For future Bobcats, look past big names

[MightyToine]

For future Bobcats, look past big names

Young candidates on list of available players

RICK BONNELL

Staff Writer


CHICAGO - Hey, Bobcats fans: Want Allan Houston? He's Charlotte's for the taking. So are Eddie Jones, Brian Grant, Kerry Kittles and Antoine Walker.

More likely, the Bobcats would be interested in Troy Bell, Keyon Dooling, Gerald Wallace, Tamar Slay and Jason Kapono.

Based on conversations out of the Chicago pre-draft camp, the Observer has confirmed which players eight NBA teams made available to the Bobcats, plus partial lists for several other teams. The Bobcats must select at least 14 veterans -- each off a different team -- when the draft is held June 22 or 23.

Predictably, teams are dangling huge salaries at the Bobcats, even if that means losing a high-profile player. For instance, the Miami Heat has left Jones and Grant -- both former All-Stars -- available. But Jones and Grant each will have salaries of $14 million-plus each of the next two seasons. So the only way the Bobcats would select one is to move him on via trade.

More likely, the Bobcats will select young, inexpensive players and hope they blossom with more playing time -- players such as Bell, a rookie point guard with Memphis, or Wallace, an athletic small forward who hasn't cracked the rotation with Sacramento. Kapono, a solid jump-shooter with Cleveland, also fits that description, as might Los Angeles Clippers restricted free agent Dooling.

Some other recent first-round picks who haven't contributed much weren't made available. The Clippers' Melvin Ely and Milwaukee's Marcus Haislip both were protected.

Hornets guard David Wesley also was protected. After the team moved, Wesley, who kept his home in Charlotte, had speculated he might be available to the Bobcats. However, New Orleans retained Wesley and his $4.9 million salary and left restricted free agent Courtney Alexander unprotected instead.

Size is the hardest thing to acquire in the NBA, and some is availableMilwaukee's Brian Skinner, Seattle's Vitaly Potapenko and Memphis's Jake Tsakalidis could all play center. Potapenko would be expensive next season at $6.1 million, but several scouts said he'd provide the toughness an expansion team usually lacks inside.

Available Players

With position, height and age

L.A. CLIPPERS: Matt Barnes*, F, 6-7, 24; Keyon Dooling*, G, 6-3, 24; Predrag Drobnjak, C, 6-11, 28; Eddie House, G, 6-1, 26; Josh Moore*, C, 7-2, 23

MEMPHIS: Troy Bell, G, 6-1, 23; Ryan Humphrey, F, 6-8, 24; Dahntay Jones*, G-F, 6-6, 23; Bo Outlaw*, F, 6-8, 23; Theron Smith, F, 6-8, 23; Jake Tsakalidis, C, 7-2, 25; Lorenzen Wright, C, 6-11, 28

MIAMI: Brian Grant, C, 6-9, 32; Eddie Jones, G, 6-6, 32; Loren Woods*, C, 7-2, 25

MILWAUKEE: Brian Skinner, C-F, 6-9, 28; Erick Strickland, G, 6-3, 30

NEW YORK: Shandon Anderson, G-F, 6-6, 30; Penny Hardaway, G-F, 6-7, 32; Allan Houston, G, 6-6, 33; Moochie Norris, G, 6-2, 30; Cezary Trybanski, C, 7-2, 24

SACRAMENTO: Gerald Wallace, F, 6-7, 21

SEATTLE: Calvin Booth, C, 6-11, 28; Jerome James, C, 7-1, 28; Richie Frahm*, G, 6-5, 26; Vitaly Potapenko, C-F, 6-10, 29

UTAH: Curtis Borchardt, C, 7-0, 23; Aleksandar Pavlovic, F, 6-7, 20

* Restricted free agent. If the Bobcats draft a restricted free agent, he immediately becomes an unrestricted free agent and his contract does not count against the Bobcats' salary cap. The team that loses that player is not allowed to re-sign him.



http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/basketball/nba/charlotte_bobcats/8912150.htm?1c

[jayC]

You have to have some quality players to fill out your roster. It wouldn't be wise to fill it out with a bunch of merry minimums. Walker may be a good fit in charlotte.

[LRB]

Charlotte would be only benefit from talking Walker if they needed to eat up salary and then be a player in the free agent market next year or plan on trading him before the trade deadline to a team wishing to dump salary. Talent wise they'd be better off choosing Fortson.

[madape]

Now you are being rediculous. Walker is a three time all-star who can average 20, 10, 4 for most teams. Fortson is IR fodder.

