After O'Neal has gone to the Heat...

[Dallasworld]

TWO TRADES TO MAKE BIG D A CONTENDER

Dallas must trade Walker (the best trade bait of the team) and Finley (while he still has value). For all the FIN fans I want to say that keeping him has no sense. The big three doesn't exit since the departure of Nash. Finley's role in the team has decrease the last two years and Dallas has a young core (Daniels, Harris, Howard) that needs more minutes and the starting spot available. So Finley must be traded.

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (6.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 20.1 minutes)
PF Jerome Williams (6.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.1 minutes)
SF Scottie Pippen (5.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 17.9 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (6.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.4 minutes)
(resigned $5-6) SG Jamal Crawford (17.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.1 apg in 35.1 minutes)
Chicago receives: SG Michael Finley (18.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.6 minutes)
PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes)
PG Luis Flores (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -13.7 ppg, -12.4 rpg, and -6.2 apg.

Dallas trades: SG Michael Finley (18.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.6 minutes)
PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes)
PG Luis Flores (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Eddie Robinson (6.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 51 games)
PF Jerome Williams (6.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 68 games)
SF Scottie Pippen (5.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 23 games)
PF Tyson Chandler (6.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 35 games)
(resigned $5-6) SG Jamal Crawford (17.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.1 apg in 80 games)
Change in team outlook: +13.7 ppg, +12.4 rpg, and +6.2 apg.

Dallas could also add a future first

TRADE ACCEPTED


Why for Chicago?
Because they get the veteran player with experience who can drive the team into the play off. Besides, the Bulls rids of two of their worst contracts (Robinson and Williams). Crawford may live the team with no compensation.

Why for Dallas?
It seems that Cuban and Nellie changes their minds and want young player with a lot of potential and skills to develop around Nowitzki and the rest of the veterans of the teams. How about Chandler & Crawford? A nice big man who can play PF-C and really good guard who can play PG-SG. I know that taking back the awfull contracts of ERob and JYD is a negative point, but Cuban can afford it.


THEN...

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.4 minutes)
Rights of Pavel Podkolzine
Dallas receives: PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
(resigned $10) C Erick Dampier (12.3 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 32.5 minutes)
C Evan Eschmeyer (12.3 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 32.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.6 ppg, +1.1 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

Golden State trades: PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
(resigned $10) C Erick Dampier (12.3 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 32.5 minutes)
C Evan Eschmeyer (12.3 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 32.5 minutes)
Golden State receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 66 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 58 games)
Rights of Pavel Podkolzine
Change in team outlook: -4.6 ppg, -1.1 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

Dallas could also throw $3 millios cash to sweet the deal

Why for Dallas?
A great veteran PG (an idol in Dallas besides the play off against Sanct in 2003) and a real C with size is the answer.

Why for Golden State?
The Warriors could get nothing in return for Dampier because he is an unrestricted FA. NVE wants out of GS and they rid of their worst contract (Eschmeyer). Besides they get an all star player in Walker who has a huge expiring contract a great big man project (Podkolzin) and two decents back ups with decents contracts.

TRADE ACCEPTED

The Mavericks starting line up & roster would be...

PG: NVE / Harris
SG: Daniels / Crawford / Stackhouse
SF: Howard / Pippen
PF: Nowitzki / Laettner / JYD
C: Dampier / Chandler

On IR list: Abdul-Wahad / ERob & Eschmeyer

The expirings contracts of Laettner and Pippen could also be trade bait in the february deadline

What do you think?

[aexchange]

this makes dallas a borderline .500 team.

borderline.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: aexchange
this makes dallas a borderline .500 team.

borderline.

and we were 22 games above .500 last year and that was a terrible year.

[Joey]

Stack is already talking about not wanting to be the 6th let alone the third option in his own position. Chicago would laugh in Dallas' face at this one.

BTW-welcome to the board. Keep the creative juices flowing.

[uweblab]

I like the two trades in theory, but it alot of players and a huge overhaul to undertake for Cuban. Somehow I would like to see the Mavs get T. Chandler from the bulls, he's at that age where he could break out and we could reap the benefit of him sitting on the bulls bench the last few years.

