2019 Mavs Free Agency

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What on earth is there fascination with Patrick Beverly. I do not get it. If they aren't going to get one of the big names then go after the young guys with potential who have struggled but haven't hit their potential.

Which FAs fit the “young guys with potential who have struggled but haven't hit their potential” descriptor? From what I’ve seen, most of the UFA class is on the established/older side, with some of the more interesting younger guys carrying the RFA designation.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think some are pointing the arrows at the wrong people. Fans can want or not want whatever they like, but the FO has made clear indications that they want to win NOW. The only question is whether they will mortgage future cap space on tier 2 players or not. Not sure they need to, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

Absolutely..it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. There's a fine line between spending a bit too much to try and win now and flushing good cap space down the toilet. It's going to be interesting...

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This "Win Now" topic makes me picture a 13yr old sitting in front of the TV celebrating a championship on NBA2k with chicky nugget grease on the controller, complaining about why the real life FO can't just do it like that and just wants to wait to win.

Absolutely.... I'd prefer a certain level of patience. But, there's a strong chance that the Mavs will be left with a decision of going after a tier 2/tier 3 free agent versus saving the space.. I'm intrigued as to which route they'll go. And yeah, there will be some fans that'll say "here we go again". I obviously hope that they're left with a no brainer decision.. But I don't think that'll be the case.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What on earth is there fascination with Patrick Beverly. I do not get it. If they aren't going to get one of the big names then go after the young guys with potential who have struggled but haven't hit their potential.

I see the fascination with Beverley no doubt, BUT there is a price point where that ends! I don't see anyone actually tougher pound for pound with more grit than he. There is an abundant amount of fake tough, but he is the real deal. Having Bev and Barea would bring a fierce constant hustle, and grit that would be more consistent than any team in the league. Not the most athletic or talented but those two give a massive boost in plenty of close games. Once again, I get the fascination but there is a price point that you end meeting and walk away.

[rimrocker]

I'm all for Beverley because he won't strap us unless they plan to give him a ridiculous offer like the Horford rumors.
Beverley on a fair deal could be a nice trade asset if things go sour or if there is an opportunity to upgrade down the line.

I'd feel the same about Horford if he wasn't so expensive.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Which FAs fit the “young guys with potential who have struggled but haven't hit their potential” descriptor? From what I’ve seen, most of the UFA class is on the established/older side, with some of the more interesting younger guys carrying the RFA designation.

Ok so these guys are older than the typical 24 or 25 year olds I'd like but here's a list of guys that could join our rotation for the better:

Russell(I'd go all in on him and if we strike it that's fine. He's a smarter gamble then these older guys)

Terrence Ross
Derrick Rose
Enes Kanter
Jabari Parker
Rodney Hood
Marcus Morris

I'd rather let Brunson develop then look at he likes of Patrick Beverly.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I see the fascination with Beverley no doubt, BUT there is a price point where that ends! I don't see anyone actually tougher pound for pound with more grit than he. There is an abundant amount of fake tough, but he is the real deal. Having Bev and Barea would bring a fierce constant hustle, and grit that would be more consistent than any team in the league. Not the most athletic or talented but those two give a massive boost in plenty of close games. Once again, I get the fascination but there is a price point that you end meeting and walk away.

Ok let me rephrase that statement. I don't understand the point in overpaying for Beverly. If they can get him at a small deal I'm fine. Or even a big money 1 year deal I'm ok with that. But I beg them please don't sign up for the guy for 3 or 4 years.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Ok let me rephrase that statement. I don't understand the point in overpaying for Beverly. If they can get him at a small deal I'm fine. Or even a big money 1 year deal I'm ok with that. But I beg them please don't sign up for the guy for 3 or 4 years.

I'm pretty sure most of us feel the same way -- we want Beverly, but on a sensible deal... Same with Horford... Or even the list you made a couple posts up -- I could go for any of those guys if we can hit a sweet spot with money/years.

