Who's better?

[MFFL]

No not Dirk/Finley. Who is the better forward - Dirk or Garnett?

[Bayliss]

Right now I'd say Garnett is slightly better. However, Dirk has a greater upside and in a year or two Dirk will be the best power forward in the league. Dirk will be better than KG, Webber, and Duncan.

In order for Dirk to be the best power forward, he needs to

a) Rebound more consistent (He does have good rebounding games but he needs to get 10 boards EVERY night... with no excuses.)

b) Defend better (He showed glimpses in the Sacremento game, but he needs to bring the shot blocking ability and close out D EVERY single night.)

When he conquers a and b, Dirk will be the best power forward in the NBA.

[Murphy3]

i agre...dirk isn't quite to the point to where he's a consistent solid defensive player...although he has been very impressive lately.
Rebounding..well, Dirk has been very impressive again with this..and it will only get better.

Offensively, i know garnett averages more points but that's because he is it offensively. Yes, i know they have some other guys that can compliment him..but that's it..without KG, they don't have that much offensively other than some jumpshooters....with KG..you can pound it in and let him do his job.

Now, I do believe that dirk is more solid all around on offense...and I think dirk would actually be more succesful offensively if he was in the same situation. Dirk is a better shooter. Plus, he can drive and post up. No, i know he's not as far along posting up as KG, but KG isn't as good of a jumpshooter as dirk. Plus, dirk's post up game is improving by leaps and bounds week to week. Dirk has the better upside offensively.

Plus, Dirk doesn't turn the ball over much at all..espcially in comparison to KG.

I'd say, slight edge to KG right now..but dirk will be pushing him hard by the end of this year..and i think that by the end of next...Dirk will be the better player

[digit]

"Offensively, i know garnett averages more points"
KG 20.9 vs. Dirk 23.2(exclude the Toronto, Portland game AND sinus infection slump and he even gets around 25/26 or something...)

digit

[ma-gaga]

Garnett is a better overall player. He's more consistant. Dirk's a better pure shooter. Once Dirk rebounds, steals, blocks, and assists consistantly, he'll be up on KG's level. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Right now, there is a definite difference between the two. We'll see which one is better in a couple of years.

How old is Dirk?

[Murphy3]

oops, thanks digit.

i do know that garnett is a better rebounder and a bit better defender.. but dirk is constantly improving in those areas. plus, dirk is a much better shooter and is better all around offensively.

right now...they are in the same class...garnett might be slightly better..but not by much if he is...
like i said..i think it'll be a toss-up by the end of the season and that dirk will be better than him by the end of next year

[Murphy3]

dirk is 23

[ma-gaga]

Just because I like to use statistics to back up my ideas. From ESPN, both 2001/Career stats:

KG:
points 20.9/18.6
rebounds 12.3/9.7
assists 5.2/3.9
steals 1.23/1.4
turnovers 3.1/2.5
age 25

Dirk:
points 23.2/17.7
rebounds 8.9/7.1
assists 2.0/2.0
steals 0.68/0.8
turnovers 1.0/1.7
age 23

KG is known as a boxscore stuffer. He does everything. Dirk does turnover the ball a lot less, but his assists also reflect that. Shooting percentages favor Dirk all across the board, 0.480/0.389/0.847 to 0.458/0.304/0.802. Dirk is a better shooter. KG is a better all around player.

They both are idealy suited to their current team. I can't imagine Dirk playing for the Wolves. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[ma-gaga]

Blocks:
KG 1.73/1.80
Dirk 0.73/0.90

Sorry, I love Dirk, but KG's a better overall player NOW.

[TheKid]

Well this will probably knock some of you off your seats, especially because I was one who was saying NO WAY IN HELL was Dirk as good as Garnett. WELL, he is! Garnett is a better defender and probably more athletic than Dirk, HOWEVER I'd have to go with Dirk myself. Believe it or not, Dirk causes MORE of a matchup problem because he is more versatile than Garnett. Now that's not taking anything away from Garnett, but Dirk can actually step behind the three point arc and CONSISTENTLY hurt you, where as Garnett has the ability to make that shot, but if that's the only shot he was able to get off, chances are he wouldn't hurt you that badly.