[DubOverdose]

I'd rather keep the team like it is. I don't think getting rid of Fin is a good choice.

[WoodyPaige4pres]

don't think i'd be doing those trades. Van Exel, Stackhouse, Laetner and Pippen will play 82 games. TOTAL. thats a DL nightmare right there.

[kingrex]

This is my first post since coming back from vacation. I come back to find that the big 3 is no more. There's no need to trade Finley. Maybe I'm being sentimental, but I'm afraid that if the Mavs diminish the core of their team anymore, then they run the risk of losing the best of what the Mavs have been about. Pippen, Williams & Chandler do not make a good core replacement. I realize Chandler is an intriguing power forward talent, but I'm not convinced he has the head to be a great player in this game.

As for the Van Exel and Dampier trade, I like that much better. It is doubtful that the Warriors would do that though, but you never know.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by: aexchange
this makes dallas a borderline .500 team.

borderline.

And you think so because???

If both those trades would happen together the Mavs would be far better off then before. We´d basicly trade Fin and Walker and a couple role players and spares for Chandler, Crawford, Williams, NVE and Dampier. We´d probably be a little weaker perhaps at SF, assuming Fin plays that position if he stays. But with Howard, Pippen and Stack even that might be untrue. We´d be stronger at the guard positions and we´d be much stronger at C and even at PF cause Dirk could play that position exlusively. So overall these trades would be great for the Mavs. We´d be adding talent without giving up our young guys. And we´d get rid of both Walker and Fins horrible contract. We´d definitly be much better then .500 especially if Harris gets it going and takes over the PG spot by midseason.

That said I don´t see why Chicago and even GS would do the trades. They really don´t get much.

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: Fidel

And you think so because???

If both those trades would happen together the Mavs would be far better off then before. We´d basicly trade Fin and Walker and a couple role players and spares for Chandler, Crawford, Williams, NVE and Dampier. We´d probably be a little weaker perhaps at SF, assuming Fin plays that position if he stays. But with Howard, Pippen and Stack even that might be untrue. We´d be stronger at the guard positions and we´d be much stronger at C and even at PF cause Dirk could play that position exlusively. So overall these trades would be great for the Mavs. We´d be adding talent without giving up our young guys. And we´d get rid of both Walker and Fins horrible contract. We´d definitly be much better then .500 especially if Harris gets it going and takes over the PG spot by midseason.

That said I don´t see why Chicago and even GS would do the trades. They really don´t get much.

<start diatribe>

i've never really understood the fascination by posters on this board for players on other teams that haven't done anything in their careers.

what has chandler done? squat. i hate to break it to everyone, but chandler isn't a center. he won't ever be a center. and there's even some debate in chicago of whether or not he's really a power forward. he's rail thin, he's injury prone, and he's known as a chronic underachiever around the league. yes, he's loaded with potential. but we need chandler like i need a bad STD.

what has dampier done? a big bag of nothing. the guy is known as stone hands around the league, has done nothing besides this year, and has career averages of
8pts and 7 boards a game. hell, if we wanted a guy with career averages of 8 pts and 7 boards, we could play danny fortson.

what has crawford done besides jacking up shots like they are going out of style? nothing.

when was the last time pippen played even 70 games in a season? the 1999-2000 season. i guess in trading for pipp, we'd get a guy who could keep wahad company.

the other players are complete spares that are being thrown in.
jerome williams is an african american version of najera. if we wanted another overpaid, under utilized energy guy i GUESS you would want to take on the junk yard dog.
eddie robinson? he gives me gas. and he should give you gas as well. his game is offensive. and for a team that struggles not to lose 50 games every season he can't even make it off the bench.

this trade proposal needs to go into the bad trade proposals go to heaven thread, because this sucks. we give up our locker room leader in finley, and you expect to replace finley with offensive blackholes in stackhouse and howard? how many times did you see howard pass the ball last season? not even get an assist, i'm talking about just passing the ball! he doesn't. its not in his vocabulary. and stack may very well be worse than howard when it comes to being a human vacuum on offense. your utter dislike of finley is noted and well documented, but come on lets at least try to get $.50 on the dollar for finley instead of giving him away. if you want to get rid of finley it should be for either: contracts that are expiring, established good players with value, or young players with upside. we definately aren't getting any good contracts, we don't get any players with good value, and the only player we get with any upside has serious question marks attached.

in the process of getting rid of finley, we get rid of bradley, and a great expiring contract in walker.

somebody kick me in the crotch now.

