Mavs 95 Nuggets 109 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

BGMaverick9 · 05-03-2009, 05:06 PM

As I thought, Denver wasn't going to bring the 2nd defender on Dirk and he was able to get pretty much most shots that he wanted. I think he's gonna have to be careful attacking the lane for away games...at least early, it doesn't look like he's going to get any help from the refs. Birdman is gonna give Dirk some fits...it's just a matter of how much Dirk is willing to allow. He just needs to be quick with the decision making. Guys are just sitting and watching when Dirk gets the ball..that doesn't fly with me. When he's going through his Iso motions guys need to get in the passing lane or get to a spot where he can pass and reset. No one is doing that and it's leaving him out on an island.

Damp and the other bigs need to figure out what to do with Nene, they need to force one thing and not give him the whole playbook, basically. He's shooting jumpers, posting guys up, driving the lane...etc. etc. They need to try to cut parts of that off and just turn him into a one-dimensional player on offense. Also in the paint with Nene, whatever he's showing you first won't be the finisher. He's keeping that pivot foot alive and just moving all around and giving different looks so they can't bite on the first thing they see.

You're heart had to skip a beat twice in the first half when Damp and Josh went down but they both look to be ok. Josh didn't really look overly effected by the ankle when he came back but he never really got rolling but his ankle looked alright.

I liked how Dallas did show aggression in making things tough for Melo. They didn't slack like they have before with guys in foul trouble, Melo hardly saw the floor in the first half. Until the 4th quarter, Melo really wasn't able to get going.

Kidd seems to be getting at it with Billups but it's going the same way. Kidd was still aggressive with the shooting and that worked out well. I think he'll be able to be a scoring factor in this series because they won't respect his jumper. The problem where Billups and co. were able to be the factor on Kidd was turnovers. Kidd might need to be SLIGHTLY more careful with the ball...I just think he needs to recognize that Denver is going to be aggressive with shooting through the passing lanes. I think he'll be able to make that adjustment.

Jet was a factor but he was still quiet. It looks like half or so of his shots are forced/rushed, that's not good. Denver is not giving up 3 point opportunities so that's going to hurt Jet. Dallas' bench definitely needs to find ways to get themselves involved in this series. Denver's bench killed them big time today.

Wright never really got the light of day which was unfortunate. I thought he could be a pretty good factor and the defense looked relatively good but chippy fouls got in the way of that. I think he's going to need to start from here on out. It gives Dallas natural people to defend on the court, JJ couldn't really guard anyone when he was out there. It might not be the quick fix but it's the better option.

Game 2 early adjustments
--------------------------
-Don't let the pass come to you, run to the ball and protect it to avoid careless turnovers. Just be careful with the ball...use shot fakes and pass fakes and be ready with transition defense.

-More motion when Dirk goes Iso

-Wright starts and JJ moves to the bench

-Hollins needs to be the primary Center backup and Bass is Dirk's backup

-Play and force your tempo. Maybe not be super methodical but don't play faster than you can handle.

Underdog · 05-03-2009, 05:10 PM

Well that f*cking sucked...

croco · 05-03-2009, 05:11 PM

The game was close for 3 quarters until the turnovers started to pile up for the Mavs. That's deadly against a team like the Nuggets because they will get out in transition and convert those turnovers into points. This wasn't a blowout game in the sense of one team dominating the other for the length of the game.

Make the right adjustments for Game 2, tweak the rotation a little, let some other referees officiate the game and stop turning the ball over so much and I think we have a good chance to take the next game.

Hopefully Josh will be healty and good to go, we need him in so many areas. He will also be a factor in transition, as good as our offense can be, you need fastbreak points.

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 05:16 PM

Dirk needs to stop getting so flustered by thuggish players that are FAR inferior to him. When they send a message by being physical (or as I call it, garbage ball), send one back. Don't throw up a pansy little layup when Birdman is flying in...dunk the ball on him. Of course, this has been my gripe about Dirk for years. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Also, when did our veteran leader of a point guard turn into a turnover machine? Sorry, but some of those were unforced and he made the Thuggets defense look better than it actually is.

ghazi · 05-03-2009, 05:16 PM

Mavs jsut got way way too sloppy at the end. Hard to beat the Nuggets if you get outscored 29-2 in fast break points.

Dirk got shafted by refs in 1st half I felt, and Nuggets dominated paint in 1st half. but the story of the 2nd half had to be the Mavs' incessant turnovers, primarily self inflicted rather than due to Nuggets defensive pressure.

I dunno, on to next game.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-03-2009, 05:16 PM

How can one team be more aggressive and physical, and the other be called for 10 extra personal fouls? 10 is a boatload.