And I think that's the biggest point being made in this thread right now -- if we can't make a splashy signing, then let's make a sensible one. The biggest thing we're all disagreeing on is where splashy ends and sensible begins.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm pretty sure most of us feel the same way -- we want Beverly, but on a sensible deal... Same with Horford... Or even the list you made a couple posts up -- I could go for any of those guys if we can hit a sweet spot with money/years.

And I think that's the biggest point being made in this thread right now -- if we can't make a splashy signing, then let's make a sensible one. The biggest thing we're disagreeing on is where splashy ends and sensible begins.

This all day.

Now if someone can just create a list with a "sweet spot" contract with $ and length...

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm pretty sure most of us feel the same way -- we want Beverly, but on a sensible deal... Same with Horford... Or even the list you made a couple posts up -- I could go for any of those guys if we can hit a sweet spot with money/years.

And I think that's the biggest point being made in this thread right now -- if we can't make a splashy signing, then let's make a sensible one.

I'm fine with that but is it realistic to expect a small deal?

[rimrocker]

Most, if not all FAs will come at premium this year but my concern, along with some others is putting this team in a contract trap that we can't get out of.
I'd much rather overpay for Beverly (within reason) than someone like Horford if what is rumored is what he wants. We'd never be able to unload that contract.

There will most likely be a hell of a lot of regret this next season by a lot of teams because there will most likely be a multitude of Timofey Mozgov type contracts that teams won't be able to unload without giving up a future asset as well.

People hated Barnes', Parsons' and Wes' contracts....do you really want to get into one of those boats again? One with even a bigger hole?

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Mavs should try for the playoffs until Luka is no longer a Mav. You can't plan further out than 2-3 years in this climate.

Exactly

You get the best talent you can get RIGHT NOW and worry about later when it comes up

I think y'all forget sometimes that Donnie's greatest asset is his ability to get trades done. To get a trade done you need contracts at higher amounts. We've got zero ammo to trade for anyone except Hardaway and Lee

I'd sign Horford for 4 years. Not at $112m - that's too much. But at $90m its a deal that benefits us. Maybe he doesn't make it for the whole 4 years but after 3 he's trade bait for the next guy who has a longer contract

[Bryan_Wilson]

I really don't think anyone is arguing about not winning now. You have to have a hard line though for what you should spend on a player. If your line on bev is 9m a year but bidding takes it up to 13 don't spend 14 getting him just because we need to win now. It's pretty simple. We can't keep getting guys like Barnes at 25m or Wes at 18m and expect them to be included in any trade as a positive asset down the line.

[Underdog]

@BlakeWeird: Marc Stein on Horford and Mavs, “I’ve been trying to solve that one for a week and I’m no closer to the answer. Draft night or the night after I was told 4/112. Where? I don’t know. The Mavs keep coming up over and over. I’ve literally asked them 5 times.”

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@BlakeWeird: Marc Stein on Horford and Mavs, “I’ve been trying to solve that one for a week and I’m no closer to the answer. Draft night or the night after I was told 4/112. Where? I don’t know. The Mavs keep coming up over and over. I’ve literally asked them 5 times.”

$112M is insane unless you get one of those crazy Fish ideas to work

>>>IF<<< we sign and trade Kemba for Lee and Brunson (plus the 2nd rounders we picked up) plus cash to buy out Lee

>>>AND<<< we buyout Hardaway

>>>THEN<<< and only then would Horford be worth $112m to me

Getting both would be worth the extra for me. But Cuban would have to write off about $40m to make it work

(and of course you could throw the MLE at Beverley then)

[BPo001]

https://twitter.com/patbev21/status/1143611259880787968



*edit* How do you post tweets as photos? Is that possible?

[AO41]

Originally Posted by MFFL

$112M is insane unless you get one of those crazy Fish ideas to work

>>>IF<<< we sign and trade Kemba for Lee and Brunson (plus the 2nd rounders we picked up) plus cash to buy out Lee

>>>AND<<< we buyout Hardaway

>>>THEN<<< and only then would Horford be worth $112m to me

Getting both would be worth the extra for me. But Cuban would have to write off about $40m to make it work

(and of course you could throw the MLE at Beverley then)

As someone who is all for Getting Al, I would only offer him 3/85 or maybe 3/90 depending on what else happens. 4/112 is a fair price for year one and maybe year 2 but after that even a player of his skill set is going to start slowing down a lot.

