Official: Rondo to Dallas!! - Page 31 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Kante · 03-03-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

Funny, for a minute there I thought you were describing Rondo.

Funny, for a minute i thought you were funny.

sefant77 · 03-03-2015, 04:38 PM

Funny, even the biggest hater wouldnt put Beverly over Rondo...

Melonhead · 03-03-2015, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Funny, even the biggest hater wouldnt put Beverly over Rondo...

You got that right. I despise that dude

MFFL · 03-03-2015, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

We should really give this more time before calling it, imo, which is the real reason I brought up Kidd. The team looked TERRIBLE for quite a while after that trade, including the first playoff series, if I remember correctly.

Spot on.

I was against the Kidd deal and I was proven wrong. But it took a training camp to get that offense back in sync and I don't know if Rondo is interested in returning to this team.

I do like how coach is using Rondo in the post to carve up defenses. I think we will use that an increasing amount as the playoffs approach

Thebo · 03-03-2015, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Funny, even the biggest hater wouldnt put Beverly over Rondo...

And who's that?

G-Man · 03-03-2015, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

The Harris/Barea as point guards should be fine. It would be nice to get a backup shooting guard for Ellis so we don't have a small backcourt.

The Mavs can not win if they have to play JJB. He can be a great option, but he is so tiny, that teams always have success posting him up. When that happens, you have to bench him and put someone else in. If they don't post him up, he can be great. So he's effective against teams that don't have the personnel to go at him, or a coach smart enough to employ that strategy. In 2011, neither Miami nor LA had the kind of guards that could capitilize on JJB's weaknesses, nor could they keep up with his foot speed. Carlisle knows when and where to use him. But if he is your 1st or 2nd guard off the bench every night, and has to play 20-25 minutes every night, we are asking for trouble.

Thebo · 03-04-2015, 03:45 AM

I actually have to add that when I'm talking about Rondo, I'm talking about player who is willing and able to develop an outside shot. If he starts shooting threes with success, I have no problem offering him near max, if all starting five can be brought back.

If we are talking about Rondo that Mavs have now, I would have real problems offering him over 12 per year. If my options are to either have only Rondo or Beverley plus Aminu - then right now I'm leaning towards the latter.

Currently Rondo is playing like it's playoffs again but he should switch over to his regular season form within 10 games like he did once he first joined Dallas. I still think debating about Rondo's future should be done after the playoffs - if they exit before the finals, there will be plenty of time and if they reach the finals then there isn't anything to debate at all.

Whichever Rondo you have, this team needs continuity either way before you can assess if something is working or not.

sefant77 · 03-04-2015, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

The Mavs can not win if they have to play JJB. He can be a great option, but he is so tiny, that teams always have success posting him up. When that happens, you have to bench him and put someone else in. If they don't post him up, he can be great. So he's effective against teams that don't have the personnel to go at him, or a coach smart enough to employ that strategy. In 2011, neither Miami nor LA had the kind of guards that could capitilize on JJB's weaknesses, nor could they keep up with his foot speed. Carlisle knows when and where to use him. But if he is your 1st or 2nd guard off the bench every night, and has to play 20-25 minutes every night, we are asking for trouble.

this is a great post and shows the issue with Barea. Barea is really limited (mostly at D) and can really really hurt your team if you have to DEPEND on him.

He is great as an OPTION if the matchups are good. But you cant depend on him as starter or main backup. You always need to have the option to hide him on the bench and still win games or a playoff series with alternative player.

EricaLubarsky · 03-04-2015, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

I actually have to add that when I'm talking about Rondo, I'm talking about player who is willing and able to develop an outside shot. If he starts shooting threes with success

He is shooting 40.0% from three while here. small sample size and who knows if it will continue, but he's certainly been better than people think.

Also, he isn't getting the max unless it's a desperate team like the Lakers. Rondo will not get max money from any legitimate contender-- more like 10-13

LonghornDub · 03-04-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

The Harris/Barea as point guards should be fine.

