminu prove he can shoot, but some guys need to pass it even when they are open, rather than take a shot they hit 22% or the time. Still, I would like to see him get more minutes...RJ too.

We had a number of fine defensive possessions and I was pretty impressed at our ability cover and recover against such a good passing team. The effort on D was definitely there. But too many resulted in an open 3 pointer with 1 second left on the clock. This can and should get better.

Too many guards not named Monta took too many quick shots, hoping to score before the defense got set. They need to have a bit more faith in the ability of our offense to generate shots. We are not Orlando.

Rick has a lot of work ahead to figure out rotations and what combination of players to use at various times, and with so many players deserving of minutes, I expect that process to take a long time. But when it came time to close the game with our best five, they slugged it out and mounted a 4th quarter comeback that was pretty impressive, especially considering we did not shoot well. while SA was raining in 3's.

This quality of play would beat most teams, but the Spurts, even without Splitter and Kawhi, are not most teams. They are poised to take advantage of every mistake and we made too many. But there is much to like here. Just have to keep fighting.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-29-2014, 10:30 AM

I'm a bit surprised Aminu didn't get more minutes. Hopefully he'll get more versus the Jazz and Celtics coming up.

jthig32 · 10-29-2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm a bit surprised Aminu didn't get more minutes. Hopefully he'll get more versus the Jazz and Celtics coming up.

I thought Aminu looked extremely lost on defense for his entire five minutes.

jthig32 · 10-29-2014, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaverickGold

What??? He was on an island with Danny Green (6'6").
Duncan had post support, so going around Green was maybe not an option, but shooting over him would have been trivial. And the way Green was draped on him, he probably would have caught Dirk's elbow and Dirk would have been at the line for the game winner.

Everyone wondering why Dirk didn't shoot it are valid in their question. He had the shot.

My guess was that he's really trying to hand the reins to someone else - either Monta or Parsons.

http://youtu.be/AuDhkMRMdmk?t=6m53s

Danny Green was basically hugging him. Shooting over him would decidedly not have been trivial.

More importantly, Dirk's decision led to a good shot and could have led to a great shot. His decision worked.

MaverickGold · 10-29-2014, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Danny Green was basically hugging him. Shooting over him would decidedly not have been trivial.

More importantly, Dirk's decision led to a good shot and could have led to a great shot. His decision worked.

Watch the video again. Dirk makes space when he catches the ball, but when he turns, he has already committed to passing. He pulls the ball into the air with both hands and that time allows Danny to come chest to chest.

Danny isn't hugging him as soon as he catches the pass.

If Dirk had wanted to catch, turn and shoot, he would have had the space. We all know that Dirk's jumper requires no space between him and the defender.

I had no big issue with the pass either. Monta had been pretty hot in the second half. He was wide open. Why didn't he shoot it? It's as much on him as it is on Dirk.

I'm just now seeing that Danny Green "box out" on Dirk at the end of that play. I'm not sure that's a no call at the end of the game. It looks like he just sweeps Dirk off the court entirely without any chance to rebound.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-29-2014, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaverickGold

Watch the video again. Dirk makes space when he catches the ball, but when he turns, he has already committed to passing. He pulls the ball into the air with both hands and that time allows Danny to come chest to chest.

Danny isn't hugging him as soon as he catches the pass.

If Dirk had wanted to catch, turn and shoot, he would have had the space. We all know that Dirk's jumper requires no space between him and the defender.

I had no big issue with the pass either. Monta had been pretty hot in the second half. He was wide open. Why didn't he shoot it? It's as much on him as it is on Dirk.

I'm just now seeing that Danny Green "box out" on Dirk at the end of that play. I'm not sure that's a no call at the end of the game. It looks like he just sweeps Dirk off the court entirely without any chance to rebound.

I can kinda see what you're saying. If Dirk had spun to the outside, then he could have gotten a decent look. However, that's still pretty woulda, coulda, shoulda. And a decent look isn't definitely better than an open look for another teammate.

Murphy3 · 10-29-2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaverickGold

Watch the video again. Dirk makes space when he catches the ball, but when he turns, he has already committed to passing. He pulls the ball into the air with both hands and that time allows Danny to come chest to chest.

Danny isn't hugging him as soon as he catches the pass.

If Dirk had wanted to catch, turn and shoot, he would have had the space. We all know that Dirk's jumper requires no space between him and the defender.

I had no big issue with the pass either. Monta had been pretty hot in the second half. He was wide open. Why didn't he shoot it? It's as much on him as it is on Dirk.

I'm just now seeing that Danny Green "box out" on Dirk at the end of that play. I'm not sure that's a no call at the end of the game. It looks like he just sweeps Dirk off the court entirely without any chance to rebound.

It's not on Dirk or Monta at all. Parsons should have made the extra pass to a wide open Ellis for the final look instead of taking the shot the he took.

