GDT 12/19/2008 | 7:30pm ET | Mavs @ Nets

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Devin was awesome, though to some extent played over his head. He was 5-8 on 3's. Still, he's clearly become a very, very good player.

Kidd was fine. Made some nice plays. Terry was stellar offensively, as always. Basically everybody else had a bad game. Howard was completely non existent.

Oh, and the Mavs couldn't defend worth a damn, and even when they did, Harris or Vincanity were hitting everything they shot.

Thanks.

5-8 on 3s does seem like you're feeling it. Not out of the realm of possibilities, but definitely locked in.

Dirk did most of his damage then from the line tonight...Bad shot selection or off night?

Who had most of the run on guarding Devin and VC?

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

If Jthig doesn't give us a recap thread...can someone fill me in on what happened tonight?

All I could see was the boxscore, that doesn't always tell the story though.

Thanks.

To say it short and simple: Josh and Dirk were awful. Josh wasn't even visible on the floor and Dirk a shadow of himself. Yes, he scored 24, but still. 6-19??? 10-13 from the line, although he's averaging 92% this season? Sorry, but that's crap. Additionally our whole defense was a piece of shit. Maybe my "recap" doesn't deserve the title, but currently I'm pretty frustrated and trying to recover by drinking beer...

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Yeah, we got handled in that game.

That's really what bothers me. It's not about the trade. The Mavs just haven't been the same the past couple years, despite having mostly the same core. You can't even argue that losing Harris was the difference, because he didn' teven start to play that much until 06-07.

What eats at me is how the Damp/Diop-Dirk-Josh-Jet core has fallen so far in just a couple of years (in terms of winning games, not as individuals--except Diop). It makes no sense.

Not really.

1, the rest of the league has gotten stronger.
2, the cast has gotten weaker (Stack, the rest of the bench and the coaches, from losing Del Harris to losing the first/early Avery Johnson, who was arguably the best HC in Mavs history for the time and place of the franchise, to psycho Avery and OK but nothing special Rick).
3, almost all our main horses are 30 and up. That's the wrong side to be even if it's just barely. This was the note on the Pistons the last couple years ("it's the same faces and they're all still capable but they're not the same!"). The league is close enough to smell a couple drops of blood. Like it's been said, it's an upgrade business, and unless you're improving your team every year, your players better be improving themselves every year and if they're not doing that, they better be playing better with each other every year at least. I don't think any of the three have occurred the last two years for the Pistons or the Mavericks.
4, confidence. Adversity has kicked this team's ass time and time again (main reason we got Kidd, no bullshit) and who can say playing new all-world Devin Harris didn't put a crinkle or a pause in our flow once he got going?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

If Jthig doesn't give us a recap thread...can someone fill me in on what happened tonight?

All I could see was the boxscore, that doesn't always tell the story though.

Thanks.

Nets had everything going.

Harris toyed with Kidd and the rest of the Mavs while scoring at will.

Dirk didn't drive one time in the first half. Settled for too many jumpers.

JHo brought very little, and settle for way too many J's and brought back his patented step back air ball that every one loves so much.

Kidd kinda brought it, but his efforts were severely overshadowed.

Everytime we got close (within 8-10) Devin and VC went and broke the D down with ease to push it back to a 15+lead.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Not really.

One, the rest of the league has gotten stronger.
Two, the cast has gotten weaker (Stack, the rest of the bench and the coaches, from losing Del Harris to losing the first/early Avery Johnson, who was arguably the best HC in Mavs history for the time and place of the franchise, to psycho Avery and OK but nothing special Rick).
Three, almost all our main horses are 30 and up. That's the wrong side to be even if it's just barely. This was the note on the Pistons the last couple years ("it's the same faces and they're all still capable but they're not the same!"). The league is close enough to smell a couple drops of blood. Like it's been said, it's an upgrade business, and unless you're improving your team every year, your players better be improving themselves every year and if they're not doing that, they better be playing better with each other every year at least. I don't think any of the three have occurred the last two years for the Pistons or the Mavericks.
Four, confidence. Adversity has kicked this team's ass time and time again (main reason we got Kidd, no bullshit) and who can say playing new all-world Devin Harris didn't put a crinkle or a pause in our flow once he got going?

I disagree completely on point 3, as I don't think 2 years makes any difference for anyone except Stack. 4 is debatable, though I'm inclined to agree that their confidence has been shot for a few years.

