Howard/Diop for Gasol? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Eman · 12-12-2007, 12:42 PM

Gasol may be on the market. Would Josh for Gasol be a good trade? We would get the inside scoring that we desperately need.

MavsX · 12-12-2007, 01:52 PM

i don't know about this one. He's got a beard and stuff.

alby · 12-12-2007, 02:37 PM

Josh has emerged into a bonafide all star, so yes I would trade for Gasol.

Eman · 12-12-2007, 02:43 PM

Are other Josh's easier to find than other big men who can score close to the basket?

Gasol/Damp
Dirk
Bass/Stack
Ejones/Terry
harris

A lot of scoring and a balanced team. Scoring at EVERY position. We don't have to play 4 on 5 or go with a small lineup (while watching the other team do a layup drill) to have scorers at each position.

SeriousSummer · 12-12-2007, 03:06 PM

The trade doesn't work under the Salary Cap because Josh is a base year player. You can make it work by expanding it to a bigger trade, but not as a 2 for 1 deal.

Eman · 12-12-2007, 03:33 PM

Then cut memphis's salary structure, give them more cap room buy throwing in KVH.

MavsX · 12-12-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman

Then cut memphis's salary structure, give them more cap room buy throwing in KVH.

jackpot

dalmations202 · 12-12-2007, 04:11 PM

IMO, if you get Gasol, then you should try to get Navarro with him. Navarro has game.

Damp would be ideal to send because he lives close to Memphis. I am not sure Memphis would want his contract though. Same with Terry.

Gasol/Navarro for their choice of players that still leaves Dallas with Dirk and one of the PG's (Harris/Terry) and one of the C's (Damp/Diop). Would be fine with me, just to get that inside guy.

alby · 12-12-2007, 04:14 PM

Navarro is a stud. If we acquire him, I want to move Terry because they provide similar things offensively.

destroy ALL · 12-12-2007, 06:00 PM

why do ppl always want to trade josh? josh howard is here to stay! ALL REAPEAT THIS:

JOSH HOWARD IS HERE TO STAY!
JOSH HOWARD IS HERE TO STAY!
JOSH HOWARD IS HERE TO STAY!
JOSH HOWARD IS HERE TO STAY!

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-12-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroy ALL

why do ppl always want to trade josh? josh howard is here to stay! ALL REAPEAT THIS:

JOSH HOWARD IS HERE TO STAY!
JOSH HOWARD IS HERE TO STAY!
JOSH HOWARD IS HERE TO STAY!
JOSH HOWARD IS HERE TO STAY!

Rep, J-Ho really is Dirk's Scottie Pippen (Jordan won zero rings without Pippen..Dirk...well went to zero finals without Howard) To me I like him just as much as Dirk and I would be a little less sweet to win a ring without him.

SeriousSummer · 12-12-2007, 07:04 PM

This deal works under the salary cap:

Howard/Terry/Hassell/Diop for Gasol/Miller/Navarro

Dallas:

C: Damp (28), Gasol (32)
PF: Dirk (32), Bass (4--plus any garbage time)
SF: Miller, George
SG: Jones, Stackhouse
PG: Harris, Navarro

Memphis:

C: Darko, Diop
PF: Warrick, Swift, Cardinal
SF: Howard, (Gay)
SG: Gay, (Terry)
PG: Terry, Conley, Lowry

What do you think?

alby · 12-12-2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

What do you think?

I would love that move.

that would give us an extremely flexible lineup

seelenjaeger · 12-12-2007, 09:46 PM

No to that deal, unless we add Avery Johnson on the tradeaways ...

Seriously - I´d love to see Pau and Dirk on the same team someday, but I do think that if it ever happens neither will wear a Mavs uni (sooner or later Cubes will lose patience for either Dirk or Avery, which means that a move for Kobe Bryant involving Dirk is becoming more likely - and I could see the Lakers trying to get both Dirk and Gasol on their team somehow in a major breakup).

