2 Years after the Wade debacle.... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

endrity · 03-02-2008, 06:42 PM

.... this coach has no idea what to do with a hot wing player. We basically allowed Kobe to do whatever he wanted in the 4th. The guys played well enough to win this game, and Kobe had a parade to the FT line throughout the 4th to counter anything good we did. After Wade did exactly the same thing, it might be a good idea to start either coaching your team better, or to actually try to bring in a good defensive stopper.

We can't rely on the "warriors" Stack, Jet, Howard, or the "veterans" George, Jones to do that.

Too bad indeed, cause Dirk matched Kobe one for one down the stretch, and that is an amazing thing to say about a 7 footer. I still feel like he has to do everything at times for the team.

jthig32 · 03-02-2008, 06:45 PM

It was befuddling that he took so long to start running the double team to force the ball out of his hands. As soon as we started doing that, we started getting some stops. Just started too late.

mavsjunkie · 03-02-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

.... this coach has no idea what to do with a hot wing player. We basically allowed Kobe to do whatever he wanted in the 4th. The guys played well enough to win this game, and Kobe had a parade to the FT line throughout the 4th to counter anything good we did. After Wade did exactly the same thing, it might be a good idea to start either coaching your team better, or to actually try to bring in a good defensive stopper.

We can't rely on the "warriors" Stack, Jet, Howard, or the "veterans" George, Jones to do that.

Too bad indeed, cause Dirk matched Kobe one for one down the stretch, and that is an amazing thing to say about a 7 footer. I still feel like he has to do everything at times for the team.

No one stops Kobe actaully, so their's not much you can do. If you double team him, he will find the open guy and they have 3 point shooters who can knock it down.

In a seven game series, we can beat these guys. Let's concentrate on getting all of our assignments up to par right now, Josh needs to start playing towards the basket and not trying to be Reggie Miller, this is the same problem we had with Finley. And also, Josh needs to get better defensively.

mkat · 03-02-2008, 06:49 PM

the blame goes further than Johnson. this whole team can compete with any of those top 4 teams...we just can't beat them. kinda sucks to go from best team in the league last year to this.

you can forget this team coming on strong in march and april. they'll be lucky to get the 8th spot.

jthig32 · 03-02-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

the blame goes further than Johnson. this whole team can compete with any of those top 4 teams...we just can't beat them. kinda sucks to go from best team in the league last year to this.

you can forget this team coming on strong in march and april. they'll be lucky to get the 8th spot.

This is just a worthless post.

sike · 03-02-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

It was befuddling that he took so long to start running the double team to force the ball out of his hands. As soon as we started doing that, we started getting some stops. Just started too late.

I think AJ has a high hoops IQ for a player and a low one for a coach...does that make sense?

FINtastic · 03-02-2008, 07:10 PM

I don't know, I think the Lakers would have adjusted pretty quickly. In fact, with one of the so-called stops, Kobe adjusted perfectly by immediately recognizing where the double team was coming from and going the other way. The only problem was that the Lakers weren't in position to give him good passing options. Give them just a couple of possessions, and I'm sure the Lakers would have adjusted and gotten some easy buckets. Maybe Avery just wanted to save that trick up his sleeve until the most important junction of the game, which he did.

Can't we just appreciate a player who is perhaps the most offensively complete player this game has ever seen playing at the top of his game?

mqywaaah · 03-02-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I think AJ has a high hoops IQ for a player and a low one for a coach...does that make sense?

Yes, it does. And I halfly agree

mellowyellow75206 · 03-02-2008, 07:40 PM

i think we miss del harris and his infuence on the defense

jthig32 · 03-02-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I don't know, I think the Lakers would have adjusted pretty quickly. In fact, with one of the so-called stops, Kobe adjusted perfectly by immediately recognizing where the double team was coming from and going the other way. The only problem was that the Lakers weren't in position to give him good passing options. Give them just a couple of possessions, and I'm sure the Lakers would have adjusted and gotten some easy buckets. Maybe Avery just wanted to save that trick up his sleeve until the most important junction of the game, which he did.

Can't we just appreciate a player who is perhaps the most offensively complete player this game has ever seen playing at the top of his game?

Sure, if that's what you enjoy about a message board. I like to talk about the options we had and maybe what we can do differently this time.

Sure they would have adjusted. They DID adjust. But you still try to take the ball out of the hands of the best offensive player on the planet.

A couple less drives might have kept Damp in the game longer as well.

Janett_Reno · 03-02-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

.... this coach has no idea what to do with a hot wing player. We basically allowed Kobe to do whatever he wanted in the 4th. The guys played well enough to win this game, and Kobe had a parade to the FT line throughout the 4th to counter anything good we did. After Wade did exactly the same thing, it might be a good idea to start either coaching your team better, or to actually try to bring in a good defensive stopper.