There is nothing "fine" about a 2015 Western Conference team having Devin Harris and JJ Barea as its two point guards.

*edit* To be clear, I like both players, and Devin in particular has impressed all season. But that is nowhere near a viable solution.

EricaLubarsky · 03-04-2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

There is nothing "fine" about a 2015 Western Conference team having Devin Harris and JJ Barea as its two point guards.

*edit* To be clear, I like both players, and Devin in particular has impressed all season. But that is nowhere near a viable solution.

Absolutely. That's like the Spurs team winning a game without Duncan, Parker, and Leonard and saying that Baynes/Anderson/Mills is a legitimate starting lineup for a season. That lineup can win a few games, but it's nowhere near a team that you'd want to go to war with all season.

Thebo · 03-04-2015, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

He is shooting 40.0% from three while here. small sample size and who knows if it will continue, but he's certainly been better than people think.

Small sample size for what? I didn't realize that people were guarding him so tight that he doesn't even have room to shoot threes.

Lets not start pretending like joining Dallas turned him into 3PT threat with his 40% average. He's made 14 shots from outside, 5 of which were from that crazy TD Garden's game.

Twenty4sevenn · 03-04-2015, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

Small sample size for what? I didn't realize that people were guarding him so tight that he doesn't even have room to shoot threes.

Lets not start pretending like joining Dallas turned him into 3PT threat with his 40% average. He's made 14 shots from outside, 5 of which were from that crazy TD Garden's game.

Did they move the line up for that game? Was the hoop bigger or something?

Why is making 5 threes in one game part of your argument about him not being able to shoot?

Kante · 03-04-2015, 03:33 PM

It's not, it's the art of hating.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-04-2015, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

Small sample size for what? I didn't realize that people were guarding him so tight that he doesn't even have room to shoot threes.

Lets not start pretending like joining Dallas turned him into 3PT threat with his 40% average. He's made 14 shots from outside, 5 of which were from that crazy TD Garden's game.

But the fact that he is shooting 40% does matter because it goes in line with playing efficient basketball. That's where Rondo can be transformed from a wild and fun pg who puts up big stats to an efficient one who can be just as effective by knowing when and where to shoot.

mavsfan1000 · 03-04-2015, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But the fact that he is shooting 40% does matter because it goes in line with playing efficient basketball. That's where Rondo can be transformed from a wild and fun pg who puts up big stats to an efficient one who can be just as effective by knowing when and where to shoot.

He needs to shoot more until defenses guard him properly. It's worth losing some efficiency to gain respect as a shooting threat and scorer. He did that perfectly last game.

EricaLubarsky · 03-04-2015, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

He needs to shoot more until defenses guard him properly. It's worth losing some efficiency to gain respect as a shooting threat and scorer. He did that perfectly last game.

Who cares if they defend him properly? If he's open 9 times out of 10 and still shooting 40% from three, then I'd be happy with him taking/shooting open threes all game if his percentage is up.

Same thing with Kidd. Kidd was slow and couldn't shoot a layup so teams focused on other players and left him open. He wasn't ever the focus of defenses, but he was open and shot well enough to punish teams when they left him open.

Twenty4sevenn · 03-04-2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

He needs to shoot more until defenses guard him properly. It's worth losing some efficiency to gain respect as a shooting threat and scorer. He did that perfectly last game.

Why do you want defenses to guard him tighter? Why do you not want 40% on open threes? What am I missing?

Who cares if people respect him or not? 40% is 40%.

Edit: didn't see Erica's post saying the same thing. Immediately responded to the ridiculousness of mavsfan1000 before continuing.

mavsfan1000 · 03-04-2015, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

Why do you want defenses to guard him tighter? Why do you not want 40% on open threes? What am I missing?

Who cares if people respect him or not? 40% is 40%.

Edit: didn't see Erica's post saying the same thing. Immediately responded to the ridiculousness of mavsfan1000 before continuing.

