Johnson angered by Dirk's frustrated comments - ESPN.com - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Big Shot Rob · 05-01-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlelibo

Does anyone think that a player who shoots 37% from beyond the arc might help this team? He still collects his salary from the Mavs and his name is Michael Finley

I am not saying this to rub it in.

But God bless Michael Finley. He has suffered from bouts of lack of confidence. Pop told him to just keep shooting and not to worry about the consequences because the only consequence was that he was going to shoot the ball more.

He made it out of his slump and is really helping the Spurs. Without Fin, I don't even want to speculate where the team would be.

I know he was so important to Dallas for many years. He still remembers those years with much fondness. I really feel that there is a part of Finley who will always be a Maverick, even if he happens to get a ring in SA.

rmacomic · 05-01-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I agree with that. Dirk needs the mindset that he's going to take over. But damn, AJ needs the mindset that the Mavs must have Dirk take over or it's not going to do a damn bit of good. Dirk wanting to take over without the Mavs having a concerted effort to get him the ball just doesn't do much good.

It has to start with AJ and his inept ability to run an offense.. It has to be Dirk then taking over.. It has to be Stack, Howard, and Terry getting Dirk the ball...

It's not as simple as some of you are making it. It's not "Dirk just needs to get pissed". I sat there and watched Dirk work his ass off trying to get in position for an entry pass repeatedly on Sunday night only to see him repeatedly not get touches for long stretches of time.

It would be alot easier if it just came down to Dirk wanting to take over the game... Unfortunately, it's not. That's not how the offense is being ran...

Hell, in game three, Dirk scored 8 quick points but missed a shot and then didn't see the ball for a month and a half.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Murphy3 again.

Great point. I think you sum it up nicely, you can't be a star if the coach won't let you.

Rhylan · 05-01-2007, 01:42 PM

But Murph, wasn't that your primary complaint about Nellie, too?

I would say that AJ is much better at dancing with the one that brung him than Nellie is. Back in the day, Nellie would post up NVE all night long if he thought that was the best matchup - that's the epitome of taking what the defense gives you.

What I see is Avery calling for sets periodically during the game, and I guarantee you that 9 out of 10 offensive sets in the Mavs' playbook have Dirk as a primary or secondary option on the first pass. He's not getting it enough, and when he is getting it, he's being a wuss. My favorite example...

Game 2. Dirk on the right wing 1 on 1 with Monta Ellis. Ellis would be the second shortest guy on my rec team. Mavs clear out. Dirk takes a 3 and bricks. Rhylan yells, "Dirk, don't be a wuss" from section 115.

Why didn't he take Ellis down low?

Anyway, I don't see why Avery is the culprit here when he's neither Dirk nor the guys responsible for getting Dirk the ball. Right now it's like a bad business deal, both ends aren't holding up their side of it. Guards or Dirk. He's admitted himself that he's being taken out of his comfort zone, and it's causing him to take more difficult shots when he does have the ball, and give up on plays too early when he doesn't have the ball. As long as you have a "take what they give me" attitude, you're not going to correct that. Case closed.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 01:47 PM

Why not take Ellis down low? Well, many times, he has. However, a few things happen when he backs down..

1. He probably has to kick it out and establish better position. What are the odds that he gets the ball back?
2. He probably gets doubled. What are the odds that:
a. he passes it to someone out on the perimeter that shoots a three that actually does a poor job of hitting threes
or
b. what are the odds that someone actually cuts to the rim when he's doubled?

I'm not taking responsiblity away from Dirk. I'm saying that the responsibility needs to be shared if you want Dirk putting up 30 a night. He's not getting enough touches right now to where you should expect that he'd put up 30. When he does get touches, many times, the ball is forced out of his hands.

Now, at times, he's not doing enough with the ball once he gets it. Sometimes he does settle for jumpers. Sometimes he misses shots that I'd sure as wish he'd hit. But, he's shot the ball well in the past three games. I'd like for it to be ever so slightly better, but his shooting percentage isn't the problem. He needs more looks. He needs better looks. He needs to find a way to attack more.

