Official: Rondo to Dallas!!

[Kante]

So, there is no proof other than "sources" that there may happened something?

Because if no one from the media saw it (and there are a few people), i'm not sure if i am buying it.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Kante

So, there is no proof other than "sources" that there may happened something?

Because if no one from the media saw it (and there are a few people), i'm not sure if i am buying it.

We share similar circles in regards to sources. I'm more than okay with "buying"

[EricaLubarsky]

Pretty silly to doubt all of the sources. Where there is smoke, there's at least a birthday candle. May be exaggerated but it was at least a heated yelling match.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

No one in the media saw an argument between Carlisle and Rondo but it has been reported based off of sources that would certainly know that it happened.

What I reported is that the media was around Rondo's locker, which isn't out of the ordinary. He got dressed and walked away real quick. That can be customary, too, because maybe he needs to grab something and will be right back. But he clearly saw a group of people waiting. He walked through them to get out of the area. He saw Tubby and started chatting with him. Tubby was about 5-7 feet away from the crowd. He opted to walk the opposite way of the media and just leave them there. Some of us saw him do that and tried to catch up with him.
http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2015/02/...ion-breakdown/

Sounds like a non-story to me.

I mean, only time will tell. If the Mavs implode around Rondo, then this will be the event that everyone points back to as the turning point... But if he gets his game together and helps the Mavs go on a deep run, then this will be known as the knee-jerkiest moment of the season... I guess we'll see.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sounds like a non-story to me.

I mean, only time will tell. If the Mavs implode around Rondo, then this will be the event that everyone points back to as the turning point... But if he gets his game together and helps the Mavs go on a deep run, then this will be known as the knee-jerkiest moment of the season... I guess we'll see.

Or it could be used as a galvanizing moment, as both Tyson and Dirk have mentioned in their own way.

[yahyes]

People talk loudly just to talk loudly sometimes... For Rondo's case. He seems to be more involved than I ever saw those other guys like Walker or Odom. I'm sure we all remember that.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Or it could be used as a galvanizing moment, as both Tyson and Dirk have mentioned in their own way.

It's a team set up with perhaps a unique strong starting 5.

[Songbard]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Or it could be used as a galvanizing moment, as both Tyson and Dirk have mentioned in their own way.

I'll bet, as soon as tonight, we'll see a different, more productive, more team-oriented Rondo.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Songbard

I'll bet, as soon as tonight, we'll see a different, more productive, more team-oriented Rondo.

I tend to agree. I'm not sure he'll be more productive but I do think Rick will loosen the leash and let Rondo somewhat take over. I think Rick will come up with a game plan and then let Rondo run the show. Rick knows how important Rondo is to our team so he will become more flexible and give Rondo more freedom...or at least put Rondo in a position where he feels he has more control.

That's the only way I see this thing working going forward.

In a weird sort of way, I think Rondo's outburst was a way of letting Rick know that he is ready to take over the team. As a fan it's somewhat refreshing to see someone actually want to take over and become the team leader. Whether it will work, who knows? But I'd rather find out now before we sign him to a long term deal.

[Melonhead]

Always been a fan of Jarrett jack as PG. His type of game could fit in with rondo.

I seen George hill mentioned and I like him too.

Doubt we could get either in the offseason.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Always been a fan of Jarrett jack as PG. His type of game could fit in with rondo.

I seen George hill mentioned and I like him too.

Doubt we could get either in the offseason.

Is Jack a defender?

I see two scenarios for the Mavs' backcourt next season:

1. Rondo + Spot-Up shooter SG with some size (Kevin Martin, Reddick, Ray Allen, etc...)
2. Ellis + Big defending PG (no idea who but someone similar to Kidd)

I expect the latter to happen...Ellis/Rondo will probably never work imo.

[dirt_dobber]

Would love to see Kirk Henrich here.
He has a player option for next season and would probably come here cheap.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Is Jack a defender?

