GDT Mavs @ Suns 9:30pm CST 1/9/2009 - Page 7 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dtownsfinest · 01-10-2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Why even talk about trading Josh?

No one wants our garbage.

No one.

It's not going to happen, and it never was, even if he didn't "get hurt"

The thing about trades...the other team has to be interested. We have absolute crap to trade. Time to start playing smarter with what we've got because it's what we got.

I disagree. Josh has value. Its debatable how much. But your fooling yourself if you don't think a team would take Josh Howard. Problem is, we may receive half the player Josh is in return. I don't think Josh is who we trade though for that simple fact. If the Mavs are going to make a trade there going to have to make a decision on Jason Kidd. I think he's the only valuable asset this team has right now aside of Dirk and JET.

Thomas86 · 01-10-2009, 02:47 AM

I hate losing but I really hate losing to the Suns of all teams, I think when Rick Carlisle see's that he can't play Dirk at center then we will be better off, I know I bash Avery alot but he knew how to use the players on this team, anyway the only person I could see getting trade on this team is Jason Kidd because he has the best value and huge expiring contracts.

I'm not getting upset beacuse this is just one game and the season is long but I do hope that the Mavs FO atleast try to do something to help this team..........a center that can score like Brad Miller would be nice but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I just hope peolpe don't try to blame this lose on Howard like they do all the time beacuse the entire team lose this game not Howard.

twelli · 01-10-2009, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

I just hope people don't try to blame this lose on Howard like they do all the time because the entire team lose this game not Howard.

Josh is this year's main man to blame. Someones has to fill that role. Stack isn't playing, George isn't playing much, and Avery is gone, so Josh it is.

I am not sure how much worse he is playing now compared to previous years when nobody complained about him or how much the blame he receives has to do with his off-court mishaps.

Two other players who have disappointed me so far are Bass and Diop. Bass doesn't live up to the expectations he created last year, it seems he has regressed a little bit, or maybe I am not looking closely enough. Diop seems not the same after returning from New Jersey. Has his confidence been affected by the trades?

And what about Coach? However you look at it, it doesn't look like Avery would have done worse this season. And why are so few people questioning Carlisle the way Avery was questioned last year?

antoinewalker · 01-10-2009, 04:30 AM

does dampier even try to play defense against shaq? shaq was having a field day out there.

ghazi · 01-10-2009, 06:28 AM

Mavs haven't looked impressive all year... we haven't had a truly well played game since Portland except for the Clips but that was w/o Dirk and again... its the Clippers.

The teams problems are numerous. Josh is one of them but he is not the primary problem.

blessednegr0 · 01-10-2009, 07:31 AM

again.... like another poster said.... why isnt gerald green playing?

chumdawg · 01-10-2009, 08:34 AM

Brandon Bass got absolutely shredded in the third quarter last night. That was painful to watch.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-10-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Yes he played. And he sucked like:

a) Hoover Vacuum Cleaner

b) a 3 dollar ho

c) black hole

d) Josh Howard vortex

And the answer would be: d! Tell him what he has won Johnny!?! Well, Chum has won an all expense paid trip to Josh Howard Howard's "Basketball Camp" and an Avery Johnson autographed book! Thank you for playing and have a great time.

Why does Damp only show up when he wants to? His inconsistencies are so effin annoying. I just don't get how you can pull down 14 rebounds one game and play like donkey piss the next. Get yer damn head and effort into the game!

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-10-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Brandon Bass got absolutely shredded in the third quarter last night. That was painful to watch.

As bad as he was, Dirk, Kidd and Terry all had worse +/-. Those three combined for a cataclysmic -78.

Bayliss · 01-10-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

As bad as he was, Dirk, Kidd and Terry all had worse +/-. Those three combined for a cataclysmic -78.

That was because Kidd, and Dirk didn't pplay the 4th quarter when it was garbage time.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-10-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

That was because Kidd, and Dirk didn't pplay the 4th quarter when it was garbage time.

Eh still...ok lets take the 4th quarter away and what, -60? lol

Tired of excuses for this team.

Will the real Dallas Mavericks please stand up?

Bayliss · 01-10-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Eh still...ok lets take the 4th quarter away and what, -60? lol

Tired of excuses for this team.

