Shaq says he will play until he is 39 or 40 - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Tarzan · 10-09-2003, 03:59 PM

I think there is a simple solution to the officiating. Call a foul a foul. If Shaq gets fouled then call it. If Shaq commits a foul then call it.

Shaq Attack2 · 10-09-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Tarzan
I think there is a simple solution to the officiating. Call a foul a foul. If Shaq gets fouled then call it. If Shaq commits a foul then call it.

The problem is that the simple solution is not exactly simple to carry out.

dirno2000 · 10-09-2003, 04:03 PM

That sounds good in theory, but the NBA is a business first. Nobody wants to see Shaq foul out in the 1st quarter, or see him on the line 30 times in the first half.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2003, 04:04 PM

You cannot create room for a shot by using an arm or other part of your body to push someone from their defensive position whether they are moving or not. Thats one rule.

Dont tell me they've gotten rid of that one.

Murphy3 · 10-09-2003, 04:06 PM

How often do players use illegal arm bars when guarding shaq? Virtually every play.

It's like the NFL. Officials have always said that they could call a penalty on every play. Hell, they usually say that they could call a holding penalty on every play. But is it realistic to do so? What would it do to the game?

Shaq Attack2 · 10-09-2003, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
You cannot create room for a shot by using an arm or other part of your body to push someone from their defensive position whether they are moving or not. Thats one rule.

Not exactly. For example, it's perfectly legal for me to dribble the ball up court and use my left arm to create some space between myself and my defender, as long as it isn't excessive. It happens all the time and officials see it as clear as day. It becomes near impossible to back someone down to the hoop or drive inside for a basket if you can't protect yourself a little from other defenders.

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
How often do players use illegal arm bars when guarding shaq? Virtually every play.

It's like the NFL. Officials have always said that they could call a penalty on every play. Hell, they usually say that they could call a holding penalty on every play. But is it realistic to do so? What would it do to the game?

Exactly. There is a grey area with the rules in any sport. In the NBA's case, using your arm or hand a little is not illegal until it becomes excessive. The officials define excessive just fine in my book, but others may disagree.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2003, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
How often do players use illegal arm bars when guarding shaq? Virtually every play.

It's like the NFL. Officials have always said that they could call a penalty on every play. Hell, they usually say that they could call a holding penalty on every play. But is it realistic to do so? What would it do to the game?

How about the officiation in the NCAA? Because the refs call everything, there is no messing around. The rules are so much sharper than they are in the NBA, especially around star players. There is no reason at all to believe that the NBA has a grey area. The rules are clear and if advantage is given unfairly to one player for breaking the rules then it is a foul pure and simple. Either way.

Murphy3 · 10-09-2003, 04:16 PM

no, the refs don't call everything in college basketball. it's impossible to call everything. TJ Ford's already known for his NBA ball handling ability...he had the carrying the ball down to an NBA art while playing at UT

for shaq, the arm bar isn't the best example. not a bad one, but not the best. what would be better is how often do you see players attempting to move shaq with their lower body? plus, shaq is using his illegally as well.

it's impossible to call everything. many people believe that players allowed to get away with too much down low..it's not just the case with shaq, it's throughout the league. If you want to gripe at anyone, gripe at the detroit pistons when they were making their championship run. they're the ones that changed the game for the worse

Murphy3 · 10-09-2003, 04:19 PM

something that makes it very, very difficult to officiate in the NBA as compared to college ball is the skill, size, strength, and quickness of the athletes. They're simply on another level.
Increased size and strength obviously increase the physical nature of play in the NBA and make the job more difficult for the refs..

Psychedelic Fuzz · 10-09-2003, 04:23 PM

I might be in the minority here, but I'd rather have refs letting things slide than have some technical happy clown like Joey Crawford coming out and showing off to the point where he could alter the outcome of a game.

Murphy3 · 10-09-2003, 04:41 PM

you have to let some things slide..there's simply too many fouls to call. I wish they attempt to get rid of some of the overly physical play in the paint. But, that would both hurt and benefit a player like shaq.

Obviously, I'd like to see the traveling and carrying violations called on a consistent basis. that seems like perhaps the easiest issue to address.

LRB · 10-09-2003, 05:14 PM

While Shaq definitely does get fouled a lot he gets away with a tremendous amount more fouling others than he gets fouled himself. Percentage wise he is by far in the lead. All stars in the NBA get some form of the star treatment. Shaq's is just much more than others. And backing people down doesn't mean you get to run over them.

