Did Kerry cheat at the debates? (Drudge) - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Drbio · 10-03-2004, 10:29 PM

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN OCT 03, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX

DEBATE MYSTERY: DID KERRY HAVE CHEAT SHEET?

Section 5, pages 4-5 of the binding "Memorandum of Understanding" that was negotiated and agreed upon by both political campaigns states:

"No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by either candidate.... Each candidate must submit to the staff of the Commission prior to the debate all such paper and any pens or pencils with which a candidate may wish to take notes during the debate, and the staff or commission will place such paper, pens and pencils on the podium..."

So what did Dem presidential contender John Kerry take out of his jacket as he approached the stage [with his back to the auditorium's audience]?

What did Kerry place on the podium?

Video replays of the Kerry maneuver played all weekend long on the internet.

[A tight zoom analysis of the Boston.Com feed shows Kerry pulling a mysterious item his jacket [14 seconds into video, after commerical]. Kerry appears to unfold some sort of paper seconds later, at his podium.]

A top Kerry campaign source explained to the DRUDGE REPORT late Sunday how Bush supporters were once again trying to distract.

"Kerry did not cheat," said the Kerry insider. "This is more lies from Republicans, who are hoping for a quick change of subject away from the president's performance, and the new polls."

When pressed on the fact that even brandishing a pen from his jacket would have violated debate rules, the Kerry staffer laughed, adding, "See you at the inauguration, Drudge".

Developing...

reeds · 10-03-2004, 11:32 PM

republicans grasping at straws.. I suppose that is why Bush lost? Or at least this will draw the attention away from that fact..Watching that debate, It looks like Bush should have had some cheat sheets..Maybe then it might have been a fair fight..Instead it appeared Bush looked periodically ill at ease defending the war and poorly prepared to explain his record on national security? Thats a shame..

Drbio · 10-03-2004, 11:37 PM

It is your >OPINION< that kerry won.....it is not a fact by any stretch.

Drbio · 10-03-2004, 11:37 PM

Yeah reeds....those republicans at Boston.com are just plentiful. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

Drbio · 10-03-2004, 11:38 PM

The issue here is not whether or not Kerry needed a cheat sheet, but that he violated the binding agreement. That speaks volumes of his lack of character. Yet another stone on the balance against Hanoi John.

LRB · 10-04-2004, 05:53 AM

Whether or not Kerry did not adhere 100% to the agreed upon rules of the debate, speaks to Kerry's character. It is not an excuse for why Bush did not do better. If John Kerry cannot be trusted to keep his word in adhering to to the agreements for a political debate, it is very likely that Kerry will not be able to be trusted in to keep his word about other things, like say seeing the situation through in Iraq. Kerry is already bankrupt on character, this would do irrepreptible harm if proven true. What is amazing is the reported callousness of the Kerry staffer. I'll wait on more information before making my decision if this is true or not. However I'm shocked at how Kerry supporters are just dimissing Kerry's cheating if true as being not only OK, but a "dirty trick" by the Bush camp to even bring it up.

kg_veteran · 10-04-2004, 09:23 AM

The answer to EVERY accusation against a Democrat is, "That's just a smear attack by the Republicans."

I think this story is important, NOT because I want to make excuses for Bush, but rather because there SHOULD be a simple "yes" or "no" answer which speaks to the man's character. If the answer is "yes" (that Kerry cheated), shouldn't he have to explain why?

Mavdog · 10-04-2004, 09:32 AM

A pen is a "tangible thing" prohibited by the agreement?
LMAO. Taking notes would be prohibited? too funny....
-------------------------------------------------------------
DEM FLASHED 'WRITE' STUFF AT DEBATE

By GERSH KUNTZMAN

October 4, 2004 -- Was John Kerry trying to pull something at the debate last week?
That question was burning up the Internet yesterday after a slo-mo review of the footage showed the Massachusetts senator taking an object out of his right pocket before the first question.

Was it a cheat sheet — as some conservative bloggers claimed — or was it something innocuous?

Either way, it would violate the debate rules agreed to by both campaigns: "No props, notes . . . or other tangible things may be brought into the debate."

Many blogs offered links to the "Pocket-gate" footage. One, INDC Journal, even posted frame-by-frame stills purporting to show Kerry pulling out a notecard and placing it onto the podium.

But the mystery was solved when The Post reviewed a Fox News Channel feed from Thursday's debate: Kerry pulled out . . . a black pen.