Will the real Dallas Mavericks please stand up?

I was just pointing out that Bass didn't play that well. The +/- numbers were really skewed that game. No one really played well.

TNT · 01-10-2009, 10:00 AM

mavs didn't have any defence last night. It was so awful to watch.

Silk Smoov · 01-10-2009, 10:15 AM

The Mavs ARE who we thought they were...Nothing has changed. Everyone has seen it and talked about it, and now seems puzzled that we got beat like that? Then want to blame it on the ONLY guy who competed last night against those horses out there from the Suns...

basketballgirl25 · 01-10-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Will the real Dallas Mavericks please stand up?

maybe they should play the song The Real Slim Shady before a game to make them play better

you know I had to say this just because the lyrics to that song are

Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?

Bayliss · 01-10-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

The Mavs ARE who we thought they were...Nothing has changed. Everyone has seen it and talked about it, and now seems puzzled that we got beat like that? Then want to blame it on the ONLY guy who competed last night against those horses out there from the Suns...

And who exactly "competed" last night?

endrity · 01-10-2009, 11:02 AM

I think we know very well what the Mavs are!

MavsFanFinley · 01-10-2009, 12:53 PM

That was so painful to watch. I kept expecting someone to step up but no one did.

Any news on Howard?

destroy ALL · 01-10-2009, 01:10 PM

the suns are gonna be pretty scary come playoff time. the addition of j-rich and barnes were amazing.

cowdog80 · 01-10-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroy ALL

the suns are gonna be pretty scary come playoff time. the addition of j-rich and barnes were amazing.

I'm not buying it. Their best line-up still has 3 terrible defenders (shaq, amare, nash), 1 mediocre one (richardson), and 1 above average defender who is injury prone (Hill). Richardson came at the expense of their best perimeter defender over the past 3 years (albeit that he may have lost a step).

They're still only 2+ days removed from losing to the Pacers at home.

On a given night, they can put together a show like they did last night. Although a lot of that was just the Mavs laying an egg. There's not a team in the league that wouldn't have scored 115 last night with the matador defense Dallas was playing. But I still think that they're first round fodder unless they can get into that 4 seed (in which place they'll be second round fodder). In a 7 game series, I don't see them being a threat to the Lakers, Spurs, or Hornets.

It should also be noted that the Suns schedule is about to get amped up significantly.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-10-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowdog80

On a given night, they can put together a show like they did last night. Although a lot of that was just the Mavs laying an egg. There's not a team in the league that wouldn't have scored 115 last night with the matador defense Dallas was playing. But I still think that they're first round fodder unless they can get into that 4 seed (in which place they'll be second round fodder). In a 7 game series, I don't see them being a threat to the Lakers, Spurs, or Hornets.

It should also be noted that the Suns schedule is about to get amped up significantly.

What you are saying about the Suns sounds like it applies to the Mavs as well.

BGMaverick9 · 01-10-2009, 04:31 PM

I'm glad I missed this one.

ghazi · 01-10-2009, 05:11 PM

The Suns aren't scary. They still don't play defense and don't rebound. if they play like they did last night every night they'd be the best team in the NBA... but more often than not they won't shoot over 60%, they won't committ so few turnovers, Shaq wouldn't make all his FT's, and they wouldn't limit the opponents fast break points...

Last night was a combination of the mavs playing really bad and the Suns playing really well.

SO it's now 5 times in the past 6 games that the Mavs have been outscored by 20+ in an in game stretch. Twice in these last 6 games the Mavs have been outscored by 30+ in an in game stretch. That's just terrible basketball and means your offense and defense are not efficient.

Oh the torture of being a Mavs fan right now. Thinking what could've been... what if Bennett Salvatore swallows his whistle and Wade misses one of those bullshit fluky jump shots? What if the Clippers win a few more games and get the 8th seed instead of the Warriors?

And now we just look so terribly mediocre. It's amazing that the core of a team that won 67 games 2 years ago has remained RELATIVELY intact and this is what we're seeing. It's like the NBA took steroids, or we just regressed that badly.

I love Dirk, but this roster isn't deep enough to mask the fact that in the playoffs we will likely run into teams with a better player. Dirk's failed to make an imprint the last 3 playoff series... we don't have enough scoring, defense, or depth to offset the fact that if we run into the Spurs, Lakers, and Hornets they will have the best player in the series who is more likely to make his mark on the series.