I understand that we would do it and it make sense, but it sure would suck giving up Brunson to get Kemba.

[Underdog]

@SPREEEEEEEEEEEE: I'm ready for free agency to start

[MFFL]

omg David Lord is in on the nonsense

S&T Walker - costs us Brunson
S&T Horford - costs us Powell
Sign Beverley with the remainder

Impossible

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by MFFL

omg David Lord is in on the nonsense

S&T Walker - costs us Brunson
S&T Horford - costs us Powell
Sign Beverley with the remainder

Impossible

Dlord is a cap expert, so I trust that something like that can be done mathematically. But they're all playing a silly game that has no realistic chance of happening.

[MFFL]

I meant impossible in the possibility of happening

Obviously the math works

[j0Shi]

This cap wizardry is fun unless it has no chance of happening. I bet someone could come up with a way for the Lakers to grab both Kawhi and Durant.

Next up: "We never said it was going to happen, just that there was a path to [insert whatever]." The dark side of content creation.

[Male30Dan]

I continue to personally be amazed that Vucevic isn't more of a desire for Dallas, despite his speed constantly being blasted, which isn't world class terrible or anything (got around LeBron just fine - good read overall too). I'm just honestly blown away by it. He's a fantastic player that fits in with multiple needs we have like rebounding, 3pt shooting, efficiency, position of need, age (much better so than other options like Horford), etc...

If heavily pursued, I also think he would be highly interested in coming given the fit and international presence the team has (vs. likely swinging and missing yet again on other bigger names like Kawhi/Durant on the true star side and even lesser guys like Walker/Harris/Butler). I mean, check some of this out (tried to attach pics with like 3 different tools but not working for whatever reason, so see this link and check out EWA, VA, PER and DRBR by all players but, especially, by way of Centers).

Is what it is - the Mavs (and several on this board) don't seem interested, but I'd literally be ecstatic if he signed. He was the best player on an Eastern Conference playoff team (poor playoff team, but still) and he'd be our 3rd best player (but likely most efficient). Clearly you then have a LOT of money invested in the front court and not a lot to show in the back court, but man, there would be a lot of trade options available too.

People have been tossing around the silliness of Powell in a S/T and Brunson in a 2nd S/T, but I think a lot of teams would be interested in a package with both. Could you entice a team like Charlotte to part with Kemba in a S/T if they feel they're losing him anyway with the combination of Powell AND Brunson along with whatever else it takes to make the trade work (wouldn't desperately need either with Kemba/Vucevic). There are several other options as well if Kemba's not your cup of tea...

I dunno, I just see it possible if you get your C and use Powell now that he's opted in along with Brunson to go get a stud G. Clearly you still have a bit of a hole at your other guard spot, but a lineup of:

Vucevic
Porzingis
Doncic
THJ
Walker

...is pretty freaking good! I likewise wonder how much more efficient a guy like THJ becomes with a team around him like that. Probably not much (and it's possible he's a detriment by still trying to play Jordan ball at times), but guys would be much more open so I'm sure he'd see a jump...

[EricaLubarsky]

I hear that we’re both going to overpay for subpar talent, taking us out of all future free agency, and also going to come away empty handed with another wasted year

Can anyone confirm?

[endtroducing MASKED]

Just get me to Sunday night dammit

[EricaLubarsky]

Reaves is not a two-way according to Townsend. Exhibit 10 which can become a two-way

[EricaLubarsky]

DFS gets QO according to Cato

[quietsavant]

https://wfnz.radio.com/blogs/nick-wi...f-kemba-walker

Mavs interest

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by quietsavant

https://wfnz.radio.com/blogs/nick-wi...f-kemba-walker

Mavs interest

Townsend thinks Celtics and Hornets are both more likely than Mavs

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Celtics make more sense fit-wise. That is still a big sticking point for the Mavs in my view.