Kerry campaign spokesman David Wade remained angry at the bloggers' guilt-by-insinuation.

"The right-wing attack machine will say anything to steal a debate do-over," he said.

"We plead guilty to having a pen."

The Bush campaign did not comment.

Murphy3 · 10-04-2004, 09:40 AM

I haven't seen it just yet, but noted political analyst and liberal, Gordon Keith, mentioned that it appeared that Kerry was unfolding 'something' on the podium after he had reached into his jacket.

Dooby · 10-04-2004, 09:51 AM

Is it a big deal? No. If it were W, would the Democrats be making a big deal of it? Yes.

My take: It doesn't matter what it was, the rules said not to bring anything into the debate (BTW, materials were provided so candidates could take notes) and Kerry did. Kerry's campaign negotiated the rules and decided to ignore them. Is that appropriate? No. Did it make a difference in the debate? If it was a pen, the answer is "Certainly not." If it was talking points on a piece of paper, then the answer is "Possibly, but not a significant difference." Regardless, why bother agreeing to rules if you don't plan on complying? It makes Kerry look like a jerk.

But it won't matter to anyone that isn't already voting for Bush.

kg_veteran · 10-04-2004, 10:31 AM

Quote:

But it won't matter to anyone that isn't already voting for Bush.

Probably true. The die-hard Dems wouldn't care what Kerry did, because they hate Bush. The "swing voters" will never even hear about it, for the most part.

Epitome22 · 10-04-2004, 11:06 AM

The partisanship here is now bordering on the ridiculous.

As that leftist rag the New York Post pointed out, Kerry's secret weapon was a black pen.

Is this what the right has been reduced to? There have to be thicker straws to grasp at then this.

Since Dooby has taken the luxury of proposing what would happen if the situation were reversed, I will too.

If it had been Bush who was seen pulling something out of his pocket that the left had jumped only to find out the item in question was a devious black pen, and instead of admitting what a folly it ws to grasp at such straws, towing some line about character and following the rules, they would be laughed out of the room.

In fact, I don't even want the right to quit on this. I want them to go for broke. Pengate will at least remind sensible americans that loony partisanship affects the right as deftly as it affects the left.

Drbio · 10-04-2004, 11:11 AM

First of all....kerrys spin machine has said it was a pen. Others have said it was a note or something that had to be unfolded. Personally, I could care less. The issue is not one relating to the object itself, but kerry's inability to stick to the rules that he negotiated. The man simply cannot be trusted to keep his word. It could have been a mint for all I care. He cannot keep his word.

Those who insist on trying to spin this as Pengate or who try to trivialize this as "it was just a note" or whatever are attempting to shift the focus from where it belongs. The focus is on kerrys ability to keep his word. He cannot. He's shown it consistently. He can't remeber what his word is anymore because of all his waffling back and forth on issues. The man simply cannot keep his word.

knowitall · 10-04-2004, 11:11 AM

The character of a man. Taking us into a needless war. Now that's a "dirty trick". If Kerry did have notes, at least it's obvious he knows the proper use of intelligence.

Dooby · 10-04-2004, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Epitome22
The partisanship here is now bordering on the ridiculous.

As that leftist rag the New York Post pointed out, Kerry's secret weapon was a black pen.

Is this what the right has been reduced to? There have to be thicker straws to grasp at then this.

Since Dooby has taken the luxury of proposing what would happen if the situation were reversed, I will too.

If it had been Bush who was seen pulling something out of his pocket that the left had jumped only to find out the item in question was a devious black pen, and instead of admitting what a folly it ws to grasp at such straws, towing some line about character and following the rules, they would be laughed out of the room.

In fact, I don't even want the right to quit on this. I want them to go for broke. Pengate will at least remind sensible americans that loony partisanship affects the right as deftly as it affects the left.

Let me be clear. If it were W, would the Democrats be making a big deal of it? Yes. Particularly if it were a piece of paper. "Bush needed a crib sheet. Yada yada yada." Bush can't remember thing swithout writing them down. Yada yada yada."

Now, I said it wasn't a big deal. Yet you insisted on bringing up my name. I am not sure that is appropriate. And I hope that most people know me well enough to know I would have been critical of Bush if he'd done this, if only because it would have been a distraction.

I GO OUT OF MY WAY TO NOT COME ACROSS AS A PARTISAN HACK IN THIS PLACE AND I AM GETTING SICK OF THIS.

