Trade Rumors - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Hoopsmeister · 02-04-2002, 12:47 PM

from ESPN Insider

On why the Marc Jackson trade to Phoenix didn't go down:

A league source, on condition of anonymity, told ESPN Insider this weekend that Mavs owner Mark Cuban has been talking to the Warriors and has made a better offer than Phoenix's. According to the source, the Mavs are willing to offer the Warriors an unprotected first-round pick and $3 million in cash. That's the magic formula for the Warriors, despite the fact that the Mavs' pick will likely be much lower than the Suns', given their record.

I hope that league source is the kind that talks to Vecsey. I do NOT want Marc Jackson. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

mick · 02-04-2002, 12:55 PM

Not sure how accurate the rumor is, but let's look at it for a moment. I agree that Jackson is not the long term answer, but if this rumor is true then when won't be giving up anything for him. Just have to drop someone from the roster (Manning?)

Then, Jackson becomes trade bait next year for something better, maybe as part of a package.

If true, I would not dismiss it out of hand as long as Harvey and Najera are not part of the deal. (Obviously, Dirk, Nash, Fin would not be part of it).

mavsfan2121 · 02-04-2002, 01:53 PM

We would have to give up around 3.5 mil salary to make a deal work if a trade goes down I thin Eschmeyer would be the most likely to go as its hard to make the trade work anyother way unless GS were to involve more players..

if all it cost is esch a first and cash then I think dallas would do it as they could prob get more out of jackson then esch and the contracts are equal and it wouldnt have much effect on future FA plans...

Blonde Bomber · 02-04-2002, 03:08 PM

If we do not give up on either Najera or Harvey, I'm all over this trade.
We only lose cash and a useless 1st round draft pick.
I think he would help in the rebounding area and some added muscle in the middle.
He not something long term, but will be usefull this year.

Im for this trade...

madape · 02-04-2002, 03:39 PM

Apparently Jackson has a no-trade clause in his contract that allows him to veto any potential trade. He has a list of four teams he would consider going to, and Dallas isn't one of them. However, he is really pissed off about the Pheonix trade not going down. I think he would be willing to go just about anywhere else right now.

threadkilla · 02-04-2002, 04:04 PM

I haven't seen Jackson play, but from what I have heard, he is an outside shooter who isn't that good of a rebounder. Unless we are seriously trying to move Howard, it doesn't make sense. He is a little bigger then Howard, but otherwise he is like a Howard without as much offensive ability.

Last year's stats for Marc Jackson:

00-01 Golden State
Games - 48
MIN - 29.4
FG - ATT - 10.6 PCT - 46.7
FT - ATT - 4.0 PCT - 80.2
3PT - ATT - 0.5 PCT - 21.7
BOARDS - OFF - 2.5 TOT - 7.5
AST - 1.2
STL - 0.7
BLK - 0.6
TO - 1.9
PF - 2.9
PTS - 13.2

In fact these numbers look suspiciously like Juwan's numbers this year.

Hoopsmeister · 02-04-2002, 04:11 PM

Madape--he doesn't have a no-trade clause. But under the CBA, because Golden State matched Houston's offer and kept him over the summer, he has does have veto power over any attempt by them to trade him *this year* this summer, they can trade him whether he likes it or not.

Threadkilla, Jackson is listed at 6-10, Juwan at 6-9. He has no postgame and he's no better (and probably worse) a rebounder than Juwan. He averaged .51 blocks a game. A lot of reports are also that he's lazy and he let himself get out of shape over the summer just assuming he was going to get a good contract after last year. He's not going to beat out any of the 5 people ahead of him for playing time under Don Nelson.

We would have to give up somebody to get him (in addition to the pick and the cash) since we are over the cap. Best-case scenario, that person is Eschmeyer and Jackson takes his spot at the far end of the bench. He does have more talent than Eschmeyer, but has shown a lousy attitude. Since neither of them is going to play here, the trade is at best a waste of a pick.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-04-2002, 04:14 PM

ok, i don't understand this guy. he wants to go to teams where he will be involved in the offense... dallas isn't on there because he will be behind nash, dirk, fin, and howard, at least.

but this guy should not be demanding the ball ANYWHERE, let alone Dallas. apparently, his list includes, phoenix, indiana, orlando, and memphis. (yes, i said memphis!)

Phoenix? he'll be behind marbury, marion, penny
Indiana? miller, rose, o'neal, tinsley
Orlando? mcgrady, miller, hill (when healthy), and even armstrong
Memphis? gasol, battier, swift, dickerson (when healthy), williams

this guy won't even get shots on the teams he wants to go to. and why the hell does he think he's so special?

if he comnes in and we get him for nothing. that'd be cool. but he should not demand the ball. what a prima donna. one DECENT year in the league and he thinks he's michael jordan.

