Postgame: The team formerly known as Mavs vs Pacers - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

j0Shi · 01-12-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

I know these games have been ugly, but without our two best players it's tough to expect much really.

No excuses in this league.
I would at least expect that the remaining players go out there with the intention to show that they have the mentality to win games without Dirk. I would be fine going 2-6 without Dirk if the players would show some heart and play with intensity and toughness. But I just can't see this.

sefant77 · 01-12-2011, 10:10 PM

Bucks are of course useless tonight too, thanks

j0Shi · 01-12-2011, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Bucks are of course useless tonight too, thanks

We should get comfortable to monitor teams like Utah and OKC anyway (besides the fact that every Spurs loss is a good one for sure

). 1st and 2nd is most likely gone.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-12-2011, 10:27 PM

Cad the confrontational....BG might just be a blogger, but he offers up some good stuff for free. He also doesn't try to start crap with lots of users around here.....

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Cad the confrontational....BG might just be a blogger, but he offers up some good stuff for free. He also doesn't try to start crap with lots of users around here.....

So stating an observation is confrontational? UD echoes my thoughts, but we all know how this board works.

Underdog · 01-12-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

So stating an observation is confrontational? UD echoes my thoughts, but we all know how this board works.

But I wasn't confrontational about it.

You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...

Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But I wasn't confrontational about it.

You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...

Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?

Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...

People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?

jthig32 · 01-12-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...

People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?

It could go either way. I didn't think anything of it but your history probably leads people to assume you're being harsh.

Let's just drop it, everyone. Games without Dirk are bad enough without fighting as well.

Underdog · 01-12-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...

People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?

Here's an example of your superior attitude earlier in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Why would one think that? Dirk is an above average defender and the Mavs are a much better defensive team with him on the court.

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.

101.4 On Court

106.7 Off Court

-5.3

One would be better served to know what they're talking about beore posting.

You made a great point, but that last line was just arrogant - no need to talk down to people just because you know something they don't... You took an opportunity to educate someone and turned it into an insult (yet you wonder why people dislike you...)

Can't you disagree without making it personal?

LonghornDub · 01-12-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But I wasn't confrontational about it.

You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...

Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?

Whatever, kid.

Murphy3 · 01-13-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But I wasn't confrontational about it.

You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...

Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?

At least he makes good points... maybe you should try that from time to time.

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

At least he makes good points... maybe you should try that from time to time.

Funny, because Cadbane himself actually pointed out a post of mine earlier in this thread that was right in line with what he was saying...

Maybe you (the guy who does nothing but bitch about the quality of this forum when he isn't posting in the Rangers thread) should make a good point every now and again - you might have been a decent poster on this site at one time, but these days you bring NOTHING.

Kettle, meet pot...

chumdawg · 01-12-2011, 11:01 PM

Well, I guess the wheels have fallen off this thing.

Usually Lurkin · 01-12-2011, 11:02 PM

too late to tank the season for a draft pick?

wilmtalk · 01-13-2011, 01:14 AM

I wouldn't get a Hari Kari mood about this situation. It's not as bad as it seems to some of you. Yes what looked very good now seems not so good. That does not mean that it makes sense to get off the path Dallas is on now.

This team was configuered to complement Kidds strengths and limit his libilitys. This type of team requires ball movement and team flow. Both J Howard and Caron initially did not fit into this concept. remember how frustrated most of use were with Butler early on. Caron became a valuable asset only when he began to play a role within the system rather than a one on one player. All we need to do is replace the role that he played not the player he was before the change. This is what some of you don't seem to understand. You find it hard to grasp that a players value is variable and depends on how well they fit into the team flow. We don't need to have a major scorer. In fact a major scorer would in fact disrupt the flow of the team and negate the strengh of the present roster.

