Southwest to charge extra for fat people - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

djb · 06-21-2002, 01:40 PM

Southwest will charge large fliers extra fare

Southwest Airlines will start charging larger passengers for two seats on its 2,800 daily flights starting June 26.

The airline, which operates out of 58 U.S. cities and is the largest carrier at Baltimore-Washington International Airport, will begin charging "persons of size" for two seats if they think they may not fit comfortably in one.

Ticket agents will not have weight and height requirements to follow when determining who can comfortably fit into one seat or who needs to purchase another ticket, said Southwest spokeswoman Christine Turneabe-Connelly.

"It is, unfortunately, a judgment call," she said.

Miriam Berg, president of the Council on Size and Weight Discrimination, questioned agents' ability to make the correct assessment.

"Do they have scales to weigh people? Do they have tape measures to measure a person's girth?" she asked.

Southwest has always asked large passengers to purchase two tickets if they would have difficulty fitting into one seat, and ticket agents used to have some flexibility when accommodating these passengers, Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said.

But as of June 26, the airline will ask large passengers "whether the flight is full or not, to purchase an additional seat," she said.

If the flight isn't full, the passenger may request a refund after the flight, Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said.

"For an airline to charge people double based on the person's size is pure discrimination," Miss Berg said. "Do they discriminate the same way against basketball players who are 6 foot 5 inches and don't fit in their seats?"

All people who are too large to fit in one seat, not just the obese, are included in the Southwest policy, Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said.

The industry does not have a general policy on airlines' accommodation of large passengers, said Diana Cronan, a spokeswoman for the Air Transport Association, which represents the major carriers. However, some carriers charge large passengers extra.

Chicago-based United Airlines, for example, charges larger passengers double if they cannot comfortably fit in one seat, said United spokesman Joe Hopkins.

Miss Berg said she has had more complaints from large travelers about Southwest, which is the fourth-largest domestic airline based on passenger numbers, than any other airline.

"They think they can get away with it because they think discriminating against people on the basis of weight will be acceptable to most of the population," she said.

She blames the airlines for making seats too small to accommodate larger Americans.

"The fact is that Americans are getting larger," she said. "This is what the population looks like, and an airline has an obligation to make its seat fit the population."

The actual trend in size is hard to pin down. In 1998, the government's body-mass index was changed, resulting in 30 million Americans going from government-approved to overweight or obese overnight.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that, under the new standards, 61 percent of Americans were overweight or obese in 1999. The percentage of obese Americans nearly doubled from about 15 percent in 1980 to 27 percent in 1999.

The policy change at Southwest was prompted by studies of its service, the company says. The airline found that many large passengers did not purchase two tickets and that other customers often complained when their space was encroached upon.

"We learned some important lessons from that," Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said.

Advocacy organizations such as Miss Berg's have long opposed airlines charging large passengers extra.

The National Association for the Advancement of Fat Acceptance offers large passengers tips on its Web site for dealing with airlines but acknowledges that passengers often encounter stumbling blocks.

"Your needs deserve to be met, but it may be up to you to remind them of this simple fact," the site reads. "Remember that you have a right to accessible transportation."

Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said Southwest ticket agents are trained not only to make good judgment calls on who needs to pay for an extra seat but also to be discreet when confronting passengers.

"We don't want the customer to be embarrassed or offended in any way," she said.

But it's important that all passengers be comfortable on Southwest flights, she said. "If we have a full flight and there's somebody sitting next to [a larger passenger], the other customer becomes upset."

Source: Southwest will charge large fliers extra fare

aexchange · 06-21-2002, 01:54 PM

about time. and before anyone starts to beat me...

have u ever had to sit next to a fat person on a 20 hr flight to hong kong?

or try to get past them to get to the restroom?

djb · 06-21-2002, 01:59 PM

I had to sit in between two fat drunks who never seemed to run out of cigarettes on a trans-Atlantic flight. To make matters worse, they were friends and kept talking to each other the entire time (and when they ran out of things to say, they'd turn to me and ask me questions). I asked a bunch of times if they wanted to sit next to each other but they didn't want to. I guess even fat people don't want to sit next to other fat people. Since they drank the whole way, they had to constantly get up to go to the bathroom. When they did, they had to move all their liquor bottles and ash trays and shit over to my tray, so they could get out of their seats. Fun stuff.

Rhylan · 06-21-2002, 02:03 PM

Southwest said on WFAA two nights ago that this policy has been in effect for at least 20 years. Nothing new, just a lawsuit against them, I think.

MavKikiNYC · 06-21-2002, 02:09 PM

On the surface, it sounds reasonable, but...

I once had to sit next to a big weightlifter-type guy, mullet haircut and all....not fat by a long stretch, just big. Real big. Probably 6.6-275. And he drank a lot too. And fell asleep. And woulda had his head on my shoulder, if I hadn't leaned way over into the aisle. Full flight, nowhere else to sit, no use complaining, common sense screaming that I not pick a fight with a weightlifter with whom I was going to be sitting for the next 3-4 hours.

And then once sitting among a flock of Orthodox Hasidim, each carrying a (presumably)non-paying, non-stop crying infant, the father of one of whom chastised me for picking up his infant's pacifier off the floor....which left me considering the merits of a mandatory infants-as-checked baggage policy.....