The other points are obviously correct, but that doesn't change what I said. There's no reason for the Mavs to be this much worse--it doesn't make sense. I'm not talking about losing to the Lakers, or the Spurs, or whatever. I'm talking about the difficulty in beating the Thunder, the Clippers, getting manhandled by the Nets, etc.

There's no good, tangible reason for it. It's sad.

[Bayliss]

The Mavs were:

rhymes with duck

rhymes with athletic

rhymes with happy

rhymes with titty

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

The Mavs were:

rhymes with duck

rhymes with athletic

rhymes with happy

rhymes with titty

Pretty good juan.

Got me for a minute with the athletic one.

[ghazi]

The tone has been set for the season.

There are no corners to be turned with the current roster.

We may have a 5 game win streak here, an 8-2 stretch there, but this who we are. A mediocre team that's unspectacular in nearly every facet of the game.

It pains me to say this about our beloved Mavs, but that's just what I see with our eyes.

We look like we may miss the playoffs, or sneak into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed and lose very quickly, and very painfully. That's just how I see it, this team doesn't look like it's capable of winning a playoff series, let alone 4 (that IS what we want, right? A title? Or at this point would we consider it a successful year if we just won ONE playoff series?)

We thought a corner was turned when we had that 11-2 stretch just a few games ago... but then again have been reminded of the mediocrity we saw in the first 9 games of the season, shooting 35% against the Nuggets, and losing by 24 to the Nets.

We need a trade, badly... it's gonna be hard to get excited about the current standpoint, as far as them being a contender.

And this pains me

I will follow the Mavs to the gates of hell, but my heart aches right now, badly.

It's not knee jerk, it's just a slap in the face. Even in quite a few of our wins, we exhibited a mediocre brand of basketball... 35% v the Nugs and 24 loss to the Nets is a rude, RUDE awakening and confirmation.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Thanks.

5-8 on 3s does seem like you're feeling it. Not out of the realm of possibilities, but definitely locked in.

Dirk did most of his damage then from the line tonight...Bad shot selection or off night?

Who had most of the run on guarding Devin and VC?

Definitely an off night, but the shoot over the defender while standing still was his favorite tonight and he way overused it, especially after going 1-5 or 1-6. He didn't drive one time until the 2nd half sometime.

[Bayliss]

Why does it pain you to say they need a trade? They do need a trade. But even after the Kidd trade the Mavs have needed a trade. That's okay. I think getting Kidd was okay because it forced Avery out of town. The problem is keeping it the same. Trade either Howard/Diop/Stack/Bass and get a useful 2/3 or a center.

[bernardos70]

Like that famous little song, I've become Comfortably Numb.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by ghazi

The tone has been set for the season.

There are no corners to be turned with the current roster.

We may have a 5 game win streak here, an 8-2 stretch there, but this who we are. A mediocre team that's unspectacular in nearly every facet of the game.

It pains me to say this about our beloved Mavs, but that's just what I see with our eyes.

this is what I see -- it's what I was seeing last season too. there's no coaching strategy or x's and o's adjustment or isolated roster/rotation change that will make things better. it pains me as well.

[ghazi]

It pains me that we don't look like a team that's a piece away from being elite .

A trade may make us slightly better, but close the gap between us and the Cavs/Celtics/Lakers? I doubt it

2 notches below those teams, and 1 notch below 4-5 other teams... we look like the 9th or 10th best team in the NBA, that's what pains me

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by ghazi

The tone has been set for the season.

There are no corners to be turned with the current roster.

We may have a 5 game win streak here, an 8-2 stretch there, but this who we are. A mediocre team that's unspectacular in nearly every facet of the game.

It pains me to say this about our beloved Mavs, but that's just what I see with our eyes.

We look like we may miss the playoffs, or sneak into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed and lose very quickly, and very painfully. That's just how I see it, this team doesn't look like it's capable of winning a playoff series, let alone 4 (that IS what we want, right? A title? Or at this point would we consider it a successful year if we just won ONE playoff series?)

We thought a corner was turned when we had that 11-2 stretch just a few games ago... but then again have been reminded of the mediocrity we saw in the first 9 games of the season, shooting 35% against the Nuggets, and losing by 24 to the Nets.

We need a trade, badly... it's gonna be hard to get excited about the current standpoint, as far as them being a contender.

And this pains me

I will follow the Mavs to the gates of hell, but my heart aches right now, badly.

It's not knee jerk, it's just a slap in the face. Even in quite a few of our wins, we exhibited a mediocre brand of basketball... 35% v the Nugs and 24 loss to the Nets is a rude, RUDE awakening and confirmation.