Can't believe I have to explain this. The tighter he is guarded, the easier it is for him to get to the rim. It also helps spacing for Ellis and whoever attacks the paint. Rondo is not Jason Kidd. Totally different playing style. Kidd was bigger and stronger. But he was slower. I would compare Rondo more similar to Parker. And Parker was able to develop a consistent jumper over time. Hope Rondo can do the same.

mavsfan1000 · 03-04-2015, 09:17 PM

Somehow I feel I will be labeled as a troll regardless what I say. I don't get any recognition around here. Why do I even bother?

spreedom · 03-05-2015, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Somehow I feel I will be labeled as a troll regardless what I say.

Maybe it's stuff like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Can't believe I have to explain this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Yeah it was clear. But people have intentionally exaggerated my statements to make me look bad. I'm sick of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Including this unnecessary thread.

And then this post.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I'm tired of this discussion about Rondo. I'm no troll.

Followed by all of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

He isn't so great on defense. Better than average but not great. See his recent performances against D. Williams and Westbrook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I stopped reading after that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I don't understand why Harris doesn't get a chance to start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Rondo once again getting burned. First by Westbrook. And now D. Williams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I think there is more than enough evidence to show Rondo's character. But I guess you can ignore it if you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

He's a headcase. Maybe grew up in troublesome areas. Whatever it is, not a fun person to be around.

mavsfan1000 · 03-05-2015, 12:23 AM

Like I said, I'm done talking about Rondo.

spreedom · 03-05-2015, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Like I said, I'm done talking about Rondo.

*stores away for future use*

mavsfan1000 · 03-05-2015, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

*stores away for future use*

Monta Ellis is awesome.

Twenty4sevenn · 03-05-2015, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Can't believe I have to explain this. The tighter he is guarded, the easier it is for him to get to the rim. It also helps spacing for Ellis and whoever attacks the paint. Rondo is not Jason Kidd. Totally different playing style. Kidd was bigger and stronger. But he was slower. I would compare Rondo more similar to Parker. And Parker was able to develop a consistent jumper over time. Hope Rondo can do the same.

Why does he need to get to the rim? Why do you hate 40% on open threes? At what percentage would you hope for Rondo to continue to get open threes? 50%? 60%?

No. You want the defense to guard Rondo tighter so other people have room to shoot 40% from the three point range. Because Rondo shooting a high percentage just doesn't fit into your "Rondo sucks at everything" narrative.

jthig32 · 03-05-2015, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

Why do you want defenses to guard him tighter? Why do you not want 40% on open threes? What am I missing?

Who cares if people respect him or not? 40% is 40%.

Edit: didn't see Erica's post saying the same thing. Immediately responded to the ridiculousness of mavsfan1000 before continuing.

Um...what? 40% is not "40%". Context matters.

He almost never shoots threes. He's made exactly 1 in his last 8 games. He's made 14 total threes since he got here, and 5 of them were in one game. If you remove that incredible outlier, he's shooting 32% from three and averaging about 1 made three every third game.

The idea that Rondo's three point percentage is somehow a feather in his offensive cap is absurd. And Kidd...well Kidd averaged between 4 and 5 three attempts a game while here. Comparing Rondo's ability from three to Kidd (right now) is incredibly misguided.

Twenty4sevenn · 03-05-2015, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Um...what? 40% is not "40%". Context matters.

He almost never shoots threes. He's made exactly 1 in his last 8 games. He's made 14 total threes since he got here, and 5 of them were in one game. If you remove that incredible outlier, he's shooting 32% from three and averaging about 1 made three every third game.

The idea that Rondo's three point percentage is somehow a feather in his offensive cap is absurd.

You're right. He should be penalized for making too many in one game.

jthig32 · 03-05-2015, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

You're right. He should be penalized for making too many in one game.

It's not about penalizing, it's about assessing the value of the data and how reliable it is to predict future results.