[quietsavant]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Townsend thinks Celtics and Hornets are both more likely than Mavs

I trust Brad a lot.
Also trust Rick Bonnell.
Interested to see which side gives.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

I continue to personally be amazed that Vucevic isn't more of a desire for Dallas, despite his speed constantly being blasted, which isn't world class terrible or anything (got around LeBron just fine - good read overall too). I'm just honestly blown away by it. He's a fantastic player that fits in with multiple needs we have like rebounding, 3pt shooting, efficiency, position of need, age (much better so than other options like Horford), etc...

If heavily pursued, I also think he would be highly interested in coming given the fit and international presence the team has (vs. likely swinging and missing yet again on other bigger names like Kawhi/Durant on the true star side and even lesser guys like Walker/Harris/Butler). I mean, check some of this out (tried to attach pics with like 3 different tools but not working for whatever reason, so see this link and check out EWA, VA, PER and DRBR by all players but, especially, by way of Centers).

Is what it is - the Mavs (and several on this board) don't seem interested, but I'd literally be ecstatic if he signed. He was the best player on an Eastern Conference playoff team (poor playoff team, but still) and he'd be our 3rd best player (but likely most efficient). Clearly you then have a LOT of money invested in the front court and not a lot to show in the back court, but man, there would be a lot of trade options available too.

People have been tossing around the silliness of Powell in a S/T and Brunson in a 2nd S/T, but I think a lot of teams would be interested in a package with both. Could you entice a team like Charlotte to part with Kemba in a S/T if they feel they're losing him anyway with the combination of Powell AND Brunson along with whatever else it takes to make the trade work (wouldn't desperately need either with Kemba/Vucevic). There are several other options as well if Kemba's not your cup of tea...

I dunno, I just see it possible if you get your C and use Powell now that he's opted in along with Brunson to go get a stud G. Clearly you still have a bit of a hole at your other guard spot, but a lineup of:

Vucevic
Porzingis
Doncic
THJ
Walker

...is pretty freaking good! I likewise wonder how much more efficient a guy like THJ becomes with a team around him like that. Probably not much (and it's possible he's a detriment by still trying to play Jordan ball at times), but guys would be much more open so I'm sure he'd see a jump...

Vucevich does not fit better than horford... like not even close.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Vucevich does not fit better than horford... like not even close.

Not even close? Almost all his stats are better so that alone should make it close. He's younger, more athletic, more Euro , maybe cheaper(?). I get that Horford in theory is the better pnr defender, but not even close to a better fit is stretching it IMO.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Vucevich does not fit better than horford... like not even close.

Yes, below average rebounding bigs (that we try to smush into labels like "he doesn't have good rebounding numbers but helps with team rebounding") that are 5 years older despite looking for 4 year contracts, while regularly suffering from runner's knee, who average 7+ points per game less and literally (and sadly) almost HALF as many rebounds, while having a PER of 5+ points lower and a WS of 2.5+ are MUCH better fits. And it's not even close apparently... He's a better defender. That's it 5-0. He's a better defender. They're both very good passers. They're both good shooters. If you just want a better defender than Vucevic, there's a LOT smarter ways to tackle it than a guy that's going to be 37 years old at the end of his RIDICULOUSLY overpaid contract demands. What a terrible take...

Do you know this guy's family or something? Is there a relationship here you're not disclosing? Just a terrible take... And I get it... You'll say "I said FIT" and likely take stances like "we need defense WAY more than we need scoring and amazing rebounding from our 5 - look what Jordan who is a great rebounder but terrible defender did for Dallas last year." And I hear you, but Vucevic isn't a horrible defender - he's just not Horford. Again, if defense is what you want, there's a lot of ways to get it that don't cost 30m/year while degrading terribly each year moving forward. Vucevic is also a really, really good offensive weapon while also giving another 3PT guy on the team to go with his fantastic rebounding.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Yes, below average rebounding bigs (that we try to smush into labels like "he doesn't have good rebounding numbers but helps with team rebounding") that are 5 years older despite looking for 4 year contracts, while regularly suffering from runner's knee, who average 7+ points per game less and literally (and sadly) almost HALF as many rebounds, while having a PER of 5+ points lower and a WS of 2.5+ are MUCH better fit. And it's not even close apparently... He's a better defender. That's it 5-0. He's a better defender. They're both very good passers. They're both good shooters. If you just want a better defender than Vucevic, there's a LOT smarter ways to tackle it than a guy that's going to be 37 years old at the end of his RIDICULOUSLY overpaid contract demands. What a terrible take...

