The state of this board... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 04-25-2009, 09:24 PM

I am truly amazed at how flat out stupid some of you people are in this thread. How freaking long have you guys watched the game of basketball..but you still have no concept of how the game works? Are many of you truly that stupid? Do you have no concept of strategy? Do you not understand that the Spurs main goal is to limit Dirk because they know that if they cover him with one man, he's likely to go for 30-40 a night?...They believe that their only chance to win is to sell out on Dirk and make someone else beat them. And guess what?.. Rick Carlisle believes that the rest of the team can beat the Spurs with limited point production from Dirk when the Spurs sell out on Nowitzki.

So, the Mavs allow the Spurs to sell out and Dirk and play into the Spurs strategy simply because Carlisle believes that it is faulty.

Honestly, there probably isn't much that the Spurs could do to win this series. But, they're placing their defensive eggs into the slowing down dirk basket. The Mavs are ok with that. Dirk is ok with that. They're not forcing things offensively. They're ok with Dirk drawing the double and making the pass. They're ok with Dirk causing defenders to cheat an extra step his way even when he doesn't have the ball. That is fine with him and it is fine with the Mavs. It's just a shame that many fans aren't smart enough to realize what the hell is going on.

Many of you have posted on this board for how long?... and you're still that much of a basketball idiot?

Even though Dirk put up only 12 points, do you understand just how important he was to the outcome of this game with what he did on the offensive side of the ball? No, I didn't think you did.

Was Dirk perfect? Far from it. He made a couple mistakes. But, him accepting taking a back seat just shows how much of a team player he is. He doesn't care about the stats. He's fine with only 9 shots if it means he makes things much easier for everyone else. What more could you ask?

dude1394 · 04-25-2009, 09:41 PM

Having a guy who attracts that much attention is always important. However he also has to (imo) be more aggressive than he was tonight, especially when there isn't a guy waiting behind his men. Or at least put more pressure on the defender. I thought he was too passive tonight. I don't expect dirk to put it on the floor like a point guard, but when a guy is up in his grill, he can get around him.

DirkFTW · 04-25-2009, 09:46 PM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Murphy3 again.

If you had told me before the series that we would need to rely on our bench to step up against the Spurs to win games, I would have been very sad. This has been so fun to watch as a result.

Chicken Diavlo · 04-25-2009, 09:47 PM

Hey man... we're winning. Crack open a beer and relax bro. The idiots will always still be idiots.

fluid.forty.one · 04-25-2009, 09:57 PM

I'm glad Dirk isn't forcing it like he did against the Warriors, but he needs to be more aggressive and finish those drives rather than kick them out -> turn it over.

But hey, we're winning so who cares. If we can beat the Spurs with JET and Dirk not up to their normal standards, we could have a chance against LA if we click on all cylinders.

jthig32 · 04-25-2009, 10:01 PM

I think there's a middle of the road. I think Dirk needs to be slightly more aggressive than he was today. He needs to make them pay a little for bodying up on him.

However, anyone saying Dirk played "horrible" or didn't give full effort is basketball ignorant. Dirk is 7 feet tall. If they're going to sell out and run two guys at him, which they did the majority of this game, then Dirk is going to have to swing the ball and let others make the Spurs pay. And they did tonight.

fluid.forty.one · 04-25-2009, 10:12 PM

btw, jthig, in case you missed it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

jthig (and bg.. and others) -

It's my pleasure to admit that you were right and I was wrong.

DirkFTW · 04-25-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

jthig (and bg.. and others) - It's my pleasure to admit that you were right and I was wrong.

Isn't there supposed to be more to this line?

chumdawg · 04-25-2009, 10:51 PM

The next reach-around you give him, remind him that it's the playoffs.

alby · 04-25-2009, 11:24 PM

I talked about this in BG's recap thread, but Murphy is just a little more eccentric about it

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-25-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Having a guy who attracts that much attention is always important. However he also has to (imo) be more aggressive than he was tonight, especially when there isn't a guy waiting behind his men. Or at least put more pressure on the defender. I thought he was too passive tonight. I don't expect dirk to put it on the floor like a point guard, but when a guy is up in his grill, he can get around him.

I agree with all of this.

Blackspider972 · 04-26-2009, 12:35 AM

Yea the Spurs are playing him tough, but there are times when he needs to put the ball on the floor and drive the ball instead of pulling up for long jumpers. I want him to be more aggressive like he did at the very end of the game when he drove to the basket and laid it in and basically sealed the game.

I don't think he's having a bad series but he could shoot a better percentage and force his way into the game a little more.

But hey, we are up 3-1. It's all gravy for me right now!

Bayliss · 04-26-2009, 12:40 AM

Dirk isn't playing horrible. But (IMO) he isn't being that aggressive either. He can get to the rim a few more times (like that finishing drive today)if he would just grab it and go.

Blackspider972 · 04-26-2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Dirk isn't playing horrible. But (IMO) he isn't being that aggressive either. He can get to the rim a few more times (like that finishing drive today)if he would just grab it and go.

Exactly. Don't wait and hold the ball. Once the ball hits his hands, drive it.

GermanDunk · 04-26-2009, 12:46 AM

Morning guys !