Dirk is a very special player in that his lack of ego allows him to be a scorer and still play within the offensive flow of a team concept. When this team traded for J Kidd out of desperation they over paid. That affected their options for future moves. Because their gamble to win a champianship that year did not pan out they essentially traded away their future obtions. It took years to reconfigure this team to what it developed into before the rash of injurys. Notice how well they played. That was truly a team. To trade for a high profile scorer would in essence be starting over again. And unless it had an immediate enough impact to secure the champianship it would be again robbing the future for a long shot at the present. You never get something for nothing. You could argue the Lakers did. But the piece they got had more value to them than it did for Memphis. And most important they were not trading out of desperation.

A desperation trade at this time would be folly. Don't you think other teams know the situation and are waiting to soak the Mavs. You never trade out of desperation. Does anyone think that the other teams are stupid enough to make trades with the mavs so that they can get back on top? It is to their advantage to wait. They will only do so if the deal is totally in their favor which is what the Mavs don't want to do. Deal out of desperation and you get soaked. Making a major trade to acquire a piece that will not win the champianship imediately while giving up other pieces that are also essential is plain stupidity. We traded away too much in the Kidd deal that left us with too many other holes to fill with what we had left. It took us till now especially Chandlers acquisition to build the right team. Haven't we learned our lesson.

xavier · 01-12-2011, 11:18 PM

speachless....We've gotta get some help and now

Popeye · 01-12-2011, 11:20 PM

These games are exposing problems the Mavs already knew existed, but with Dirk they were able to overcome and still get the wins. We all knew the bench was consistently giving up leads. We all knew JJB had a horrible on/off court impact on the game. We all knew there wasn't a consistent 2nd scorer. Now that they're feeling the pain, i wonder if they'll make any changes.

dude1394 · 01-12-2011, 11:27 PM

I just don't see how harrington does that much for the team..They are pretty desperate for a 3.

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I just don't see how harrington does that much for the team..They are pretty desperate for a 3.

I concur. I'm not huge on Al. He'd bring nice depth to the 4, but he's too slow for the 3. Of course he could always see some minutes at the 4 with Dirk at the 5 (he did play center under Nellie at times, but then again, who didn't?) If a nice trade came along for Al, I'd do it. But obviously I'd prefer a guy like Iggy, Jax, Melo (not gonna happen), Crash.

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I concur. I'm not huge on Al. He'd bring nice depth to the 4, but he's too slow for the 3. Of course he could always see some minutes at the 4 with Dirk at the 5 (he did play center under Nellie at times, but then again, who didn't?) If a nice trade came along for Al, I'd do it. But obviously I'd prefer a guy like Iggy, Jax, Melo (not gonna happen), Crash.

The team was really balanced before caron went out. We had pgs (jjb was serviceable no matter what anyone says)..sgs (steve to start, jet to finish), 3's (caron,shawn), 4's (dirk, shawn), centers...

With caron out it's all mucked up. Shawn can't backup the 3 and 4 anymore and so we have a much less scoring 3 and no depth behind it.

Dirk is obviously huge and with him we go back to near 50 win team, but that is NOT going to get it done. Nor will roddy fix it imo. The mbts have to be looking at some 3s to put the team back in balance.

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

The team was really balanced before caron went out. We had pgs (jjb was serviceable no matter what anyone says)..sgs (steve to start, jet to finish), 3's (caron,shawn), 4's (dirk, shawn), centers...

With caron out it's all mucked up. Shawn can't backup the 3 and 4 anymore and so we have a much less scoring 3 and no depth behind it.

Dirk is obviously huge and with him we go back to near 50 win team, but that is NOT going to get it done. Nor will roddy fix it imo. The mbts have to be looking at some 3s to put the team back in balance.

We definitely need a starting 3 so Marion can slide back to the backup 3/4 where he was so effective earlier in the season, but I still think we need a new backup PG too. I wouldn't have a problem with Barea if we had a starting PG who logged 35+ MPG, but JJB just isn't good enough to play the extended minutes that someone backing up a 37-year-old PG in the NBA needs to play...

The hope was that Roddy could steal some of those minutes, but that idea seems like it's out the window this season.

It's not like we need to go after Harris or Nash, we just need somebody who garners a little more respect from opposing teams than Barea does. The guy is a decent backup PG for a mediocre ball club, but nobody is winning a ring with a Kidd/Barea rotation at the 1...