LonghornDub · 05-03-2009, 05:18 PM

It's been awhile since I've seen a Mavs team have so many turnovers in such a short amount of time. There were what, seven, in the span of around 6 minutes.

alexamenos · 05-03-2009, 05:19 PM

that looked alot like what nuggs did to New Orleans in game 5.

BGMaverick9 · 05-03-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It's been awhile since I've seen a Mavs team have so many turnovers in such a short amount of time. There were what, seven, in the span of around 6 minutes.

I think they mentioned the Mavs had a stretch of 12 possession where they were 0-6, 1 FT and 6 turnovers...

Dirkadirkastan · 05-03-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It's been awhile since I've seen a Mavs team have so many turnovers in such a short amount of time. There were what, seven, in the span of around 6 minutes.

Ten missed calls affect fifty plays, not just ten. It changes the team's mentality because they have to adjust to the way things are being called.

In other words, they were walking on eggshells while the Thugs were allowed to slap them silly. Pretty easy to explain.

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 05:25 PM

What sucks about it is...IF they REALLY wanted to, JET could play circles around JR, Dirk could make Birdman look silly, and Kidd could run an efficient offense against an overaggressive and gamble-happy defense.

JR Smith has been added to my most hated opponents list somewhere between Doug Christie and Bruce Bowen.

LonghornDub · 05-03-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Ten missed calls affect fifty plays, not just ten. It changes the team's mentality because they have to adjust to the way things are being called.

In other words, they were walking on eggshells while the Thugs were allowed to slap them silly. Pretty easy to explain.

I agree, but I'm not willing to put the entirety of the blame on the officiating. The games need to be officiated more evenly, but the Mavs also need to play a lot better.

Bayliss · 05-03-2009, 05:27 PM

Bass and Barea will be worthless in this series. Neither have the size to rebound, defend, or get their shot up against the opponent.

Mavs should just scrap Wright.

Start: Kidd/Terry/Howard/Dirk/Damp. Then sub Singleton in for Terry/Howard/Dirk. And sub in Hollins for Dampier.

The Mavs have to stay big against the Nuggets. And 7 guys should be fine as long as Damp doesn't get in foul trouble. But Carlisle has got to do it.

Bass and Barea were routinely abused today on both sides of the ball. Of course Kidd;s turnovers didn't help, but they want Bass to catch the ball 20 feet out and try and make a decision. He is a piss poor decision maker. They want him to try and go up against Andersen. He'll get his sh*t swatted every time. Same with Barea.

CadBane · 05-03-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerryGreen17

Dirk needs to stop getting so flustered by thuggish players that are FAR inferior to him. When they send a message by being physical (or as I call it, garbage ball), send one back. Don't throw up a pansy little layup when Birdman is flying in...dunk the ball on him. Of course, this has been my gripe about Dirk for years. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Also, when did our veteran leader of a point guard turn into a turnover machine? Sorry, but some of those were unforced and he made the Thuggets defense look better than it actually is.

Are you serious? Really? How did any frustration effect his game? He had 28/10/4/2/1 on 12-22 shooting. He had a great game and was solid throughout. He's the only one who showed up today. So what's your gripe? That he consistently scored on plus 50% shooting despite getting no calls? I'm just confused as to where you think he failed? Because he had one lay-up blocked?

DavidDaMonkey · 05-03-2009, 05:29 PM

I think you have to earn the respect from the refs in games like this. We drove to the hole alot early on, but then gave up on it. Even if you aren't getting the calls, I think you have to keep attacking. The refs can't ignore it all day.

Mavs have GOT to figure out a way to defend the paint better. That will kill us and wear us down faster than anything. We were hitting some jumpers tonight, but that wont keep up for 7 games and when that falls, we won't have anything else if we play like this.

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Are you serious? Really? How did any frustration effect his game? He had 28/10/4/2/1 on 12-22 shooting. He had a great game and was solid throughout. He's the only one who showed up today. So what's your gripe? That he consistently scored on plus 50% shooting despite getting no calls? I'm just confused as to where you think he failed? Because he had one lay-up blocked?

I am serious. He had a good game statistically and was the main reason the Mavs kept it close for 3 quarters. But you can't honestly tell me you didn't see a difference in his demeanor once the bullying got to him and the calls weren't going his way. He missed a layup against Birdman where he could have easily dunked it on him (Anderson was late getting there) but chose to float a layup off the glass that missed.

I've seen way better from Dirk. I've seen Tim Thomas piss him off only to drop 50 on the Suns. He can take games over, when he chooses to.

BGMaverick9 · 05-03-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Bass and Barea will be worthless in this series. Neither have the size to rebound, defend, or get their shot up against the opponent.