Murphy3 · 10-29-2014, 02:45 PM

The "trying to hand the reins" comment is silly. Dirk was making what he thought was the correct play. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work out. That's why you assemble a talented offensive team.. So that your Big German can create mismatches that lead to open looks..and so that the other talent can create easier opportunities for Dirk. On the final possession, the Mavs via Dirk created an open look. They just fell one pass short of having that open look for the game winner. It isn't about the final shot being representative of Dirk handing over the reins. It's about trying to win a ballgame by creating an open look. If Dirk would have felt comfortable that he could have gotten off a really good look before Duncan made it over, he would have taken the shot. But he obviously felt that with the double coming that he would create a better look for someone else.

grndmstr_c · 10-29-2014, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

The "trying to hand the reins" comment is silly. Dirk was making what he thought was the correct play. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work out. That's why you assemble a talented offensive team.. So that your Big German can create mismatches that lead to open looks..and so that the other talent can create easier opportunities for Dirk. On the final possession, the Mavs via Dirk created an open look. They just fell one pass short of having that open look for the game winner. It isn't about the final shot being representative of Dirk handing over the reins. It's about trying to win a ballgame by creating an open look. If Dirk would have felt comfortable that he could have gotten off a really good look before Duncan made it over, he would have taken the shot. But he obviously felt that with the double coming that he would create a better look for someone else.

Well said.

tap2390 · 10-29-2014, 04:53 PM

I'm sure I have nothing to add which hasn't been said before but just some thoughts:

1) Perimeter defense is still a problem for us. We contested shots decently at times but our guards just don't have the size to be defensive stoppers.... going back to our championship run we played AMAZING defense with our starters, and then relied on our bench to score... it worked on offense because Stevenson and Kidd could spread the floor, but more importantly we started 4 above-average defenders (Kidd, Stevenson, Marion, Chandler).... quite frankly I don't believe we have the personnel to make a deep postseason run, we're missing some defense.

2) This goes along with (1), but remember how fricking annoying Cory Joseph was pressing full court? We need a defender off the bench like that (Barea?).

3) The refs were horrible. Plain & simple. Bad calls and missed calls both ways but definitely more favoring the Spurs.

4) If the NBA is serious about punishing flopping both Duncan and Ginobli should be fined for that game. They were RIDICULOUS last night. Very frustrating for non-Spurs fans.

5) I don't care how old Dirk is. We MUST start the game through Dirk. He is still our best offensive player. He is still the one that teams gameplan for. We must get him going and then have Monta and Chandler feed off him. If Dirk's only going to shoot 11 times I'd rather 4-6 of those be in the 1st quarter.

6) Tyson Chandler is going to mean a LOT to this team. He was FANTASTIC last night rotating on defense, playing post D cleanly, and getting tip rebounds on offense. I also noticed he was the one standing and cheering the most. Same 'ol Tyson. If he plays like that all year and we can do better guarding the perimeter we're gonna be tough.

7) Parsons looked slow, even on that nice dunk to start the game. I know he's more a "smooth" guy but he really needs to work on his first step. He couldn't get past Diaw last night. FREAKING DIAW, the guy who looks like someone pulled from the stands in midst of chugging a beer. I know I know it was one game, but I totally understand Carlisle's criticism after that.

MaverickGold · 10-29-2014, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

The "trying to hand the reins" comment is silly. Dirk was making what he thought was the correct play. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work out. That's why you assemble a talented offensive team.. So that your Big German can create mismatches that lead to open looks..and so that the other talent can create easier opportunities for Dirk. On the final possession, the Mavs via Dirk created an open look. They just fell one pass short of having that open look for the game winner. It isn't about the final shot being representative of Dirk handing over the reins. It's about trying to win a ballgame by creating an open look. If Dirk would have felt comfortable that he could have gotten off a really good look before Duncan made it over, he would have taken the shot. But he obviously felt that with the double coming that he would create a better look for someone else.

You make a good argument for your point. Your first sentence is neither necessary nor productive to a message board, however. It provides nothing for the rest of you statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

If Dirk would have felt comfortable that he could have gotten off a really good look before Duncan made it over, he would have taken the shot. But he obviously felt that with the double coming that he would create a better look for someone else.

I don't believe this to be true. If you watch that possession closely, it looks to me that Dirk never had one iota of a thought whether to shoot or pass. He catches that ball with full intention of passing, regardless of the defense.

He catches the ball looking to his right while Duncan is approaching from the left. He didn't see Duncan approaching and then abort the idea of a shot and go for the pass. He didn't see Duncan approaching, period.

Now it's reasonable for him to believe that he will be double teamed as soon as he touches it. Statistics say over his interminable career that the double-team is going to come 99.999% of the time, so he knew that just catching the ball was going to draw the double team and open someone up. He caught the ball and looked for the pass. He didn't catch and decide whether to shoot or pass.

Your scenario of how an offense runs intelligently is spot-on for regular play. Yes, the smart move is the extra pass to the wide open player. However, this is crunch time. This is the game on the line. This is when the superstar is expected to be selfish and create their own shot. This is their moment.

Prime Dirk doesn't make that pass. The coach doesn't expect him to make that pass either. The expectation would have been, if you can get the ball to Dirk, Dirk has to take a shot regardless of what the defense reads. That's his moment, his shot. This isn't prime Dirk.

The truth is, we don't know why Dirk didn't consider a shot. My guess is that he's no longer prime Dirk. It's no longer Dirk and the gang. He's a support player now. This is to be either Monta's or Chandler's team (or both). One or both of them need to get used to being in that role.

Last year (early), it was explicitly stated by Carlisle that he was drawing up plays for Monta to have that last shot.

It's my opinion that the reins are being passed. It was the first game of the year. I don't think Dirk catches the ball with every intention to pass if this were the playoffs. You don't try to pass the reins in the playoffs. You work guys into the role starting at the beginning of the year.

Stating that my opinion is silly and then arguing that there was a decision to not shoot due to a double team, one that Dirk couldn't have seen until he was already in the act of passing, neither invalidates my opinion or changes it.