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We definitely need a starting 3 so Marion can slide back to the backup 3/4 where he was so effective earlier in the season, but I still think we need a new backup PG too. I wouldn't have a problem with Barea if we had a starting PG who logged 35+ MPG, but JJB just isn't good enough to play the extended minutes that someone backing up a 37-year-old PG in the NBA needs to play...

The hope was that Roddy could steal some of those minutes, but that idea seems like it's out the window this season.

It's not like we need to go after Harris or Nash, we just need somebody who garners a little more respect from opposing teams than Barea does. The guy is a decent backup PG for a mediocre ball club, but nobody is winning a ring with a Kidd/Barea rotation at the 1...

I just disagree with you on this one. When rc went to jjb with dirk out there things had settled down tremendously and the bench was beginning to become a strength.. If his 3pt shooting goes up then I'm fine with him when he's not being asked to be the offense. If you are saying that jkiddo isn't good enough to win a ring I might agree with you there, but the backup point?? Nah...

fluid.forty.one · 01-12-2011, 11:29 PM

once a jerk, always a jerk.

I miss Dirk

jcm28 · 01-12-2011, 11:40 PM

How long till iguodala gets here?

bernardos70 · 01-13-2011, 12:36 AM

The team just looks like it is waiting for Dirk to come back, save for a couple of players. You can easily tell who is up to what.

SMC0007 · 01-13-2011, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

The team just looks like it is waiting for Dirk to come back, save for a couple of players. You can easily tell who is up to what.

It's just hard to watch. I know we're not in the business of losing games here but if I'd liked to have seen DJ play a bit more tonight. Especially given Ricks comments after the game, which were something about "with guys down everyones live..." as if there is opportunity to snag some playing time, which was one reason why Alexi started and logged more minutes. He said he has been playing well in practice.

BGMaverick9 · 01-13-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

It's just hard to watch. I know we're not in the business of losing games here but if I'd liked to have seen DJ play a bit more tonight.

DJ has a long way to go, he was a nice surge in that Cleveland game but he's still a project player.

SMC0007 · 01-13-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

DJ has a long way to go, he was a nice surge in that Cleveland game but he's still a project player.

Yes obviously, I'm just saying when things are stagnant toss him out there see if he can provide a spark. If not roll KIdd or JJ back out.

BGMaverick9 · 01-13-2011, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yes obviously, I'm just saying when things are stagnant toss him out there see if he can provide a spark. If not roll KIdd or JJ back out.

Off of the small glimpses I see, it looks like he's still just got a ways to go before he can really be trusted.

jcm28 · 01-13-2011, 12:47 AM

The thought of Dirk's retirement date terrorizes the **** out of me.

fluid.forty.one · 01-13-2011, 01:20 AM

I want to do a case study on CadBane.

Most everyone here thinks you're a jerk. People celebrated when you got banned... yet you wanted to be here so bad, still, that you kept making alt accounts. I just can't wrap my mind around that logic. If there was a party going on and I knew everyone there hated me, I wouldn't keep trying to sneak in.

I mean, it can't be for the "great discussion" because you keep implying that everyone here is really stupid. If we're all idiots, I'm sure you can find a better place to discuss basketball.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 01-13-2011, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I want to do a case study on CadBane.

Most everyone here thinks you're a jerk. People celebrated when you got banned... yet you wanted to be here so bad, still, that you kept making alt accounts. I just can't wrap my mind around that logic. If there was a party going on and I knew everyone there hated me, I wouldn't keep trying to sneak in.

I mean, it can't be for the "great discussion" because you keep implying that everyone here is really stupid. If we're all idiots, I'm sure you can find a better place to discuss basketball.

Apparently I have a case of the Cadbane's. I can seem needlessly condescending because 85% of the posts on here are absolutely ridiculous and make it seem as if that the poster knows absolutely nothing about the game, and has never set foot on a basketball court at any level.