Mavs should just scrap Wright.

Start: Kidd/Terry/Howard/Dirk/Damp. Then sub Singleton in for Terry/Howard/Dirk. And sub in Hollins for Dampier.

The Mavs have to stay big against the Nuggets. And 7 guys should be fine as long as Damp doesn't get in foul trouble. But Carlisle has got to do it.

Bass and Barea were routinely abused today on both sides of the ball. Of course Kidd;s turnovers didn't help, but they want Bass to catch the ball 20 feet out and try and make a decision. He is a piss poor decision maker. They want him to try and go up against Andersen. He'll get his sh*t swatted every time. Same with Barea.

Bass is probably closer to the scraps than JJ but JJ can still be a factor. If he's trying to guard Billups, that's game over. He just needs to stick to being Kidd's primary backup and go up against Carter. There might not be a lot of SG minutes for him.

Bass usually can work on PFs on offense because he has the speed to surprise them, might be pretty iffy on that against Martin or Andersen...
If anything, the decision just needs to be shoot right away. Don't try to take the guy off the dribble or muscle to get in the paint...just shoot jumpers.

I dunno why you think Wright is useless...I just think he'll do better than today if he starts. He's clearly shown he can defend different types of guys.

But your idea about the lineup really depletes our bench scoring. I don't see Singleton being able to score or defend that well in this series. I do agree Hollins needs to be the primary backup for Damp. Like I said, Denver is too big up front so Bass won't be able to work as the center.

croco · 05-03-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I think you have to earn the respect from the refs in games like this. We drove to the hole alot early on, but then gave up on it. Even if you aren't getting the calls, I think you have to keep attacking. The refs can't ignore it all day.

Mavs have GOT to figure out a way to defend the paint better. That will kill us and wear us down faster than anything. We were hitting some jumpers tonight, but that wont keep up for 7 games and when that falls, we won't have anything else if we play like this.

That's actually a good point. I'm still pissed about the officiating, but it would have also helped to keep attacking, even if it is just to make a point and set up Game 2 so to speak. The early aggressiveness was gone, part of that was the refs, part of that was becoming more hesitant.

CadBane · 05-03-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerryGreen17

I am serious. He had a good game statistically and was the main reason the Mavs kept it close for 3 quarters. But you can't honestly tell me you didn't see a difference in his demeanor once the bullying got to him and the calls weren't going his way. He missed a layup against Birdman where he could have easily dunked it on him (Anderson was late getting there) but chose to float a layup off the glass that missed.

I've seen way better from Dirk. I've seen Tim Thomas piss him off only to drop 50 on the Suns. He can take games over, when he chooses to.

No, there was no difference. They thugged him up in the 1st half and he proceeded to score 10 points in the 3rd quarter, so clearly he wasn't affected. So your argument is based off on one missed lay-up...

AxdemxO · 05-03-2009, 05:34 PM

ONE THING IS FOR SURE....It wont happen this way again. NO WAY will Kidd have another game with 8 TOs. Billups and Carmelo wont be as bad for Denver either, but The Mavs will def. not play this bad again.

Soo just skip in your mind to the next game and be ready. IMO we really have to work on getting Jet and Dirk more shots. Just those 2 guys and whatever is left over the rest can have. If Josh is hott go to him as well. I am not worried although I would have liked us to get the first win, but I think it will be OK....GO MAVS

CadBane · 05-03-2009, 05:35 PM

Melo was 7-10 with 23 points, 5 boards and 4 assists....if that's bad...

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

No, there was no difference. They thugged him up in the 1st half and he proceeded to score 10 points in the 3rd quarter, so clearly he wasn't affected. So your argument is based off on one missed lay-up...

Oh, there was no difference? Thanks for that fact. I thought we were discussing OUR IMPRESSIONS of the game...forgive me.

Seriously though, Dirk watches guys fly by him for layups all the time. His attempt at defending them involves a pansy swipe at the ball before they take it up. Usually, he just moves out of the way and lets them dunk. That sends a message to his team as well as to his opponents. So, no my argument is not based on one missed layup.

If you can't see a difference between "walk up the court and slowly get into position for whatever pick and roll sequence we're about to run" and "run up the court and aggressively set picks and shake defenders and fist pump and jersey pull on the way back up the court after I've iced another defender" Dirk Nowitzki...I can't help you. You can tell by his body language what mindset he's in, and it starts with him and spreads throughout the team. Mark and Bob point this out all the time.

GermanDunk · 05-03-2009, 05:44 PM

Good night guys !

CadBane · 05-03-2009, 05:45 PM

Generally impressions are backed with facts, generally.

