Thoughts: Dal/Ind - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dalmations202 · 08-06-2007, 03:56 PM

Successful Trade Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade.

Due to Dallas and Indiana being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Indiana had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID #4166274

Dallas Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -4.9 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Darrell Armstrong
6-1 PG from Fayetteville State
5.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 15.7 minutes
Mike Dunleavy
6-8 SF from Duke
12.8 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.8 apg in 31.5 minutes
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes
Outgoing Players
Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
16.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.2 apg in 35.2 minutes
Josh Howard
6-5 SG from Wake Forrest
18.9 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.8 apg in 35.1 minutes
Erick Dampier
6-11 C from Mississippi State
7.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 25.2 minutes

Indiana Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +4.9 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
16.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.2 apg in 35.2 minutes
Josh Howard
6-5 SG from Wake Forrest
18.9 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.8 apg in 35.1 minutes
Erick Dampier
6-11 C from Mississippi State
7.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 25.2 minutes
Outgoing Players
Darrell Armstrong
6-1 PG from Fayetteville State
5.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 15.7 minutes
Mike Dunleavy
6-8 SF from Duke
12.8 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.8 apg in 31.5 minutes
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes

Would Dallas make these changes?
Would Indy?

Indy: Gets 3 of 5 starters that went to the finals two years ago including an All-Star.

Dal: Gets inside offensive help, and defense in O'Neal. Also get a good offensive threat in Dunleavy and get Armstrong back -- who was a Avery favorite.

Dallas:
PG: Harris, JJB, Armstrong
SG/SF:Stack, Dunleavy, Jones, George, (Bucknor, Ager, RTerry)
PF/C: Dirk, O'Neal, Diop, (DJ, Fazekas, Pops, Bass)

That is nine deep -- extremely solid.

Indy:
PG:Tinsley, Terry, Diener
SG/SF:Howard, Granger, Daniels, Graham
PF/C: Diogu, Murphy, Damp, Foster, Harrison

Thoughts?

How good would Indy be in the East? would this lineup get them to the playoffs?

destroy ALL · 08-06-2007, 04:24 PM

Jet for armstrong = No
J-ho for Dunlevy = No
Damp for J-O = Yes

that's 1 of 3 which = this trade sucks!

NEXT!

AxdemxO · 08-06-2007, 04:34 PM

Too much for us to give up IMO

SeriousSummer · 08-06-2007, 05:19 PM

This one is very difficult--I hate to give up Josh, I don't mind Terry and Damp so much.

The most difficult thing, however, is evaluating the change in the mix. O'Neal isn't bad on defense, but Dunleavy is very weak, although a good passer. On the other hand, playing Harris with a real two guard would help on defense.

I would also be worried about missing Damp when Dallas played Houston or Miami.

If you include Buckner and Granger in the deal, then it still works. I'd certainly do that.

dalmations202 · 08-06-2007, 07:15 PM

I don't see a way that Dallas would do it because it would be a core change, and not a tweak.

With that said, if Jones 6'6, George 6'8, Buck 6'4, could give you enough D, then Dunleavy 6'8 becomes a 6th man with the O off the bench beside Stack 6'6. I think he could excel in that role.

Dirk, JO would be possibly the best frontline in the league. Diop could play the C when Dirk is resting, and move JO to the PF. Against Miami/Houston/NYK -- DJ/Fazekas could provide some banging.

Against teams like GSW, two man game with Dirk/JO and backside cutters. That team could out Phoenix - Phoenix.

It'd be dead in the water in about 3 years, but till then....it would have the possibility of being the best team since Jordans.

jayC · 08-08-2007, 11:15 PM

Low post presence. Jermaine Oneal is a good all around player. Jho, Jet and Damp for an all nba type talent definitely worth it.

dalmations202 · 08-09-2007, 08:03 AM

I honestly don't think that Dallas would trade all three due to chemistry, and the desire to keep core players..... ie Avery likes Damp and Terry, and I am guessing JHo as well.

From a talent standpoint though, adding JO adds a dimension that you don't have -- inside post. Losing JHo hurts, but you don't lose a skillset -- Dunleavy is just as good and offensive threat as JHo, IMO and George plays as good of defense. JO is a better shotblocker than any of the players on the Mavs, IMO. He doesn't like to bang with the Curry's, and Randolphs, but they still have Diop for those teams. JO has also never played with the likes of Dirk, to take the scoring load off him. Terry is a really good shooter, but Dunleavy is too. In fact, I think of Dunleavy's game being closer to Terry's than to JHo's. He is just doing it at 6'8" instead of 6'2" and is a little slower. Neither persons defense is anything to write home about. DA is a bundle of energy, and a descent veteran point.