Some of that is not nearly as much in his control as it is in the control of the guards and of AJ.

As for complaining about not getting the ball to the hot man.. Well, I probably did complain about that with Nellie as well as with AJ.. but for different reasons. In Nellie's system, it was take the first open look regardless of where it is on the court or who's taking it (for the most part). With AJ, it's more controlled. He has his matchups that he wants to exploit. In both situations, they had/have a tendancy to not get the ball to the hot man. Dirk started off with 8 quick points and then struggled to get a guard to look his direction because it's AJ's philsophy that the Mavs can attack off the dribble with their guards and get to the rim at will. Well, if Dirk's the one that's hot, that makes it more likely that he can be hot yet not touch the ball for long periods of time.

Now, I'm not saying that Dirk shouldn't share some of the blame. He should. However, putting it solely on his shoulders is misplaced. Plus, it just deflects some of the attention about what needs to happen to actually improve the situation. The Mavs used the balance attack throughout much of the latter half of the season to beat teams. When it comes time to actually need one player to take over to win the game..well, when was the last time the Mavs actually called upon one player to win the game? Doesn't it become a possibility that the team is actually used to playing a specific style and that they get used to their responsibilities and freedoms on offense that they don't make the right decisions with getting the ball to the player that's most capable of taking over? To me, that is part of the case. I think that blame should be shared pretty damn equally between the guards, Dirk and AJ... As the coach, I'd expect AJ to know better...

I am by no means trying to say that Dirk doesn't deserve some of the blame. But 99% of the blame is going his direction. Everyone is ready to gripe at him without truly assessing the situation. Hell, the biggest problem the past few games has been the Mavs getting torched on the perimeter (also partially Dirk's fault) and primarily the guards wasting 18 seconds of the shot clock before ever doing a thing on offense... and just a pissload of TO's in the 4th that led to points for GS in game 4.

alexamenos · 05-01-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

He probably has to kick it out and establish better position. What are the odds that he gets the ball back?

<<0%

rmacomic · 05-01-2007, 02:02 PM

Is it too late to sign KVH to a ten day?

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

As long as you have a "take what they give me" attitude, you're not going to correct that. Case closed.

Here's my problem with that... I believe that the "take what they give me" attitude is that of AJ. It's not just Dirk. I believe that it's what AJ has preached offensively since day 1. Why do you think the Mavs have never really developed an identity on offense other than being the team that can play any style? It's because AJ has preached the "take what they give me" attitude. But, for some reason, it's pissing AJ off now. Hell, that is his attitude towards offense.. It's his style for the team to be versatile enough to win games by taking what the other team gives you... If they make it their sole purpose to take away Dirk, then that means that they're giving you something else. That's what AJ wants to exploit. That has always been his style of coaching.

So, what does it mean when AJ goes off on Dirk? It means that AJ's style of 'taking what they give you' isn't working and that he knows that Dirk going off and taking over on his own at times is the only way that the Mavs can advance.

dude1394 · 05-01-2007, 02:06 PM

And why didn't josh get more shots in the second half.

Quote:

Where did Howard go?

After such a strong start, Josh Howard practically disappeared offensively in the second half of Game 4. Howard hit 9 of his first 12 shots in the first half, playing all but a minute and a half.

He didn't miss a minute of the second half but attempted one shot, a 20-foot jumper he missed. He didn't take a shot in the fourth quarter.

"They did a good job of really zeroing in on him in the second half," Avery Johnson said. "We've got to find ways to get him the ball, and he's got to do a really good job of finding the gaps and working both sides of the floor."

Note avery's comment. 1 shot for josh?? He's got problems baby.

Rhylan · 05-01-2007, 02:16 PM

This is why it doesn't add up for me... they were "zeroing in" on Josh? Well, shouldn't that open Dirk up? Terry? Bueller?