I see two scenarios for the Mavs' backcourt next season:

1. Rondo + Spot-Up shooter SG with some size (Kevin Martin, Reddick, Ray Allen, etc...)
2. Ellis + Big defending PG (no idea who but someone similar to Kidd)

I expect the latter to happen...Ellis/Rondo will probably never work imo.

Jack is a top PG defender in the league. Here are some rankings and a nice write up about it. Was ranked 10th last year

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...he-nba/page/12

Doesn't shoot the 3 well (25% this season ) but converts 2pt at 50% this season. Defends and above all else, he plays hard

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

Would love to see Kirk Henrich here.
He has a player option for next season and would probably come here cheap.

Always loved Hinrich's game. Sort of like Harris (decent at everything/bad at nothing) without the athleticism but but a little more PG/Basketball savvy.

He'd be a great backup plan if Rondo doesn't resign.

I could live with a Hinrich/Harris/Barea backcourt next season as long as we bring back the rest of our core players (Chandler, Ellis, Amare, Aminu, etc...).

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Is Jack a defender?

I see two scenarios for the Mavs' backcourt next season:

1. Rondo + Spot-Up shooter SG with some size (Kevin Martin, Reddick, Ray Allen, etc...)
2. Ellis + Big defending PG (no idea who but someone similar to Kidd)

I expect the latter to happen...Ellis/Rondo will probably never work imo.

I totally agree that the two scenarios you've listed represent improvements in synergy, but the problem is who do they get, and how do they get him?

I think we can all agree that with Dirk's advancing age, there just isn't time for the roster to take a step back in talent in order to move two steps forward at the deadline or during the summer of 2016, right? This means the Mavs are about to shift back into an over the cap approach to roster building this summer, for the first time since 2011.

They have Bird Rights for TY, Ellis and Rondo, but whether the Mavs re-sign only two of them or all three, the results are similar - the cap is gone.

They do not have Bird rights for Stoudemire, Aminu or Barea, and I'd be shocked if even one of those three is willing to come back for the minimum. My guess, after reading the opinions of a couple of cap guys who I respect, is that Stoudemire gets the full MLE and Aminu gets a raise to around BAE level. So already, they're essentially hoping that Barea will re-sign for the minimum. Good luck with that.

Sorry to be boring, but the point is that if the Mavs don't want to re-sign BOTH Ellis and Rondo, their only avenues for replacing one of them will be to A) sign someone off the street at the minimum (yuck), B) trade a package of end of the bench youngsters and worthless picks for a gamble on someone else's end of the bench guard (yuck) or C) sign-and-trade either Rondo or Ellis, along with some of the package from B, to their desired team in exchange for a player they hope will fit their needs.

Obviously, C is the best option, but that would require the cooporation of the outgoing player, his agent, his new team, etc. Pretty far-fetched, really.

I guess what I'm saying is that while I definitely don't think Rondo/Ellis/Parsons fit perfectly together, I have a hard time seeing how a new guard acquired in any of the above scenarios would be a quality player. They might be a more appropriate type of player for the needs of the team, but they're almost sure to be inferior in quality to the outgoing player, wheter it's Ellis or Rondo.

I really hope Carlisle can make all of this work, because keeping both guards definitely puts the team in a better situation going forward, asset wise. We'll see.

[sefant77]

Hinrich is done, he fell off a cliff the past years.

Jack is solid, nothing more. A solid backup. Wouldnt mind to trade Felton for him. Nets are looking to dump salary so they can sell the franchise...

Rondo/Ellis/Jack/Harris/Barea as your backcourt....still undersized but i doubt we are able to get someone like Afflalo...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

I totally agree that the two scenarios you've listed represent improvements in synergy, but the problem is who do they get, and how do they get him?

I think we can all agree that with Dirk's advancing age, there just isn't time for the roster to take a step back in talent in order to move two steps forward at the deadline or during the summer of 2016, right? This means the Mavs are about to shift back into an over the cap approach to roster building this summer, for the first time since 2011.