I just think that the Mavs will only go as far as Devin Harris takes them. He has to advance for the Mavs to get over the hump.

Losing Damp, JHo, and Terry would hurt, but with the return, they would add another aspect to their team. IMO, you always start a dominating championship team by dominating from the inside out. Jordan teams were the only ones that I don't think did that (and they had Oakley, Rodman, Grant, Cartwright and Longley. The Lakers had Kareem, Houston Olajawon, SA had TD, LA Shaq, Celtics the big 3, heck even the latest Detroit had Big Ben and Weed.

If Dallas can dominate the frontcourt with two inside forces, that can also step outside -- then I am not sure that any team could come close to stopping them. I know Dirk is more of an outside guy, and JO and inside guy, but both can do both in limited roles. That leaves the defensive end, which JO plays well, and Dirk is a good defensive rebounder. They would have trouble with bruising centers, except they have that covered by Diop and DJ. They would have a shotblocker in JO or Diop always in the game to cut down on the slashers. Shooters could be closed on by guys with length...ie George, and Dunleavy.

This team (provided the trade went down as I started at the first) would be a basic classic team that would be highly athletic, and be able to run with any team, or play the half court, and be able to get inside for easy buckets and trips to the line. They would also have some slashing ability, and some size.

DH 6'3", Stack/Jones 6'6", George/Dunleavy 6'8", Dirk/JO/Diop 7'

These 8 would play the largest minutes in the playoffs. Admittedly Dunleavy isn't known for defense, and Stack/Dirk are average on D, but the rest are stout defenders as well.

I still don't think the Mavs would do it, but I think this team would win it all a couple of times, but only have about a three - four year window.

V2M · 08-09-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayC

Low post presence. Jermaine Oneal is a good all around player. Jho, Jet and Damp for an all nba type talent definitely worth it.

They don't need Jho... 'cuz Granger (24yrs, 6'9", 46%FG, 38%3FG) plays the same position and a similar style, only much younger and taller!

A more reasonable trade may be Devin/Damp or Diop/Picks/Cash/Filler for JON+Bad Contract

DevinFuture · 08-09-2007, 08:36 AM

How does Diop and filler get you Jermaine O'Neal? If we could do that, it's a no-brainer

V2M · 08-09-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinFuture

How does Diop and filler get you Jermaine O'Neal? If we could do that, it's a no-brainer

I meant Devin plus (either Damp or Diop) plus Picks plus Cash plus Filler... for O'Neal plus a bad contract.

DevinFuture · 08-09-2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

I meant Devin plus (either Damp or Diop) plus Picks plus Cash plus Filler... for O'Neal plus a bad contract.

Ah. Well, I don't think Indiana has a contract bad enough to not make me want to pull the trigger on that either.

Terry, Barea
Howard, Stack, Jones
George, Howard, Stack
Dirk, O'Neal
O'Neal, Diop

I would be willing to let Devin go for that frontline. I would think Indiana could find a better deal elsewhere though.

dalmations202 · 08-10-2007, 07:33 AM

Why in the world wouldn't Indy want JHo to play beside Granger? I mean a SG/SF combo of a 6'6" Howard at SG and 6'8" Granger at SF would be pretty strong, IMO.

I guess I don't see any way the Mavs get O'Neal w/o including Howard -- which Indy would immediately put in the starting lineup at SG.

Terry,
Howard
Granger
Diogu
Damp

Those five might get to the second round or farther in the East, depending on how far Diogu could carry them. They have an outside shooter in Terry, two slashers/clean the glass guys in Howard/Granger, an inside presence in Diogu, and defense in Damp. They would be pretty good.

I see no way they do the deal w/o Howard being the starting point though, IMO.

alby · 08-10-2007, 10:00 AM

As everyone on this board knows, I am all for trading JET--especially for an all star big man. Do it Donnie.

robo98564 · 08-10-2007, 11:26 AM

I thought the Dallas-Indy game was pretty good overall... Yes it was just a preseason game, but I awas encouraged by what I saw out of......

Oops, I guess I misunderstood the question. haha

unctarheel1209 · 08-22-2007, 10:48 PM

We wouldn't include Josh Howard in any trade for KG, so why would they include him in a trade for Jermaine O'Neal?