I think both of them are tremendous rebounders. It seems like Garnett is a better rebounder, but I personally I think that has more to do with the fact that Garnett is a post player first where as Dirk can play in the post but since he causes mismatch problems, he tends to play on the perimeter more than Garnett.

Now Garnett is a better defender than Dirk but IN MY OPINION, that's the only place he has the edge over Dirk. Now I don't think it's an OVERWHELMING margin and I don't think you go wrong with either one of these guys, but right now, I would have to go with Dirk.

[Murphy3]

thanks ma-gaga..the stats that you showed actually hurts your argument. we do see that KG is a better player at this point in his career but we also see where dirk is quickly approaching KG's numbers. Dirk won't average the same amount of assists simply because so much of the mavs game goes through nash and finley. Dirk is as good of a passer as KG. This is obvious when you see how little dirk turns the ball over.
He's better at handling the ball and better all around offensively. His assists aren't what KG's are, but that's expected because of the way the mavs offense is ran.
His steals and blocks are down but improving... yes, dirk's blocks are down this year compared to last..but that has alot to do with his ankle.

dirk's the better shooter...plays in control alot better than KG... KG is the better defender.

so yes, KG is better at this point in his career (like i've said repeatedly)...however, there is no way i'd trade dirk for KG. Like i said..i think it will be a toss-up by the end of the season..and dirk is the man by the end of next year

[MFFL]

That was one of the high points to the game Sat. Watching two of the most versatile and talented big men in the league playing against each other.

[ma-gaga]

<< thanks ma-gaga..the stats that you showed actually hurts your argument. we do see that KG is a better player at this point in his career >>



[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Both players are studs. I don't know which one will have a better career. The only reason I brought up the stats was to say that today, this moment, which one is a better player? KG gets the edge, and you've agreed with that. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] That's all I was trying to say.

2 years from now, who knows. KG could blow out a knee, and Dirk will be averaging 37 points a game, OR, Cuban trades Dirk to Houston for Steve Franchise, or he gets busted for child porn, or who knows. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Stats are just a means.

[Rod1975]

Dirk...because I said so....and because he is more versatile.
The numbers are only an indication of current production. If you plug Dirk into a team like minnesota where the offense would run through him first, his numbers would skyrocket.

[FineCubanCigar]

Kevin Garnett because he plays better defense, rebounds, and has far more raw athletic ability. I'd like to see them both in a Mavricks uniform and play the rest of the nba 2 on 5.

[Bayliss]

<< has far more raw athletic ability >>



Right now Garnett does play better defense and rebounds better. But I do not buy the argument that he has more athletic ability.

Example:

Dirk grabs the rebounds, puts it to the floor... dribbles 3/4 the length of the court and lobs a perfect alley-oop to Michael Finley for a layup. Seems like that's pretty damn athletic. Never seen Garnett start the fast break and finish it like that.

[FineCubanCigar]

who jumps higher?

[Bayliss]

who jumps higher?

Dan O'Brein?

[Hoopsmeister]

If &quot;athletic&quot; strictly means who can jump higher, then I would give you Garnett, but it seems to me that athletic is a much broader term. And in a foot race, I'm not at all sure I'd take Garnett over Dirk. And in a race down the court while dribbling a basketball--possibly in traffic--I'll definitely take Dirk over KG.

On the broader question, I would agree with those that say KG's consistency on the defensive end makes him still the slightly better player despite the fact that Dirk clearly has more offensive weapons. But I also agree that Dirk has the potential to raise that part of his game and become the better player within a season or two.

[Murphy3]

dirk has more basketball athleticism than KG..... this involves all different types of coordination and balance..not just speed and jumping ability.

