Josh and Coach spend some quality time together. - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 05-18-2008, 08:52 PM

I'd also like to see something to confirm this idea that Howard can be randomly tested at any time. That doesn't seem to mesh with the sense I have of the current labor agreement.

dude1394 · 05-18-2008, 08:57 PM

I can't provide it, it was just a comment from bob sturm.

BGMaverick9 · 05-18-2008, 09:03 PM

I don't think he can be tested randomly outside of the nba season-calendar.

jthig32 · 05-18-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'd also like to see something to confirm this idea that Howard can be randomly tested at any time. That doesn't seem to mesh with the sense I have of the current labor agreement.

Quote:

D. Testing of Vetern Players

Veteran players can be tested once during training camp, or, if a player reports during the season or with less than 15 days remaining in training camp, once during the first 15 days after he reports to his team. All such tests are at the discretion of the NBA and without prior notice to the player.

Quote:

B. Reasonable Cause Testing of All Players

If the NBA or NBPA receives information that provides reasonable cause of a player's use, possession or distribution of a prohibited substance, the NBA or NBPA will request a hearing with the other party and the Independent Expert within 24 hours of the receipt of that information. At that hearing, the Independent Expert will decide whether reasonable cause exists, and if it does exist, will issue an authorization for testing. After an authorization for testing is issued, the NBA will arrange for testing of the player four times during the next six weeks.
If the NBA or NBPA believe that there is sufficient evidence of a player's use, possession or distribution of a prohibited substance, the matter may be taken directly to the league's Grievance Arbitrator. If the Grievance Arbitrator determines that the player has used or possessed amphetamine and its analogs, cocaine, LSD, opiates or PCP, or has distributed any prohibited substance, he will be dismissed and disqualified from the NBA.

Link

chumdawg · 05-18-2008, 10:09 PM

Thanks for the link, thiggy. I'm curious how you interpret that. I'm not sure yet how I do.

I guess while we're at it...are we certain that marijuana is a "prohibited substance" in the labor agreement?

jthig32 · 05-18-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Thanks for the link, thiggy. I'm curious how you interpret that. I'm not sure yet how I do.

I guess while we're at it...are we certain that marijuana is a "prohibited substance" in the labor agreement?

See, that's an interesting question.

This says weed is prohibited:

Quote:

1. Prohibited Substances

The following substances are prohibited under the program: amphetamine and its analogs, cocaine, LSD, opiates (heroin, codeine and morphine), PCP, marijuana, and steroids.

However the rest of the document doesn't mention weed along with the rest. Really strange.

If we are to assume that weed is in fact tested for, then I inpretet as the players are tested once during training camp, and can not be tested again unless there is "Reasonable Cause".

chumdawg · 05-18-2008, 10:26 PM

Sounds like you need to be clean in training camp, and that's about it. If matters escalate to the level that they want to bring in the Independent Expert and such, you need to be clean for six weeks only (and that's if you lose).

You can see how a lot of NBA players smoke weed and it's not a big deal.

BGMaverick9 · 05-18-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Sounds like you need to be clean in training camp, and that's about it. If matters escalate to the level that they want to bring in the Independent Expert and such, you need to be clean for six weeks only (and that's if you lose).

You can see how a lot of NBA players smoke weed and it's not a big deal.

That sounds about right. He was pretty clear cut about how he does it in the offseason, so he's either a moron or understands the loophole in the system and works it for his advantage.

Or...he could be both!

foglemann · 05-19-2008, 12:13 PM

Isn't Josh admitting he's a pot smoker create probable cause for the testing at anytime?

sike · 05-19-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglemann

Isn't Josh admitting he's a pot smoker create probable cause for the testing at anytime?

Someone who knows needs to answer this question: "Can the NBA test you in the off season?"

seelenjaeger · 05-19-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddh33

I hope things work themselves out for the best of the Mavs, however that happens...

Look, we can talk about all of the guys to target, but every one of them has some sizable flaws - just like Josh.

Shawn Marion is interesting because he is a horse. The guy runs all day long, defends a bunch of positions, and rebounds like a center. But he's not exactly an offensive juggernaut. He gets his points mostly off of junk. While that is a great skill, and one I really appreciate, I think this team needs someone you can sometimes give the ball to and ask them to make something for themselves. I don't think you can do that with Marion.