Thespiralgoeson · 04-26-2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackspider972

Yea the Spurs are playing him tough, but there are times when he needs to put the ball on the floor and drive the ball instead of pulling up for long jumpers.

Even more than that, he needs to take the jumpshots when they're there. I get so angry when I see him being covered by guys under 6-5 and he waits for the second defender instead of just taking the shot.

BGMaverick9 · 04-26-2009, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

btw, jthig, in case you missed it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

jthig (and bg.. and others) -

It's my pleasure to admit that you were right and I was wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Isn't there supposed to be more to this line?

ghazi · 04-26-2009, 03:18 AM

I suppose I am one of the people who is being referred to :-P

I guess I shouldn't call it a "pathetic" performance by Dirk given his board work/defense but cmon... there's no denying IMO that he was WAYYY too passive on offensive end. And the 3 turnovers didn't help either.

No he does not need to go off for 30-40 but 9 shots in 41 minutes of action? I refuse to give the Spurs defense that much credit!!

BGMaverick9 · 04-26-2009, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

I suppose I am one of the people who is being referred to :-P

I guess I shouldn't call it a "pathetic" performance by Dirk given his board work/defense but cmon... there's no denying IMO that he was WAYYY too passive on offensive end. And the 3 turnovers didn't help either.

No he does not need to go off for 30-40 but 9 shots in 41 minutes of action? I refuse to give the Spurs defense that much credit!!

It's not all the Spurs though. There were opportunities to get him the ball, but they never really even looked for him.

Lor20 · 04-26-2009, 06:00 AM

dirk usually only got the ball right in the middle of the ft line. he's too big to split a double team and just turn and dribble in between them and turning around and shooting over two defenders really doesnt seem like its the smartest thing to do.
he has no path to the basket there. he is - again - too tall to just go around a defender - he needs a somewhat straight line to the basket to be able to drive. And I will say it gain - the spurs defended the paint very well yesterday. we were 5-14 on layups.
i wish he would have gotten the ball a little more often at other spots on the floor. especially at the right wing - but that didnt happen much. maybe because dirk was content being a distributor - maybe because it was the gameplan - these games are very valuable though. our bench is learning to abuse the double teams finally. we used to never make peoplle pay for it. now if only jet could get things going

Murphy3 · 04-26-2009, 07:11 AM

I agree that Dirk needs to be a bit more aggressive at times. But it's also apparent that he's buying into the game plan. Some of you seem a little incapable of understanding this.

Like I said, he's not playing perfect offensive ball by any stretch of the imagination. But he is doing a good job on the court of accepting his role. If Carlisle continues to use this tactic and the Mavs continue to win, then so be it. But it'd be nice if the fans mixed in just a little basketball common sense before posting idiotic statements.

But hey, if you want to be a sports idiot, so be it.

alby · 04-26-2009, 09:31 AM

Why force things when what you are doing is winning?

mav4ever · 04-26-2009, 01:33 PM

thank god for you sir.

this is truly a better place for having you, i mean, how else would we know who is stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I am truly amazed at how flat out stupid some of you people are in this thread. How freaking long have you guys watched the game of basketball..but you still have no concept of how the game works? Are many of you truly that stupid? Do you have no concept of strategy? Do you not understand that the Spurs main goal is to limit Dirk because they know that if they cover him with one man, he's likely to go for 30-40 a night?...They believe that their only chance to win is to sell out on Dirk and make someone else beat them. And guess what?.. Rick Carlisle believes that the rest of the team can beat the Spurs with limited point production from Dirk when the Spurs sell out on Nowitzki.

So, the Mavs allow the Spurs to sell out and Dirk and play into the Spurs strategy simply because Carlisle believes that it is faulty.

Honestly, there probably isn't much that the Spurs could do to win this series. But, they're placing their defensive eggs into the slowing down dirk basket. The Mavs are ok with that. Dirk is ok with that. They're not forcing things offensively. They're ok with Dirk drawing the double and making the pass. They're ok with Dirk causing defenders to cheat an extra step his way even when he doesn't have the ball. That is fine with him and it is fine with the Mavs. It's just a shame that many fans aren't smart enough to realize what the hell is going on.

Many of you have posted on this board for how long?... and you're still that much of a basketball idiot?

Even though Dirk put up only 12 points, do you understand just how important he was to the outcome of this game with what he did on the offensive side of the ball? No, I didn't think you did.

Was Dirk perfect? Far from it. He made a couple mistakes. But, him accepting taking a back seat just shows how much of a team player he is. He doesn't care about the stats. He's fine with only 9 shots if it means he makes things much easier for everyone else. What more could you ask?

CadBane · 04-26-2009, 03:10 PM

I can always tell how little some people know about basketball when they say things like "Dirk needs to drive more and harder on those double teams." Yes, because 7 foot PF's can drive to the hoop from 15 feet out against double teams. Ok.

NYMAVGUY · 04-26-2009, 03:12 PM

This Thread is a bit unfair.

Murphy3 · 04-26-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Why force things when what you are doing is winning?

Because Dirk is obviously supposed to be selfish and go against a game plan that worked.

