o'neal not going to visit texas; howard's contract - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Mandyahl · 07-08-2003, 10:24 PM

link from star telegram

Mavericks Notes
Indiana free agent might not make visit to Texas
By Dwain Price
Star-Telegram Staff Writer
GETTY IMAGES/RON HOSKINS

DALLAS - Indiana Pacers free agent Jermaine O'Neal's planned trip to Texas today may be delayed because of a family emergency.

Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, who was readily awaiting O'Neal's arrival, said he's convinced that O'Neal might not visit at all.

"It doesn't look like Jermaine is coming to visit," Cuban said in an e-mail. "... It doesn't appear he is going to San Antonio, either."

But Deddrick Faison, O'Neal's Portland-based agent, said he expects his client to visit the Mavericks and San Antonio Spurs during the same trip to Texas.

Faison did not elaborate on the family emergency. O'Neal also plans to visit the Miami Heat.

"At this point in time he's not real sure where he's going to go," Faison said. "I think more than anything else, he's with his family right now."

Although the Pacers plan to offer O'Neal the maximum contract of seven years worth $123 million, Faison said that O'Neal could wind up with the Mavericks if a sign-and-trade could be worked out.

"There's so many numbers and so many ways to work it, as far as swapping players and considerations," said Faison, who wasn't sure whether O'Neal would sign a contract on July 16, the first day players are allowed to sign.

O'Neal, 24, is coming off his second straight All-Star appearance. The athletic 6-foot-11, 230-pound power forward could become the enforcer the Mavericks sorely lack.

The Portland Trail Blazers drafted O'Neal out of high school in the first round (17th overall) in 1996.

Howard's contract

Josh Howard, the Mavericks' first-round pick, has signed a contract that will pay him more than $2.4 million over three years.

He will be paid $773,440 as a rookie, $823,640 in his second season and $873,880 during the 2005-06 season.

Under terms of the collective-bargaining agreement, the Mavericks were only obligated to pay Howard $669,500 in the first year of his three-year contract, $719,700 in the second and $769,900 in the third.

But the NBA allowed negotiating room for up to a 20 percent increase in each of those years, and agent Lance Young was able to get the higher salaries for the 6-foot-6 forward from Wake Forest.

"He definitely was thrilled to have it all signed and behind him," Young said. "He said that's a little more money than he's used to seeing."

Young now is pursuing shoe and trading-card deals for Howard. He said he has three or four shoe deals on the table, but nothing has been finalized.

"We're obviously looking at who's going to pay the most money, and who he feels more comfortable with," Young said. "But it doesn't always come down to money, because there are a few shoes that he says he won't wear."

Young plans to fly to Los Angeles this weekend and meet with Howard, who is participating in the LA Pro Summer League for the Mavericks.

Nash13 · 07-08-2003, 11:12 PM

Jermaine O' Neal is not worth 123mil for 10yrs, let alone 7. Dallas can't match 15% of that contract unless they add Finley and/or NVE in the trade.

If that's what it'll take for him to come here, we'd be better off with someone else.

OutletPass · 07-08-2003, 11:22 PM

Orginally posted by 13

Quote:

Jermaine O' Neal is not worth 123mil for 10yrs, let alone 7

You may be right or you may be wrong BUT A real live adult GM thinks he is.

Quote:

we'd be better off with someone else.

OK GM13, who would that be ? It's time to back up your vague opinions with some names.

Again, no offense intended, but it's pretty easy to post without being specific.

Nash13 · 07-08-2003, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: OutletPass
Orginally posted by 13

Quote:

Jermaine O' Neal is not worth 123mil for 10yrs, let alone 7

A real live adult GM thinks he is.

Quote:

we'd be better off with someone else.

OK GM13, who would that be ? It's time to back up your vague opinions with some names.

Again, no offense intended, but it's pretty easy to post without being specific.

To your first statement, If Walsh is going to sign JO to a 123mil deal, he will end up like Kevin Garnett b/c one, the Pacers are in the east, and two, the Pacers are not a playoff team. For the last 2 or 3 years, all the analysis predicted the Pacers to go to the Eastern Conference Finals, but instead, they lose in the first round. The GM hasn't done anything to help them advance, and if they sign O' Neal to that, they will fill up their cap for a long time.