Contender..LOL

I'm not sure how FO could continue on with this roster. Regardless of what moves they end up making (SG) I think the worst is to stand pat. Something has got to give, this is horribly painful.

[ghazi]

I didn't suggest we were contenders, I am unexcited about the fact that we're not contenders .

Every franchise has its peaks and valleys. But so quickly? With Dirk in his prime still? . With a hall of fame point guard? With our beloved Jet on the runway :P?

*sigh* *sigh* *sigh*

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by ghazi

It pains me that we don't look like a team that's a piece away from being elite .

A trade may make us slightly better, but close the gap between us and the Cavs/Celtics/Lakers? I doubt it

2 notches below those teams, and 1 notch below 4-5 other teams... we look like the 9th or 10th best team in the NBA, that's what pains me

mediocrity is something i'd wish only on my worst enemy. it's like hell, but just tolerable enough to ride it out in the vein and enslaving hope things will get better. i'm despondent over the state of the mavs, and that's why i'm such a bitch and can only say negative things about them these days.

[Silk Smoov]

Just a question:

Should we go ahead and trade Dirk and get some serious young talent in here, plus some draft picks? Or should we just find a way to trade Dirk and Howard and just dump salary, and get ready for FA and bring Bosh to Dallas to play at home? Not for sure about Deron, but it sure would be nice to have Deron and Bosh here back home leading the Mavs...Plus we can dump salary with Kidd as well..Just a thought, because I dont see a way for us to make a trade and get better this year..

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by ghazi

I didn't suggest we were contenders, I am unexcited about the fact that we're not contenders .

Yes, that's why I put the smiley.

[Dim499]

Back in the Bennett Salvatore game of '06 finals fame, when Wade got 25 free throws, Devin had 6, 1, 1 and 1 steal on 2 of 12 shooting in 34 minutes. Who could have seen this coming back then.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Dim499

Back in the Bennett Salvatore game of '06 finals fame, when Wade got 25 free throws, Devin had 6, 1, 1 and 1 steal on 2 of 12 shooting in 34 minutes. Who could have seen this coming back then.

It wasn't just that, either. Devin was terrible against the Warriors.

I've got to be honest, though--I'm glad to see him doing well. It doesn't make me regret anything, it just makes me glad to know that a good young kid like him is having so much success.

Maybe that's just me.

[ghazi]

If Bennett Salvatore didn't blow that damn whistle of his I wouldn't feel nearly as badly about the current state of the Mavs as I do.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dim499

Back in the Bennett Salvatore game of '06 finals fame, when Wade got 25 free throws, Devin had 6, 1, 1 and 1 steal on 2 of 12 shooting in 34 minutes. Who could have seen this coming back then.

No one. Especially the Nets!

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Contender..LOL

I'm not sure how FO could continue on with this roster. Regardless of what moves they end up making (SG) I think the worst is to stand pat. Something has got to give, this is horribly painful.

We like our team!!!!! We don't care about winning with our team, just making enough money to bid for the Cubs, but hey, We like our team!!!!!

[Dim499]

Who's in charge of the thread tags? They're hilarious.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Just a question:

Should we go ahead and trade Dirk and get some serious young talent in here, plus some draft picks? Or should we just find a way to trade Dirk and Howard and just dump salary, and get ready for FA and bring Bosh to Dallas to play at home? Not for sure about Deron, but it sure would be nice to have Deron and Bosh here back home leading the Mavs...Plus we can dump salary with Kidd as well..Just a thought, because I dont see a way for us to make a trade and get better this year..

I think it's still too soon to just fully blow it up, trading Dirk for a young talent that still needs time and picks is blowing it up.

I see a way for us to make a trade and get better, but the FO is stubborn on keeping Howard. Howard is the key piece/next domino to fall if a trade is made...but I don't see the FO budging on that that.

[chumdawg]

Look, you nelliepants little bitches. We just lost ONE road game. Big freakin' deal. If you haven't noticed, we have played some pretty damn good ball over the course of the last month or so. Roll up your nuts and cry for mama if you like, but I suspect there are twelve or so guys in Mavericks jerseys who aren't ready to mail it in like you seem to be.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Look, you nelliepants little bitches. We just lost ONE road game. Big freakin' deal. If you haven't noticed, we have played some pretty damn good ball over the course of the last month or so. Roll up your nuts and cry for mama if you like, but I suspect there are twelve or so guys in Mavericks jerseys who aren't ready to mail it in like you seem to be.

