Universities must allow military recruiters on campus

[Drbio]

Honey is overated.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by MavKikiNYC

And yet discrimination against women, racial minorities and homosexuals takes strikingly similar forms, and has strikingly similar corosive effects.

I note you do not mention the protected category of religion, which is itself a chosen behavior/ "lifestyle".

A fair point about religion, Kiki, in terms of it being a "protected class" under the Constitution. Still, and I know that some people may disagree, but I think there is a difference between who/what you worship and who you have sex with. Sure, they are both choices, but that's where the similarity ends, in my opinion.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

A fair point about religion, Kiki, in terms of it being a "protected class" under the Constitution. Still, and I know that some people may disagree, but I think there is a difference between who/what you worship and who you have sex with. Sure, they are both choices, but that's where the similarity ends, in my opinion.

I guess if we added "sexual congress" as one of the protected rights in the constitution it might be a better argument.

[mcsluggo]

I remember WAY WAY back in elementary school, I think it was third grade. Each student was given the assignment to give a presentation in front of the class about an interest of theirs, or something they really liked doing. I believe my "presentation" was about how I liked to play soccer, som kids spoke about going to redskins games. Some girls spoke about horseback riding and figure skating lessons.

Edmund spoke about his favorite method for folding napkins. Mary spoke about playing football. (she was the fastest kid in the class, and was usually picked as one of the first players in football or soccer, or whatever)

ten to fifteen years later I found out that both Edmund and Mary were gay. They weren't "gay" in third grade, because there was no such thing. It was impossible in that context because (at least in my case and for all I know, everyone I knew) we were all a-sexual or perhaps non-sexual. The mere concept of having sex with someone either never occured in the wildest imagination, or was simply too oogy to describe, male OR female companion. Just plain ugh. So, we didn't have any "gay-dar" per se, we didn't know that they seemed "gay", Edmund just said his "s" sounds kinda funny, didn't play with other boys much, and Mary was tough as nails and DID play with boys, rough.

So:
Were these two just "naturally gay"?

Or did their characteristics just make them "prime targets" for the gay culture once they got old enough?

Or were they simply already enchanted by the "gay mistique" in third grade, and targeting themselves in that direction?

Or some other explanation I haven't thought of? (I'm open to suggestions.)



(BTW, these really were my classates-- napkin folding presentation and all! )

[chumdawg]

You should include Option Four:

They were adopted and raised by gay parents.

[dude1394]

I don't have much insight as to why they decided to become homosexual but certainly they felt emboldened to try homosexuality (possibly even encouraged) by the recent cultural acceptance and promotion of same.

[Drbio]

Since homosexual behavior by definition is deviant, it is therefore not natural. I call horsepoo.

Bring on the nature vs nuture bullcrap if you want. There is nothing natural about gay sex.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

A fair point about religion, Kiki, in terms of it being a "protected class" under the Constitution. Still, and I know that some people may disagree, but I think there is a difference between who/what you worship and who you have sex with. Sure, they are both choices, but that's where the similarity ends, in my opinion.

Actually, KG, you raise an interesting point there. IMO, it's reductivist to characterize religion as 'who/what you worship' and sexuality as 'who you have sex with', and to compare the two concepts, religion and sexuality, on that distinction.

Religion is, of course, far more than who/what a person worships. Religious beliefs manifest in an individual's morals and values as well as his/her actions and behaviors, not just who/what a person professes to worship or devotes his/her life to.

Likewise, the implications of sexual identity extend well beyond who a person has sex with (as well as how). Sexual identity can affect who a person is able to bond with emotionally, who he/she is capable of sustaining a relationship with, who he/she is capable of forming a family with....in short, with whom an individual is capable of pursuing life and happiness.

Of the two, religion and sexuality, I'm of the belief that it is far easier to change one's core religious beliefs than one's core sexual identity. It's easy to grasp the importance of constitutionally protecting religious beliefs, which makes it that much more glaringly inconsistent not to do the same for sexual identity.

One other thing, though this is probably something for another thread: you alluded to both gender and race. I infer that you're angling toward a "biological basis" justification for constitutionally protected special classes. There are some who can make a pretty interesting argument that the concept of "race" is not a biologically-based concept at all, rather that it is a socially and culturally based. (Think: Jason Kidd.) To the extent that one accepts that line of thinking, then of the three "special classes"--gender, race, religion--only gender remains as a biologically-based class. And even that one isn't necessarily immutable anymore (Think: Felicity Huffman in "Transamerica". )

BTW, I sincerely appreciate the temperance with which you express your point of view. Even if our perspectives diverge sharply, it at least makes an exchange possible if the language used isn't extreme, or harsh, or demeaning, or borderline hateful. It certainly makes me want to reciprocate that kind of consideration. We may never fully accept each other's pov, but we may both be enriched for thinking more expansively.

[Jeremiah]

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