<end diatribe>

that being said, i like nve and i wouldn't mind him coming back, but he's 32. and we can get NVE without giving up finley as well.

as far as why this makes us a barely .500 team ...
we've completely gutted our chemistry on this team. nearly half your roster comes from teams that lose 40-50 games a year, year in and year out. they don't know how to win, and chemistry tends to go a bit farther than actual talent at times. and with this trade its even questionable if we are getting better talent.

[kingrex]

edit

[kingrex]

Aex~

The question still remains does this Mavs team need a center other than Bradley?

If you say yes, then who should they get for the upcoming season? My first choice would have been Shaq, but since that deal seems to be out, who's the next best center? I know Dampier hasn't "done anything", but we don't have a guy in the middle that has "done anything" either. So, if we can't get a guy who has "done something", then the next best thing is to get a guy who might be able to "do something".

That's where these trade proposals arise. I agree I don't want to give up Fin, but giving up Walker to get Dampier is a risk I'm willing to take.

By the way, nice use of the word "diatribe".

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: kingrex
Aex~

The question still remains does this Mavs team need a center other than Bradley?

If you say yes, then who should they get for the upcoming season? My first choice would have been Shaq, but since that deal seems to be out, who's the next best center? I know Dampier hasn't "done anything", but we don't have a guy in the middle that has "done anything" either. So, if we can't get a guy who has "done something", then the next best thing is to get a guy who might be able to "do something".

That's where these trade proposals arise. I agree I don't want to give up Fin, but giving up Walker to get Dampier is a risk I'm willing to take.

By the way, nice use of the word "diatribe".

good question. and the answer is i'm not so sure with the new landscape of basketball. there are two centers in the league. shaq and ming. the only center you need a really big body to defend is shaq, and i'm not convinced that anybody can defend him. that being said, everybody else out there who is masquerading as a center can be defended pretty successfully with what most "experts" call 4's. what i mean is that you can defend dampier just as well with kenyon martin as you could with a jamal magloire for example. since center's run a premium, its my belief that you get better return on investment plugging a more versatile 6'9"-6'10" power forward player into the 5 spot than you do trying to force a 7ft. stiff in the 5 spot just because he's 7ft. tall.

i wouldn't mind seeing finley go for a player like kmart, ratliff, etc. a banger that can protect dirk. i do not call dampier a banger. he's a stiff who had a career year. and he'll regress to his stiff like ways a year from now. that being said, its next to impossible to get a finley for a kmart, ratliff, or brand, but just because it isnt feasible it doesn't mean we should be content to throw him away for a bunch of next to nothing spares.

the perfect player the mavs should have made a run for is okafore. i'm a bit disappointed they didn't do what it took to get him.

[Joey]

I agree with aex, I also agree with kingrex...nice use of the word diatribe.

[Fidel]

i've never really understood the fascination by posters on this board for players on other teams that haven't done anything in their careers.

what has chandler done? squat. i hate to break it to everyone, but chandler isn't a center. he won't ever be a center. and there's even some debate in chicago of whether or not he's really a power forward. he's rail thin, he's injury prone, and he's known as a chronic underachiever around the league. yes, he's loaded with potential. but we need chandler like i need a bad STD.

what has dampier done? a big bag of nothing. the guy is known as stone hands around the league, has done nothing besides this year, and has career averages of
8pts and 7 boards a game. hell, if we wanted a guy with career averages of 8 pts and 7 boards, we could play danny fortson.

what has crawford done besides jacking up shots like they are going out of style? nothing.

when was the last time pippen played even 70 games in a season? the 1999-2000 season. i guess in trading for pipp, we'd get a guy who could keep wahad company.

the other players are complete spares that are being thrown in.
jerome williams is an african american version of najera. if we wanted another overpaid, under utilized energy guy i GUESS you would want to take on the junk yard dog.
eddie robinson? he gives me gas. and he should give you gas as well. his game is offensive. and for a team that struggles not to lose 50 games every season he can't even make it off the bench.