Murphy3 · 05-03-2009, 05:49 PM

No, you don't earn respect from officials in games like this. I suppose you can, but for the most part, the officials have a certain idea of how they're going to officiate certain players going into the game. Is it intentional? I don't know. But, they let Denver have the benefit of the doubt when it comes to fouls on both sides of the court. That is what's frustrating.

Hey, officials don't just all of a sudden get impressed when the Mavs start taking the ball to the rim. We saw that today. What did the officials do? They obviously didn't decide to call it both ways. They acted as if the Mavs had no right to take the ball to the rim early in the game. The Mavs weren't rewarded for being fouled when taking the ball to the rim. But, the Nuggets were given trips to the line on far less contact.

You're giving the refs far too much credit if you believe you have to earn it. That isn't how the game should be officiated. And honestly, it's not how it is. Officials tend to be pretty mediocre in this game. That's just how it is.

And if you're Dirk, what do you do? Do you continue to drive without getting rewarded with a trip to the line when you're hammered? If you decide to try and get space for your jumper instead of making a move to the rim because you're not getting calls, it just makes things easier on the defense. They can sell get right up in your face. Why? Because the officials have played a huge role in taking away one aspect of his game. The defense didn't take that away today. The men in stripes did.

DavidDaMonkey · 05-03-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerryGreen17

Oh, there was no difference? Thanks for that fact. I thought we were discussing OUR IMPRESSIONS of the game...forgive me.

Seriously though, Dirk watches guys fly by him for layups all the time. His attempt at defending them involves a pansy swipe at the ball before they take it up. Usually, he just moves out of the way and lets them dunk. That sends a message to his team as well as to his opponents. So, no my argument is not based on one missed layup.

If you can't see a difference between "walk up the court and slowly get into position for whatever pick and roll sequence we're about to run" and "run up the court and aggressively set picks and shake defenders and fist pump and jersey pull on the way back up the court after I've iced another defender" Dirk Nowitzki...I can't help you. You can tell by his body language what mindset he's in, and it starts with him and spreads throughout the team. Mark and Bob point this out all the time.

I am by NO means calling Dirk and elite defender, but I don't think you are giving him enough credit here. Dirk knows that he is this teams primary offensive weapon. If he stands in the circle and lets players run over him on their way to the hoop, he's going to be on the bench with 6 fouls before the first half is over, especially on games like tonight. Sometimes he just has to do what he can, and then dominate on the other end.

I agree that its unfortunate that he's not a better defender and shot blocker, but it's who he is and he knows that very little good can come from getting bowled over and sending the opponent to the stripe.

Murphy3 · 05-03-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerryGreen17

Oh, there was no difference? Thanks for that fact. I thought we were discussing OUR IMPRESSIONS of the game...forgive me.

Seriously though, Dirk watches guys fly by him for layups all the time. His attempt at defending them involves a pansy swipe at the ball before they take it up. Usually, he just moves out of the way and lets them dunk. That sends a message to his team as well as to his opponents. So, no my argument is not based on one missed layup.

If you can't see a difference between "walk up the court and slowly get into position for whatever pick and roll sequence we're about to run" and "run up the court and aggressively set picks and shake defenders and fist pump and jersey pull on the way back up the court after I've iced another defender" Dirk Nowitzki...I can't help you. You can tell by his body language what mindset he's in, and it starts with him and spreads throughout the team. Mark and Bob point this out all the time.

You just don't get the game of basketball...

ghazi · 05-03-2009, 05:52 PM

Apparently the Mavs are like 1-13 or somethin in playoffs sine 2001 when Danny Crawford officiates?

!?

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

You just don't get the game of basketball...

Enlighten me then. Wow, I wanted to come in and vent about a bad performance by the team I love and I get roasted. Nice site ya'll have here.

Murphy3 · 05-03-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I am by NO means calling Dirk and elite defender, but I don't think you are giving him enough credit here. Dirk knows that he is this teams primary offensive weapon. If he stands in the circle and lets players run over him on their way to the hoop, he's going to be on the bench with 6 fouls before the first half is over, especially on games like tonight. Sometimes he just has to do what he can, and then dominate on the other end.

I agree that its unfortunate that he's not a better defender and shot blocker, but it's who he is and he knows that very little good can come from getting bowled over and sending the opponent to the stripe.

Regardless of who's down low, they're far too often put in miserable positions due to others allowing their man to get to the rim. You have a point. We don't want Damp getting into foul trouble..but, we do like to see him be aggressive defensively. So, the Mavs have to live with him getting in foul trouble from time to time because he's contesting shots. If Dirk were to do the same, he'd be on the bench quickly when you consider how much penetration Denver had. And throughout too much of the game, he was about all they had offensively.