We can't rely on the "warriors" Stack, Jet, Howard, or the "veterans" George, Jones to do that.

Too bad indeed, cause Dirk matched Kobe one for one down the stretch, and that is an amazing thing to say about a 7 footer. I still feel like he has to do everything at times for the team.

We had Griffin first to try to stop Wade and Kobe and we let him go back to Chicago. Then we got Buckner for a Kobe stopper and he was worthless. Then we got Hassell for the Wade and Kobe stopper but we did not keep him long. Eddie Jones use to be good on defense and he is to old to play now. George is older and not fast enough. Terry is to small. Howard use to be really good on defense but it almost looks like he isn't feeling good or i am not sure what is wrong and maybe his heart isn't in it anymore. He is still a good player but he had a chance of being a star in the league. In all fairness, Kobe is the best and no one stops him but you hope to slow him down.

I was impressed with our team today. At half Terry or Dirk had done nothing and we was winning the game. I am impressed with Kidd and his passing. I was impressed with Dampier. Terry and Dirk finally started hitting shots. Remember, no one gives us a chance against the Spurs or Lakers. We lose by 3 at the Spurs against the Spurs. We lost in OT against the Lakers in LA. So we was not dominated. We held our own. It shows me we can play with these teams and maybe beat them. We do not have a stopper down the stretch for a player like Kobe or to slow him. That player was suppose to be Hassell. Howard is more than capable. Howard is doing better.

I am not compalining about this loss, we played hard. We lost fair and square and Kobe was great but we played with them. The bad thing is it is so many good teams in the west that you have to win against a good team every now and then and on there home court because if you do not, you might not make the playoffs. I feel we will. Utah is almost unbeatable at home and they can't win on the road. We have a good team.

endrity · 03-02-2008, 07:52 PM

Kobe is great, I know that. But the FT parade was ridicolous. He seemed like he wasn't even breaking a sweat, going to the right all the time. Our players have to be coached better, to at least make him work.

And Josh is not even a good defender anymore, I mean he is a pretty bad defender at times.

fluid.forty.one · 03-02-2008, 07:54 PM

Lakers shot 50 Free throws. Think about that.

FINtastic · 03-02-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Sure, if that's what you enjoy about a message board. I like to talk about the options we had and maybe what we can do differently this time.

Sure they would have adjusted. They DID adjust. But you still try to take the ball out of the hands of the best offensive player on the planet.

A couple less drives might have kept Damp in the game longer as well.

Okay, so you agree with me then. If they are going to adjust quickly, why not save it for the most important stretch of the game.

Also, what I'm complaining about is I feel everyone's hatred for Avery and some of our stupid players has caused people to lose objectivity. I'm sorry, but a player at Kobe's level is going to adjust to the double team. Kobe didn't just fall of the turnip truck, you know. As a matter of fact, I thought he adjusted to it quite well the second it came but his teammates just weren't in place. When you look at it that way, maybe Avery did something smart for once by not going to it too early.

And with players like Odom and Gasol, would the Lakers really have stopped attacking the basket when Kobe got doubled? I doubt it. Dampier probably would have gotten that last foul anyways, just in a different way.

LonghornDub · 03-02-2008, 08:01 PM

We need a Bruce Bowen. That's what we need.

Janett_Reno · 03-02-2008, 08:01 PM

Other things i noticed.

Walton and Odom is so important to the Lakers. They do alot of the dirty work and fight for the ball, especially Walton.

Gasol will kill you, if you do not bump him around. When Dampier got physical with him, he didn't do much but alot of his early was Kobed penetrating and dishing to him. He fits the Lakers very good but the more you push him, shove him. bump him around, he starts to stay out of the middle and starts standing around. He is a big key for the Lakers and more than capable

Fisher is normally clutch and he missed some key shots.

The wing player that starts with a V, The Machine, he couldn't hit a shot and he normally makes his shots. Kobe, Walton was setting him up time after time and he was missing.

The Lakers are good but not a lock by any means. I liked dampiers tough play today. I also liked Dirk did not quit, even with his shot not going down and also he has had probs with Odom and Marion before but he called for the ball and was going one on one with Odom and was not scarred of Odom. He tried hard and came on in the 4th and even Terry started hitting some 3's. I liked how we never quit. One play was impressive was when Dirk tied the game with the 3 to go in ot and it was all because of Terry. Terry set a pick and bulldozed Farmar over and even got physical with Odom and held both off for Dirk to shoot and Dirk made the shot. It is alot of these lil things to make you good by the playoffs. In the end, it was Kobe being Magic Johnson, Bird, Jordan, Chamberlin, Russell and Jabaar. It was many, many moves and plays in the 4th he made that was un human. I am not a Kobe fan but he is by far the best in the NBA and also he hates to lose and has alot of heart. It is so close in talent with about 6 teams in the west, it is wide open.