this trade proposal needs to go into the bad trade proposals go to heaven thread, because this sucks. we give up our locker room leader in finley, and you expect to replace finley with offensive blackholes in stackhouse and howard? how many times did you see howard pass the ball last season? not even get an assist, i'm talking about just passing the ball! he doesn't. its not in his vocabulary. and stack may very well be worse than howard when it comes to being a human vacuum on offense. your utter dislike of finley is noted and well documented, but come on lets at least try to get $.50 on the dollar for finley instead of giving him away. if you want to get rid of finley it should be for either: contracts that are expiring, established good players with value, or young players with upside. we definately aren't getting any good contracts, we don't get any players with good value, and the only player we get with any upside has serious question marks attached.

in the process of getting rid of finley, we get rid of bradley, and a great expiring contract in walker.

somebody kick me in the crotch now.

<end diatribe>

that being said, i like nve and i wouldn't mind him coming back, but he's 32. and we can get NVE without giving up finley as well.

as far as why this makes us a barely .500 team ...
we've completely gutted our chemistry on this team. nearly half your roster comes from teams that lose 40-50 games a year, year in and year out. they don't know how to win, and chemistry tends to go a bit farther than actual talent at times. and with this trade its even questionable if we are getting better talent.

Finley career ast: 3.8 Fin last year ast: 2.9
Stackhouse career ast: 4.1 Stack last year ast: 4.0

So much for the black hole argument.

Besides that I think that Fin is the better player, that´s why I said we might be a little weaker at SF. Depends mostly on Howards play IMO. But if you compare Howard/Stack/Pippen to Fin there should be at least some improvement at the defensive end.

The rest of your tirade is pretty unrealistic IMO. Sure those guys we get aren´t world beaters and it would be nice to get productive players from really good teams for Walker/Fin. It aint going to happen though. Finley has a horrible contract, that´s why I think Chicago might not even make the proposed trade. As it is right now we definitly need help at the center position. If you can come up with something better then Dampier let us know. Guys like Boozer are simply out of reach for the Mavs, Shaq is a pipe dream and I´d hate to see the Mavs go into next season with Dirk at the 5 again, or with totally unproven rookies such as Podkolzine and Mbenga.

Sure you don´t have to trade Fin to get Dampier. You could only make the GS trade and go with that. It´s just my opinion that if Chicago would be stupid enough to give up both Chandler and Crawford for Fin and they even throw in Williams (who I think is better then Najera) and Pippen you have to go for it. Otherwise you´d be stuck with Fin for the rest of his contract, and he won´t get better or younger.

As for the chemistry argument. I think that goes out of the window at the moment where Nash leaves. The big 3 are no more and the Mavs are allready in a soft rebuilding mode. Getting rid of Walker should be good for team chemistry. Even if we don´t do any more trades with all the new guys we have this is obviously a completely different team then last years. They`d need to find chemistry anyways.

I think if both trades went down we´d be looking at a 50+ wins team with a clear leader in Dirk. They´d not be a contender cause we would rely heavily on relatively unexpirienced guys like Daniels, Howard, Harris, but you still have NVE, Stack, Dirk, Leattner, Dampier, Crawford, JYD and Chandler and maybe even Pippen. To me the resulting team would be a good compromise between total rebuilding and still trying to be competitive. The departure of Nash automaticly put us into rebuilding mode it´s just a question how you mage it IMO. With our cap situation we won´t be able to land really decent FA`s in the forseable future so trades and draft picks are the only way to go. Again if you see any better (realistic) deals for Walker let me know.

[kingrex]

I agree with many of your points Fidel, however, you might be underestimating the Finley-factor on this team.

I agree that he will diminish his skills (if he hasn't already), however, he is still a leader for this team and model for the younger guys to follow (regarding professionalism and class). If the Mavs bring in too much of a different class of player, it could be detrimental to the development of the younger guys.

Maybe, I'm overstating it a little bit, but right now I don't think the Mavs would lose too much for what they might gain by trading Finley. I suppose, we will never truly know.