Hoopsmeister · 02-04-2002, 04:20 PM

Dirk
Nash
Finley
Howard
Hardaway
Wang

Best case scenario (from his point of view), he would be the 7th option on offense--and I'm not sure he beats out Griffin for that.

With the listed teams, he thinks he can start--Phoenix and Orlando have nothing inside, he won't be the first option, but he could probably start for them, Indiana has J. O'neal, but thinks they needa a banger to go with him, Memphis, I guess he thinks he can beat out Gasol or Wright (won't happen) for one of their 2 frontcourt spots. In Dallas, he'll be 6th in the big man rotation.

And yes, the guy does seem to have ego issues.

threadkilla · 02-04-2002, 04:27 PM

If he is "lazy", then we should pass on him. Lazy players don't play defense. We need a big man that is willing to work hard on both ends of the floor hustling and fighting for rebounds.

The only way I see this as a positive is if they have some way to move Juwan in a separate deal and get the type of defensive rebounder we need.

TheKid · 02-04-2002, 04:32 PM

Well if he plays like he did last year, he earned points. He normally worked hard for them and he didn't command the ball like alot of people think he did. However for whatever reason, everything that went down with that contract situation this summer, he has fell out of favor. So he's not wanted nor does he want to be in G. State after this year. If he gets on a team and works hard, he could be an asset, however like Meister said, even though he's probably more talented than Esch, he would get just as many minutes so why bother.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-04-2002, 05:22 PM

yeah, Kid, it's kinda weird. last year, everyone praised him for his hard work.

but apparently, he thought a huge deal was coming his way from Houston, and when that didn't happen, he got lazy and complacent...

plus, when you say "staying with the warriors is the worst possible scenario for me", something tells me you won't get much Playing Time.

Hoopsmeister · 02-04-2002, 05:26 PM

Actually, BBL, the reports I have seen say that he got lazy and was out-of-shape when he was making his free agent visits over the summer. Which was why everyone passed on him until Houston--which is desperate for big men help. Didn't they lose Mo Taylor for the year before they signed Jackson?

Big Boy Laroux · 02-04-2002, 05:50 PM

yeah, i think so, hoopsmeister.

complacency. you'd think if you wanted to make a lot of money, you'd continue to work hard...

MFFL · 02-04-2002, 05:50 PM

I can't imagine Jackson coming here. Maybe we are working on a multi-team trade.

Jackson turns down the Heat

The Heat had interest, but Jackson (who has veto power over any deal) opposed it: "They have (Alonzo Mourning) and Brian Grant, and I'm not the type of player that only needs to play a couple of minutes a game," he said.

Mavinator · 02-04-2002, 05:56 PM

Would definitely prefer Eschmeyer. At least he cares.

madape · 02-04-2002, 06:30 PM

I'm sure Mark Jackson could find some P.T. in the NBA development league. When you suck, you suck. Get over it and thank the lord you have a bench to sit on.

Hoopsmeister · 02-04-2002, 06:35 PM

<< Would definitely prefer Eschmeyer. At least he cares. >>

That's what I was trying to say at the start [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Jackson is a talent upgrade but given that he won't play anymore than Esch, at least Esch is a good locker-room and bench presence.

Murphy3 · 02-04-2002, 06:41 PM

i don't know..he doesn't do alot for me..
but, i guess we'll see.
i don't know how to react to how this team has played the past three games...

Murphy3 · 02-05-2002, 12:46 AM

i thoughtthe mavs were trading michael finley

threadkilla · 02-05-2002, 11:13 AM

Cuban was quoted in todays paper saying the Mavs have no interest in Jackson. I hope that is true. As far as Finley, he is very difficult to trade because he is a BYC 1 and has a trade kicker according to RealGM. I don't know all of the implications of base year compensation, but I think the salaries have to match within 15%. I have been wondering if we could work a trade with Atlanta to get the often injured Theo Ratliff. That guy would be a perfect fit for the Mav's, and I am beginning to wonder how long Atlanta is willing to wait for some production from him. Maybe a Finley and Bradley for Ratliff and Jason Terry.

TheKid · 02-05-2002, 12:40 PM

Would you really want to trade for a guy who is ALWAYS hurt? Ratliff didn't even start his career out as a starter and couldn't remain healthy with Detroit, Philly or Atlanta.. He's definately talented but I think he's along the lines of Camby, can be a fit for ALOT of teams, but for whatever reason neither can stay healthy. To trade them away for a guy with the exception of this year is ALWAYS there..

threadkilla · 02-05-2002, 12:58 PM

Those are good points. Ratliff has a history of injury. That is what makes me think he might be available for the right price. There would be risk involved. Personally I would rather have an injured Ratliff healing up for the playoffs, then a healthy Shawn Bradley not playing because he is lazy and unwilling to play his role. This team has a 33 - 14 record and Bradley has contributed nothing. With Finley injured certain players had an opportunity to show something, and they did. Moving Finley and Bradley for Posey and McDyess or Ratliff and Terry seems like an excellent idea. Improve at the 4 or 5 and bring in a serviceable 2 or 3.