So now we're presuming Golden State has the defensive firepower to shut down two all-stars? The truth is, the Warriors have learned how to handle Dirk in his nouveau wuss form.. if you let him drift in the first half, front him and run a double at him before he gets the ball, you know he'll only be in the game enough in the second half to get a few putbacks and jack up some threes. Focus on Howard. Terry's mind is gone and Stackhouse can only get you so much. Game over.

Murph is right about the Mavs' inability to repost. Of course, the player in the post has to maintain his position to warrant the repost. And, again, since Dirk is drifting weak side so much, who is going to be over there to cut to the basket when he gets doubled?

Lor20 · 05-01-2007, 02:17 PM

dirk played really good in q1 last game and then in q2 avery switches and sticks him at center!? what was that all about? The only thing i can think off is that damp is actually still hurt. but if that is the case why dont they tell us so we atleast understand why he does that? The fact that he dressed willis up that game tells me damp was hurt but why not play willis for a few fouls then? seriously, he cant do that much worse than diop on offense and on defense he just has to hit the guy who is driving, im sure he can do that for 4 or 5 minutes a game at least.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

This is why it doesn't add up for me... they were "zeroing in" on Josh? Well, shouldn't that open Dirk up? Terry? Bueller?

So now we're presuming Golden State has the defensive firepower to shut down two all-stars? The truth is, the Warriors have learned how to handle Dirk in his nouveau wuss form.. if you let him drift in the first half, front him and run a double at him before he gets the ball, you know he'll only be in the game enough in the second half to get a few putbacks and jack up some threes. Focus on Howard. Terry's mind is gone and Stackhouse can only get you so much. Game over.

Murph is right about the Mavs' inability to repost. Of course, the player in the post has to maintain his position to warrant the repost. And, again, since Dirk is drifting weak side so much, who is going to be over there to cut to the basket when he gets doubled?

Zeroing in on Josh simply meant putting Jason Richardson on him.

littlelibo · 05-01-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lor20

dirk played really good in q1 last game and then in q2 avery switches and sticks him at center!? what was that all about? The only thing i can think off is that damp is actually still hurt. but if that is the case why dont they tell us so we atleast understand why he does that? The fact that he dressed willis up that game tells me damp was hurt but why not play willis for a few fouls then? seriously, he cant do that much worse than diop on offense and on defense he just has to hit the guy who is driving, im sure he can do that for 4 or 5 minutes a game at least.

Damp is hurt for sure... every time they show him, he has a huge ice pack on his shoulder. I still think they need to keep Dirk at the PF and not center.

Mav Addict · 05-01-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the kavorka

Either

1) Dirk is too weak on the low block
2) No one can pass him the ball in that position
3) Avery Johnson is retarded

Most definitely 1 and 2...not so sure about number3.....

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 02:30 PM

It's obvious that Dirk prefers to post either at the elbow or out high... which is still fine considering he's a high percentage player from there.

Flashman · 05-01-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by come_on_now

Actually, I feel bad for you hard core basketball fans. You should be able to enjoy your favorite sport without this crap. If they started doing this in football I think I would literally cry. And it's the ONLY thing that keeps me from being a crazy ass hoops fan. My logical brain can't digest the inexplicable rule changes/blindness/stupidity whatever the reason is they are so consistantly inconsistant.

You didn't happen to see Super Bowl XL, did you?

V2M · 05-01-2007, 05:32 PM

From Slam Online:

"On Collapsing

A plea and a forewarning to Avery Johnson on the brink of disaster.

by Ben Collins

–Note: I feel the need to qualify this by saying that I think Avery Johnson is a great coach and I think he has a long, illustrious career with many championships ahead of him. But this is three games worth of collective frustration in watching the team that his system led to 67 wins. I’d just wish he’d take into account what others had to say.–

In the hours leading up to a night that could become infamous, we have come to this. A broken 67-win team facing its first true adversity is finding it impossible to regroup. The cracks are becoming more visible and the Dallas Mavericks are shattering seemingly overnight.