Agreed. I'm not seeing a decent argument of Horford over Vuc, but I'd take either if money wasn't an obstacle.

[Male30Dan]

Speaking of ways to improve defense (while not sacrificing GREATLY at rebounding, health, cost, etc), this could be tasty if in any way/shape/form it's possible. Maybe a 3-team trade where we have Powell and a couple of 2nds going out to the team that's offering a 1st rounder to Houston with us getting Capela! Now, why the team taking Powell and 2nds wouldn't greatly rather Capela in a straight-up trade w/Houston, hey, I don't want to hear that. Let me dream!

I'd even toss in Brunson to make it work for the team sending Houston the 1st. You could get your starting PG in Walker/Brogdon/etc with the space remaining! Making a swap like that allows us to still get a great player given how close Powell/Capela are salary-wise. Clearly not going to happen, but would be pretty sweet and be an even better fit age wise than Vucevic. Clearly not as capable offensively, but a great traditional 5 elsewhere while also being able to run a bit.

Again, you still end up with the same players going out and the same studly starting 5 that's better defensively vs. offensively vs. the lineup above with Vucevic:

C - Capela
PF - Porzingis
SF - Doncic
SG - THJ
PG - Walker

[Five-ofan]

Let's get some things clear, a) horford is a much better shooter than vucevich. Like it isn't close. Career 37% 3pt shooter vs career 33% 3 pt shooter. B) horford is a much better athlete than. Again not close, not sure where you got vuc was a better athlete smc. C) the the third option in a offense with luka and kp is going to be marginalized much like with bosh when he was in Miami. Given that role(unless you want us to be spamming vuc post ups with luka and kp spotting up in which case we'll just agree to disagree.) horfords combination of screening, shooting, passing and ability to rim run is more valuable than vucs variety of floaters from the post. D) horford has proven he can stay on the floor and remain a defensive asset rather than a liability against small lineups in the playoffs. Vuc on the other hand won't be able to play in games at the highest level.

I'm on record as wanting absolutely nothing to do with horford at 4/112. If he gets that let him go to the lakers, who's window he better fits. But if your going to sign someone for huge money that plays center despite the fact that our second best player WILL play center in our closing lineups in the playoffs, horford is a much better fit.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Let's get some things clear, a) horford is a much better shooter than vucevich. Like it isn't close. Career 37% 3pt shooter vs career 33% 3 pt shooter. B) horford is a much better athlete than. Again not close, not sure where you got vuc was a better athlete smc. C) the the third option in a offense with luka and kp is going to be marginalized much like with bosh when he was in Miami. Given that role(unless you want us to be spamming vuc post ups with luka and kp spotting up in which case we'll just agree to disagree.) horfords combination of screening, shooting, passing and ability to rim run is more valuable than vucs variety of floaters from the post. D) horford has proven he can stay on the floor and remain a defensive asset rather than a liability against small lineups in the playoffs. Vuc on the other hand won't be able to play in games at the highest level.

I'm on record as wanting absolutely nothing to do with horford at 4/112. If he gets that let him go to the lakers, who's window he better fits. But if your going to sign someone for huge money that plays center despite the fact that our second best player WILL play center in our closing lineups in the playoffs, horford is a much better fit.