Now to your second statement, i figured that since we're in the offseason, and everyone's talking about Free Agency, i guess i wanted to leave that to your imagination. I mean, JO is a PF, which is what dirk is. He's too big to play SF, too small to play C in the west, and Dallas have made it clear that they won't move Dirk back down to SF, so JO wouldn't work here. So i suggest get ZO, and PJ Brown. So we can make Raef our 2nd option at PF, and make Bradley our 3rd option at C. Also, we need a SG or SF backup that can score, so i was think more of a Peeler, and/or Robert Horry if we want to play big.

I hope i've backed up my vague opinions OP.

And it's The Nash, not 13.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 12:02 AM

Actually, JO played center when he was with Portland, and in Indiana before the Artest trade.

JO is worth every dime he gets in Indiana, sit back and think. Well they might have lost in the 1st round a few years in a row, but without JO they wouldn't win a game. The only reason B. Miller was an all-star was because they were short on big men.

I dont see them being real good with free agents anyway, who would want to play with Artest and Miller???
So if i was Walsh, i would give JO enough money for him to stay, because he is Indiana.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 12:45 AM

Long Blue, when he played for Portland, the west wasn't as big as they are now, and the east's best Center is 6'8 and plays for the Pistons, so the east wasn't that big.

With that salary, JO will have to be a Magic Johnson, Isaah Thomas, Hakeem Oloujowan type of player to win it all b/c they may may not have enough money down the road to get another top player.

Example, The last couple of Champions had to good players, Spurs: Duncan/Robinson, Bulls: Jordan/Pippen, Lakers:Shaq/Kobe.

And in the league now, you got Lakers:Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton, Spurs: Duncan/probably Kidd, Kings:Webber/Peja/Bibby, Mavs[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]irk/Finley/Nash.

And with the east, Nets: ???/???, Pistons: Ben Wallace/Rip Hamilton, Philly: Iverson/???, Pacers: JO/???.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 12:55 AM

I never said i thought the Pacers were gonna win it, i don't think any team has a chance against the Lakers...

And when he played for Portland there were players like Shaq, a young Duncan, a good Malone, and a young Garnett. This is just off the top of my head, so i bet there was plenty more big men that could do the job.
JO would be a real good match for the Mavs anyway, he has good post moves, athletic, good defender, versatile, can hit the 15 footer, fast. And at 6'11 i think he able to hold his own. Who would you rather take, Raef or JO.

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 01:01 AM

jo didn't play much for portland either, did he? that's what i seem to remember, although i am not really sure.

but i would love jo on the mavs anyways.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 01:07 AM

When you say you never thought the Pacers would win it, if Walsh thought like that, then i would say sign him for 123mil. The main point of improving a team is to one day win the title, not just to get a good player.

And when he play for portland, Shaq wasn't as big as he is now, Duncan's wasn't and still isn't a Center, neither is Malone, and KG didn't put up those monster numbers he does now.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 01:25 AM

I dont think Walsh thinks he is going to win it, anybody would realize that with that squad it would be impossible. But O'neal fills the stands, and is the easiest FA to do that, seeing as he is the only talented player willing to play in Indiana.

If your gonna bring up that Dunan isn't a center, tahn the only decent center in the West now is Shaq, plus Yao, who had one of the least productive stats out of big men rookies the past few years.

Duncan put up 21 and 11 his rookie season, and Defense puts their extra man on him, so their best defender can help out, so i don't think position would matter for him.

Shaq might have not been "big", but he still put up "big" numbers. 28 and 11

Garnett's 18 and 9 is good enough for me.

Malone's 23 and 9 had to be guarded by centers and PF's

Zo's 19 and 9 although is the east was pretty good also.

I'm sure there was plenty of other decent big men.

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 01:30 AM

this whole argument is pointless considering that o'neal played about 10mpg for portland. he wasn't successful in portland as a center, period, so it doesn't matter who he wasn't successful against.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 01:32 AM

Your right

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 01:37 AM

Ok if you want to put forwards in it, you think he can consistenly shoot over Shaq, Garnett, Webber, Dirk, Duncan, etc? Would he even make the all star team in the west, doubt it.