[LRB]

Walkers primary strength, really is his rebounding. Fortson is a hands down better rebounder than Walker ever was. Walker is one of the least efficient scorers in the NBA, so scoring 20 really doesn't mean that much when it takes almost 20 shots to do it. 90% of the players in the NBA could average 20 points per game if given enough shots. Walker is a good passer for a big man, but he needs to dominate the ball to do it. That means he will take the ball out of your point guards hands. While walker is a good passer and ball handler for a big guy, he's below average for a point guard. So you'll get assists from him at a high cost. Now lets look at defense. Walker is slow, has precious little vertical, doesn't have great height, doesn't have much bulk or strength, has good hands defensively, and decent, but certainly not good, technique. Nothing really outstanding. Fortson is slow, has precious little vertical, doesnt' have great height, he's a brute though with tons of bulk and strength, has ordinary hands defensively, and nothing special on technique. Neither player is really a attribute on defense, but at least Fortson is a physical presense.

Now look at shooting. Walker Walker couldn't hit the broad side of the barn from 15 feet 5 out of 10 times with no one in the same zip code as him. Walker is also a horrible finisher around the basket and is a FT shooter that will give Shaq a run for his money in a brick laying contest. Walker downright sucks at getting to the line. Fortson has a decent if not good medium range jumper. Despite his height and lack of vertical, Fortson can still finish around the basket fairly decent. Fortson is a very good FT shooter for a PF/C. Danny is very good at drawin fouls and getting to the line.

Walker is much better than Fortson at staying out of foul trouble.

Fortson makes a great roleplayer and is willing to accept that role. Walker sucks at being a role player and will pout at lack of PT and touches.

Overall, I'd take Fortson 9 times out of 10 if I was Charlotte if it was based on talent alone. And the 10th time I'd just not take either one.

[madape]

Originally posted by: LRB
Walkers primary strength, really is his rebounding. Fortson is a hands down better rebounder than Walker ever was. Walker is one of the least efficient scorers in the NBA, so scoring 20 really doesn't mean that much when it takes almost 20 shots to do it. 90% of the players in the NBA could average 20 points per game if given enough shots. Walker is a good passer for a big man, but he needs to dominate the ball to do it. That means he will take the ball out of your point guards hands. While walker is a good passer and ball handler for a big guy, he's below average for a point guard. So you'll get assists from him at a high cost. Now lets look at defense. Walker is slow, has precious little vertical, doesn't have great height, doesn't have much bulk or strength, has good hands defensively, and decent, but certainly not good, technique. Nothing really outstanding. Fortson is slow, has precious little vertical, doesnt' have great height, he's a brute though with tons of bulk and strength, has ordinary hands defensively, and nothing special on technique. Neither player is really a attribute on defense, but at least Fortson is a physical presense.

Now look at shooting. Walker Walker couldn't hit the broad side of the barn from 15 feet 5 out of 10 times with no one in the same zip code as him. Walker is also a horrible finisher around the basket and is a FT shooter that will give Shaq a run for his money in a brick laying contest. Walker downright sucks at getting to the line. Fortson has a decent if not good medium range jumper. Despite his height and lack of vertical, Fortson can still finish around the basket fairly decent. Fortson is a very good FT shooter for a PF/C. Danny is very good at drawin fouls and getting to the line.

Walker is much better than Fortson at staying out of foul trouble.

Fortson makes a great roleplayer and is willing to accept that role. Walker sucks at being a role player and will pout at lack of PT and touches.

Overall, I'd take Fortson 9 times out of 10 if I was Charlotte if it was based on talent alone. And the 10th time I'd just not take either one.

Fortson is a worthless, fouling piece of crap who uses thuggery and dirty play to pull down boards. Walker is one of the most skilled and versatile big men in the NBA. His inside / outside game is one of the best in the league. He's one of the best passing big men in the league. He's an above average rebounder. He's a tremendous talent, one of the most talented in the NBA in my opinion. He didn't fit here in Dallas for one reason, he didn't have a position... a situation worsened by a coach who asked him to play in a different spot every week. Let him be a power forward and he'll put up Chris Webber type numbers, just like he has most of his career. Almost every team could use a guy like Walk.

You are obviously making him the scapegoat for a disappointing Maverick season. That's fine. I can respect that opinion (even though I don't agree with it). But moronic statments like Fortson being the more talented player paint your point of view for what it really is: Reactionary hatred. Fortson doesn't have a lick of actual talent. Your emotions have taken control of your common sense.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: madape



Fortson is a worthless, fouling piece of crap who uses thuggery and dirty play to pull down boards. Walker is one of the most skilled and versatile big men in the NBA. His inside / outside game is one of the best in the league. He's one of the best passing big men in the league. He's an above average rebounder. He's a tremendous talent, one of the most talented in the NBA in my opinion. He didn't fit here in Dallas for one reason, he didn't have a position... a situation worsened by a coach who asked him to play in a different spot every week. Let him be a power forward and he'll put up Chris Webber type numbers, just like he has most of his career. Almost every team could use a guy like Walk.