Dirk is a 1.5 option, if he's the 2nd best player on a team that team wouldbe scary as hell... if he's the best player on the team that team needs to have a finely tuned roster with defense and plenty of scoring options. Our defense is mediocre and we only have 3players who score in double figures. The holes of our roster are obvious when we have so many gimmick lineups like Singleton/Bass playing center or Barea playing shooting guard or the 3 guard lineup.

I'm usually an optimistic person. Last year after teh Kidd trade for the most part our losses were close and we were blowing out the lottery teams... which made me feel we were almost there... now I see how the Cavs, Celtics, Lakers are playing and I see how the Mavs are playing and I can't even imagine us beating any of these teams in a 7 game series without homecurt.. and throw in 3-4 other teams as well.

This teams only chance is to get the 2nd seed IMO... don't think we're good enough to do that and we're not good enough to win 3-4 series without HCA either... and HCA may not even mean much as we've struggled against bad teams at home and lost to good teams at home. GOD DAMMIT GOD DAMMIT GOD DAMMIT.

*sigh*.

BGMaverick9 · 01-10-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

The Suns aren't scary. They still don't play defense and don't rebound. if they play like they did last night every night they'd be the best team in the NBA... but more often than not they won't shoot over 60%, they won't committ so few turnovers, Shaq wouldn't make all his FT's, and they wouldn't limit the opponents fast break points...

Last night was a combination of the mavs playing really bad and the Suns playing really well.

SO it's now 5 times in the past 6 games that the Mavs have been outscored by 20+ in an in game stretch. Twice in these last 6 games the Mavs have been outscored by 30+ in an in game stretch. That's just terrible basketball and means your offense and defense are not efficient.

Oh the torture of being a Mavs fan right now. Thinking what could've been... what if Bennett Salvatore swallows his whistle and Wade misses one of those bullshit fluky jump shots? What if the Clippers win a few more games and get the 8th seed instead of the Warriors?

And now we just look so terribly mediocre. It's amazing that the core of a team that won 67 games 2 years ago has remained RELATIVELY intact and this is what we're seeing. It's like the NBA took steroids, or we just regressed that badly.

I love Dirk, but this roster isn't deep enough to mask the fact that in the playoffs we will likely run into teams with a better player. Dirk's failed to make an imprint the last 3 playoff series... we don't have enough scoring, defense, or depth to offset the fact that if we run into the Spurs, Lakers, and Hornets they will have the best player in the series who is more likely to make his mark on the series.

Dirk is a 1.5 option, if he's the 2nd best player on a team that team wouldbe scary as hell... if he's the best player on the team that team needs to have a finely tuned roster with defense and plenty of scoring options. Our defense is mediocre and we only have 3players who score in double figures. The holes of our roster are obvious when we have so many gimmick lineups like Singleton/Bass playing center or Barea playing shooting guard or the 3 guard lineup.

I'm usually an optimistic person. Last year after teh Kidd trade for the most part our losses were close and we were blowing out the lottery teams... which made me feel we were almost there... now I see how the Cavs, Celtics, Lakers are playing and I see how the Mavs are playing and I can't even imagine us beating any of these teams in a 7 game series without homecurt.. and throw in 3-4 other teams as well.

This teams only chance is to get the 2nd seed IMO... don't think we're good enough to do that and we're not good enough to win 3-4 series without HCA either... and HCA may not even mean much as we've struggled against bad teams at home and lost to good teams at home. GOD DAMMIT GOD DAMMIT GOD DAMMIT.

*sigh*.

Honestly, I'm tired of the Finals stuff, it's in the past...nothing is changing, just let it go.

I don't agree with the Dirk = 1.5 talk. I think you said it yourself, this team doesn't have enough to go with it so that drags Dirk from a natural 1/stud into a worn-out, easy to peg down player. If he's getting doubled, the smart thing to do is find the open man and attack that way, our guys just need to be able to execute and make them pay. If they make them pay they'll live with it or adjust...either way, the defense will suffer.

