Some preliminary thoughts about the offseason...

[kg_veteran]

I haven't had a chance to sit and fully digest what I think the Mavs need to do in the offseason, but my initial thoughts are that Howard is the main trade bait, with Stackhouse potentially having some value as a semi-expiring contract. This is the way I see the roster heading into the offseason:

Dampier - ?
Nowitzki - Bass
? - Wright
? - Terry
Kidd - Terry - Barea

George, Jones, Juwan Howard, Allen, Magloire, and Lue should all be sent packing. If they can be used in trades, fine. I might keep Lue or Allen around if necessary to fill out the roster.

I think that one key need on this team is a PF/C type who can play 30 minutes a game and be a scoring threat. The other key need I see is a legitimate (not 6'1") starting SG who can get to the basket and/or create off the dribble. The way I see it, there are two potential ways of approaching the roster holes. Under either approach, Brandon Bass becomes the starting SF (hopefully after an offseason conditioning and training program that prepares him for the role):

First way
1. Try to acquire a pretty good PF/C type (e.g. Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand, Emeka Okafor) using Howard as the centerpiece of a trade package;
2. Use the MLE to sign a starting SG (e.g. Mikael Pietrus, Josh Childress) (It should be noted that the FA crop of MLE-type SGs is pretty weak).

O'Neal - Dampier
Nowitzki - Bass
Bass - Wright
Pietrus - Terry
Kidd - Terry

Second way
1. Try to acquire a pretty good SG (e.g. Maggette, Miller, perhaps even McGrady) using Howard as the centerpiece of a trade package;
2. Use the MLE to sign a PF/C type (the crop of MLE PF/C types who can score at all is even weaker; in fact, I can't name one, so you might have to beg Diop to come back);

Dampier - Diop
Nowitzki - Bass
Bass - Wright
Maggette - Terry
Kidd - Terry

I prefer the first approach, even if it's riskier. I don't know if you can get Brand or Okafor and I think O'Neal is pretty risky, but if you're going to try and win now, you're going to have to take risks. Playing it safe will get you nowhere fast in the vicious West...

[rmacomic]

Okafor would be great, I've always tought that guy would be an all-star on a different team.

[BGMaverick9]

I don't think option 1 is very likely unless you're wanting to deal Josh and Kidd. Combo perimeter players (or pretend ones) are much easier to find than quality big men. So I would say option 2 is your route.

[SeriousSummer]

I doubt Bass can defend small forwards--although it would be nice if he could.

[cinemablend]

Haven't we seen Bass defend small forwards pretty well?

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by cinemablend

Haven't we seen Bass defend small forwards pretty well?

I'm not trying to be a d-bag, I'm just not sure...what are the examples?

[dalmations202]

Number 1 is the way to go. (IF they can get a Brand, Okafor, JO).

Not sure exactly how to get it done, but it is the way to go.

Either that, or see if you can revisit the Terry/Magette deal, move Howard/Stack for JONeil and then use the MLE on a shooter (6th man). Resign Wright, Lue, Allen.

[jthig32]

I am completely uninterested in Jermaine O'Neal. He just can't stay healthy. Too much of a risk.

[Dirkenstien]

I think Jermaine Oneal might be a nice fit here, although there is no doubt there is a lot of risk in that. Still, Dirk has never been paired up with a dominant front court back to the basket player and with Howard on the tading block this could be our best opportunity to see that come to fruition.

Look at what Kidd has done with Dampier, now imagine what he could do with a healthy O'Neal.

Also, I would love to see Bass at the 3 because he gives us a lot of strength and versatility at that position. He would basically be able to post up any opponent at that spot.

Good ideas, KG.

[jthig32]

O'Neal is the perfect example of people getting all hot and bothered by "inside scoring" when in reality he's a significantly less efficient scorer than Dirk. Throwing the ball into O'Neal and letting him work is not a real effiicient way to score, just ask the Pacers.

Now, a healthy O'Neal WOULD be a nice addition to the team because he's a very capable defender and is still a threat offensively. I would LOVE to add a completely healthy O'Neal to this team, but not because he's a "low post scorer" but rather because he brings defense on par with Damp but is not an offensive liability.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by jthig32

O'Neal is the perfect example of people getting all hot and bothered by "inside scoring" when in reality he's a significantly less efficient scorer than Dirk. Throwing the ball into O'Neal and letting him work is not a real effiicient way to score, just ask the Pacers.