There is no offense to speak of. There is no defense to speak of. The team’s leader and to-be MVP of the NBA sounds defeated and resigned to this team’s demise to a 42-win eight seed. And on the eve of what could be the most embarrassing night in Dallas sports history, there are rumblings of in-fighting.

And Avery Johnson, the NBA’s reigning Coach of the Year, the only person who can truly fix this problem – the only person whose job it is to fix this problem — has decided to buckpass.

“I wasn’t the best of players and didn’t have the best skills, but you were not going to shake my confidence,” he told a group of reporters in the American Airlines Center this morning. “I’m tired of hearing about how they’ve taken him out of his game and any lack of confidence. You’re not supposed to have that, all right?”

In Johnson’s diatribe disguised as a press conference, the third-year coach never directly referenced Dirk Nowitzki, but backwardly referred to him incessantly. It reads as if he is starting a rumor.

This was more blind call-out than guided wake-up call; more confidence-rattling than motivation-stirring. Whatever you call it, it was completely ineffective.

Nowitzki has never been the outspoken type. It is well-documented that he tries almost too hard in postgame press conferences to never provide bulletin board material to the other team. It has become a detriment to his image and is the reason he was shaken earlier in the season when Dwyane Wade believed Nowitzki was continually slighting the Miami Heat in the media.

Nowitzki’s Monday post-practice comments — “I got to take what they give me and they don’t really give me a lot” — aren’t exactly fighting words. But Johnson should know by now that Nowitzki’s fight comes only on the court and never in the locker room.

But Johnson has opted instead to bicker and feign an attempt to rile up a team that has been outcoached as much as it has been outhustled in this series. Johnson has consistently ignored the calls from every member of the common media – both local and national, from Charles Barkley to Lang Whitaker – to play commonsensically. Instead of employing the rotation that won his team a decade-best 67 games and a Southwest Division Championship, the Mavericks coach went with a futile attempt to cater to Golden State’s tempo.

After four games and one win over a 40-loss team, Johnson is too stubborn, too pretentiously persistent to stray from his master plan. It is costing his team a legitimate chance at its first NBA Championship and shaming a budding franchise.

Mavericks any-other-day starting center Erick Dampier has played a combined four minutes in the previous two losses. With Dampier out of the lineup, Nowitzki is forced to uncomfortably slide over to the center position. This racks up quick fouls on Nowitzki. This does not allow him any room to operate in the paint, whereupon he is immediately collapsed and faces a helpside defender who would otherwise be sticking to another wide open seven-footer underneath the basket. This forces Nowitzki to become the primary rebounder. This allows Al Harrington, a bigger defender, to guard Nowitzki instead of Dampier, and moves 6’8” Stephen Jackson back to covering wing players like Josh Howard. This exaggerates the tempo of the game to a pace in which the more talented, but less athletic Mavericks cannot keep up. This disallows the use of the pick-and-roll and elbow game to which Nowitzki has become accustomed. This puts Dirk Nowitzki in places on the floor that he rarely saw in this year, his best season as a pro.

This, of all things, takes this year’s Most Valuable Player and makes him an average player. And Johnson’s last quote today insinuates that maybe he thinks Dirk is nothing better than that.

When asked if he doesn’t see the confidence in Nowitzki in shootaround, Johnson repeated this twice: “We’ll figure something out.”

So Avery Johnson might bench the league’s Most Valuable Player because he has proven woefully inadequate in finding a way to get him open?

But maybe you’re right, Avery. Maybe Dirk should be talking with a little harsher tone. Maybe he should be more aggravated. Maybe he should show it. With all the facts lined up, here, he should be showing some emotion at how stagnant this team has looked.

And he should be showing that emotion towards you. You have failed to recognize a simple strategy, playing either Dampier DeSagana Diop almost all 48 minutes, that every NBA analyst in the country has noticed long before you. Even worse, you have recognized fully what every analyst an assistant coach has continually told you, but you are too tied to a gameplan to bother to change it.