I think we're sticking with what we've got for way too long. The only fault I have with the on-court addition of Kidd is he doesn't shoot enough...boo hoo. He does enough with passing, defense, and etc to make up for that fact. Otherwise with the roster, it's overdue but the FO needs to Man Up and grow a set and make some hard to swallow moves.

Dirkadirkastan · 01-10-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

The Suns aren't scary. They still don't play defense and don't rebound. if they play like they did last night every night they'd be the best team in the NBA... but more often than not they won't shoot over 60%, they won't committ so few turnovers, Shaq wouldn't make all his FT's, and they wouldn't limit the opponents fast break points...

Last night was a combination of the mavs playing really bad and the Suns playing really well.

The Suns had 68 points in the paint. That's why their FG% was so high.

Quote:

What if the Clippers win a few more games and get the 8th seed instead of the Warriors?

It was actually more likely that the Lakers move down to 8th, rather than the Clippers moving up. Of course, that was when we wanted to face the Lakers.

Quote:

And now we just look so terribly mediocre. It's amazing that the core of a team that won 67 games 2 years ago has remained RELATIVELY intact and this is what we're seeing. It's like the NBA took steroids, or we just regressed that badly.

Devin is gone, which hurts the most. Josh has regressed, Diop has regressed, Stack is gone. Hell, Griffin used to give us the hustle plays we now get from Kidd. The only ones that can still bring it at the same level are Dirk, Jet, and Damp.

Quote:

I love Dirk, but this roster isn't deep enough to mask the fact that in the playoffs we will likely run into teams with a better player. Dirk's failed to make an imprint the last 3 playoff series... we don't have enough scoring, defense, or depth to offset the fact that if we run into the Spurs, Lakers, and Hornets they will have the best player in the series who is more likely to make his mark on the series.

Dirk kicked some serious tail against the Hornets. But nobody else did a damn thing.

LonghornDub · 01-10-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Dirk kicked some serious tail against the Hornets. But nobody else did a damn thing.

Bass.

Dirkadirkastan · 01-10-2009, 05:43 PM

Ok, Bass did a damn thing.

Usually Lurkin · 01-10-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

Dirk is a 1.5 option, if he's the 2nd best player on a team that team wouldbe scary as hell... if he's the best player on the team that team needs to have a finely tuned roster with defense and plenty of scoring options.

*sigh*.

I've got to comment on this, too. You could say the same about just about everyone in the league. The Lakers were crap when they had only Kobe, they were only a bit better than crap when they added Bynum and Odom. They were not great till they had Gasol, too. You could say the same about Peirce, Garnett, and Allen in Boston. Don't forget also how well Shaq played in the Dallas/Miami finals. DWhistle and the refs grabbed all the headlines, but the refs would not have been in a position to give them the series if the role players on Miami didn't step up to play above their heads. Heck, even JWill looked like Steve Kerr at times during that series. That Miami team that won the series had as many options as the Dallas team did before they started getting whistled for breathing too forcefully.

Every team with a legitimate #1 is scary as hell if you add more high-caliber players. And every team with a legitimate #1 still needs the entire team to click on all cyliners to win it all.

BGMaverick9 · 01-10-2009, 06:00 PM

That is why I still never get why Dirk gets ripped as much as he does. Guys like what we have are nice, but they're not the best we could have to go with Dirk. So like I said in earlier, he has to run out of the phone booth with the cape on night in and night out and do everything he can. There are nights where that's going to catch up to him and that's fine, that's why it's a team sport...the teammates need to pick up the slack.

That's why I say we need to make a deal or two, we're still pieces short of where we need to be.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-10-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Devin is gone, which hurts the most. Josh has regressed, Diop has regressed, Stack is gone. Hell, Griffin used to give us the hustle plays we now get from Kidd. The only ones that can still bring it at the same level are Dirk, Jet, and Damp.

The problem with Damp is that his level isn't even high enough to begin with. He hardly ever shows up in a big game.

So that leaves us with Dirk and Jet as the only two consistently high level players on the team. And frankly, Jet being at the level he is at right now is a big luxury.

Still, I think it shows the roster needs a bigger over-hall than I thought. I was thinking one player might be a quick fix, but I don't know anymore. The team looks effortless and heartless lately. Hope I'm wrong.

Go Mavs, sigh.