The airlines should definitely make seats bigger, but there are all kinds of inconveniences, encroachments and abuses that they can't even begin to work into their fare system. So why limit it to fat people?

djb · 06-21-2002, 02:12 PM

Well the policy actually applies to all "large" people, not just those who are obese. But of course it's only the organizations representing obese people who are bitching.

MavKikiNYC · 06-21-2002, 02:13 PM

So if I'm slim, can I get a discount?

Murphy3 · 06-21-2002, 02:21 PM

if you take up 2 seats, you should be charged for 2 seats

Hoopsmeister · 06-21-2002, 02:29 PM

<< Well the policy actually applies to all "large" people, not just those who are obese. But of course it's only the organizations representing obese people who are bitching. >>

My right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose. Your right to be as large as you want to be (fat, muscle, wearing big fairy wings for all I care) ends when it takes up half my seat.

Drbio · 06-21-2002, 02:53 PM

If you come across the arm rest into my seat then you should at least buy me some drinks. I'd accept beer bribery in that case. I would like to see the airline accomodate the larger passengers somehow, but if it comes down to it, if they occupy two seasts, tehn I see no harm in charging them two seats. The bigger issue here is weight. EVERY airplane knows how much weight they can carry. All baggage, cargo, etc are carefully weighed. The airlines use weight averages per person to estimate on the flight and then take a percentage of the total estimate to remain safe. If there are too many large passengers, then the weight is underestimated. But the operating percentages of the estimated weight are something like 67% so there is a lot of wiggle room...just not in YOUR seat.

Big Boy Laroux · 06-24-2002, 10:27 AM

<< "For an airline to charge people double based on the person's size is pure discrimination," Miss Berg said. "Do they discriminate the same way against basketball players who are 6 foot 5 inches and don't fit in their seats?" >>

all i can say to this is... SHUT THE HELL UP! i'm tall, but i can fit myself into my own damn seat. sure it's uncomfortable on my legs, but i don't spill over into someone else's seat.

and it's not discrimination. it's common sense. they would rather charge the morbidly obese double (and get backlash from them) than continue to get complaints from the majority of normal passengers. supposedly, complaints about fat people crowding them is a common complaint by passengers.

a friend of mine was telling me a story the other day. she's in her seat. the arm rest is down. this fat guy sits next to her. he lifts up the arm rest. she puts it back down. he lifts it back up. then, during the flight, he's sweating like a pig. he reaches up and turns her air vent to him (without asking)!

holy crap, if anyone ever, EVER, EVER, EVER touches my air vent, it's war.

i say just throw the super fat people into the baggage hold... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Drbio · 06-24-2002, 10:52 AM

maybe they can just add a large ass section.

The vent thing and the arm rest thing would have prompted a passionate response from me in a very harsh kind of way.

Big Boy Laroux · 06-24-2002, 10:59 AM

i really don't think it's in the airline's best ineterst to have all the fat people in one section... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

TheKid · 06-24-2002, 11:28 AM

I feel bad for those people, but hey if they're coming over into my seat then they should have two. I just wonder how they can do this without really getting sued?

Dooby · 06-24-2002, 11:54 AM

Fat people are not a protected class. Unless they are classified as disabled. In which case, SW would have to make reasonable accomidations. I don't believe you can charge for providing the reasonable accomidation. In this case reasonable accomidation would be two seats.

I don't know how they can enforce this from a practical standpoint. I suppose that frequent flier accounts could be tagged in a way that alerts the airline to charge more in advance. Otherwise, you would have to charge for the extra seat at the gate when they realize how large a person is. But ticket agents at the gate aren't equiped for that. Also, what do they do on a full flight?

Murphy3 · 06-24-2002, 12:09 PM

edit

Dooby · 06-24-2002, 01:41 PM

coward.

Drbio · 06-24-2002, 03:39 PM

chicken.

Smiles · 06-24-2002, 07:45 PM

Kentucky

edit: oops, wrong thread.

note: [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 06-24-2002, 07:47 PM

haha..why am i a chicken and a coward? just because i didn't want to say something that was too offensive?

heaven forbid i actually monitor my posts once a month or so

Smiles · 06-24-2002, 07:52 PM

heaven forbid!

are we in for an eclipse or something?

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 06-24-2002, 07:58 PM

i apologize to doc, smiles, and dooby..i won't let it happen again

Smiles · 06-24-2002, 08:01 PM

aw shucks! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

i take it back! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Drbio · 06-24-2002, 09:16 PM

you are forgiven. Chicken.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Dooby · 06-25-2002, 07:27 AM

No problem, coward.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Drbio · 06-25-2002, 08:33 PM

hahaha

Kat · 06-25-2002, 10:08 PM

Oh damn, now you have me thinking; as a person that travels more than average- a new marketing concept-Ha!

I would pay extra fare for - no children flights, no take-a-bath-in-cheap-perfume-type persons flights,no thump the leg against my seat because you are nervous flights, beer drinkers only flights, no talk my ear off because you are stupid and I have a hangover and you aren't getting the picture(because I am about to get rude and tell you to shut the hell up) flights.

I'm all for that!

Drbio · 06-25-2002, 10:22 PM

beer drinkers only flights.....I like the sound of that.