Murphy3 · 10-09-2003, 05:26 PM

LRB, i very seriously doubt that.

even befor shaq begins backing a player down, the defensive player is almost always illegally using arm bars or using their knee to try and gain leverage.

they go hand in hand.

LRB · 10-09-2003, 05:33 PM

Murphy that may be your view, but what I see is most of the contact is initiated by Shaq. Yea the defenders do use some illegal tactics, because the refs will allow Shaq to run right over them with no call or a foul on the defender if they don't. And the defenders get calls on them much more than Shaq gets called for a foul.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2003, 06:42 PM

I think we will leave it there. The fundamental argument seems to be based on facts that people can't agree on. LRB and myself see things differently than Murph, et al. We won't find any agreement here, but I urge people to watch Shaq playing especially in the last three years. Look at the types of calls and the number of calls. I will review old tapes I have of Shaq to see how he's knocked around too, but from what I have seen originally and upon review is that Shaq gets more swing because he is ineffective if the refs call him every time they should.

The argument about Shaq getting fouled more- people definitely foul him harder when they do, because coaches urge that; if you foul Shaq you foul him hard enough so that he will miss the shot and get freethrows.

Did you watch the Sacramento-Laker games in the Western Finals a couple of years ago? No one can deny that the officiation was uneven and horrible. There is a standard in each game, and that needs to be upheld.

LRB · 10-09-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Did you watch the Sacramento-Laker games in the Western Finals a couple of years ago? No one can deny that the officiation was uneven and horrible. There is a standard in each game, and that needs to be upheld.

Actually I'd love to see the NBA's star system of reffing go away. Get rid of David Stern, an absolute must is change is to be enacted, and replace him with someone with a reputation for more credibility in officiating. Say Vince McMahon of the WWE for example. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

dallas_esq · 10-09-2003, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Did you watch the Sacramento-Laker games in the Western Finals a couple of years ago? No one can deny that the officiation was uneven and horrible. There is a standard in each game, and that needs to be upheld.

Actually I'd love to see the NBA's star system of reffing go away. Get rid of David Stern, an absolute must is change is to be enacted, and replace him with someone with a reputation for more credibility in officiating. Say Vince McMahon of the WWE for example. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

I don't see this inconsistent reffing in any other sport. It is an accepted truth all over the NBA that star players get more calls, get away with more. I don't see how anyone could refute that. The better player you are, the more calls you get. The harder you go at the basket, the more calls you get.

MavKikiNYC · 10-14-2003, 07:48 AM

Sounds like Zen may be doubtful.

Shaquille O'Neal Has Bruised Left Heel
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: October 13, 2003

Filed at 9:20 p.m. ET

EL SEGUNDO, Calif. (AP) -- Shaquille O'Neal has a bruised left heel, an MRI disclosed Monday.

O'Neal sought the MRI because his heel hasn't improved since he injured it more than two weeks ago.

``I'm really not concerned at all about the injury,'' Los Angeles Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. ``I'm very surprised that he's got this type of an injury. Those are things that usually are minor.''

O'Neal participated in some half-court drills Monday, while Kobe Bryant only ran a bit as he continues rehabbing from offseason knee surgery.

``It's a disappointment for Shaq, if he's worked as hard as we've heard he's worked this summer to be in condition, that we haven't been able to build on that conditioning for the season,'' Jackson said.

The Lakers will hold a shootaround Tuesday in El Segundo before heading to San Diego for an exhibition game against Phoenix that night.

Jackson said he thinks O'Neal will play against the Suns. Bryant, however, isn't expected to play. He has to be back in Colorado on Wednesday for the second part of a preliminary hearing on the rape charges against him.

``Hopefully, he'll play a game before this week is up,'' Jackson said.

Bryant's next chance to get into his first preseason game will come Thursday and Friday when the Lakers host Cleveland, Phoenix and the Clippers in a four-team round-robin event.

Rookie Brian Cook will have surgery Tuesday to repair a fracture dislocation of his left ring finger. He is expected to be out a minimum of six weeks.

Cook, a first-round draft pick out of Illinois, averaged 1.5 points, 2.5 rebounds and 1.5 assists in 12 minutes in two preseason games.

Horace Grant is finding that his comeback is tougher than expected. He rested Monday because of a tight hip flexor, which Jackson attributed to ``a little bit of creakiness going on.''

Grant, 38, hasn't played since being released by the Orlando Magic last December. He played only five games with them last season.

``He'll find his way,'' Jackson said. ``There may be situations where he'll miss a game here or there.''

LRB · 10-14-2003, 08:46 AM

No surprise here.