You are obviously making him the scapegoat for a disappointing Maverick season. That's fine. I can respect that opinion (even though I don't agree with it). But moronic statments like Fortson being the more talented player paint your point of view for what it really is: Reactionary hatred. Fortson doesn't have a lick of actual talent. Your emotions have taken control of your common sense.

Madape, while I do blame Walker for much of the Mavs dissappointing season, it's hardly new that I don't think much of Walker's game. I've always seen him as one of the most overrated players in the league.

As for his supposed inside/outside game, I've yet to see it on anything that could be considered in the most kind of all lights regular basis. Walker is one of the worst outside shooters to ever take more than a handful of outside shots to have played in the NBA. It not so much that he sucks, it that he sucks and doesn't even realize it. As for his inside game is a a far below average finisher near the basket. What Walker does have is a total lack of conscious for taking shots no matter how horrible he is in comparison to others on his team.

Walker does pass well for a big man but it comes at a high price. He must dominate the ball to get the assists and that stagnates most any offense because of his huge liability as an extremely inefficient scorer. Also Walker causes many turnovers for him and his teammates because of this. Just way too high of a price for the limited benefits IMO.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think that Fortson is a great or even good player. I just believe that he's a better role player than Walker and that all Walker is really suited for is being a role player.

I've never liked Walkers game, so my stance is hardly reactionary. Rather I just don't see enough talent in Walker to justify starters minutes because playing Walker starters minutes will most likely gravitate a team more towards the lottery than towards a championship.

[kg_veteran]

Let's not get carried away. Fortson is NOT more talented than Walker.

I think Walker could be a good fit on the right team. In Boston, Walker had Pierce and a bunch of roleplayers/scrubs around him. If the Celts had had one more quality player, I think they could have been pretty good.

Walker needs to be in a situation where he can play the PF spot only and play next to a shotblocking center -- pretty much the same thing that Dirk needs. If he had that, I think he could be a pretty good player for a team.

Looking out at the teams in the NBA now as they are currently constructed, it's tough for me to find too many good fits. But that doesn't mean one won't materialize.

[madape]

Madape, while I do blame Walker for much of the Mavs dissappointing season, it's hardly new that I don't think much of Walker's game. I've always seen him as one of the most overrated players in the league.

As for his supposed inside/outside game, I've yet to see it on anything that could be considered in the most kind of all lights regular basis. Walker is one of the worst outside shooters to ever take more than a handful of outside shots to have played in the NBA. It not so much that he sucks, it that he sucks and doesn't even realize it. As for his inside game is a a far below average finisher near the basket. What Walker does have is a total lack of conscious for taking shots no matter how horrible he is in comparison to others on his team.

Walker does pass well for a big man but it comes at a high price. He must dominate the ball to get the assists and that stagnates most any offense because of his huge liability as an extremely inefficient scorer. Also Walker causes many turnovers for him and his teammates because of this. Just way too high of a price for the limited benefits IMO.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think that Fortson is a great or even good player. I just believe that he's a better role player than Walker and that all Walker is really suited for is being a role player.

I've never liked Walkers game, so my stance is hardly reactionary. Rather I just don't see enough talent in Walker to justify starters minutes because playing Walker starters minutes will most likely gravitate a team more towards the lottery than towards a championship.

I agree with some of what you've said. Walker certainly isn't a complementary role player. He's a guy that needs the ball in his hands for the majority of possessions. I don't think we were able to really determine the effectiveness of Walker playing with Dirk and Nash last year, mainly because Nelson insisted on playing a dozen different lineups, none of which included a center. I still think that using Walker propoerly, with a consistent and well-defined role would make the Mavericks a scary, scary team. The problem is that I don't think it's possible to do while still playing a true center. Playing either Dirk or Walker at the five spot causes major problems.

Walker showed the willingness to curtail his offensive game for the betterment of the team... He was a career 20ppg scorer before coming here. Towards the latter part of the season, he was shooting less than ten shots a game. He did what we needed him to do: rebound, distribute, get putbacks, curtail his outside shooting. He basically did everything that Nelson asked him to do, and he did it relatively well.

That being said, I am now of the opinion that our best starting lineup is as follows: Nash, Daniels, Finley, Dirk, Shawn. This means that if Walker is to have a role here, it will be as a sixth or seventh man. If he's OK with that, then we should be a nightmarish team next year. If not, we need to find out what we can get for him.