Solid. Thanks, I needed that.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I think it's still too soon to just fully blow it up, trading Dirk for a young talent that still needs time and picks is blowing it up.

I see a way for us to make a trade and get better, but the FO is stubborn on keeping Howard. Howard is the key piece/next domino to fall if a trade is made...but I don't see the FO budging on that that.

Would it really be blowing it up to free cap space to bring in Bosh back home? What do you think about trading Howard and Stack and bringing in Raja Bell and Wallace? I think that would be the best possible trade we can make that could actually happen. We solve four big holes with this trade. We get a starting SG, we get an excellent SG defender, a true starting SF and defender at the SF spot.

[quietsavant]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Look, you nelliepants little bitches. We just lost ONE road game. Big freakin' deal. If you haven't noticed, we have played some pretty damn good ball over the course of the last month or so. Roll up your nuts and cry for mama if you like, but I suspect there are twelve or so guys in Mavericks jerseys who aren't ready to mail it in like you seem to be.

Chum, I love ya man. In a strick respect for another man kinda way.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by ghazi

It pains me that we don't look like a team that's a piece away from being elite .

A trade may make us slightly better, but close the gap between us and the Cavs/Celtics/Lakers? I doubt it

2 notches below those teams, and 1 notch below 4-5 other teams... we look like the 9th or 10th best team in the NBA, that's what pains me

Why are you still here? We just lost a must win game.

Game over man, game over.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.....A Trade Needs To Be Made. And yes maybe just for the sake of making one to freshen the team up a bit. Management is going to have to accept sooner or later that Stack's contract by itself isn't gonna bring a quality piece.

If the Mavs are worried about adding salary then they aren't serious about winning now.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Would it really be blowing it up to free cap space to bring in Bosh back home? What do you think about trading Howard and Stack and bringing in Raja Bell and Wallace? I think that would be the best possible trade we can make that could actually happen. We solve four big holes with this trade. We get a starting SG, we get an excellent SG defender, a true starting SF and defender at the SF spot.

Some people see Howard/Wallace-like trades as a wash...I wouldn't be firmly in that group.
But like I said, the FO gives off the impression to have the death grip on Josh.

I don't even know if Bosh is a legit option for Dallas, even if we had the money. If we're blowing things up and just picks and a young guy with Bosh...is that enough for him? It's not a lock for sure.

[GermanDunk]

121 : 97 ? Hmpf

[sike]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I've got to be honest, though--I'm glad to see him doing well. It doesn't make me regret anything, it just makes me glad to know that a good young kid like him is having so much success.

bingo

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.....A Trade Needs To Be Made. And yes maybe just for the sake of making one to freshen the team up a bit. Management is going to have to accept sooner or later that Stack's contract by itself isn't gonna bring a quality piece.

If the Mavs are worried about adding salary then they aren't serious about winning now.

The Mavs haven't been serious about winning since Mark Cuban set his eyes on owning an MLB team.

[cinemablend]

I'm really really happy to see Devin doing so well.

But at the same time it's hard not to get at least a little depressed about the Mavs after a humiliating night like tonight.

God I wish we still had Harris.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by sike

bingo

I agree too...I have zero ill-feelings towards him. He seemed like a pretty nice guy and did some really nice things for the Mavericks. He didn't really do anything to hurt the Mavericks, and he helped...so I wish him nothing but the best.

[cinemablend]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.....A Trade Needs To Be Made.

The last time we said that they made one.... and screwed everything up by trading our only penetrator for a past-his-prime guard with no offensive abilities.

(sigh)

I'd be so much more on board with making a major trade if we still had Harris and could trade Josh for one or two really good pieces. The Mavs would be in so much better shape.

You're right though, a trade needs to be made. A major trade, one that really clears out a big part of the roster and brings in a new mindset. I think it needs to start with Josh.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by cinemablend

The last time we said that they made one.... and screwed everything up by trading our only penetrator for a past-his-prime guard with no offensive abilities.

(sigh)

I'd be so much more on board with making a major trade if we still had Harris and could trade Josh for one or two really good pieces. The Mavs would be in so much better shape.

You're right though, a trade needs to be made. A major trade, one that really clears out a big part of the roster and brings in a new mindset. I think it needs to start with Josh.

It might've been Bayliss who mentioned it...sorry if I'm mistaken: A trade was still necessary to compliment the Kidd deal. I think Kidd fixes issues on the team, but he doesn't fix the main issues. I still love having Kidd here, but we still need more to it as well.

Either way, we need something to develop internally or externally with the SG position.

[GermanDunk]

wat ? 41 for Devin ?