It is, after all, this team, not Dirk Nowitzki alone, who has lost seven of its last eight playoff games. To thrust all this on a player that you have put in an almost impossible position to succeed is not a pep-talk. It is cowardice.

Do not take away from what is actually happening here, sir. No award gives you immunity and you need only to look at Mark Cuban’s previous business decisions to recognize that. An owner does not break up a 67-win team. An owner fires a coach who cannot win when it counts.

So tonight, when you watch your players take the floor for what could be the last time this season, go into it knowing this: it is not Dirk’s reputation that is on the line here.

It is your job."

left texas · 05-01-2007, 05:38 PM

Great article, and how true. I have loved Avery as a coach, but I think his hard headness is costing this team. Let's hope he understands this tonight.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 05:38 PM

Now here's an article putting too much blame on AJ and not enough on Dirk... There is a happy median. AJ has done a miserable job this series. Dirk has only been ok. Both of those two need to step up their games.

Big Shot Rob · 05-01-2007, 05:48 PM

I admit--I am disappointed in Avery.

Ridiculing Dirk is not the way to go.

(Hence--my new sig).

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 05:59 PM

The problem with ridiculing Dirk is that he's ridiculing a player that has 100% bought into AJ's system even if it means that Dirk takes a lesser role offensively. AJ's offense is built upon taking what the other team will give you which is why the Mavs aren't identified as a half court team or a run and gun team.. because they can adjust their style to an extent to play with their opponent. Well, I don't think the idea was ever to be as run and gun as the Warriors are, but you get the point.

AJ's offense is built upon the idea that if you decide to try and take away Dirk that the Mavs will make you pay elsewhere. If you double Dirk, then someone should be able to get to the rim or have a wide open three at all times. That Dirk shouldn't have to take over games because that's not what a 'TEAM' does unless that is what the other team will give you. Obviously, the Warriors aren't conceeding anything to Dirk, so he's doing what AJ has preached since becoming a coach. He's allowing others to perform their role in offense because of the way the Warriors are attacking the Mavs.

So, how is Dirk rewarded for following AJ's offensive principles? He is rewarded by the coach turning his back on his own principles and throwing Dirk under the bus. I think AJ was a better person than that, but apparently I was wrong.

Big Shot Rob · 05-01-2007, 06:03 PM

I am sorry--that is the exact same principle the Spurs use.

Dump the ball into Duncan in the middle.

If they single-cover him--TD kicks ass.

If they double cover--TD kicks out to a teammate who should be open.

Everyone knows this is our offense--nothing tricky or complicate.

We have been successful against GSW with this same theory.

I still think the Mavs will win and come back and beat them in 7.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

I am sorry--that is the exact same principle the Spurs use.

Dump the ball into Duncan in the middle.

If they single-cover him--TD kicks ass.

If they double cover--TD kicks out to a teammate who should be open.

Everyone knows this is our offense--nothing tricky or complicate.

We have been successful against GSW with this same theory.

I still think the Mavs will win and come back and beat them in 7.

Which is my point.. That is what AJ has wanted Dirk to become.. Yes, in a slightly different manner because of where Dirk sets up with his post..but that is what AJ has wanted.

purplefrog · 05-01-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

The problem with ridiculing Dirk is that he's ridiculing a player that has 100% bought into AJ's system even if it means that Dirk takes a lesser role offensively. AJ's offense is built upon taking what the other team will give you which is why the Mavs aren't identified as a half court team or a run and gun team.. because they can adjust their style to an extent to play with their opponent. Well, I don't think the idea was ever to be as run and gun as the Warriors are, but you get the point.

AJ's offense is built upon the idea that if you decide to try and take away Dirk that the Mavs will make you pay elsewhere. If you double Dirk, then someone should be able to get to the rim or have a wide open three at all times. That Dirk shouldn't have to take over games because that's not what a 'TEAM' does unless that is what the other team will give you. Obviously, the Warriors aren't conceeding anything to Dirk, so he's doing what AJ has preached since becoming a coach. He's allowing others to perform their role in offense because of the way the Warriors are attacking the Mavs.