Now, a healthy O'Neal WOULD be a nice addition to the team because he's a very capable defender and is still a threat offensively. I would LOVE to add a completely healthy O'Neal to this team, but not because he's a "low post scorer" but rather because he brings defense on par with Damp but is not an offensive liability.

I'm not sure what you're saying Thig. On one hand you say O'Neal is not efficient scoring down low and on the other hand you say he isn't a liability on the offensive end.

I'm not sure why you think O'Neal is not an efficient scorer down low. He is a terrific back to the basket player, he has soft hands and he is athletic and strong enough to get position down low and slam it home.

No one is saying that Jermaine is as efficient a scorer as Dirk but he is an tremendous upgrade to what we have now and would give us a great low post option.

Here's a video of him after coming back from injury this season. Just watch how right when he catches the ball the entire defense gravitates toward him, freeing everyone up on the perimeter:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRX9G...eature=related

Can you imagine throwing Dirk in that scenario where he could just stand there facing the basket ready to catch and shoot?

[ghazi]

I have some concerns with those scenarios.

Bass as SF. I don't know, would it work?

Perimeter shooting- we wouldn't really be acquiring any shooting in those deals even though it's sorely needed

O'Neal, can he stay healthy? how do we even trade for his albatross contract?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I'm not sure what you're saying Thig. On one hand you say O'Neal is not efficient scoring down low and on the other hand you say he isn't a liability on the offensive end.

I'm not sure why you think O'Neal is not an efficient scorer down low. He is a terrific back to the basket player, he has soft hands and he is athletic and strong enough to get position down low and slam it home.

No one is saying that Jermaine is as efficient a scorer as Dirk but he is an tremendous upgrade to what we have now and would give us a great low post option.

Here's a video of him after coming back from injury this season. Just watch how right when he catches the ball the entire defense gravitates toward him, freeing everyone up on the perimeter:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRX9G...eature=related

Can you imagine throwing Dirk in that scenario where he could just stand there facing the basket ready to catch and shoot?

My point is that what makes Jermain O'Neal desireable is his combination of defense along with "good" offense. Not great, good.

Just the fact that he simply scores from the post does not make him desireable to me. Dirk is our efficient scorer. He is our go to scorer. I am not concerned with finding someone that we can dump the ball into down low, because they will almost certainly be less effective and efficient scorers than Dirk.

Jermain O'Neal has never had a true shooting percentage above 53% or a PER above 22. I do not want him so that I can run my offense through him.

Edit: And by the way, I am not merely using numbers to assess O'Neal. I've watched quite a few of his games because I was a big Reggie Miller fan while he was still playing and have watched many, many Pacer games.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by ghazi

O'Neal, can he stay healthy? how do we even trade for his albatross contract?

It depends on the rules.

From what I can tell the only two options where we would be able to do that and hold on to Dirk (obviously) and Kidd are:

Option #1 would be to throw someone like George in via a sign and trade. The potential problem here, however, is I'm not sure if a team can use a sign and traded player as part of a package sending out multple players. If it is okay then we could do a deal like this:
Dallas Gets:
Jermaine O'Neal ($19..71 mil)
Indiana Gets:
Josh Howard ($9 mil)
Jerry Stackhouse (expiring contract after season, $6.75 mil)
Devean George (S&T with a 1 or 2 year contract worth about $3.5 mil per season)

Option 2 is we would have to include Damp in the deal and convince them to take on Damp's contract. This might be a tough sell because Damp's contract runs through the 2011-12 season whereas Jermaine's comes off the books after the 2010-11 season, although Damp still makes approximately $10 mil les per season than Jermaine. You never know if they would mind taking on Damp because they may have a need for a bruiser down low once O'Neal leaves. If Indiana did agree to take Damp in a deal we could do this:
Dallas Gets:
Jermaine O'Neal
Indiana Gets:
Josh Howard ($9 mil)
Erick Dampier (8.6 mil)
Eddie Jones (If he takes the player option and comes back his contract will expire after next season)

...but if Jones decides he doesn't want to come back we would have to throw Stack in the deal and take back one of these players: (Daniels/Tinsley/Foster) to make the numbers work.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by jthig32

My point is that what makes Jermain O'Neal desireable is his combination of defense along with "good" offense. Not great, good.