It sounds like he's not OK with that.

[sike]

walker is five times the player Fort is...

the skill set Walker brings to the floor is wonderful....just not well honed...he is far too undisciplined a player to fit with the mavs...but lets not allow our dislike of how he fit with the mavs to so cloud our objectivity that we compare him to Fort

[MightyToine]

From someone who has watched Walker play since his boston days, let me tell you that Fortson did play alongside Antoine as a member of the Celtics several years ago.

Fortson "impressed" the Celtic Brass soooo much.....He Got TRADED. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[Drbio]

Fortson "impressed" the Celtic Brass soooo much.....He Got TRADED. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

The Celtics brass traded away another peice of crap too as I recall.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: Drbio

The Celtics brass traded away another peice of crap too as I recall.

Eric Williams is not a piece of crap, DrBio. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

[EricaLubarsky]

Im upset by how poorly some of the members of this board remember Fortson. He may be talented and aggressive but for every flop he had where he shot free throws, there were 3 or 4 more times when he was beaten off the dribble (and then fouled the player), or got beaten because of height (and then fouled). Walker may be a poor fit and his talent might be overrated, but he has appropriate speed and height for his role and he can score. When left open Fortson missed more shots than Shaq missed freethrows and without defensive support he was beaten more often than even LaFrentz. His rebounding was impressive but he is no more than what Nellie made him- a trick and a ploy. When teams countered him with decent centers, he faded away. Other than his contract (and his possible attitude problems) he isnt that bad to have around but he is not better, more tradable, or more talented than Walker.

[Drbio]

No MT, but your boy Antoine "Suck Arse" Walker very much is.


I'd rather have Walker than Fortson because he offers better trade options and is a better player, but I'd rather stick razor blades in my jock strap and run a marathon before suffering through another season with AWalker on the Mavericks. As a matter of fact, I'd rather glue my eyes shut with crazy glue, get 100,000 paper cuts on my arse, jump naked into a huge pile of thumbtacks, clean all the bathrooms at the AAC with my tongue and eat a heaping helping of brown steaming dog barf than suffer through another season of Walkers crap stinking play as a Maverick.

[Drbio]

I'd rather stick razor blades in my jock strap and run a marathon before suffering through another season with AWalker on the Mavericks. As a matter of fact, I'd rather glue my eyes shut with crazy glue, get 100,000 paper cuts on my arse, jump naked into a huge pile of thumbtacks, clean all the bathrooms at the AAC with my tongue and eat a heaping helping of brown steaming dog barf than suffer through another season of Walkers crap stinking play as a Maverick.

Just to be fair...other than that I might keep him and let him rot on the bench.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Drbio
No MT, but your boy Antoine "Suck Arse" Walker very much is.


I'd rather have Walker than Fortson because he offers better trade options and is a better player, but I'd rather stick razor blades in my jock strap and run a marathon before suffering through another season with AWalker on the Mavericks. As a matter of fact, I'd rather glue my eyes shut with crazy glue, get 100,000 paper cuts on my arse, jump naked into a huge pile of thumbtacks, clean all the bathrooms at the AAC with my tongue and eat a heaping helping of brown steaming dog barf than suffer through another season of Walkers crap stinking play as a Maverick.

Damn.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Damn.

DrBio always did have a way with words. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Kid California]

Anyone hear the latest on the trade with bobcats and knicks? Its reported that the bobcats would select aaron mckie and other players to send to the knicks for harrington, mutombo, and possibly thomas? Walker does make sense because Mckie has the big contract while walker has the one year, and harrington and mutombo also have one year contracts i believe.

[Poindexter Einstein]

CHA is going to pursue a plan in which they willingly trade for $20M in bad Knick contracts? That may be some Knick fan's wet dream, but dude it wont happen in a million years. There is NOTHING in it for the Cats except crap.

[Stressboy]

PE,

I explain it in the T-mac thread, but I think the Knicks are really after Walker and they have about 14mil in 1 year deals and a 1mil TE to make it happen. Othella, Mutombo, Amaichi, Trybanski are all 1 year and they might throw in Frank Williams which would be a great PG for the bobcats. The knicks lose nothing since these guys don't play much and Walker can be traded at the deadline easier than all of them. It also adds a lot of talent to a team that really has made more moves than I thought possible. As for the bobcats. They can keep who they want and push the rest to Utah as part of a Lorezen Wright deal. You can bet that Utah will give the bobcats a #1 to get a coupld of good players with short contracts i.e. Kittles, Jerome James, Wright(2 years, but most needed) and they won't mind getting a Mutombo and Othella if the bobcats don't want to keep them, but that is not a bad front line to run out your 1st year.

Stressboy