FINtastic · 03-02-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

We need a Bruce Bowen. That's what we need.

As much as I hate that guy, I gotta agree with you on that one.

Janett_Reno · 03-02-2008, 08:16 PM

Smart teams will charge in and down the lane in the last minutes of the game and make the refs call a charge or foul. The Lakers and Kobe did this but he moves his body in mid air he can avoid a charge(usually). That running hook and some of those plays he made wasn't easy and he kept splitting two defenders we had on him. Dampier alot of times would not let him dunk or come in for a layup and he would stop and shoot. Dampier also got physical with Kobe and did not give him anything free, so Kobe started whinning. Dampier held his ground and the painted area.

I think in the last game with the Spurs, we shot more ft's than them and on paper we won that game but for real we lost. We did everything to win in SA. More ft atempts is so important and is winning basketball. This why Kobe and Wade and even Lebron is so hard to defense because they are going to the rim in the 4th. They force the refs to make a call. They are penetraters. Remember, we had Harris and now we have Kidd but we have no more one on one penetraters. Dirk is doing better but he doesn't face you, he goes with his back to you and spins one way or the other. I give him credit, he is trying to penetrate and going towards the basket.

It goes back to us wanting and needing a big penetrating and athletic shooting guard. One that plays defense also. The Spurs do the same thing usually as Kobe, give Gino or Parker the ball in the 4th and let them penetrate or dish inside to Duncan. I think we play more like Detroit. They are very good defenders and have alot of good shooters. We are good and have a shot. I was also impressed with Bass, he played hard and played big. He is really starting to hit that jump shot also but he goes hard for rebounds inside and back up with the ball.

endrity · 03-02-2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

I think in the last game with the Spurs, we shot more ft's than them and on paper we won that game but for real we lost. We did everything to win in SA. More ft atempts is so important and is winning basketball. This why Kobe and Wade and even Lebron is so hard to defense because they are going to the rim in the 4th. They force the refs to make a call. They are penetraters. Remember, we had Harris and now we have Kidd but we have no more one on one penetraters. Dirk is doing better but he doesn't face you, he goes with his back to you and spins one way or the other. I give him credit, he is trying to penetrate and going towards the basket.

It goes back to us wanting and needing a big penetrating and athletic shooting guard. One that plays defense also. The Spurs do the same thing usually as Kobe, give Gino or Parker the ball in the 4th and let them penetrate or dish inside to Duncan.

Didn't we have someone named Josh Howard??? I bet you that guy was a beast going to the basket. Wonder what he is up to these days ... hmmm!!!

Janett_Reno · 03-02-2008, 08:28 PM

If we had a Bowen, it would be a dream come true. Even if the guy could not score a lick but we could bring him in the 4th and slow the Kobe players down some. That is the Spurs ace in the hole and Bowen is old but he is still pretty good doing this.

We tried with Griffin, Buckner, and then Hassell. It would be great if we could find a good defensive wing player and one of the very best defensive players in all college basketball last year. His name was Reyshawn Terry and he has alot of size, one of the fastest guys on he court and jumps like Maxiel. We have him playing in Europe i think and i have no idea how he is doing but i felt like he has a chance of being a Bruce Bowen in the nba. He also flys to the rim like Carter for dunks but you must feed him and he goes up in the clouds and takes it home. Avery doesn't like rookies or younger guys, so i am not sure if he would ever get a chance but yes you guys are so right, we do need a wing guy that can play defense. Even if it was for the 4th quarter.

We win a title if we had a pretty good one against Miami and we would have won this game today with one. It isn't easy for our staff because Terry can shoot but he is small at sg and gives something up on defense. Dirk is a 7 footer and is a power forward and plays like a sg or shooting forward but he is going inside more. Dampier is good on defense but doesn't score, so maybe it is hard to fit all pieces around these type players. I still have hope and feel we can play with any of them.

Janett_Reno · 03-02-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

Didn't we have someone named Josh Howard??? I bet you that guy was a beast going to the basket. Wonder what he is up to these days ... hmmm!!!

You are right. He and Kidd are the ticket to a title. Dirk, Terry are going to score. Dampier is going to play defense and be a load in the middle. What will these other players do? Mostly Howard?