They have Bird Rights for TY, Ellis and Rondo, but whether the Mavs re-sign only two of them or all three, the results are similar - the cap is gone.

They do not have Bird rights for Stoudemire, Aminu or Barea, and I'd be shocked if even one of those three is willing to come back for the minimum. My guess, after reading the opinions of a couple of cap guys who I respect, is that Stoudemire gets the full MLE and Aminu gets a raise to around BAE level. So already, they're essentially hoping that Barea will re-sign for the minimum. Good luck with that.

Sorry to be boring, but the point is that if the Mavs don't want to re-sign BOTH Ellis and Rondo, their only avenues for replacing one of them will be to A) sign someone off the street at the minimum (yuck), B) trade a package of end of the bench youngsters and worthless picks for a gamble on someone else's end of the bench guard (yuck) or C) sign-and-trade either Rondo or Ellis, along with some of the package from B, to their desired team in exchange for a player they hope will fit their needs.

Obviously, C is the best option, but that would require the cooporation of the outgoing player, his agent, his new team, etc. Pretty far-fetched, really.

I guess what I'm saying is that while I definitely don't think Rondo/Ellis/Parsons fit perfectly together, I have a hard time seeing how a new guard acquired in any of the above scenarios would be a quality player. They might be a more appropriate type of player for the needs of the team, but they're almost sure to be inferior in quality to the outgoing player, wheter it's Ellis or Rondo.

I really hope Carlisle can make all of this work, because keeping both guards definitely puts the team in a better situation going forward, asset wise. We'll see.

A post full of objective truth? Ain't nobody got time for that!

Yes, one could debate the effectiveness of the Ellis/Rondo pairing, but at this point you pretty much have to stick with it because there aren't any better options that will work under our cap situation.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

Would love to see Kirk Henrich here.
He has a player option for next season and would probably come here cheap.

He'll be a backup at best next year. No thanks. The team will go back to getting old if he's the starter.

[sefant77]

Yeah and Barea wont get more than the vet minimum around the league...

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Yeah and Barea wont get more than the vet minimum around the league...

Wow, really? I'm not sure I agree with that. I hope you're right, though, because I would love to see him back on the team next season. If he's a minimum player, then I'm sure his preference would be to stay in Dallas.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Always been a fan of Jarrett jack as PG. His type of game could fit in with rondo.

I seen George hill mentioned and I like him too.

Doubt we could get either in the offseason.

George hill is pretty much the perfect guard to pair with ellis unless we can clone old kidd

[rimrocker]

I agree with those saying Rondo is our best option but I don't see him resigning here unless Rick takes the leash off the rest of this season.
That means Rondo calls the plays and probably takes the ball out of Ellis' hands. Just don't see that working.
Mavs have somewhat committed to Rondo but I have a feeling they'll have to go shopping for either a backup for Harris or a starter similar to Harris' caliber.

I'm not so sure Hinrich wouldn't be a good option as he is a decent defender and is a career 37.5% 3pt shooter. Sounds like a pretty good option to pair with Ellis to me.
The fact Harris and Barea (and maybe Felton) are pretty solid backups I think we could get by with a "PG by committee" next season.

I'd try to trade Felton for a Stevenson/Griffin/Bell/Hassell type SG and we'd be okay without Rondo next season imo.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Wow, really? I'm not sure I agree with that. I hope you're right, though, because I would love to see him back on the team next season. If he's a minimum player, then I'm sure his preference would be to stay in Dallas.

I don't see Barea leaving Dallas as long as Rick is here. I'm sure he'll take the minimum because nobody will pay him much more and it probably won't be worth it to him to leave. Unless some GM does something stupid like offer him the full MLE I don't see Barea leaving this situation.
But then I thought the same thing about Vince this past off-season and was wrong about that.