DelNegro · 12-12-2007, 11:08 PM

Memphis says no. There's no reason for them to trade Mike Miller, who's a stud, or Navarro, who's cheap and might turn out to be a stud himself. Terry does nothing for them since he's just a shooter, which they already have in Miller, who has to play point guard, which they already have 3 of, all younger and cheaper than Terry. Rudy Gay and Josh Howard are both true small forwards so acquiring him forces one of them to play out of position.

Besides, they can probably get more out of Chicago. Come December 15th a Gasol for Gordon-Thomas-Joe Smith trade works.

Tokey41 · 12-12-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Memphis says no. There's no reason for them to trade Mike Miller, who's a stud, or Navarro, who's cheap and might turn out to be a stud himself. Terry does nothing for them since he's just a shooter, which they already have in Miller, who has to play point guard, which they already have 3 of, all younger and cheaper than Terry. Rudy Gay and Josh Howard are both true small forwards so acquiring him forces one of them to play out of position.

Besides, they can probably get more out of Chicago. Come December 15th a Gasol for Gordon-Thomas-Joe Smith trade works.

Agreed. Memphis would be coming up short handed and that Chicago package would look damn good for them (and Chicago, once they get an option... ANY option down low they are going to be good).

With guys like Thomas and Gordon added to Gay/Conely-Navarro/Darko that makes them a team loaded with potential stars at every position. There's a good chance at least one of those guys will break out eventually.

dalmations202 · 12-13-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Agreed. Memphis would be coming up short handed and that Chicago package would look damn good for them (and Chicago, once they get an option... ANY option down low they are going to be good).

With guys like Thomas and Gordon added to Gay/Conely-Navarro/Darko that makes them a team loaded with potential stars at every position. There's a good chance at least one of those guys will break out eventually.

I disagree.... Chicago has had Brand, Chandler and Curry down low, and couldn't get it done. Chicago needs to go get Kobe in the worse way, no matter what it costs.

Memphis on the other hand might do a deal, although I doubt it being the one set up by SS (although I would do it from the Mavs standpoint).

Navarro/Gasol could be a package if forced by Gasol and Navarro. They are together because they wanted to keep Gasol happy. I can see them packaged together.
Problem for the Mavs is that Memphis really has PG's and a SF, so they need a Big. If the Mavs were to deal with them, it would have to be something like Howard, Bass, Diop, KVH for Gasol/Navarro/bad contract. The KVH deal would have to be the amount that would make the numbers work and save Memphis some $$$. This way they could play Conley, Howard, Gay, Bass, Diop, and run with anyone and play D, while bringing Miller in as the 6th man. Stromile might even be able to be a player again.

Dirkenstien · 12-13-2007, 10:10 AM

Good looking deal but not sure Memphis would buy into that.

DelNegro · 12-13-2007, 10:37 AM

Forget Navarro. He's good, and he's cheap. Teams like to keep guys like that. There's no reason for Memphis to trade him. Especially in a package where they would already be giving away their best player. There's also too much overlap between Howard, Miller and Gay so the effectiveness for all 3 guys would be hurt since one of them would be forced to play out of position, and one would be on the bench.

Also, I think we can forget the pipe dream of using Keith Van Horn as some magical salary matcher. Especially when you're talking about having to pay him upwards of $8 million dollars to get a deal to work. Basketball-wise he's got nothing to give, so basically acquiring him in a trade is akin to taking $8 million dollars and lighting it on fire.

Bottom line, Dallas just doesn't have anything Memphis wants. And since all-star caliber big men don't grow on trees, Memphis will have plenty of other options in terms of potential trade partners.

dalmations202 · 12-13-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Forget Navarro. He's good, and he's cheap. Teams like to keep guys like that. There's no reason for Memphis to trade him. Especially in a package where they would already be giving away their best player. There's also too much overlap between Howard, Miller and Gay so the effectiveness for all 3 guys would be hurt since one of them would be forced to play out of position, and one would be on the bench.