Michael Redd has been brought up. He's a guy who I think would really help your offense. He can score the ball, but he doesn't bring you much else, and I think your roster takes a step back because you are less versatile, and you aren't nearly as good defensively.

Corey Maggette is a big-time scorer who likes to run. He can also create for himself and get to the line. But he reminds me of Stack in a lot of ways. One of these days, his athleticism is going to leave him. In the meantime, he isn't a great defender, and he sometimes focuses on only one end of the floor.

Jermaine O'Neal could bring you some interior scoring and defense. He would certainly change the look of your team, but he hasn't been healthy in a long time, and if you did move Josh for him, you are weaker on the perimeter.

I'll stop there, but my point is, there really isn't a perfect match. There are some things I would seriously think about doing in combination with other moves, but you have to be sure.

Meanwhile, you've got a guy on your team who can play some isolation basketball and go get something for himself when nothing else is available. He can defend three or four positions very well. He can rebound well for his size and position. He can run the floor, even though he hasn't been asked to do it in a long time. I just think it's very possible that the best guy for this team is Josh Howard. But Josh has to have his head on right for that to be the case. If he's going to play like he did late in the season, any of the guys mentioned will be upgrades. But I think it's a great idea to put Josh and Rick Carlisle into a room together and let them get used to each othe r because, in more ways than one, I think Josh Howard is the key to these Mavs.

That´s a very good analysis, but it shows one thing:

This team has exactly the players around who are "designed" for what we´re used to see on the court. It has some big holes (Stack losing ... uhm ... his athleticism, George losing ... let´s not get into details here ... us losing Diop, et al), but it is DESIGNED around Dirk, some explosive but D-capable swingman, some creating swingman, a driving PG, and a jacking-up-treys guard bunch.

I think that´s the very reason we WILL see alot of player movement (if possible) in the off season. This team will be designed in a different way. I think Josh and Stack (and probably Terry, even Damp?) will be sent packing to get this team a new concept.

Ball movement offense, Pick N´Rolls, Spot up Shooters, a team-concept Defense ... there´s alot of possibiliites around the skills of Dirk, Kidd, and (because I consider him untradeable) Damp.

I think Marion would be a great complimentary guy IF we get some true shooting swingmen. If we get guys like the former Mavs Hubert Davis or volume scorers to sign for the Mavs via FA (or trade, I´m thinking of maybe Larry Hughes?), or even if we keep Terry, Marion gives us a huge upside over pretty much every team in the league:

We might get 55-60% of overall rebounds, even without the 2-guard grabbing anything having Kidd, Dirk and Damp alongside Marion.

Scoring has to come from ball movement then - and if not, we could simply limit the number of 2nd chance points and play Dirk Isos all night long.

If we get a guy like Redd or Magette in exchange for something, that gives us offensive firepower to create. Makes things alot easier, and Ricks focus has to be establishing a team defense concept, while letting lose of offense.

If we somehow try to go for depth (Lee and something out of New York? 2-3 4-7 guys from Chicago?) by moving Howard, it will be alot of Dirk in Isos, Pick´n´Rolls and the occasional fast break of some athletic swingman fed by Kidd.

I don´t think Carlisle thinks very highly of the concept this team was built upon, though the players we have are really (having their flaws and such) extremely handpicked for that system.

The one "key guy" coming to Mavs - whatever path we´re getting him - will point the way we will go. If that guy is a ron Artest via Free Agency (opting out and signing for the MLE), then that´s a sign that Carlisle will continue the Avery built - just with a better concept of offense and leadership. But if there´s a real MOVE the Mavs are making, the team will see most of the guys playing different than they´ve done under Avery (well, if the are physically and mentally able to do so), and there will be a new use for everyone - including Dirk - in the new season.

Evilmav2 · 05-19-2008, 12:32 PM

Hopefully Josh's game and production will be greatly improved before next February 20. If not April 20...

LSMF · 05-19-2008, 12:33 PM

^Hubert Davis?? Really?

seelenjaeger · 05-19-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Someone who knows needs to answer this question: "Can the NBA test you in the off season?"

Actually you´d think that the National Anti Doping Agency of the US -should- be able to perform (doping) testing at any time (in- and off-season) for Athletes eligible to play at international events like the WCH or the olympics. That´d rule out most hard drugs including cocaine and stuff (and Steroids and stuff), not too sure if weed is covered.

At least that´s how it is handled over here in Europe under common anti-doping agreements.