Dirkadirkastan · 01-10-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The problem with Damp is that his level isn't even high enough to begin with. He hardly ever shows up in a big game.

So that leaves us with Dirk and Jet as the only two consistently high level players on the team. And frankly, Jet being at the level he is at right now is a big luxury.

Still, I think it shows the roster needs a bigger over-hall than I thought. I was thinking one player might be a quick fix, but I don't know anymore. The team looks effortless and heartless lately. Hope I'm wrong.

Go Mavs, sigh.

Just saying Damp is about on the same level as he was before. If the goal is to resurrect the '06 team, there's only three guys left that are producing at the same level as before.

(For future reference, the word is "overhaul".)

ghazi · 01-11-2009, 12:21 AM

"Heart" is overrated. And I don't think the Mavs woes are a matter of effort, it's just talent. We've put forth alot of "effort" in our close wins... it wasn't that we weren't trying that those games against lottery teams were close... we're just not good enough.

There's nothing great we can say about the Mavs as far as winning a championship. A few years ago we could say we were elite offensively and elite at rebounding the basketball, and pretty damn good at playing defense. Now, we can't say any of that. We can't even say we have a formidable PAIR of forwards with the way Josh Howard is now and days. We can't say we get to the line alot cause we don't anymore. We're not lethal from behind the arc anymore. We can't say anything... all we can say is "Dirk"... and the Lakers can say Kobe... Hornets Paul... Magic Dwight... Spurs DUncan... Cleveland James... all of those teams have a better superstar, a better roster, and better defensive and offensive efficiency.

The ONLY thing we can say we're the best at is shooting long 2 point jump shots... and that's actually not a good thing.

Jeez, we could probably have everyone in our core playing at a high level and consistent play from 2-3 players off the bench and it still wouldn't be enough.

I dunno, go Mavs I guess.bb

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 12:55 AM

Going into today, we're 2nd in the league in rebounding...

Stranger · 01-11-2009, 02:21 AM

This game dropped us from 4th in the league in field goal defense to 7th.

Stranger · 01-11-2009, 02:30 AM

Just a brief review of our statistical rankings:

Points: 99.6, 11th overall
Points Allowed: 97.8, 14th overall
Point Differential: +1.8, 13th overall
Field Goal Percentage: 45.1%, 17th overall
Field Goal Defense: 44.2%, 7th overall
3pt Percentage: 34%, 23rd overall
3pt Defense: 34%, 8th overall
Free Throw Percentage: 80.4%, 4th overall
Rebounding Percentage: .508, 8th overall
Turnovers: 13.3, 6th overall
Opposition Turnovers: 12.9, 27th overall

twelli · 01-11-2009, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

"Heart" is overrated. And I don't think the Mavs woes are a matter of effort, it's just talent. We've put forth alot of "effort" in our close wins... it wasn't that we weren't trying that those games against lottery teams were close... we're just not good enough.

Houston, without two of their starters, beat the Knicks by 20. That's how it's supposed to be if you are a quality team. Beat the weaker teams by a healthy margin and have close battles with the big teams.

I am afraid the Mavs are following the Kings into mediocrity, a team not really bad but ending up 8th or 9th in the standings.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-11-2009, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

"Heart" is overrated. And I don't think the Mavs woes are a matter of effort, it's just talent. We've put forth alot of "effort" in our close wins... it wasn't that we weren't trying that those games against lottery teams were close... we're just not good enough.

I disagree. Have you been watching the games against crappy teams recently? The effort is absolutely not where it should be. The Mavericks should never be down by 29 against the Wolves who we massively out-talent.

And barely beating the Clippers the two home games we played against them?

And the Grizzly debacle?

Do you not agree that we have more talent than those teams?

Silk Smoov · 01-11-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

And who exactly "competed" last night?

Come on Skip, you know the answer to that one

I know it does not bold well here to praise Howard, but that game he was the ONLY one who tried to compete out there against the Suns.

MavsX · 01-14-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

maybe they should play the song The Real Slim Shady before a game to make them play better

you know I had to say this just because the lyrics to that song are

Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?

FYI: You are the green dinosaur. I am the guy giving you the beat down.

MavsX · 01-14-2009, 12:47 PM

i hate this new vBulletin