I agree, our ticket is if Josh really steps up on defense like he is very capable of doing. The other is Howard on offense. Not shooting outside and this is even if he scores 25 a game from the outside. This makes us a bombs away team with Terry, Dirk and Howard and no driving to the basket. Even if Howard fouls out the first half, in all honesty i feel our meal ticket is if Howard drives the ball. I have seen him so so good and people fouling him, trying to stop him. Avery must preach this. Josh must penerate and put pressure on these good defenses. Kidd is doing good and driving, then dishing.

So yes i agree with you, i feel most everything hinges on Josh Howard from being good to maybe a great team. Do not get me wrong, he is good now but he can easily be a star and we need this and him doing the things we do not do or have. He is the one that cand do them an it is Averys job to tell him.

Robillion · 03-02-2008, 08:49 PM

For some reason right now I cannot get the possibility (even though a veryverry small one) of getting Marion at some point in exchange for Howard. Just the player we would need to team with Kiddirk. Basically he would be on a Suns-like team that would be much better overall than the Suns.. but he would still have some spotlight since Kidd isnt a big scorer, and Dirk would be the only other consistant scorer. He would be a better defender than anyone we could pick up.. .. i have no idea why Im talking about this. but yeah.. Id push for it every second after the season is up. .. Marion will probably want to leave Miami in free agency, and Miami probably couldnt get anyone better than Howard in exchange. Would also have to add in some others probably to match salary though.

I hope Marion gets upset with Miami and his teammates not caring and publicly says he wants to leave. And I hope Howard goes crazy in the playoffs and gets a couple 40 pt games. .. then yeah people would want to keep him, but look at him throughout the season and see that Marion would bea better fit bar none, and use those 40pt games to make the trade happen. ... and just the idea of the Suns giving up Marion for Shaq and tthat trade not working out for them for Marion to eventually come to Dallas. Oh that would be a riot.

dude1394 · 03-02-2008, 09:06 PM

I think we have a driving power forward the last time I looked. One that get 7.4ft/game versus 8.6 for kobe.

We need to make sure that we keep that guy playing like the guy we've seen the last 5 games.

Underdog · 03-02-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robillion

For some reason right now I cannot get the possibility (even though a veryverry small one) of getting Marion at some point in exchange for Howard. Just the player we would need to team with Kiddirk. Basically he would be on a Suns-like team that would be much better overall than the Suns.. but he would still have some spotlight since Kidd isnt a big scorer, and Dirk would be the only other consistant scorer. He would be a better defender than anyone we could pick up.. .. i have no idea why Im talking about this. but yeah.. Id push for it every second after the season is up. .. Marion will probably want to leave Miami in free agency, and Miami probably couldnt get anyone better than Howard in exchange. Would also have to add in some others probably to match salary though.

I hope Marion gets upset with Miami and his teammates not caring and publicly says he wants to leave. And I hope Howard goes crazy in the playoffs and gets a couple 40 pt games. .. then yeah people would want to keep him, but look at him throughout the season and see that Marion would bea better fit bar none, and use those 40pt games to make the trade happen. ... and just the idea of the Suns giving up Marion for Shaq and tthat trade not working out for them for Marion to eventually come to Dallas. Oh that would be a riot.

My traitor-heart is starting to think the same thing...

(plus, I really want to see D'Antoni's face if Marion hauls us in a Championship after the Suns cut him loose!)

DirkFTW · 03-02-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

My traitor-heart is starting to think the same thing...

(plus, I really want to see D'Antoni's face if Marion hauls us in a Championship after the Suns cut him loose!)

But his shot is soo ugly!

I guess I could buy some vomit bags...

Dirkadirkastan · 03-02-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

We need a Bruce Bowen. That's what we need.

Be glad I like you, because normally I would make someone pay for the mere suggestion that we acquire someone remotely resembling that disgusting piece of horsecrap that is Bruce Bowen.

kingmalaki · 03-03-2008, 12:27 AM

You guys just don't have a player who can check big, athletic guards...that's all. Hell, a team can't have everything....

BGMaverick9 · 03-03-2008, 12:52 AM

Well, the first step of your Marion dream is starting. He's already started to call out his teammates for their lack of desire. I can't imagine that he walks away from the pay-day though, unless he is certain he'll get it somewhere else.

If a deal was out there for Marion for Howard/filler, I'll take it and run.

horse900703 · 03-03-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Lakers shot 50 Free throws. Think about that.

WOW....................

LonghornDub · 03-03-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Be glad I like you, because normally I would make someone pay for the mere suggestion that we acquire someone remotely resembling that disgusting piece of horsecrap that is Bruce Bowen.

Fair enough, let me rephrase--we need a player who is versatile and tenacious enough to defend all sorts of swingmen, sort of like Bruce Bowen--but without the UFC tactics.