Yeah, if we're looking for a guy that's gonna compete in the long jump, triple jump, and then run the 100 meter dash, i might take KG..but basketball athleticism..i'd say there probably hasn't been many if any more basketball-athletic 7'0 guys in the history of the NBA

and ma-ga..we're in agreement..slight edge to KG right now..but, i think we both see that dirk could and should be the better player soon

[reeds]

Dont put the term &quot;dribbling&quot; in with being athletic..Because Finley is very athletic, but the man cant handle the rock. JMHO

Garnett is more athletic than Dirk- no doubt in my mind. But if I were starting a team tommorrow...Man that would be a tough choice!! I might take DIRK!?

[giostar]

I love Dirk, and am happy to see him in a Dallas uniform... BUT if I had a draft today and had the second pick in the draft where I could pick any player in the NBA, I would take Garnett. Obviously the first being Shaq. But Garnett (IMO) is the second most dominating player in the league right now. Dirk is number 6 or 7...

[Fidel]

<< Garnett (IMO) is the second most dominating player in the league right now. Dirk is number 6 or 7... >>



Back to back games against the wolves:
Dirk has a combined 45 pts and 30 rbs.
Garnett has 38 pts and just 12! rbs.
No domination here.
Even Garnett and Smith combined just had two more rbs (32) in those games than Dirk.

[Fidel]

Perhaps Garnett is the better overall player right now, but Dirk just dominated the boards in those two games. And actually rebounding and defense should be where Garnett could still have the edge over Dirk.

[Murphy3]

actually, basketball athleticism..i would give the edge to dirk.

you're obviously very easily confused. I think it's a racist thing. You see the white athlete as incapable of being as athletic as a black athlete. Yes, Garnett may have more &quot;raw athleticism&quot;...but dirk has more &quot;basketball athleticism&quot;

and, personally, i would take dirk because they are virtually at the same level now..garnett having a slight edge ..but dirk has more future upside.

Is carl lewis a great athlete? yes...why doesn't he play basketball? probably because he lacked certain aspects of athleticism that would allow him to be a top athlete in basketball...(or maybe he just chose to pursue a different athletic venue).

It hurts when certain people have a very racist approach to defining athleticism. When you limit it to jumping and running..and assuming that the black athlete in general jumps higher and runs faster (which, in this case, KG does have the edge over dirk), ...when you limit it to just two factors, you are completely missing out on several other aspects of athleticism...such as different types of coordination.

swimmers and gymnists are obviously great athletes..many of them are probably more athletic than alot of NBA basketball players...however, there are probably many swimmers and gymnists that can neither run very fast or jump very high. Are they not athletic? of course not. However, if you don't understand what athleticism is and use the same definition that some of you are using to compare dirk to KG..then, by your definition, both swimmers and gymnists would be far inferior athlete to most basketball players

[MFFL]

My comment on the &quot;athletic&quot; thing. Dirk is smoother - his motions glide. That's the reason he can easily rebound a ball and dribble it down court without mishap. It's also the reason he gets open so often for that killer jumpshot. Garnett is quicker - he has a faster first step. That's the reason he is a superior rebounder and so hard to guard inside.

Both of them are great. I'm just glad we have one of them. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Murphy3]

of course..so am i.
However, some people just don't realize that there is more to being athletic than running and jumping.

I know that KG is one hell of an athlete..obviously....but it's time to recognize that Dirk can make things look easier than any other seven-footer ever. Once people stop going by simply the running and jumping definition, they'll realize how gifted dirk is..and they'll see how much potential and up-side he really has

[TheKid]

Well it took me one year and I truly think even right now Dirk has a slight edge over Garnett, rather I would take Dirk before Garnett. That's no slight of Garnett either.

[Murphy3]

if i had to pick between the two, i'd take Dirk as well. However, I think KG has a slight edge .... that will be gone by the end of the seaon though

[Bayliss]

Dirk's D might just be better than we think. After all, Kevin Garnett explodes in the game before the Mavericks, and then explodes again against New Jersey last night.

[Murphy3]

he's playing very good D right now...probably the best of any of the starters..nash has been playing solid D as well.