Epitome22 · 10-04-2004, 11:28 AM

I apologize. I got a little testy. The tin-foil hat mentality of the left and now fringes on the right are just driving me bonkers.

Drbio · 10-04-2004, 11:32 AM

epitome- that was true class. refreshing class. Thank you.

Seriously though, do you think it is appropriate for kerry (or Bush) to bring in things in violation of a signed agreement? It may seem trivial, but I am interested in your view on this.

Mavdog · 10-04-2004, 01:18 PM

The agreement states that each candidate "may take notes during the debate on the size, color, and type of paper each prefers and using the type of pen or pencil that each prefers. Each candidate must submit to the staff of the Commission prior to the debate all such paper and any pens or pencils with which a candidate may wish to take notes during the debate, and the staff of the commission will place such paper, pens and pencils on the podium..."

So each may bring their writing choice without violating the agreement, the question (if there is one) is if the commission didn't put them on the podium like they were to do, or if Kerry didn't provide them before the debate.

Lvubun1 · 10-04-2004, 04:09 PM

So stupid things have gotten this petty, it was a pen. Check out the video from Foxnews posted on a right-wing website(of all places)

http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/20...ver-cheat.html

Nice try though.

Lvubun1 · 10-04-2004, 04:13 PM

Now as a look closer, Bush looks like he is the ONE pulling out a piece of paper. Lets the see the outrage......

Drbio · 10-04-2004, 06:02 PM

If that can be substantiated he should be roasted. If you cannot abide by the rules, then it speaks volumes. Maybe there was a llophole or somesuch that we aren't aware of, but if either one of them (as I posted above) cannot abide by a negotiated written and signed agreement, it speaks to their character. What was pulled out is of no consequence.

dude1394 · 10-04-2004, 08:35 PM

I believe it was a pen that had an lcd display in it. James Carville and Michael Moore were feeding him fantasy's of summits to dream about. As Hugh Hewitt says....If it's not close they can't cheat...

And they will, brotha' they will.

Epitome22 · 10-04-2004, 11:03 PM

Nice one Dude. The Dems didn't cheat, but the Republicans sure wish he did. retreating with their tail tucked between their legs after their president recieved a sound thrashing at the debates, they reached out to grasp any sense of dignity they could muster, and all they ended up with was....

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/KerryPen.jpg

A black pen

I hereby present to you the official tin-foil hat award. small, but malleable and soft enough that you can share it with Matt Drudge, Hugh Hewitt and the rest of the losers who were anxious and pathetic enough to latch onto the sad affair that was pengate. Props to Power Line for being above the kool aid drinking affair.

dude1394 · 10-04-2004, 11:04 PM

It's technically a cheat, I don't care much about it not did the bush camp. But so what it's only about ink after all.

Epitome22 · 10-04-2004, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
It's technically a cheat,

It would have been much classier and face saving if the right tin foil fringe, yearning for scandal, had just simply bowed out instead of ruining reputation by staking it on a pen.

But if it means that much to you, get behind it. Write a letter saying "As the party of values, we in the GOP will not tolerate our opponent bringing his own writing utinsil to the debate. It's a matter of principle!"

Drbio · 10-04-2004, 11:16 PM

It is not about the object that he brought. it is about him not keeping his word.

dude1394 · 10-05-2004, 01:42 AM

It would have been even classier if he hadn't been so cavalier about the 35 page agreement he signed that he wouldn't have done it. Like I said, I don't care much about it. I don't think the pen shows much about his character except as a metaphor for his personal lack of convictions.

mavsman55 · 10-05-2004, 06:54 AM

Honestly, why would Kerry have brought a pen if there was no paper to go along with it? Was he writing on his podium?

Usually Lurkin · 10-05-2004, 07:17 AM

I will take my tinfoil hat and wear it proudly.
There are a couple of stories out there about Kerry having a light colored pen, or notes in his right hand. This is obvious in the most recent videos that show the black pen in his left. Since he had just shaken hands with Bush, we can very safely assume that Bush passed him some kind of note. My guess is the note said something like, "you win tonight", giving Kerry the confidence to deliver his flip-flops like a true statesman-politician. Rather than eke out a slight victory and raise expectations for W. in the next debates, Bush's campaign managed to eke out a loss (everyone agrees this was on style not substance). This will lower expectations for Bush in the next debates. The lower expectations raise the chances for Bush to "knock one out of the park" in the next couple of debates, in which a win either at the town hall or on domestic issues will shut the democratic fluff machine down completely.