Also, I think we can forget the pipe dream of using Keith Van Horn as some magical salary matcher. Especially when you're talking about having to pay him upwards of $8 million dollars to get a deal to work. Basketball-wise he's got nothing to give, so basically acquiring him in a trade is akin to taking $8 million dollars and lighting it on fire.

Bottom line, Dallas just doesn't have anything Memphis wants. And since all-star caliber big men don't grow on trees, Memphis will have plenty of other options in terms of potential trade partners.

Except that Navarro is on the last year of his contract, and he is a free agent after this -- might as well get something out of him, if you are trading away Gasol who is his best friend. Not saying that the Mavs have enough to be the high bidder, but yes he could be included pretty easily this year IF you move Gasol.

KVH is a matching expiring contract --- MANY owners would use him for that . He isn't going to play anymore in the NBA, but he might collect another paycheck for a team wanting to dump longterm salary. You might be lighting 8M on fire, but saving 20+M in the process depending on the situation. I must admit, after looking at Memphis lineup, they don't really have any really bad contracts needing a KVH to take care of - maybe Cardinal.

Options will always be there, depending on who is willing to do what and what value the owners and GM's place on talent, baggage, and money.

<edit>
Navarro was a 2nd round pick this year #40 who signed to a one year contract. Does that make him restricted or unrestricted next year?

DelNegro · 12-13-2007, 01:56 PM

Why not just re-sign Navarro and tell Gasol that if he wants to play with his buddy it's going to be in Memphis?

As for KVH, I'll believe it when I see it. Just because the Mavs don't have a fat expiring contract doesn't mean there aren't any out there belonging to guys who you can actually use this year.

Navarro will be restricted FA.

Tokey41 · 12-13-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I disagree.... Chicago has had Brand, Chandler and Curry down low, and couldn't get it done. Chicago needs to go get Kobe in the worse way, no matter what it costs.

Memphis on the other hand might do a deal, although I doubt it being the one set up by SS (although I would do it from the Mavs standpoint).

Navarro/Gasol could be a package if forced by Gasol and Navarro. They are together because they wanted to keep Gasol happy. I can see them packaged together.
Problem for the Mavs is that Memphis really has PG's and a SF, so they need a Big. If the Mavs were to deal with them, it would have to be something like Howard, Bass, Diop, KVH for Gasol/Navarro/bad contract. The KVH deal would have to be the amount that would make the numbers work and save Memphis some $$$. This way they could play Conley, Howard, Gay, Bass, Diop, and run with anyone and play D, while bringing Miller in as the 6th man. Stromile might even be able to be a player again.

It's not the same at all. These are different times and squads we're talking about here: they gave up on Brand way too soon, Chandler has only recently shown ANY offensive skills (which can largely be attributed to Chris Paul), and they were concerned about Curry's health so they let him go. I'm not saying they haven't had low post players before, they just didn't have the other pieces to go with them. Now it's what they are missing, kind of like us.

On this particular team their main concern is getting a low post player. Would Kobe be nice? Yeah. He'd be a nice superstar on any tean, he can be your entire offense (and some nights that his preferred method), but when your only giving up Gordon and Thomas instead of what the Lakers want (something like Deng. Gordon, and Thomas/Noah) I think it makes more sense to try your luck with Gasol. You don't gut your team.

And If I was Memphis I would do that deal in a second, young starter caliber talent at every position.

thereaper · 12-13-2007, 04:02 PM

Look, the only way Josh Howard is getting traded is if L.A. is ready to move Kobe, or if Cleveland decides it can't re-sign LeBron in 2011 and he wants to sign and trade to Dallas. Both are HIGHLY unlikely scenarios.

me770706 · 12-13-2007, 04:22 PM

josh is gradually emerging as the real star of this team, his game is almost there all he really needs to show is more leadership but he has already displayed the toughness and attitude this team sorely needs. dirk will still be a key piece but more of a compliment for josh in the coming years, we're seeing dirk start to embrace this already this season