TheKid · 02-05-2002, 01:12 PM

Well McDyss is a different story, I would probably be willing to do that in a HEARTBEAT.. I disagree about Bradley not contributing anything. He's had stretches when he's played he's done something but overall he hasn't really gotten the opportunities. After seeing what he did in the playoffs last year, I'd have to believe Bradley is a good person to have around come playoff time.

threadkilla · 02-05-2002, 01:25 PM

Of all of my basketball buddies I was the one that defended Bradley the most. After last year's playoffs I thought this team would be able to keep Booth and combined with Bradley, be VERY solid at the 5. But, now I am at the end of my rope with the Stormin' Mormon. I am damned tired of seeing mediocre players on the opposing team have career nights making dunks and easy layups. You know how dogs can sense weakness in other dogs. That is what makes 6' 4" players try to dunk on Bradley every time he is on the floor. We need a Ratliff type shot blocker who plays tough defense and rebounds and can get their offense from junk around the hoop.

mick · 02-05-2002, 01:30 PM

Best situation for Bradley is to be traded to the East where he can compete better.

madape · 02-05-2002, 03:44 PM

Bradley is the best shotblocker in the league. That hasn't changed. He can alter the game defensively like no other player in basketball. He was just about the only player to play consistently good in the San Antonio series last year, and if the Mavs want to advance far in the playoffs this year, they will need him to step it up again. This year, he just hasn't had the opportunity to play. whether it be from injury, personality issues, or inconsistent play. However, Nelson has stated openly that he is planning on getting Bradley back into the regular rotation in preparation for the playoffs. Nelson knows we need him. In fact, Shawn has been getting significant minutes lately and has been contributing big-time. Threadkilla's comments make me think that he really hasn't been paying attention the Mavs the last couple of weeks.

mick · 02-05-2002, 05:23 PM

The problem is that Bradley is not consistent, even over a series.
He has his moments and teases you into hoping he is about ready to break out, then disappears again.

I don't think anyone questions what he can do, you just don't know when he is going to show up. This is no different than trying to build around a guy who is always hurt or out on drug suspensions. The point is, if you are not there when you are needed, then you can't be counted on and shouldn't be in the plans.

threadkilla · 02-05-2002, 05:45 PM

I don't recall if Bradley was playing when Kelvin Cato had 18 points and 15 boards the other night, but that guy averages 7 points and 6.7 rebounds. If Bradley "can alter the game defensively like no other player" then why didn't he do either of the following.

A. prevent an under average center from more then doubling his season averages
or
B. Get off of the bench.

My point really isn't to bash Bradley Mr. Ape, but rather to hope for a situation that prevents this from happening. The mavs are soft in the middle. Every night some player has a career night. We can't let the Kelvin Cato's of the world get uncontested dunks all night long. The mavs played decent defense in the playoffs last year, and that is why they were able to get to the second round. Part of the reason was both Bradley and Booth stepped up and played very well. You can defend Bradley all you want, but he hasn't produced what we need from him and he better turn it up a notch or he will be riding the pine through the playoffs.

Bayliss · 02-05-2002, 06:59 PM

I have **never** been a Bradley apoligist BUT Kelvin Cato scoring 18 points and pulling 15 boards is not a direct result of Bradley's D.

I remember in that Houston game several times when Cato would get an easy dunk because Bradley would have to rotate over with weak side D stopping penetration. So if Cato dunks 3 times when Bradley is helping out on the weak side... is that Bradley's fault? Nope. It is the weak side defender's fault. And you cannot hold Bradley accountable for Cato grabbing defensive rebounds etc (which most of his rebounds were).

And Bradley the last several games: Houston, LAL, & LAC has played well.

Murphy3 · 02-05-2002, 07:05 PM

you're absolutely right..
cato probably scored 8 points against bradley that were the result of penetrating guards that bradley had to shut off the lane on.

however, you have to be able to understand the game to realize that

threadkilla · 02-05-2002, 09:40 PM

Do you guys see what I am saying here. I am not singling Bradley out. I am saying that no one should ever have an uncontested dunk if at all possible. This team is SOFT and has been that way for a long time.

Murphy3 · 02-05-2002, 10:02 PM

threadkilla, that's what i've been saying ever since the howard trade.. the trade made the mavs softer..
what in the hell good did the trade do for the mavs..nothing at all.
yes, they are soft that is why i wanted one of the antonio or dale davis here

dirk is toughening up..but he's not there..howard will never be there.. bradley has a mean streak when he's interested