So, how is Dirk rewarded for following AJ's offensive principles? He is rewarded by the coach turning his back on his own principles and throwing Dirk under the bus. I think AJ was a better person than that, but apparently I was wrong.

I heard this interview on the radio and Avery's response came to a question something like "Does Dirk sound discouraged". And Avery began with "Too discouraged". Then you got the rest of the quote given in the article. My point is that Avery did not necessarily seem to be upset with Dirk's play, but rather his attitude and apparent lack of confidence. I am not trying to exonnerate Avery, because he needs to find a way to maximize the abilities of his superstar and keep his head in the game, but it is not necessarily Dirk's performance that Avery is questioning here.

chumdawg · 05-01-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

The problem with ridiculing Dirk is that he's ridiculing a player that has 100% bought into AJ's system even if it means that Dirk takes a lesser role offensively. AJ's offense is built upon taking what the other team will give you which is why the Mavs aren't identified as a half court team or a run and gun team.. because they can adjust their style to an extent to play with their opponent. Well, I don't think the idea was ever to be as run and gun as the Warriors are, but you get the point.

AJ's offense is built upon the idea that if you decide to try and take away Dirk that the Mavs will make you pay elsewhere. If you double Dirk, then someone should be able to get to the rim or have a wide open three at all times. That Dirk shouldn't have to take over games because that's not what a 'TEAM' does unless that is what the other team will give you. Obviously, the Warriors aren't conceeding anything to Dirk, so he's doing what AJ has preached since becoming a coach. He's allowing others to perform their role in offense because of the way the Warriors are attacking the Mavs.

So, how is Dirk rewarded for following AJ's offensive principles? He is rewarded by the coach turning his back on his own principles and throwing Dirk under the bus. I think AJ was a better person than that, but apparently I was wrong.

This one post sums up all the discussion of this day.

Spot on balls accurate.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 06:39 PM

I've griped alot around here throughout this past season about Dirk not getting enough looks during a game even when they win. When asked why, I'd say that it's great that they're winning games now, but they're not playing games in the same manner in which they'll need to come playoff time. I guess you could say that I never bought into the system that AJ was preaching.. I never thought in the regular season that Dirk taking a back seat to whoever else would be a good thing when playoffs came around. I never thought that turning this offense into one where Dirk plays a variation of the role that TD plays was a good move. I had always thought that this team required Dirk to score 30+ points a game far too often for it to be that style of an offense.

But, that is not what AJ wanted. AJ got the style of offense that he was looking for and when it stopped working, instead of taking responsibility, he shit on the superstar that changed his game to fit the coach's wishes.

alby · 05-02-2007, 12:49 AM

30 points off of 15 shots is crazy efficiency. This is what makes Dirk special.

Dirk should be shooting at least 10 more shots a game.

speaking of efficiency, Baron Davis is a career 41% shooter but we are allowing him to shoot 55% in this series. good f'ing game.

alby · 05-02-2007, 01:05 AM

So I went even further into this analysis and this is what I found.

(career fg) season fg VS. series fg

The top 4 scorers for the Warriors in the series:

Baron Davis - (41%) 43% VS. 55% UP 12%
Jason Richardson - (43%) 41% VS. 51% UP 10%
Stephen Jackson - (42%) 43% VS. 47% UP 4%
Matt Barnes - (44%) 43% VS. 46% UP 3%

I've always believed in the law of averages..

Go Mavs

Murphy3 · 05-02-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

30 points off of 15 shots is crazy efficiency. This is what makes Dirk special.

Dirk should be shooting at least 10 more shots a game.

speaking of efficiency, Baron Davis is a career 41% shooter but we are allowing him to shoot 55% in this series. good f'ing game.

You can thank Jason Terry for that.