Now, I would like to see Dirk contest more shots..he has to be better defensively than he was today. But, he's put in a terrible position. He knows that he's not the greatest defender of the rim in the world to begin with..so, whenever he's the last line of defense, he's likely either to commit a foul or be scored upon. How can this be helped? ..less Dirk as the only big man in the game and allow less penetration. Now, once again, that doesn't excuse some of his lapses in play on that end. He needs to be better. He needs to be better at contesting shots.

Murphy3 · 05-03-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerryGreen17

Enlighten me then. Wow, I wanted to come in and vent about a bad performance by the team I love and I get roasted. Nice site ya'll have here.

read the threads concerning the games and you'll be enlightened.

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 05:57 PM

I think some of you are misunderstanding me. There are folks in here blaming the officiating, and I'm not even going there. The Mavs deserved to lose tonight, and Dirk is not the only one to blame.

My griping about him watching guys fly by for layups is not off base though. Sure, he is the team's primary (understatement) offensive option. But when he has 1 or 2 fouls, he can afford to send a message on an inferior player coming into the paint. Opponents do this to us all the time.

Some of you are so blinded by your Dirk love that you can't even admit to any of his shortcomings at all.

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Generally impressions are backed with facts, generally.

What facts are you presenting that show that Dirk's game does not suffer when players are thuggish and physical with him?

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

read the threads concerning the games and you'll be enlightened.

What a safe and convenient reply. What did I say that is not true? What did I say that shows that I "don't understand the game of basketball" ???

CadBane · 05-03-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerryGreen17

What facts are you presenting that show that Dirk's game does not suffer when players are thuggish and physical with him?

The FACT that he continued to score, and score efficiently, after said thuggish and physical play. See how that works?

Dirkadirkastan · 05-03-2009, 06:02 PM

I just remembered this one play where Dirk boxed out Anthony Carter outside the restricted area directly in front of the basket while going for an offensive rebound. Then Carter proceeds to push and shove Dirk all the way out of bounds before coming up with the rebound. Dirk glares at Crawford, who is standing just a few feet away.

PerryGreen17 · 05-03-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I just remembered this one play where Dirk boxed out Anthony Carter outside the restricted area directly in front of the basket while going for an offensive rebound. Then Carter proceeds to push and shove Dirk all the way out of bounds before coming up with the rebound. Dirk glares at Crawford, who is standing just a few feet away.

My point exactly. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees stuff like this. And he scored efficiently, yes. Where was he down the stretch when things started to get bad?

Sheesh, now I understand why ignore this dude Cadbane is one of the tags on this page.

LonghornDub · 05-03-2009, 06:09 PM

Wow, I didn't realize we out-rebounded them, 37-30. And that's despite the shooting considerably better than us.

Very surprising, not that it means anything at this point.

CadBane · 05-03-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerryGreen17

My point exactly. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees stuff like this. And he scored efficiently, yes. Where was he down the stretch when things started to get bad?

Sheesh, now I understand why ignore this dude Cadbane is one of the tags on this page.

He wasn't getting into touches because Kidd was too busy turning it over every possession. But I guess that's Dirk's fault too.

BGMaverick9 · 05-03-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I just remembered this one play where Dirk boxed out Anthony Carter outside the restricted area directly in front of the basket while going for an offensive rebound. Then Carter proceeds to push and shove Dirk all the way out of bounds before coming up with the rebound. Dirk glares at Crawford, who is standing just a few feet away.

Master of his craft.

As for Dirk's D:
Based on who you ask, he's anywhere from an above average defender to one of the worst in the league. I know his on-ball defense in the post he can show some bright spots and you know he is zoned in on the moment b/c he can still give you that last ditch effort with the swipe/slap at the ball and it leads to a turnover or a restart of the possession out of bounds.

For Pick and Roll defense he usually just shows a real quick flash at the defender and will go back to his man, sometimes the problem he has with that is he swallows up his teammate he's trying to help.

I think Murphy mentioned it in the GDT:
If he's the last line of defense on a fast break or facing an extremely quick or very athletic player...it's game over, but how many people aren't facing the same result in that situation.

Side-note:
I really like Mike Tirico, he was giving plenty of Dirk love today and I thought that was a breath of fresh air based on the National Media. I like him in general, but that was nice for a shout out today. He talked about how he doesn't understand why Dirk isn't appreciated as much as he should be for being an elite player in the league. He said he wasn't sure if it was how the things went down in the Finals or the GS series...but that still doesn't change the fact he is on the short list for elite NBA players.