Just the fact that he simply scores from the post does not make him desireable to me. Dirk is our efficient scorer. He is our go to scorer. I am not concerned with finding someone that we can dump the ball into down low, because they will almost certainly be less effective and efficient scorers than Dirk.

Jermain O'Neal has never had a true shooting percentage above 53% or a PER above 22. I do not want him so that I can run my offense through him.

Edit: And by the way, I am not merely using numbers to assess O'Neal. I've watched quite a few of his games because I was a big Reggie Miller fan while he was still playing and have watched many, many Pacer games.

I see what you're saying and I agree. We don't really want to bring in someone who is just going to dominate the ball all the time and take shots from Dirk, but at the same time we want someone who can hold his own on the offensive end while being able to contribute more in other areas (defense/rebounding).

I think right now it looks like O'Neal is our best option to accomplish this. These kind of players come at a premium and although there are some serious risks involved with taking O'Neal due to his injuries we're only going to get so much in return for the dwindling Howard.

[Dirkenstien]

I just read something on a forum and wasn't sure if it was true: Damp's last year in his contract is not guaranteed unless he makes the All-Star team next season.

Anyone know?

[jthig32]

Someone asked about this in it's own thread earlier. I remember at the time it was reported that there were qualifications on Damp's final year, but I don't remember what they are.

[chumdawg]

As I recall, there were a fews he could get the last year guaranteed, but there were all less likely than, say, bats flying out of his ass.

[Dirkenstien]

Well if that's the case it seems Indiana would be more inclined to take him back in a deal.

[Robillion]

Think about this Oneal idea everyone.. you are talking about giving up yet another young player... that under another coach could still turn out to be totally different than this year and thrive in years to come.. for another old, injury prone, risk player. I dont want to do that even if he would be great for us in the "now". We have done it already. I guess you could argue that in the case that , "hey, we'll be competitive now and then be in a good position with Kidd and Oneals expiring contracts as trade bait/cap relief", but Id rather start doing things for our future now than make our team even older/more risky next year. I just have a feeling that everyone that is for someone like Oneal right now, if we got him, would regret it in little time, a la Jason Kidd.

Let me clear this up though.. I am fully for trading Josh Howard, but we need to get younger.. in which case if we went for a low post presence, I would be allll for getting Emeka Okafor. I think he could be much better than he already is, with another team. .. Let's present the idea of Howard and Terry + money or whatever else if needed for J-Rich and Emeka to Larry Brown and see if he forces the trade like he likes to do. I would actually like to see a lineup of Kidd, J-Rich, Bass, Dirk, Emeka more than anything.

[a.weidner]

What about Ricky Davis? I know the guy is a piece of work, but since we can't stand pat and have to take some chances and since we definitely could use an increase in talent, I'm wondering why I haven't seen him mentioned as a possibility to spend our MLE on. I don't know if he would be willing to take the MLE (can't picture him getting substantially more than that) and if he would even be interested in coming to Dallas right now, but we probably are one of the few good teams that could offer him a pretty safe spot in the starting lineup (even if we were to actually keep Josh).

On a sidenote: with Miami in rebuilding mode, we could also think about moving Kidd's expiring contract to Miami for, let's say, Marion + Blount and then trade Josh for a starting PG, or some quality roleplayers.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Robillion

Think about this Oneal idea everyone.. you are talking about giving up yet another young player... that under another coach could still turn out to be totally different than this year and thrive in years to come.. for another old, injury prone, risk player. I dont want to do that even if he would be great for us in the "now". We have done it already. I guess you could argue that in the case that , "hey, we'll be competitive now and then be in a good position with Kidd and Oneals expiring contracts as trade bait/cap relief", but Id rather start doing things for our future now than make our team even older/more risky next year. I just have a feeling that everyone that is for someone like Oneal right now, if we got him, would regret it in little time, a la Jason Kidd.

Let me clear this up though.. I am fully for trading Josh Howard, but we need to get younger.. in which case if we went for a low post presence, I would be allll for getting Emeka Okafor. I think he could be much better than he already is, with another team. .. Let's present the idea of Howard and Terry + money or whatever else if needed for J-Rich and Emeka to Larry Brown and see if he forces the trade like he likes to do. I would actually like to see a lineup of Kidd, J-Rich, Bass, Dirk, Emeka more than anything.

