What were the Finley and Nash trades? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

XnTX · 05-08-2003, 11:47 AM

Who was involved on both sides for each player?

grbh · 05-08-2003, 11:51 AM

Finley:Acquired from Phoenix 12/26/96 with Sam Cassell, A.C. Green, and a 2nd
round draft pick in 1998 for Jason Kidd, Tony Dumas, and Loren Meyer

Nash: Acquired from Phoenix 6/24/98 for Bubba Wells, Martin Muursepp, the draft
rights to Pat Garrity (#19), and a 1999 1st round draft pick

I believe that number 1 pick ended up being Marion.

XnTX · 05-08-2003, 11:55 AM

Thanks. I didn't remember that the pick ended up being Marion.

Dooby · 05-08-2003, 01:13 PM

Since it came up again, at the time those trades were made, we got hosed.

We traded a mid first rounder and sure fire lottery pick for Phoenix's third-string PG.

From what I remember, most GM's were shocked when we traded Kidd. The kind of shock you usually don't see because every GM knows who is shopping who. Basically, what I am saying, is we didn't shop Kidd around at all, and just quickly traded him for the first offer. In short, I still think we could have gotten a better deal.

mavsfanforever · 05-08-2003, 01:22 PM

Marion would have helped Mavs.

TheKid · 05-08-2003, 01:24 PM

Marion would have helped but he's not the answer that the Mavs need. I think the Mavs in the long run got the better end of that deal. Maybe gave up a little pre-maturely on Kidd but if they weren't willing to keep him they got Finley in return who has been just as consistent as Kidd has been as far as being there for his team goes.

ariosto · 05-08-2003, 01:33 PM

Kidd/Marion/Dirk would have probably been a better team than Nash/Fin/Dirk, but that doesn't mean that they were bad trades. We were forced into trading Kidd, as I understand it, and Fin is great compensation. Nash was a steal, I think, because I doubt we would have drafted Marion with that pick. It worked out well for both teams.

David · 05-08-2003, 01:51 PM

Kidd was gone when Nelson got here. He was on record as saying he would have built around Kidd instead of trading him.

Nash was third string behind Kidd and Kevin Johnson. KJ remarked that there were times, in practice, when Nash was the best PG on the floor. We've been seeing a little of that, the last two years.

As I understand it, the Dirk trade and the Nash/Garrity trades were related. One wouldn't have happened without the other.

Marion was drafted by Phoenix. That draft pick could have turned out to have been ANYONE if the Mavs had kept it.

Dooby · 05-08-2003, 02:03 PM

David,

1. The Dirk "trade" and the Nash trade are related, yes. But the Dirk pick happened first and would have happened regardless. Remember, at the time of the draft, Dirk was publically saying he was staying in Germany to play, and had privately been told that he was going to be a Boston Celtic and was surprised when Dallas drafted him. Perot went to Don and told him that he had to have an actual player at a press conference to show the team was trying to improve in order to sell tickets, and some gaingly, foreign, highschool kid refusing to come to the USA and staying in Germany did not cut it. So, the Nash trade happened because of the Dirk-pick.

2. The fact that Nash might have been the best point guard in practice doesn't change the fact that we traded an unprotected lottery pick and another mid-firstrounder for another teams' third-string point guard. If the Mavs pingpong balls had finally dropped the right way that year, we still would have had to ship the no. 1 overall pick to Phoenix. THAT was stupid. Regardless, who really thought the Mavs were not going to be in the lottery that year, anyway?

3. No one mentions Nellie in this thread but you. Stop looking for fights.

David · 05-08-2003, 05:37 PM

The Mavs had #6 that year which they traded for #9 and #19(I think). The guy Phoenix wanted was Garrity at #19. The Suns wanted that pick and the next year's #1 pick, also. It was unknown, at the time, what the pick was going to be. I would have put some kind of restriction on the pick, if it had been me.

To say that the Mavs could have had Marion, is a stretch. If they hadn't made the trade for Nash, there is no telling where the Mavs would have picked, the next year. I read recently where Nelson said they were hoping Dirk was going to be there at #9 but were surprised that Pierce was there also. Nelson said one trade was not going to be made without the other. Without trading the #6, the Mavs wouldn't have had the extra #1 that year to trade for Nash.

Kidd and KJ were two all-pro calibre PGs. Nash was too valuable of an asset to sit behind those two. As we can see now, he was worth what he was traded for. PGs are at a premium.

jayC · 05-08-2003, 05:57 PM

Remember Jim Cleamons basket ball idiot made the trade to get rid of kidd and mashburn. Ross Perot was the owner back then and didn't know how many basketball players needed to be on the floor at the same time. Predated cuban and nellie mistakes.

Dave nellie had nothing to do with the kidd trade.

No one in their right mind would trade kidd for basically finley and spare parts. Except someone that knew nothing about basketball.

And how is marion doing right about know he didn't show in the phoenix series know did he. To play lady luck and say we might have finally won the lottery is a longshot at best. What was the first thing bill parcells did when he got here he got some of his guys that knew his system. Nash qualifies as that kind of pickup. I hate how nash gets drilled for three bad games and doesn't get praised for 80 odd other good games.

Jimmy Jackson should have been the only star to leave.

Dooby · 05-08-2003, 10:18 PM

1. Zachenelli made the Kidd trade. Nelson said he would not have made that trade. But on paper it wasn't Finley and parts for Kidd. It was Finley and Sam Cassell. Cassell was shipped to Pheonix in the Barkley to Houston trade. Cassell had previously gotten his 2 rings with Houston. The mavs really thought they had brought in a solid point and a solid 2 guard. I will point out that Cassell has had an allstar year since then.

2. Nelson made the Mashburn trade.

David, I have never seen a quote where Nelson said one move would not have been made without the other, or that Garrity was really Phoenix's choice at 19. Do you have a source for that? I admit that I'll eat crow if you do.

David · 05-08-2003, 11:50 PM

They were rehashing all this stuff just a few days ago. Nelson said Garrity was picked, by the Mavs, for Phoenix, just as the Mavs drafted Traylor for Dallas and the Bucks drafted Dirk for the Mavs and THEN the trades were made. I read it recently or I wouldn't have remembered it. I'll try to look it up. It may take a while. If I find it and I have it wrong, I'll say so.

"grbh" posted this on a thread about Sactown newspapers. If they are correct in what they are saying in this article, then so am I.
Link

I think the story says the Bucks drafted Garrity for Dallas to trade to the Suns.