Bottom line: Kidd made threes at a good clip when he was open. It was a valuable tool for the Mavs. Rondo makes threes at an ok clip every once in a blue moon. It's not when he's open because he's ALWAYS open at the three point line. That is NOT a valuable tool for the Mavs, and people should not be arguing that it is.

iggymcfly · 03-06-2015, 04:38 PM

Small sample of made 3s or no, the fact remains that Rondo is 266th out of 267 in TS% this year so the idea that he should sacrifice some efficiency to shoot more is absolutely ridiculous. He's already the second least efficient player in the entire league! There's just no way to make him work in this offense. He doesn't have the necessary skills. And if he keeps playing like this, pretty soon he's going to find it's not just Dallas where's a bad fit, it's the entire league. Guards who can't shoot just don't crack rotations in the modern NBA unless they're elite Tony Allen-level defenders, and as much as people want to give him undeserved credit for the Mavs defensive improvements, Rondo is nowhere near that level of defender.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-06-2015, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

Small sample of made 3s or no, the fact remains that Rondo is 266th out of 267 in TS% this year so the idea that he should sacrifice some efficiency to shoot more is absolutely ridiculous. He's already the second least efficient player in the entire league! There's just no way to make him work in this offense. He doesn't have the necessary skills. And if he keeps playing like this, pretty soon he's going to find it's not just Dallas where's a bad fit, it's the entire league. Guards who can't shoot just don't crack rotations in the modern NBA unless they're elite Tony Allen-level defenders, and as much as people want to give him undeserved credit for the Mavs defensive improvements, Rondo is nowhere near that level of defender.

It's funny you mention Tony Allen because that's exactly who Rondo needs to be if this is going to work with him shooting the ball poorly. Be a lock down defender and throw in some offense on the side. I just don't know that Rondo would be ok doing that and the position in the West does demand more. It's a tricky situation for sure.

LonghornDub · 03-08-2015, 01:43 AM

Sorry if this has been posted, but here's an extensive Rondo exclusive Q&A from Yahoo. Long story short, it sounds like he's still far more open to re-signing with Dallas than some folks would have you believe:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rajon-r...020922406.html

Favorite line:

Quote:

Q: What are your teammates like in Dallas?

"Dirk [Nowitzki] is funny as hell. Monta [Ellis] is like my brother. We're close. In the morning we go to practice as a team. It's a great group of guys. There are not too many knuckleheads like me."

dirt_dobber · 03-08-2015, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Sorry if this has been posted, but here's an extensive Rondo exclusive Q&A from Yahoo. Long story short, it sounds like he's still far more open to re-signing with Dallas than some folks would have you believe:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rajon-r...020922406.html

Favorite line:

Nice find. I needed to read something like this from him.

Kante · 03-08-2015, 08:33 AM

Good read.

The offense will look sloppy the whole remainder of the season, that's what happens when midseason trades are made, see Kidd for example. In the summer you can work on that IF Rondo stays.

Oberon · 03-08-2015, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kante

Good read.

The offense will look sloppy the whole remainder of the season, that's what happens when midseason trades are made, see Kidd for example. In the summer you can work on that IF Rondo stays.

I don't really want to waste another year of Dirk. There will be only 1 or 2 more seasons left where Dirk can somehow be a contributor to this team.

He deserves to fight for a second title so I want Dallas to be a contender NOW rather than in a somewhat uncertain future. We have the material to be a strong team so I hope we can get something going as soon as possible although I doubt it will happen this season.

Kante · 03-08-2015, 10:04 AM

Being healthy would help and this year Dirk is a part of the problem, not playing good for the most part.

Romus · 03-08-2015, 10:04 AM

This year Dallas is not a contender, We have not a material to be a strong.
Ellis poor player, is not a top player, Dirk is so slow, so tired, so used, Rondo to slow, to clumsy, to temperamental, Parsons to fake pumper and to slow.
No fire shooter in this team, No a fiery character.
I'm so sorry.

mavsfan1000 · 03-08-2015, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kante

Good read.

The offense will look sloppy the whole remainder of the season, that's what happens when midseason trades are made, see Kidd for example. In the summer you can work on that IF Rondo stays.

Rasheed Wallace ring a bell? A mid season trade that won the Pistons a championship.