[Kante]

I have yet to see Rondo take the ball out of Ellis' hands. I've seen passes ahead to him and giving it up to him in a semi-break so he can do his "thing".

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Kante

I have yet to see Rondo take the ball out of Ellis' hands. I've seen passes ahead to him and giving it up to him in a semi-break so he can do his "thing".

Hmmm...and I wonder why Rondo is so disgruntled???

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I'm not so sure Hinrich wouldn't be a good option as he is a decent defender and is a career 37.5% 3pt shooter. Sounds like a pretty good option to pair with Ellis to me.

Hinrich's 3-point percentage is dropping like a stone: 35% last year, 32.6% this year (Rondo 31.8%) -- and he's only shooting 37% from the field this season (Rondo 41%)... His assist and rebounds are also down... Oh, and his defense isn't what it used to be either.

In other words, you'd better hope that Rondo doesn't bail on the Mavs because the alternatives are grim.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Hinrich's 3-point percentage is dropping like a stone: 35% last year, 32.6% this year (Rondo 31.1%) -- and he's only shooting 37% from the field this season (Rondo 41%)... His assist and rebounds are also down... Oh, and his defense isn't what it used to be either.

In other words, you'd better hope that Rondo doesn't bail on the Mavs because the alternatives are grim.

Completely agree but Hinrich would have a much more limited role with us so I'm not so sure those numbers wouldn't improve.

Rondo is definitely plan A because the Mavs are somewhat committed but if he bolts we are limited to MLE and that would mean no Amare and/or Aminu.
Trading Felton and scraps for a starter would be okay if possible as a plan B but if we are looking at signing someone for vet min or trading for Hinrich at the small amount he has coming next season then he might be our best option and I don't think that would be the end of the world.

But with a roster full of ball-dominate players (Ellis, Harris, Barea, Rondo, Parsons), something has to give and I just don't see Rondo sticking around unless his role on offense increases.

Rick's dilemma is trying to find a way to utilize both Rondo's and Ellis' best skills. He knows he needs both of them (Rondo's D and Ellis' O) but has to find a way to get Rondo more involved in the offense or we will lose him. I think we might have already lost his interest in playing. Just hope Rick can correct it to save our future.

[iggymcfly]

Worst free throw shooters in the NBA this year:

5. Josh Smith 45.3%
4. DeAndre Jordan 40.9%
3. Andre Drummond 39.4%
2. Ian Mahinmi 32.8%
1. Rajon Rondo 31.1%

But yeah, his problems are all the system. If we just changed the whole offense to suit him, he'd totally be a Top 10 point guard, right?

[iggymcfly]

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Rondo leads a team to a championship in the next 5 years. Just think it's a lot more likely to happen in China or Israel than in the NBA.

[iggymcfly]

I'm 29 and I've been a Mavs fan for 21 years, but I honestly can't even root for this team right now. Just the thought of Rondo even possibly signing a 5-year near-max deal with Dallas fills me with such dread that I'd rather they lose every game the rest of the season than even have it as a possibility.

[Kante]

How about 31 more posts (Mostly useless)?

[tap2390]

I wanted Rondo more than anyone but even I have to admit its been an abject failure thus far. Let's see if anything comes together when we're healthy; if not, we should probably let Rondo walk this offseason.


Edit: I really wish Dragic had forced his way out of PHX earlier =/

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

Worst free throw shooters in the NBA this year:

5. Josh Smith 45.3%
4. DeAndre Jordan 40.9%
3. Andre Drummond 39.4%
2. Ian Mahinmi 32.8%
1. Rajon Rondo 31.1%

But yeah, his problems are all the system. If we just changed the whole offense to suit him, he'd totally be a Top 10 point guard, right?