HOWEVER, there are about 5-7 posters on here (yourself included) that actually provide extremely insightful, intelligent, well-worded opinions that I respect and agree with. These are the posters that I come to this forum to read. Unfortunately, in the process of reading your opinions, I can't help but see the absolute idiocy that is posted in between said opinions, that I feel compelled to respond if, for no other reason, than to help keep other not-so-informed members from thinking the absolute bullshit spewing from most poster's keyboards is actually true.

Ergo, I can definitely see where Cadbane is coming from. It's a pain in the ass to ignore hundred's of posters. This just means that the select few of you whose opinions I do value are obviously extremely knowledgeable, if people like me and Cadbane are willing to wade through the trash to ready them.

LonghornDub · 01-13-2011, 02:32 AM

Sad thing is, Cad could be one of the better posters on this board--a board that IMO needs more quality posters--if he would (permanently, not for a couple weeks) stop his pattern of being needlessly condescending.

CadBane · 01-13-2011, 02:35 AM

You all really ought to read the posts I'm making and the posts you're replying with. I know a mob mentality is cool and all, but really, it's fairly clear who's being the jerk(s) here.

jthig32 · 01-13-2011, 09:18 AM

CadBane hasn't done anything in this particular thread to warrant the beating he's taking. Let's just drop it.

Rick41 · 01-13-2011, 10:08 AM

It seems like this board is going to implode like Cowboys Stadium.

Budapest Maverick · 01-13-2011, 10:10 AM

I'm not really an optimistic fan, generally, altough i'm not doom and gloom either. Somewhere in the middle. Right now, i'm not really concerned. I still remember how this team fully healthy is 7-0 against the NBA's best teams this year. I saw something in this team, that made me believe this can be the best Mavs team in team history. That doesn't changed. We all knew we are absolutely s**t without Dirk, didn't we? There is a reason why this guy posted one of the most ridiculous +- numbers in the last few years. He's the MVP, without a shadow of a doubt. I'm not worried, once we get back Dirk and Roddy, we will start winning again, and this will be the most dangerous team we ever had. I think they must trade Caron's though...

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I'm not really an optimistic fan, generally, altough i'm not doom and gloom either. Somewhere in the middle. Right now, i'm not really concerned. I still remember how this team fully healthy is 7-0 against the NBA's best teams this year. I saw something in this team, that made me believe this can be the best Mavs team in team history. That doesn't changed. We all knew we are absolutely s**t without Dirk, didn't we? There is a reason why this guy posted one of the most ridiculous +- numbers in the last few years. He's the MVP, without a shadow of a doubt. I'm not worried, once we get back Dirk and Roddy, we will start winning again, and this will be the most dangerous team we ever had. I think they must trade Caron's though...

No kidding - I don't get the doom and gloom when the problem with this team is simple; no Dirk.

We'll start winning again once he gets back, but it is frustrating to see just how bad this team is without him... It doesn't exactly bode for the playoffs - are these guys going to disappear again when they're depended on to step up and help Dirk?

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No kidding - I don't get the doom and gloom when the problem with this team is simple; no Dirk.

We'll start winning again once he gets back, but it is frustrating to see just how bad this team is without him... It doesn't exactly bode for the playoffs - are these guys going to disappear again when they're depended on to step up and help Dirk?

Very valid and concerning point...Except for Tyson..they just do not seem to be able to compete without the dirkster there.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-13-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No kidding - I don't get the doom and gloom when the problem with this team is simple; no Dirk.

We'll start winning again once he gets back, but it is frustrating to see just how bad this team is without him... It doesn't exactly bode for the playoffs - are these guys going to disappear again when they're depended on to step up and help Dirk?

It's a good question because I'm starting to think Dirk and the Dirkettes isn't going to work. I think Cleveland with lebron is a good example of why it won't. You have these great regular season teams that seem invincible who just seem to collapse and rely too much on their star once the playoffs come around. The Mavs since the finals have essentially been the same way. I think that is why everyone is so high on roddy. He was the one guy last playoffs that said, "screw it, I'm not going to watch this ship sink and do nothing about it."