Lor20 · 04-26-2009, 06:02 PM

we always get a lot of guys in the playoffs to this board that don't watch or follow the regular season so they obviously don't quite know what the mavs have been doing all season.

fluid.forty.one · 04-26-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I can always tell how little some people know about basketball when they say things like "Dirk needs to drive more and harder on those double teams." Yes, because 7 foot PF's can drive to the hoop from 15 feet out against double teams. Ok.

I don't think this was directed at me since I never said he needs to drive on the hard double teams... but I DO think he needs to finish the drives he starts. There was at least two times that he beat his man off the dribble and got to the hoop, only to pass it to a bobbling Wright or Dampier for the turnover rather than finishing the layup himself.

But yes, he shouldn't start a drive with the double on him. I'd prefer him to take the quick jumper before the double team gets there like he did in game 3.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-26-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I agree that Dirk needs to be a bit more aggressive at times. But it's also apparent that he's buying into the game plan. Some of you seem a little incapable of understanding this.

Like I said, he's not playing perfect offensive ball by any stretch of the imagination. But he is doing a good job on the court of accepting his role. If Carlisle continues to use this tactic and the Mavs continue to win, then so be it. But it'd be nice if the fans mixed in just a little basketball common sense before posting idiotic statements.

But hey, if you want to be a sports idiot, so be it.

I'm perfectly capable of understanding this "plan," I just don't agree with it. Frankly I don't think it was part of Carlisle's gameplan for Dirk to barely be involved at all offensively. I think the Spurs just defended him well, and he responded poorly. And if it WAS part of Carlisle's plan for Dirk not to shoot the ball, then I think his gameplan sucks and he needs a new one. The Mavs aren't good enough to where we can get away with Dirk only taking 9 shots on a regular basis, even against this weakened Spurs team. Don't forget that it took some very fortuitous and unlikely three pointers from Wright and Howard and an equally unlikely 17 points from Kidd to pull this game out.

Murphy3 · 04-26-2009, 07:11 PM

Are you really?

Thespiralgoeson · 04-26-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Are you really?

No, you're right. I'm a moron. Please explain it to me. And remember, don't use any big words. Dumb it down a bit so I can grasp it.

Murphy3 · 04-26-2009, 07:23 PM

Just the fact that I had to explain it to you in the first place makes it apparent that you couldn't understand it regardless of how simply it was broken down.

mav4ever · 04-26-2009, 08:24 PM

the only reason i ever wish dirk would shoot more in this series is that when he passes it, its often a perfect throw to someone in black.

Dirkenstien · 04-26-2009, 08:28 PM

Dirk has been great this series. His ppg may not be up there but his energy and affect on the game can be seen all over the court.

alexamenos · 04-26-2009, 08:32 PM

dirk isn't scoring much but the mavs are leading the series anyway. they'd have swept the series if dirk wasn't playing so sucky.

discuss

Rick41 · 04-26-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm perfectly capable of understanding this "plan," I just don't agree with it. Frankly I don't think it was part of Carlisle's gameplan for Dirk to barely be involved at all offensively. I think the Spurs just defended him well, and he responded poorly. And if it WAS part of Carlisle's plan for Dirk not to shoot the ball, then I think his gameplan sucks and he needs a new one. The Mavs aren't good enough to where we can get away with Dirk only taking 9 shots on a regular basis, even against this weakened Spurs team. Don't forget that it took some very fortuitous and unlikely three pointers from Wright and Howard and an equally unlikely 17 points from Kidd to pull this game out.

I completely agree with you on this. Let's assume that Carlisle's plan was to use dirk as a decoy and run the offense around everyone else except him, then i would call carlisle an idiot.

But i could care less right now, we're up 3-1.

Tokey41 · 04-26-2009, 08:42 PM

The only downside of this series has been watching Parker light us up. If we could make him live in fear of entering the paint the Spurs wouldn't break 70 in any of their games.

I enjoy watching the rest of the team carry the offensive load, it makes me feel better about our roster. I just don't think we should be relying on that as a strategy, they aren't consistent enough to depend upon and I'm highly skeptical it will carry on throughout the playoffs. But anyone who hates this strategy shouldn't be blaming Dirk at all, if anyone it should be Carlisle.

chumdawg · 04-26-2009, 08:49 PM

The Dirk apologists among us like to point to Dirk's stellar playoff stats in general, like the way he heightens his PPG and RPG in the postseason, as a marker of his value as a player. The present strategy is undermining that.

I'm all for the notion that Dirk can take a back seat and the team benefits...but at the same time I'm not sure that Dirk can't do more.

CadBane · 04-26-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav4ever

the only reason i ever wish dirk would shoot more in this series is that when he passes it, its often a perfect throw to someone in black.

Yeah, he's averaging a whopping 1.5 turnovers per game in the playoffs. Unacceptable. Dirk just needs to be more assertive and start pulling up from half-court.

mav4ever · 04-26-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Yeah, he's averaging a whopping 1.5 turnovers per game in the playoffs. Unacceptable. Dirk just needs to be more assertive and start pulling up from half-court.

ya, it was really more in game 4 i guess.

and since im done, you can go jump back on your mom now.