Josh Smith 68 FTA
DeAndre Jordan 285 FTA
Andre Drummond 259 FTA
Ian Mahinmi 64 FTA
Rajon Rondo 61 FTA

The smaller the sample size, the more a few misses can affect the overall percentage... Give Rondo 100 more FTAs and what would his percentage look like? And yeah, getting to the charity stripe is on him, but his percentage is obviously being skewed by his lack of attempts (same could be said for Smith and Mahinmi).

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I wanted Rondo more than anyone but even I have to admit its been an abject failure thus far. Let's see if anything comes together when we're healthy; if not, we should probably let Rondo walk this offseason

Just one question - who replaces Rondo? Remember, we have zero cap space to work with, and can only keep Rondo because we have his Bird Rights. That means you're replacing him with a vet minimum player... I'd like to see a list of vet minimum guys that you think will perform better than Rondo.

[jthig32]

Rondo has not been an abject failure. February was a rough month, but the Mavs have been hit by the injury bug pretty hard. I just retweeted a someone noting that the five starters were together for exactly two games in February.

It's kind of funny, a few weeks after we got Rondo I was debating people on whether Rondo was a top PG in the NBA. Now people are ready to get rid of him.

I still think the Mavs are in line for a good run heading to the playoffs and will be a competitive playoff team. The most frustrating thing to me is that I think a first round loss means Rondo is gone, and to me this trade was always about next year anyway. And I'm not sure we'll get to see next year with Rondo.

[sefant77]

Reading MacMahons Twitter, its clearly for me that he has an Anti-Rondo agenda...

Devin Harris: 14 points, 5-6 FG, 5 assists, +15 Rajon Rondo: 6 points, 3-7 FG, 5 assists, -21 Who's gonna get the crunch-time burn?

Just one example. Pointing out the +/- when Rondo played Williams/the S5 and Devin the 2nd unit and the reason for the bad +/- was that the three guard lineup was a fail.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Reading MacMahons Twitter, its clearly for me that he has an Anti-Rondo agenda...



Just one example. Pointing out the +/- when Rondo played Williams/the S5 and Devin the 2nd unit and the reason for the bad +/- was that the three guard lineup was a fail.

Devin clearly had the better game, but it's pointless for people to point fingers in every loss. Losing will always draw the ire of someone. You won't win many games with both Rondo and Ellis playing poorly while two starters are out with injury.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I still think the Mavs are in line for a good run heading to the playoffs and will be a competitive playoff team. The most frustrating thing to me is that I think a first round loss means Rondo is gone, and to me this trade was always about next year anyway. And I'm not sure we'll get to see next year with Rondo.

I didn't think this way until recently, but now I do. Unfortunately.

[iggymcfly]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Just one question - who replaces Rondo? Remember, we have zero cap space to work with, and can only keep Rondo because we have his Bird Rights. That means you're replacing him with a vet minimum player... I'd like to see a list of vet minimum guys that you think will perform better than Rondo.

Right now the team's ceiling is 1st-round playoff exit. If you extend Rondo 5 years, you're practically guaranteeing that's going to continue to be the team's ceiling for 5 years. He just limits what the offense can do so much. You can't be one of the worst shooters in the league and start at PG in 2015's NBA when you're coming up on 30 and your athleticism's starting to fade too. I mean you can, but it's gonna take a miracle of a team construction around you to be competitive. You have to have basically 4 great defenders around you that can shoot, and that's never going to be Dallas.

I'm sure we can find a player for the veteran minimum who will fill the backup PG minutes adequately behind Devin Harris and JJ Barea. That should be enough to at least give the team a chance to win until the cap goes up in 2016. If the Rondo trade doomed us to being non-competitive until 2016, that's not the worst thing in the world. A player like Dirk's gonna decline slower than almost anyone due to his height and shooting ability. That contract will still look like one of the best deals in basketball 3 years from now, especially with the contract inflation that's coming up.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

Right now the team's ceiling is 1st-round playoff exit.

That's their "ceiling," huh? So presumably you'd be willing to bet any amount of money available to you that they won't get out of the first round this year?

Let's talk.