He wouldn't be the same player in the west as he would in the east.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 01:39 AM

Yeah, but he would be a hell of an upgrade from Lafrentz, he would be an Elton Brand type producer. And to say he wouldn't get enough touches would be wrong, because we have no one in the post to take up shots down there.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 02:05 AM

I never said he wouldn't get the touches, he wouldn't be able to contend with the better players of the west.

In the West, the top 4 teams already have at least two players that put up 20+ppg, and one player that's averaging at least 10 boards, and already one player that averages 2+ blocks per game. My point is, where will he have room to improve?

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 02:19 AM

We would have room to improve at offense down low, rebounds, help side defense, strong side defense, youth, players who go to the rim hard. O'neal will bring that.

Whether you think O'neal isn't a talented player is your own problem.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 02:44 AM

Now you're putting words in my mouths, i never said he wasn't a talented player, i do think he's had it easier than Dirk, Duncan, Webber, etc.

Here's some stats for you:

In the playoffs, about 60% of the top scorers in the playoffs were in the west, over 50% of the rebounders were in the west.

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 02:46 AM

wait, so you both think he is talented?

the argument is just how well he will do in the west?

can we just agree that the west has more talent but that jo would still be a fine addition to the mavs even if he didn't put up the same numbers as he did in the east?

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 03:16 AM

Mandy, my point is is that he won't be so special if he didn't put up the same numbers. He would just be a role player that comes off the bench. He'd be a good role player, but still a role player.

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 03:19 AM

why would jo come off the bench? he could start at center...he's better than raef or bradley.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 03:25 AM

Mandy, did you actually read what me and long blue was talking about? Seriously, b/c we just said, and you agreed that he's not a good Western Conference Center.

He's a better player than Bradley and Raef, but he's not a better fit for a center. What if we Chris Webber, he's not a true center, and he wouldn't start over Dirk.

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 03:32 AM

i thought all we agreed on was that he did not play well at the center position while in portland. that doesn't mean he couldn't play center now. he was just out of high school when in portland, so he probably had a hard time banging with big bodies then. now he is older and more physically mature. what makes you think he wouldn't make a better center than raef or bradley?

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 03:54 AM

Dirk is older and more physically mature, but you don't see him playing center. Most to all centers in the NBA, whether it's in the east or west, are bigger than him. He can't post them up, or really crash boards with them.

OutletPass · 07-09-2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Nash13:

Quote:

Also, we need a SG or SF backup that can score, so i was think more of a Peeler, and/or Robert Horry if we want to play big.

ROFLMAO.

13, you've gone from vague to silly. Peeler and Horry ? What an absoute joke... You want Zo with all his risks and then Peeler and Horry...you've got to be kidding. How absolutely lame. 13, Horry's on his way out of the league and Peeler is a huge spare.

Tell you what...be brave and post a poll and see how many say yes to Peeler and Horry. I challenge you to do that.

And the only "The Nash" is Steve... no matter your delusions of grandeur.

madape · 07-09-2003, 08:18 AM

Why did we even waste our time with this? Didn't everyone realize O'Neil was staying in Indianapolis? All this pusuit did was ensure that we wouldn't get Malone. It was a waste of time and effort to even think about this. Cuban is the worst GM in the league. He's ruining a golden opportunity to get better. We're going to end up with no one.

Blonde Bomber · 07-09-2003, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: madape
Why did we even waste our time with this? Didn't everyone realize O'Neil was staying in Indianapolis? All this pusuit did was ensure that we wouldn't get Malone. It was a waste of time and effort to even think about this. Cuban is the worst GM in the league. He's ruining a golden opportunity to get better. We're going to end up with no one.

yes, and Kidd will be resigning back with NJ. Your right, Cuban needs to put down his fantasy magazine and get in there and get some players who will help this squad. If not then were doomed for this years version of Popeye Jones and Walt Williams. The rich get richer and we look like were stuck in quick sand waiting for a good buy like last year and it blew up in our face, just like it will this year when Zo reups with Miami.

OutletPass · 07-09-2003, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by the famous MADAPE:

Quote:

Cuban is the worst GM in the league. He's ruining a golden opportunity to get better. We're going to end up with no one.

My worst fear. And you just well may be right. I thought we were supposed to be the team everyone wanted to come to. I guess a flat screen andan XBOX in every locker just doesn't do the trick. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Oh well, if 13 was GM, we'd have Horry and Peeler. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]