Dude, your takes on "not even close" are laughable. Horford has shot 3s exactly 1 year better than Vucevic did last year. Horford only started shooting them 4 years ago and Vucevic only started shooting them 2 years ago. Last year is the Vucevic that will be improved upon for future years, especially if you have real talent surrounding him. Last year Vucevic shot .364 from 3. Last year Horford shot .360 from 3. They put up the same average of 3s per game. NOT EVEN CLOSE... LOL... Horford is likely the better shooter when you factor everything in (FT, 2PT, etc), but they're both assets at the 5 and I think Vucevic ends up being the better shooter over the next several years, which is WHAT MATTERS GIVEN WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR HORFORD THE 29 YEAR OLD!

Disagree on the athlete comment - not because he wasn't over the course of most of his career, but I don't think he will be over the next several years. He's breaking down man... We will definitely agree to disagree on his fit in the offense. Definitely... As for your final comment, the last thing Horford has proven is that he can stay on the floor MOVING FORWARD. He's breaking down and I want nothing to do with him at the terms being kicked around. Simply put, I disagree with most all of your points and you disgree with mine. Doesn't matter because, sadly, I think they're more likely to do what you want vs. what I want. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Dude, your takes on "not even close" are laughable. Horford has shot 3s exactly 1 year better than Vucevic did last year. Horford only started shooting them 4 years ago and Vucevic only started shooting them 2 years ago. Last year is the Vucevic that will be improved upon for future years, especially if you have real talent surrounding him. Last year Vucevic shot .364 from 3. Last year Horford shot .360 from 3. They put up the same average of 3s per game. NOT EVEN CLOSE... LOL... Horford is likely the better shooter when you factor everything in (FT, 2PT, etc), but they're both assets at the 5 and I think Vucevic ends up being the better shooter over the next several years, which is WHAT MATTERS GIVEN WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR HORFORD THE 29 YEAR OLD!

Disagree on the athlete comment - not because he wasn't over the course of most of his career, but I don't think he will be over the next several years. He's breaking down man... We will definitely agree to disagree on his fit in the offense. Definitely... As for your final comment, the last thing Horford has proven is that he can stay on the floor MOVING FORWARD. He's breaking down and I want nothing to do with him at the terms being kicked around. Simply put, I disagree with most all of your points and you disgree with mine. Doesn't matter because, sadly, I think they're more likely to do what you want vs. what I want. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.

First paragraph, vuc had a career year shooting. Horford has been a near Dirk level midrange shooter his whole career, and a good 3pt shooter for a while. I trust that more than a career shooting year for Vuc.

Second paragraph I actually think we're more likely to sign vuc than horford. Horford to the lakers just makes so much more sense than he does here because of their window and the fact that they are probably closer to winning a ring(though I'd imagine not by nearly as much as people think, I think Luka is at least second team all NBA next year) so it makes more sense for both him and them for him to sign there.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

First paragraph, vuc had a career year shooting. Horford has been a near Dirk level midrange shooter his whole career, and a good 3pt shooter for a while. I trust that more than a career shooting year for Vuc.

Second paragraph I actually think we're more likely to sign vuc than horford. Horford to the lakers just makes so much more sense than he does here because of their window and the fact that they are probably closer to winning a ring(though I'd imagine not by nearly as much as people think, I think Luka is at least second team all NBA next year) so it makes more sense for both him and them for him to sign there.

Fair enough on consistency, but again, he only just now started shooting 3s and being aggressive. I think he has more growth to do, even if his overall numbers would be less in Dallas (Bosh effect) - think he would be more efficient.

And again, we'll see. I'm so scared that, as usual, we'll get laughed at by the high end free agents and then stare at a reality where we either over pay for guys like Horford or go 2 years in a row without much of an influx of talent (given poor FA year next year). Do you ruin 2 years of Luka/Porzingis? No - so they do the best they can and sign guys that will only sign here because they've over priced their worth to the rest of the NBA.

Man do I hope I'm wrong, and I've listed a few ways I think it could be avoided in earlier posts (2 today and an earlier one several days back). Who knows... I'm a fan no matter what and will root for them no matter what, but there really is a chance to do something special here if they surround Luka/KP the right way. Fingers crossed and hurry up Sunday!