Love the idea of Okafor, but I just don't see him really available.

[wmbwinn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
O'Neal is the perfect example of people getting all hot and bothered by "inside scoring" when in reality he's a significantly less efficient scorer than Dirk. Throwing the ball into O'Neal and letting him work is not a real effiicient way to score, just ask the Pacers.

Now, a healthy O'Neal WOULD be a nice addition to the team because he's a very capable defender and is still a threat offensively. I would LOVE to add a completely healthy O'Neal to this team, but not because he's a "low post scorer" but rather because he brings defense on par with Damp but is not an offensive liability.


Dirkinstein:
I'm not sure what you're saying Thig. On one hand you say O'Neal is not efficient scoring down low and on the other hand you say he isn't a liability on the offensive end.

I'm not sure why you think O'Neal is not an efficient scorer down low. He is a terrific back to the basket player, he has soft hands and he is athletic and strong enough to get position down low and slam it home.

No one is saying that Jermaine is as efficient a scorer as Dirk but he is an tremendous upgrade to what we have now and would give us a great low post option.

__________________________

You have to think about what happens if Dirk and JO are on the floor together. JO may not be Tim Duncan ever. But, my gosh, if you put both of them on the floor, there will be no double teaming either one. And, Dallas will finally have someone who can pose a threat in the low post. And, JO is no sloucher on defense and rebounding.

Heck, we could play Utah style. Play Dampier as center, JO as PF, Dirk as SF. Pick a SG. Play Kidd.

I like the idea of picking up JO enough that I would trade Kidd straight up for him.

As far as I know, there has never in the history of the NBA been a team that won the Championship without a low post offensive threat. Am I wrong?

I think the Dallas team that lost to Riley's Heat was the best all time NBA team that did not have a low post scoring threat. I think that that series is proof that a championship is very unlikely without a low post scoring threat.

What did the genius Riley do to beat the Mavs four game straight after falling down 2-0?

He put Shaq on the bench (did Kerr and the Suns not see that playoff championship series???) and played Alonzo Mourning. He told Zo to ignore Dampier and constantly double Dirk whether he had the ball or not. He realized that even if Dampier scored ten points, it would not matter. Zo played Dirk on the rim side and the guards/forwards took Dirk's front. Dallas immediately became a desperate jump shot team that could not penetrate and could not score in the paint.

Put JO on that team and the Mavs steam roll over the Heat.

[foglemann]

Whatever trade yields me something instead of J Ho, I'm down with. You cannot bring back a player that has that attitude.

[Robillion]

I think the Pacers take a Kidd or J Ho for Oneal in a heartbeat.... I would not do it.

Also, dalmations about Emeka... from my understanding, Emeka Okafor and Larry Brown arent exactly on good terms with one another. Also, I do believe there were already talks about moving him/him not interested in being there anymore and leaving during FA. I think it could be his time to go and I want the Mavs to be the team to grab him up. .. and Especially over JO.

[dalmations202]

I'd take Okafor, JO, and several others. Just a player that keeps Dirk facing up as he should be, and keeps bigs from doubling Dirk AND can be the last line of defense that Dirk is NOT.

JO seems to be the most likely one to be able to get, but I wouldn't be upset if it was Okafor or Dwight Howard (LOL) or Greg Oden, or Bosh or Aldridge or Chandler/West or Yao, or you get the picture.

[wmbwinn]

I would trade anyone we have except Dirk to get JO or Okafor.

You may remember that this was Nellie's wet dream all those years ago. He called it the "double PF" strategy. We just need a low post man to complement Dirk.

And, that low post man is more important than Kidd or JHo or any other player not named Dirk.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

I would trade anyone we have except Dirk to get JO or Okafor.

You may remember that this was Nellie's wet dream all those years ago. He called it the "double PF" strategy. We just need a low post man to complement Dirk.

And, that low post man is more important than Kidd or JHo or any other player not named Dirk.

That is what the Celtics did with Bird, McHale and Parish.

[V2M]

Go "First Way"...

JON-Damp
Dirk-Bass
Bass-Pietrus
Pietrus-Terry
Kidd-Terry

That 7-man rotation (if healthy, of course!) would be tough to beat in a 7-game series. On offense, they can score inside or out. They can run or play in the half-court. And on defense and rebounding, they might easily be one of the best, if not THE best in the league!